Turning a noun (or anything else, for that matter) into a verb is called verbing. ;):pirate:
Verbing weirds language.
Backforming is taking an existing word and assuming part of it is a root, when it may not be. I think the best example of this is the verb edit, which is a backformation of editor. The assumption is that an editor is one who edits, when the word editor predated edit.Oh, so my examples weren't good enough, huh? :cry:
"Ad" was both a preposition and a prefix in Latin.Yeah, the English distinction between the two is a little linguicentric.
Oh, so my examples weren't good enough, huh?
Are you sure it's not critiquer?Hyperliteralness strikes again!
It's always bugged me that the German words for who, where, and how don't seem to line up with English like I think they should.Who and wer are cognate; compare the English/German pairs he/er and ye/ihr. The others are not directly related. They come from the same interrogative stem hwa but have different suffixes.
Who is wer; where is wo; and how is wie. How does this make sense?
Who and wer are cognate; compare the English/German pairs he/er and ye/ihr.
I had no idea that tuchus came from tachat (although it makes perfect sense)!I knew that.
:lol:
So would anyone like me to keep doing this? I felt like no one was really reading it, so I stopped.For what it's worth, it was this very thread that prompted me to visit here today. I haven't been here in a while (not because of any problem with the forum or anything; I just haven't been in as forum-y of a mood just lately as I have been in the past), and 10 minutes or so ago I started thinking about what a great thread this was, and how I'd been away long enough for lots of interesting bits of information to have had time to build up.
In 1999 I was a nerd.Me, too. :devil:
Slang for "backside," first attested 1860 in nautical slang, in popular use from 1930; from Amer.Eng. pronunciation of arse (q.v.). The loss of -r- before -s- attested in several other words (e.g. burst/bust, curse/cuss, horse/hoss, barse/bass). Indirect evidence of the change from arse to ass can be traced to 1785 (in euphemistic avoidance of ass "donkey" by polite speakers) and perhaps to Shakespeare, if Nick Bottom transformed into a donkey in "A Midsummer Night's Dream" (1594) is the word-play some think it is.
Q: Why is arse spelled as it is? It is just like gaol and colour in being an alternate spelling in American english? Is that how they spell the synonym for donkey?
A: Arse is your bum. But properly speaking, it refers to an animal's bum (usually a cow or horse).
So when someone says kiss my ass, they are implying their bum is like the rear-end of a cow.
However in Australia, where I am, the 'R' is never pronounced the word sounds more like 'uss'.
An 'ass' is a donkey, it is pronounced with a hard 'A' just like in the US. Don't be tempted, when affecting a British accent for whatever reason, to ask someone to 'take a ride on your arse', it won't mean what you hope it means.
And certainly our language now used varies far from that which was used and spoken when I was born. For we Englishmen have been born under the domination of the Moon, which is never steadfast but ever wavering, waxing one season, and wanes and decreases another season. And that common English that is spoken in one shire varies from another. In so much that in my days happened that certain merchants were in a ship in Thames, for to have sailed over the sea into Zelande (Holland), and for lack of wind they tarried at Forlond, and went to land for to refresh them; And one of them named Sheffield, a merchant, came in to an house and asked for meat; and specially he asked after eggs; And the good wife answered, that she could not speak no French. And the merchant was angry, for he also could speak no French, but would have had eggs, and she understood him not. And then at last another said that he would have eyren: then the good wife said that she understood him well. Lo, what should a man in these days now write, "eggs" or "eyren"? Certainly it is hard to please everyman because of diversity and change of language.So basically the form "egg" and "eggs" sounded like a foreign language to someone from southern England, so the woman assumed the guy must be speaking French. People in that area still used the native English forms "eye" and "eyren."
The US gets its usage from this tradition, while Britain retained the original sense.Huh?
Oh, the worst WORST example of that is forming "mentee" from "mentor".It may not be gramatically correct, but it certainly helps with unsightly bad breath.
By the way, Jon Boy, I've been emailing my parents excerpts from this thread. My mom described your discussion of "can" and "may" as being just what she needed to get her out of the bad mood she'd been in (yes, I come from a family of geeks).Glad to be of service. :D
I come from a family of geeksI am happy for you. :)
In Old English the word was twa, and it was pronounced as it was spelled. Over time the vowel shifted upwards until it finally reached /u/ after the Great Vowel Shift. The /w/ sound then assimilated with the vowel and disappeared, leaving the word pronounced just like to or too. In related words with a different vowel (twin, twain, between, twelve) the /w/ has remained.
Someone told me "avacado" and "guacamole" have an interesting root. Get to work, Jon Boy.Avocado and guacamole both trace back to the Nahuatl word ahuacatl, which means, of course "avocado." Guacamole comes from ahuaca-molli, which means "avocado sauce."
Avocado and guacamole both trace back to the Nahuatl word ahuacatlWhat is Nahuatl?
Nahuatl is often referred to as the Aztec language, or (especially in Spanish) as the Mexican language, because it was the language of the Mexica, i.e. the Aztecs.
Huh. Those are a bit on the strange side. The word for hair comes to mean hide?Not exactly. A word meaning "to strip of hair" came to mean "to strip of hide." So it was a shift in meaning from hair to skin and then to rind or other surface layers of stuff.
As in, 'of sound body and mind', huh?::nonono::
Interesting.
*descends deeper into nerdhood*
In my book, "obvious" and "cool" are by no means mutually exclusive.True 'nuff.
It's not clear where miles comes fromWhich miles are you talking about?
It's turtles all the way down, as they say.They say that?
Well, I certainly do. All the time. I said it at DC-con just last week.QuoteIt's turtles all the way down, as they say.They say that?
which is actually cognate with the English word same, believe it or notWhat does it mean for same and homos to be cognates with each other?
I assume that this is the same homos from which we get homo sapiens and homosexual?No and yes. The homo in homo sapiens comes from a Latin word meaning "man." The homo in homosexual is from the Greek word meaning "same."
Words are cognates when they come from the same root. Both of these words trace all the way back to the Proto-Indo-European word *somo.Quotewhich is actually cognate with the English word same, believe it or notWhat does it mean for same and homos to be cognates with each other?
The homo in homo sapiens comes from a Latin word meaning "man." The homo in homosexual is from the Greek word meaning "same."Woah.
So, from the Greek we've got words like homogeneous, and from Latin we've got words like homunculus, right?Bingo. Homogeneous means "same kind," and homunculus means "little man."
I really should have realized those were different words a long time ago.*shrug* It's not like word origins are always transparent.
I don't understand "private". How does the army rank below non-com = private? Do they get extra privacy? Like, you know, their own homes?The OED says that the Latin word privatus originally means "withdrawn from public life, deprived of office, peculiar to oneself, private." One of the first meanings in English was "not holding public office or official position." Soon after that came the meaning "an ordinary soldier without rank or distinction of any kind."
And how did the spelling of "Colonel" get to be so disconnected from the pronunciation of "Colonel"?It's not so disconnected. In French, the /l/ became an /r/ due to dissimilation; sometimes similar or identical sounds close together end up pushing apart. But the French kept the <l> spelling from the Italian colonnello, which is where they got the word. The English borrowed it from the French, so we got stuck with the French spelling and pronunciation.
The English borrowed it from the French, so we got stuck with the French spelling and pronunciation.This is the cause of so many English bizarrities.
elbow:huh: The last name Katzenellenbogen means "cat's elbow"???
This comes from the Old English elnboga (the modern German equivalent is ellenbogen, so you can see the relation).
shysterWas this a request? I think I must have missed it.
"to look babies," meaning "to stare into someone's eyes."Is this like "when you can see your unborn children in her eyes..."?
It was used to refer to non-Christian church buildings and to the Christian community from about 800 or 900 AD.Serious question: what is a "non-Christian church building"?
It looks like it's been used to refer to non-Christian religious organizations for only a couple hundred years, though.That's the only part that is truly "generic" to me.
Pagan temples, Muslim mosques, Jewish temples or synagoges, and so on.QuoteIt was used to refer to non-Christian church buildings and to the Christian community from about 800 or 900 AD.Serious question: what is a "non-Christian church building"?
But is not someone who is indecisive unready?Possibly, from one point of view, but that doesn't make the words related.
It's like the story I know about the little girl whose name was Ahava and was nicknamed "Havie" -- until she got to nursery, where the teacher was horrified that a religious girl would be called that . . .I'm obviously missing something here.
Actually, we just found out last night that the goat that we're buying in a week is indeed pregnant, so we'll have some new kids in June.I guess the six month rule... was that for individual animals or new types of animals? Did the wooter (or whatever it's called) get lonely?
Sesquicentennial is unrelated. The prefix ultimately comes from semisqui, meaning "half and." But some other sequi words are sequence, second, consequence, obsequious, seque, pursue, ensue, sect, persecute, and execute.What about "Sasquatch?" Maybe that's what OSC will name the sequel of Pastwatch. [/smug snicker]
The wether is very lonely and needs a companion...The wether here is chilly and damp.
Tante, I think you and I are very much older than the others here....No kidding. I found that my SON is getting gray hairs. :angst:
You don't know what BRILLCREAM is?Pfft. He has no sense of American history! I know what Brylcream is!
OMG -- Tante, I think you and I are very much older than the others here....
:(
FG
I read that the word 'dog' just sort of appeared out of thin air a few centuries ago, almost totally replacing the word 'hound' (which has been around, in some form or another, for a really long time) -- what up with that?It's true. The word hound comes from a Proto-Indo-European word, the same one that also evolved into the Latin canis. This means that it goes back at least 5,000 years. The word dog (or forms of it, anyway) appeared about 1,000 years ago and were typically just restricted to breeds of powerful hunting dogs. But by the 1700s the word had displaced hound, leaving it with the more specialized sense it has today. The origin of dog is still very much a mystery, though.
What about scrimshaw? Is that related?The OED says it's of obscure origin; I see no reason to assume that it's related. There's no semantic connection that I can see, and phonologically it's pretty tenuous, too.
Asclepius in his commentary on the Metaphysics says that Aristotle thought that ontological philosophy should be taught after natural philosophy, and that this explains why the work is entitled meta physika ‘After the Physics’.
Ontology? How is that different than onocology?Onocology is the study of "oh, no!"
virile and hystericalAre you requesting etymologies or praising Jon Boy?
A functional disturbance of the nervous system, characterized by such disorders as anæsthesia, hyperæsthesia, convulsions, etc., and usually attended with emotional disturbances and enfeeblement or perversion of the moral and intellectual faculties. (Also called colloquially hysterics.)The "funny" sense of hysterical came from this:
Women being much more liable than men to this disorder, it was originally thought to be due to a disturbance of the uterus and its functions.
Characterized by convulsive emotion or excitement such as marks hysteria; morbidly emotional or excited. (Said freq. of convulsive fits of laughter or weeping.)
*slaps Tante across the face*Why you...
Succinct is the past participle of the Latin succingere, which comes from sub + cingere "to gird." So the verb means "to gird up" and the past participle means "girded up." The sense extended to mean "confined by a girdle" and then "compressed into a small space" and eventually "verbally concise or terse."So when someone verbs "succinct," it's not as wrong as I thought? Huh.
As many of you know, our name, Portokalos, is come from the Greek word "portokali," which mean "orange." So, okay? Here tonight, we have, ah, apple and orange. We all different, but in the end, we all fruit.
Interesting. I was just looking up "orange" on Etymonline.com, and it mentions that modern Greek still distinguishes between bitter oranges (nerantzi) and sweet oranges (portokali). The latter gained its name because it was brought to Europe by Portuguese traders.QuoteAs many of you know, our name, Portokalos, is come from the Greek word "portokali," which mean "orange." So, okay? Here tonight, we have, ah, apple and orange. We all different, but in the end, we all fruit.
[/Big Fat Greek Wedding]
Maybe "tawny"? "Amber"? "Nasturtium"?More likely, people just used "yellow" or "red."
It's worth remembering that acronyms are a 20th century phenomenon and researchers are hard pressed to find any examples before the 1920s.Interesting. I did not know that.
[T]he fact that there are none that can be confirmed before the 1920s is much more convincing.I don't think he quite said that. I believe there are one or two. (Such as "OK.")
It's worth remembering that acronyms are a 20th century phenomenon and researchers are hard pressed to find any examples before the 1920s. The word acronym itself wasn't coined until the 1940s.Hmmm. I'm wondering about W.O.P. here. I think acronyms might be an American phenomenon insofar as this is a place where people come who are learning the language that may mistakenly read something that isn't meant to be.
Contrary to popular belief, it is not an acronym for "With Out Papers" or "Working On Pavement", but was derived from an Italian word "guappo", meaning dude or thug.But if Italian folks get tatoos that say W.O.P. and insist it means "without papers", do you argue with them?
In Hebrew
People
Acronyms have been widely used in Hebrew since at least the Middle Ages. Several important rabbis are referred to with acronyms of their names. For example, Baal Shem Tov is called the Besht, Rav Moshe ben Maimon (Maimonides) is commonly known as Rambam, and Rabbi Moshe ben Nahman (Nahmanides) likewise known as the Ramban.
Text
The usage of Hebrew acronyms extends to liturgical groupings: the word Tanakh is an acronym for Torah (Five Books of Moses), Nevi'im (Book of Prophets), and Ketuvim (Hagiographa).
I always wondered why Maimonides was called Rambam. I had to assume it didn't sound humorous to the people doing it.No, just confusing. His approximate contemporary, with whom he has some fairly distinct philosophical and other disagreements, is Nachmanides. AKA the Ramban. (Emphasis is on different syllables, though.)
Fast forward several hundred years more, and someone decides that iland (as it was spelled in Early Modern English) must've come from the French isle + land, so the assumed silent s was stuck in. And we've been stuck with it ever since.Kinda like the 'b' in debt?
Debilitum is related to debilitare in the same way that weak is related to weaken.No it isn't. Debilis is related to debilitare in the same way that weak is related to weaken. I still have no idea why you think debt is related.
Latin is a language that come from something.I don't understand any of that.
P.S. It is very old and established and effectively dead, but that doesn't mean it is elemental.
Jonathon's at an all-day annual kickoff meeting and will be out of the office. He gets done at 3:00, though.*fails to resist*
In Late Latin missus was used to mean "portion of food" or "course at dinner,"Is it related to this when mess is used to mean "some"?
In Late Latin missus was used to mean "portion of food" or "course at dinner,"Ah, I always knew my missus was good for dessert. :innocent:
Yes, like a mess of kids.Okay, I finally got around to looking it up (sorry—I've been busy the last few evenings). It appears that mess meaning "quantity" is indeed related. The original "portion of food" meaning developed into more specialized senses like "quantity sufficient to make a dish" and then generalized to simply "quantity of something."
*awaits answer*
Sorry for swearing here, but I can't really think of a way of saying this that doesn't involve either swearing or a ridiculous amount of circumlocution. Id the current popular use of "tool" more or less equivalent to the established use of the word "dick"?
someone who tries too hard. a poser. one of those chic's who holds the sign saying "Carson Daly is Hot." the asstard who goes to a rock show because they heard one of the songs on the radio or mtv. or someone who insists on wearing velour sweat suits. Avril Lavigne.
Jane is a tool because she dresses like Avril Lavigne while listening to New Found Glory and Dashboard Confessional just becuase Carson Daly told her to.
a fake person. someone does things to impress people
Someone who claims to be a coffee fanatic but only buys "frappacinos" from starbucks. People who go to TRL. People who listen to Good Charlotte. The members of Good Charlotte
Someone who is easily manipulated by others, because they substitute the judgment and/or approval of others for their own. The others can be admired friends, strangers or potential mates whose approval the tool seeks. Especially in interpersonal situations, the tool will seek approval from the other, but fail to exercise their own judgment about whether the other person is good or right for them. Alternately, the tool will allow public figures, advertising, or other mass media to replace or form their own opinions on any number of subjects -- most evident in fashion and music choices (often fads or heavily marketed products of suspect quality or style). Somewhat less obvious are tools whose opinions on current events are parroted from sources thought by the tool to be reliably correct -- if you don't follow current events, or didn't come across the original source, you might not realize they hadn't actually given their opinion much thought beyond memorizing the highlights. The recurring theme is that the tool avoids using their own judgment, sometimes even failing to acquire an ersatz opinion; instead just seeking approval. The tool is an open field for anyone who would like to use them for their own purposes. When they choose very poorly, it is obvious to most that the tool has been manipulated and was foolish to have allowed it. Usually singular in actual usage, but sometimes phrases like 'tool shed' or 'hardware store' are used to refer to groups seen as clearly lacking common sense.
a) Did you hear that guy? "Brown is the new black"? What a tool.
b) That tool paid for her fancy dinners all over town for *at least two months* and only kissed her like once!
c) staff in a hotel: "Who rented out the Pacific Room this weekend?" "'Real Estate Riches' seminar, free admission." "Ha, that'll be a tool barn."
Also, I may have said this before, but the -dy in lady is the same as dey. In Old English lady was hlæfdige (the g was pronounced like a y here). Hlæf is Old English for loaf, so a lady was a loaf-kneader.lord is from hl?ford from hl?f weard "loaf-guardian".
Yes. It dropped out in French, then the word was borrowed into English, then the English added the b back. The word in Old French was dete, just as you said.Other respelled words include school and hectic from earlier scol and etik. The same thing happened in French: doi became doigt (Latin digitum), pié became pied (Latin pedem), and set became sept (Latin septem). Sometimes they got it wrong: pois "weight" became poids in the belief that the word was derived from pondum, but it is really from *pensum.
derring-do
originally (c.1374) dorrying don, lit. "daring to do," from durring "daring," prp. of M.E. durren "to dare" (see dare) + don, inf. of "to do." Misspelled derrynge do 1500s and mistaken for a noun by Spenser, who took it to mean "manhood and chevalrie;" picked up from him and passed on to Romantic poets as a pseudo-archaism by Sir Walter Scott.
Like, a portmanteau (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/portmanteau) of those two words? Portmanteaus are a relatively modern phenomenon, I think (much like acronyms).Following your link, it appears that portmanteau is portmanteau from the 16th century.
Like, a portmanteau (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/portmanteau) of those two words? Portmanteaus are a relatively modern phenomenon, I think (much like acronyms).What do you mean by "relatively modern"? Lewis Carroll coined a bunch of them, didn't he?
mushroom[/url]
1440 (attested as a surname, John Mussheron, from 1327), from Anglo-Fr. musherun, perhaps from L.L. mussirionem (nom. mussirio), though this may as well be borrowed from Fr. Barnhart says "of uncertain origin." Klein calls it "a word of pre-Latin origin, used in the North of France;" OED says it usually is held to be a derivative of Fr. mousse "moss," and Weekley agrees, saying it is properly "applied to variety which grows in moss." For the final -m he refers to grogram, vellum, venom. Used figuratively for "sudden appearance in full form" from 1590s. The verb meaning "expand or increase rapidly" is first recorded 1903. In ref. to the shape of clouds after explosions, etc., it is attested from 1916, though the actual phrase mushroom cloud does not appear until 1958.
"Ah, le Français," he smiled. "Quelle belle langue. We have such poetry, that we created five beautiful words to mean anglais!":lol:
Do you even HAVE a Facebook, Jake? :PNope. I'm not really a big fan of the social networking sites in general, I think. I've been considering deleting my myspace account, but there are a couple of people I know I'd lose touch with if I were to do so.
Mine currently says: Tracy wishes she were young enough to play ultimate frisbee!
In English, we only have subjunctive for past-tense (or something like tense), correct?Nope. There is also a present-tense subjunctive, as in "It is important that you be there on time." But the subjunctive is only different in the past and present forms of be and in the third-person singular present tense form of anything else (as in "It is important that you go to work").
In English, we only have subjunctive for past-tense (or something like tense), correct?There are four forms that are commonly called the subjunctive in English.
Do you even HAVE a Facebook, Jake? :PTracy wishes she were young enough to play ultimate frisbee! <-- Say in a Queen's English accent.
On Facebook, you give your status in third person, kinda.
Mine currently says: Tracy wishes she were young enough to play ultimate frisbee!
But "to be" is simply not like every other verb. In English or most (all?) other languages. So why should it follow the same rules?I'm not saying it should follow the same rules. I'm just hypothesizing why, 300 years ago, we started using "if I was" interchangeably with "if I were". It seems to be a case of regularization.
"Kugel" actually is etymologically related to "cudgel".And also according to Pokorny (http://starling.rinet.ru/cgi-bin/response.cgi?root=config&morpho=0&basename=%5Cdata%5Cie%5Cpokorny&first=1&text_root=geu&method_root=substring&text_meaning=&method_meaning=substring&text_ger_mean=&method_ger_mean=substring&text_grammar=&method_grammar=substring&text_comments=&method_comments=substring&text_derivative=&method_derivative=substring&text_material=&method_material=substring&text_ref=&method_ref=substring&text_seealso=&method_seealso=substring&text_pages=&method_pages=substring&text_any=&method_any=substring&sort=number), to cove, cub, cud, cog, and chicken.
Yeah, because pointing out facts without decrying them is such a bad thing. ;)That's horrible!
Man, I really need to learn German.Quote"Kugel" actually is etymologically related to "cudgel".And also according to Pokorny (http://starling.rinet.ru/cgi-bin/response.cgi?root=config&morpho=0&basename=%5Cdata%5Cie%5Cpokorny&first=1&text_root=geu&method_root=substring&text_meaning=&method_meaning=substring&text_ger_mean=&method_ger_mean=substring&text_grammar=&method_grammar=substring&text_comments=&method_comments=substring&text_derivative=&method_derivative=substring&text_material=&method_material=substring&text_ref=&method_ref=substring&text_seealso=&method_seealso=substring&text_pages=&method_pages=substring&text_any=&method_any=substring&sort=number), to cove, cub, cud, cog, and chicken.
<—is a horrible personQuoteYeah, because pointing out facts without decrying them is such a bad thing. ;)That's horrible!
Partway down, it gets kind of dirty. I don't read German, either, but I know a dirty word when I see one.QuoteMan, I really need to learn German.Quote"Kugel" actually is etymologically related to "cudgel".And also according to Pokorny (http://starling.rinet.ru/cgi-bin/response.cgi?root=config&morpho=0&basename=%5Cdata%5Cie%5Cpokorny&first=1&text_root=geu&method_root=substring&text_meaning=&method_meaning=substring&text_ger_mean=&method_ger_mean=substring&text_grammar=&method_grammar=substring&text_comments=&method_comments=substring&text_derivative=&method_derivative=substring&text_material=&method_material=substring&text_ref=&method_ref=substring&text_seealso=&method_seealso=substring&text_pages=&method_pages=substring&text_any=&method_any=substring&sort=number), to cove, cub, cud, cog, and chicken.
... and that word.
Partway down, it gets kind of dirty. I don't read German, either, but I know a dirty word when I see one.
Jonathon -- which definition of ruminate came first -- to think about something, or to digest cellulose?Etymonline.com and the OED don't make it very clear—it looks like both senses came into English around the same time, and Etymonline.com says that the Latin verb ruminare meant "to chew the cud, turn over in the mind." So it seems that both senses go back to Latin. But ruminare comes from rumen, which means "throat" or "gullet." So I'd guess that the chewing/digesting sense came first in Latin.
Ah - So that's why it almost sounded right to me!
Tracy wishes she was young enough to play ultimate frisbee! <-- Say in a beer swilling, bass-boat-owning redneck accent.
Ok, so there are certain types of decriptivism I can get behind.Quote<—is a horrible personQuoteYeah, because pointing out facts without decrying them is such a bad thing. ;)That's horrible!
Yup. Use the subjunctive were when the hypothetical in question is not the case. Use was if you're not sure if it's the case or not. Here's an example of the difference, but using love instead:Ah ha. I had never gotten a clear explanation of how to use was and were and why. Thanks.
1. If he loved you, he wouldn't treat you this way.
2. If he loves you, he's sure subtle about it.
Yup. Use the subjunctive were when the hypothetical in question is not the case. Use was if you're not sure if it's the case or not. Here's an example of the difference, but using love instead:
1. If he loved you, he wouldn't treat you this way.
2. If he loves you, he's sure subtle about it.
Apparently this root goes back to a Proto-Indo-European word meaning "full," though some other sources connect it to a different PIE word meaning "fold," which would make a word like double perfectly cognate with the native English twofold.Watkins says it's from *pelh1- (http://www.bartleby.com/61/roots/IE390.html) "to fill", the source of fill and German viel. Who connects it to a different root? The double/twofold connection is cool.
I did a bit more digging in the OED, and it looks like *pel and *ple are simply variants of the same stem. Their entry for double says the root is ple- 'to fill'. Under fele it's the pre-Teutonic *pélu. But under full they give a little more detail: "From the Aryan root *pel-, pol-, -pl, and its extended forms pl?-, pl?-, etc. are derived many words expressing the notion of abounding, filling, etc., as Skr. puru, Gr. ????? (see FELE a.); Gr. ????????? to fill, ?????? full, ?????? multitude, L. (com-, im-, op-, re-, sup-) pl?re to fill, pl?s more."QuoteApparently this root goes back to a Proto-Indo-European word meaning "full," though some other sources connect it to a different PIE word meaning "fold," which would make a word like double perfectly cognate with the native English twofold.Watkins says it's from *pelh1- (http://www.bartleby.com/61/roots/IE390.html) "to fill", the source of fill and German viel. Who connects it to a different root? The double/twofold connection is cool.
"From the Aryan root *pel-, pol-, -plAryan? When's the last time that entry was updated? 1900?
By a clewe of twyn as he hath gon The same weye he may returne a-non ffolwynge alwey the thred as he hath come.
By a clew of twine as he has gone The same way he may return soon following always the thread as he has come.
The OED suggests that it ultimately comes from a word meaning "mass or lump," making it related to the Latin conglomerate.I assume that it's also related to the verb to glom, meaning to group together?
Greek clewno way is that Greek. where did you read that?
Hmmm... The Online Etymology Dictionary says "phonetic variant of clew (q.v.)". What does "q.v." mean?quod vide "which see" in other words, look under the entry for that word. But I wouldn't rely on the Online Etymology Dictionary as your only source.
Decipher this for me, please:So the Proto-Indo-European (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Indo-European_language) form is hypothesized to be *gleu- meaning "gather into a mass, conglomerate", and this became Old English "cleowen" (West Germanic and Proto-Germanic are hypothesized to be the ancestors of modern Germanic languages - in other words, an intermediary between Old English and Proto-Indo-European). The Old English word became a northern English and Scots word "clew" meaning "ball of thread or yarn".
clew
"ball of thread or yarn," northern Eng. and Scot. relic of O.E. cleowen, probably from W.Gmc. *kleuwin, from P.Gmc. *kliwjo-, from I.E. *gleu- "gather into a mass, conglomerate" (related to clay).
I assume that it's also related to the verb to glom, meaning to group together?I thought the meaning of glom was more along the lines of grabbing, not grouping together, and the OED backs that up. It looks like it comes from a Scots word glaum meaning 'to snatch at', but it doesn't give any evidence past that. The earliest citation is from about 1700.
Yeah, one gloms onto things, rather than glomming them.Really? If I were asked to use it in a phrase, I'd probably respond with "glomming stuff together".
So what you're saying is that once something becomes mainstream, it's correct?No, I'm saying once it becomes mainstream, I usually give up arguing against it -- I've already lost. ;)
Also, maybe I'm missing something, but I don't see the irony in using a verb without its accompanying preposition.Hey, I didn't say it -- ask fugu what he meant.
Fair enough. I was going to be very surprised if you equated being mainstream with being correct, because that pretty much violates the whole idea of prescriptivism.QuoteSo what you're saying is that once something becomes mainstream, it's correct?No, I'm saying once it becomes mainstream, I usually give up arguing against it -- I've already lost. ;)
Okay, but does that mean you'd opt for "octopi" over "octopuses" ?No, I wouldn't. I tend to prefer English plurals, but when I go for plurals from the original language, I try to do it correctly. Octopi is sort of a morphological chimera.
Perhaps I should ask the other fora.
The OED says the t in listen is an English invention. It was added due to association with list. list is cognate with German lüstern, and listen is cognate with Middle High German lüsenen.Sorry, I wasn't clear—I was talking about the t in list. It gives the PIE root as *klus and then a Proto-Germanic *hlust-iz. I wasn't sure what that tiz was.
Does anyone know if Hebrew has a causative?Yes, I'm sure that someone does. I am not that someone, however.
Does anyone know if Hebrew has a causative?It certainly does.
In 1924, a wealthy Massachusetts Prohibitionist named Delcevare King sponsored a contest in which he asked participants to coin an appropriate word to mean “a lawless drinker.” King sought a word that would cast violators of Prohibition laws in a light of shame. Two respondents came up independently with the winning word: “scofflaw,” formed by combining the verb “scoff” and the noun “law.” Henry Dale and Kate Butler, also of Massachusetts, split King’s $200 prize. Improbably, despite some early scoffing from language critics, “scofflaw” managed to pick up steam in English and expand to a meaning that went beyond its Prohibition roots, referring to one who violates any law, not just laws related to drinking.That's kinda :cool:
Or is it that ye have neglected us because ye are in the heart of our country and ye are surrounded by security, that ye do not cause food to be sent unto us, and also men to strengthen our armies? (Alma 60:19)and when I read them in Japanese (which has a verb conjugation to create the causative), they seemed so seamless and natural, like they were meant to be written that way, whereas in English they had always sounded stilted.
And it came to pass in the commencement of the thirty and first year of the reign of the judges over the people of Nephi, Moroni immediately caused that provisions should be sent.... And he also caused that an army of six thousand men, with a sufficient quantity of food, should be sent... (Alma 62:12, 13)
And it came to pass after they had taken them, they caused them to enter into a covenant that they would no more take up their weapons of war against the Nephites (Alma 62:16)
Now Moroni caused that Laman and a small number of his men should go forth unto the guards (Alma 55:6)
For the multitude being so great that king Benjamin could not teach them all within the walls of the temple, therefore he caused a tower to be erected (Mosiah 2:7)
I don't actually know, but I've long been under the impression that English's lack of causatives makes it an exception.Is it a lack of causatives or a lack of moods generally? We use modals instead.
though it is part of a historical trend away from verb inflection and towards periphrasis.Could you repeat that in words of a single syllable, please?
There is a pretty strong tradition in teaching Hebrew to english speakers, less so for Arabic.No kidding. The word you're looking for is ulpan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulpan). ;)
Um . . . no. But I could say it in words of two or more.Quotethough it is part of a historical trend away from verb inflection and towards periphrasis.Could you repeat that in words of a single syllable, please?
So instead of using single-word modifications of verbs, we tend to add more words?By the way, I'm a little disappointed that you didn't notice that my first sentence above was entirely monosyllabic.
heehee!QuoteSo instead of using single-word modifications of verbs, we tend to add more words?By the way, I'm a little disappointed that you didn't notice that my first sentence above was entirely monosyllabic.
Monosyllabic is too long a word.Well, it's spelled "monosyllabic", but it's pronounced "uuh".
c.1430, from O.Fr. (danse) Macabré "(dance) of Death" (1376), probably a translation of M.L. (Chorea) Machabæorum, lit. "dance of the Maccabees" (leaders of the Jewish revolt against Syro-Hellenes, see Maccabees). The association with the dance of death seems to be via vivid descriptions of the martyrdom of the Maccabees in the Apocryphal books. The abstracted sense of "gruesome" is first attested 1842 in Fr., 1889 in Eng.Did you already know that? My, you're perceptive.
Wow, who knew: from Old French deschevelé, from des "dis-" plus chevel, cheveu "hair".I knew! In answer to your first question, Tante, pay attention to how it's said: it's really dis + sheveled, not dis + heveled. But I guess whoever came up with the spelling didn't like the back-to-back s's.
For my next trick, I will demonstrate the etymology of "blood hound", so named because they are a vampire's best friend.I read Dracula this week. It was surprisingly good.
Such people are just begging to be buttbuttinated.QuoteWow, who knew: from Old French deschevelé, from des "dis-" plus chevel, cheveu "hair".I knew! In answer to your first question, Tante, pay attention to how it's said: it's really dis + sheveled, not dis + heveled. But I guess whoever came up with the spelling didn't like the back-to-back s's.
I read Dracula this week. It was surprisingly good.You should read Frankenstein. It's surprisingly good as well. One of my favorites, actually.
When did Halloween get upgraded to a season?When they started putting out Halloween candy in stores in late August.
It's different? I thought people just gave out run-of-the-mill candy to the Halloween kids.Halloween-themed packaging.
What's "Halloween Candy"?
Silly Rivka. Haven't you figured out by now that Jesse only asks rhetorical questions?To quote saxon: Sometimes it's fun to respond as though you were serious.
Can a man be a virgin . . . ?Yes. I'm not sure what that has to do with etymology, though.
It can also mean "never been used" like virgin olive oil...Perhaps this isn't the thread to discuss it, but I'm frequently confused by the term "Extra Virgin Olive Oil". What, "virgin" doesn't sufficiently qualify it?
I suspect that they made up the "extra virgin" moniker because it sounds so ultra-special. I know that I'll always shell out extra dollars for the extra virgin olive oil because it sounds so special.My husband likes to jokingly call the other kinds of olive oil "extra-promiscuous."
I don't think there's anything else in the whole supermarket with such a special title.
I have no idea what that means.I have no idea either. But don't spoil your spirit with vermouth.
What does that mean?
The two terms have clearly defined meanings (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olive_oil#Retail_grades_in_IOOC_member_nations).Psh. You think you can come here with your "facts" and your "definitions" and win an argument. Well, not on my watch! :pirate:
The word's origin is Greek trag?idi? (Classical Greek ????????) contracted from trag(o)-aoidi? = "goat song" from tragos = "goat" and aeidein = "to sing".
TragedyThere are other words, but I don't know of any that are very common. I don't know of a good way to look for them, either. The best I could find is tragus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragus_(ear)), the little bump right in front of the opening to the ear canal. Troglodyte comes from different roots and basically means "cave dweller".QuoteThe word's origin is Greek trag?idi? (Classical Greek ????????) contracted from trag(o)-aoidi? = "goat song" from tragos = "goat" and aeidein = "to sing".
Are there any other English words which come from tragos? Possibly troglodyte?
Are "lot" -- as in, a piece of land -- and "allot" related? The equivalent words are in Hebrew, and I realized I was assuming they were in English too. But didn't actually know.Purim on the mind?
Because all the parts are joined together, threads of melody and harmony intertwining?Perhaps.
Oh, that's nice.
from Gk. kharisma "favor, divine gift," from kharizesthai "to show favor to," from charis "grace, beauty, kindness," related to chairein "to rejoice at,"
What about "charisma" ?In case you forgot, dude, etymology by sound is not sound etymology.
How do you "just learn" these things, anyway? Instead of doing crosswords at lunch you just read the OED?Not quite. I was reading an article that talked about the ancient Christian practice of chrism, which is anointing with oil. It also mentioned that it derived from the same root as Christ. I'd never seen the word chrism before, so I looked it up in the OED and then saw the cream connection.
For "evening" what, exactly, is being evened?The relative levels of light and dark, I like to think.
Crux (Latin for "cross", "gallow", or "t-shape") is a term applied by palaeographers, textual critics, bibliographers, and literary scholars to a point of significant corruption in a literary text. More serious than a simple slip of the pen or typographical error, a crux (probably deriving from Latin crux interpretum = "crossroad of interpreters") is difficult or impossible to interpret and resolve. Cruxes occur in a wide range of pre-modern (ancient, medieval, and Renaissance) texts, printed and manuscript.Apparently this then broadened from "difficult point of interpretation" to "crucial point" or "important point".
A. int. Stuff and nonsense! Bosh!
Ha ha ha! Check out the first definition of the interjection fudge from the OED:That's a riot. I may just use "Stuff and nonsense! Bosh!" instead of "Flanken" sometime.QuoteA. int. Stuff and nonsense! Bosh!
As Rivka notes, a troy ounce is one-twelfth of a pound. Apparently it was one-twelfth of a pound in ancient Rome (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Roman_units_of_measurement), too.Not only that, but Trojan condoms come in 12-packs. Which all goes back to ancient Troy. Somehow.
You know what, though, folks? Metric system. Seriously.Amen!
The word drift was originally a noun form of the verb drive meaning "the act of driving". It developed a bunch of other senses and then got verbed around 1600. Drive then got nouned a little later, around 1700. I'm not sure it ever would have occurred to me that the two are related, except that I learned in German today that the verb treiben (which is obviously cognate to drive and means the same thing) can also mean to drift.I never really thought about it, but I guess it falls into the thieve/theft pattern. Bereave/bereft. Give/gift. Sieve/sift. Cleave/cleft. Heave/heft. Leave/left.
When I grow up I want to be an Orthoepist. That's like the Geek of Language Nerds.And you get to be the first one to write on people's casts! In a language that they can't understand!
I may just whistle your avatar, BB.Everybody seems to hate it. I'll probably change it sooner rather than later.
I don't hate it.Oh my feelings went quite unhurt. But I can already see that while I enjoy watching it, it's not the sort of gif that as time passes endears itself to others.
I was really just teasing you. I didn't mean to cause offense; if I did, I apologise. If you like it, keep it.
which originally meant something like "to draw or pull along after one; to drag, haul, trail".Like entrain, hmm?
Here are 10 fun etymologies (http://www.mentalfloss.com/blogs/archives/45013) of the day. I'm not sure about the accuracy, but I particularly like the etymology of serendipity.There's more to the etymology of "robot": Karel ?apek or his brother got the word from Czech robota "drudgery, compulsory service". It's cognate with orphan (http://web.archive.org/web/20071216223545/www.bartleby.com/61/roots/IE363.html).
Bummer.So why is that a bummer?
Does anything else really need to be said on the subject?In a seminar on hermeneutics? Lots.
Playing 'possum?
:sleep:
In a seminar on hermeneutics?
Up since 1:30. Had the great luck to draw first presenter, which means 4 days notice and 1000 pages of reading to condense into a pithy paper.Bah! I've been up since 2, yesterday afternoon.
On the plus side, about 1/3 of my work for this seminar is now done. And I've got four weeks notice for the next 1/3.
Beauty is Truth; Truth Beauty.
And I honestly don't understand at all what it means "G'd is love". I mean, it sounds nice and all, but does it mean something?
the word sack ultimately comes from Hebrew or Phoenician saqI had no idea! I thought it was the other way around!
Which early form are you talking about? I didn't actually show the Old English form of the word or use any IPA.This one. Thanks!
In Old English the word was typically spelled hrycg, and it was pronounced /hr?d?/—that is, just like the modern word, but with a /h/ at the beginning.
The word tremendous derives from a gerund form of the Latin verb tremere, which means "to tremble". This root also gives us (surprise) tremble, tremor, tremulous, and Annie's favorite journalistic synonym for "earthquake", temblor.I love you and I hate you.
Tremble and temblor have a somewhat convoluted history. From the verb tremere an adjective tremulous was formed, and this adjective was reverbed as tremulare, which eventually became tremble in French (and temblar in Spanish) before being borrowed into English.
Can we maybe have a reality TV series called "Erroneous Etymology Smackdown" then?Absolutely!
Also, the dearth, mirth and filth stuff is totally fascinating!Thanks. I am to fascinate.
Olive oil is one of civilization’s oldest foods, dating to at least the 10th century B.C. The word “oil” actually is derived from the same root as “olive,” so the two have historically gone hand-in-hand.
Is that the Hebrew equivalent or something?Precisely. :)
mortgage (n.) 1390, from O.Fr. morgage (13c.), mort gaige, lit. "dead pledge" (replaced in modern Fr. by hypothèque), from mort "dead" + gage "pledge;" so called because the deal dies either when the debt is paid or when payment fails. O.Fr. mort is from V.L. *mortus "dead," from L. mortuus, pp. of mori "to die" (see mortal). The verb is first attested 1467.
Gives new meaning to "Governator".:lol:
Logically it follows then that if we say, "Tom was worsted by Mark," that Tom is the victor this time.Uh . . . it does? I was aware it meant anything. To me "worsted" is a yarn/fabric, and nothing more.
So a diplomat is a paper-folder? ;)Suddenly my chosen vocations seems kinda lame. Curse you Greek language!
First up: the word sycophant, from Robin Waterfield's thoroughly enjoyable book Why Socrates Died (Faber, 2009) which I reviewed for the paper a few weeks back.
To paraphrase Waterfield: one of the vagaries of the classical Athenian judicial system was that it gave people the opportunity to make money out of threatening to take others to court.
These blackmailers were called sycophants. The origin of the word is this. Since the beginning of the 6th century it had been illegal to export food, except olives, from Athenian territory. Sometimes, though, people would try to smuggle figs over the border. If someone denounced you as a fig-smuggler, he was a sykophantes – a "tale-teller about figs". Waterfield: "If it was part of his purpose to ingratiate himself with the authorities, he was close to being a sycophant in the modern sense of the word."
The second cropped up at the weekend when I was reading A Woman Scorn'd, a collection of essays about the Dido myth edited by Michael Burden (Faber, 1998).
The word is "sardonic", and it crops up in the essay Domesticating Dido by James Davidson. He is talking about the ancient Phoenician and Carthaginian habit of child-sacrifice. I quote:
"There is evidence that the victims were supposed to be willing. Not only were mothers forbidden to wail, but ancient traditions on the meaning of 'sardonic smile' claim it derives from the 'smile' worn by those sacrificed by the Phoenician and Carthaginian colonisers of Sardinia. If the victims were prisoners of war or old men, then they tried to smile bravely, and if the victims were children, their grimaces of pain were interpreted as happy grins."
Even if the etymology is fanciful (and a fair number of ancient etymological explanations are) it's still going to make me shiver every time I use the word...
sycophant
The origin of the Gr. word, lit. = ‘fig-shower’, has not been satisfactorily accounted for. The explanation, long current, that it orig. meant an informer against the unlawful exportation of figs cannot be substantiated. It is possible that the term referred orig. to the gesture of ‘making a fig’ or had an obscene implication: cf. FIG n.
The Latin adj. is ad. Gr. Sardinian, which in late Gr. was substituted for sardanios (Homer, etc.; of obscure origin), as the descriptive epithet of bitter or scornful laughter; the motive of the substitution was the notion that the word had primary reference to the effects of eating a ‘Sardinian plant’ (L. herba Sardonia or Sarda), which was said to produce facial convulsions resembling horrible laughter, usually followed by death.
And as for "even if the etymology is fanciful . . . it's still going to make me shiver every time I use the word," well, that's just stupid. Why should a fabrication make him shiver? I could start making up creepy etymologies off the top of my head; would those make him shiver too?That might make for a fun book. "False Etymologies You Hope to God Are Not True."
And as for "even if the etymology is fanciful . . . it's still going to make me shiver every time I use the word," well, that's just stupid. Why should a fabrication make him shiver? I could start making up creepy etymologies off the top of my head; would those make him shiver too?I could try but you'd probably delete my account right quick. :devil:
Why should a fabrication make him shiver?
Do those cost more? The lickless envelopes sure do.
So the forever stamps are actually a kind of investment.I figured it out once. With interest rates as low as they have been lately, they outperform simple savings accounts, but only if the price of stamps steadily increases every year. Which it did for a couple. But not this year.
So the forever stamps are actually a kind of investment.I figured it out once. With interest rates as low as they have been lately, they outperform simple savings accounts, but only if the price of stamps steadily increases every year. Which it did for a couple. But not this year.
And only if you manage not to lose any, which I would somehow not manage.
Ha! Love it. I successfully used 對牛彈琴 talking to my host family and was extremely proud of myself. Of course, I can be legitimately prouder when I manage to utter complete sentences without stopping to think 3 times.I'd forgotten playing the qin for a cow. Don't worry, with practice it goes away...I hope...
This is just weird: I've always heard that Nazi is simply short for Nationalsozialist, but apparently it existed before the Nazi era as a nickname for the name Ignaz (http://www.languagehat.com/archives/003951.php). This would make Nazi cognate with nacho, which comes from a Spanish nickname for Ignacio. Both are forms of the name Ignacius.That's really interesting.
We ended up letting him choose between Channing, Conan, Ralph, Randall, Rudolph and Ulric. We informed him that Conan was by far the most cool.He's also a popular cartoon and comic down in China and Japan. He's a boy genius who does detective work in order to solve crimes.
Mandarin for hundreds of years did not have the word "no" in the sense we use it in English. There *is* the word 不 which can be translated as "not." But it couldn't be used by itself in a reply. You always put a verb or adjective next to it. So if somebody said, "你要去嗎?" (Literally: You are going ?) if you wanted to say no, you would say, "不去" (not going).
If you wanted to flat out say something was incorrect or wrong you had to literally say, "不對." (not correct.) or "錯" (mistake/wrong). But 錯 literally means a mistake, so you can't just say it in lieu of no.
But after being exposed to English grammar, it's common place now for people who don't adhere to strict grammar to say the following,
"我聽説中國人不只是說 ‘不’ 反而在不的旁邊要加個動詞或者形容詞。" (I've heard the Chinese don't just say 'no', in fact you must add a verb or an adjective after no.)
"不不不， 這樣不對。" (No no no, this is incorrect."
Fun neh?*
*sorry I couldn't resisted
Jonathon makes me fall in love with the English language all over again. He's like a linguistic Cupid.
I don't know who decided that 100% immersion for beginners was a good idea.I dunno, if it's a second language, that may be the only way to knock down the tendency to use your mother tongue and to reset everything.
I don't know who decided that 100% immersion for beginners was a good idea.
Pooka: BTW, I disagree that my idiom was too abstract. The Chinese have much more abstract idioms than that.Possibly, but isn't the idea of an idiom that it doesn't mean what it actually says? Otherwise it's an epigram. Granted, idiom isn't a perfect translation for the idea of these little sayings.
Um... French comes from Latin. Or maybe I'm misunderstanding your question. And gumption doesn't sound French to me, it sounds really anglo saxony.Right, it sounds French by virtue of the 'tion' which means it's Latin?
I'm guessin the "tion" looking Latinate is a function of it being anglicized or a mere coincidence in sound. It makes sense that the first use is Scottish.
And it's actually spelled "lokshen" or "lukshen", depending on which dialect of Yiddish one speaks.
By Anglicized, I mean it being a Gaelic or Scots word that just kind of sounds like a standard English spelling pattern so then in English it gets written down as "-tion" even though the "-tion" isn't a morpheme, just a sound.I'm guessin the "tion" looking Latinate is a function of it being anglicized or a mere coincidence in sound. It makes sense that the first use is Scottish.I'm not sure I follow you.
I don't know what that isSomething she made up.
even though the "-tion" isn't a morpheme, just a sound.Hence the lack of gumptionary tales.
By Anglicized, I mean it being a Gaelic or Scots word that just kind of sounds like a standard English spelling pattern so then in English it gets written down as "-tion" even though the "-tion" isn't a morpheme, just a sound.
–verb (used with object)
to transport (a body) by telekinesis.
(in science fiction) to transport (a person or object) across a distance instantaneously
The conveyance of persons (esp. of oneself) or things by psychic power; also in futuristic description, apparently instantaneous transportation of persons, etc., across space by advanced technological means.
Mineral oil actually comes from petroleum.Right. And not from vegetables or animals.
Mineral oil actually comes from petroleum.
Oh, don't tell me you're one of these people! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abiogenic_petroleum_origin
Why would you think "Georges," anyway?That's how it looks like it would be pronounced. :shrug:
Not according to Google. (http://translate.google.com/#de|en|Georges)
I don't have a better place to put this, so I'll put it here:I knew a girl with this surname and she pronounced it fyooks. But I think that was a euphemistic English rendering.
How would you pronounce the surname Fuchs? georges? Fooks? Fooches?
I don't think so. I know a fair number of (unrelated to each other) Fuchs families, and they all say "fyooks".I don't have a better place to put this, so I'll put it here:I knew a girl with this surname and she pronounced it fyooks. But I think that was a euphemistic English rendering.
How would you pronounce the surname Fuchs? georges? Fooks? Fooches?
All with the exact same pronunciation? It seems unlikely. Especially since all agree with this dictionary entry (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Fuchs) (which Jesse already linked to).
My grandfather always used to insist on putting synthetic motor oil (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthetic_oil) in his car, because it was better for the engine. He never drove the car on the highway, or after dark, or over 35 mph, or more than 5 miles from home. With hard usage like that, you'd better use the good stuff!Sorry - I'm back on synthetic oil. This is one of those things I'd never thought about in my life until now. The synthetic motor oil is a lubricant, but can they make synthetic oil that can be burned? That's chemically identical to petroleum? I'm guessing not, from the state of world energy.
Apparently erudite and rude are related. They both come from the Latin root rudis, meaning 'rude' or 'ignorant'. Rude comes pretty directly from this Latin word through Norman French to English. Erudite is a past participle of erudire, which adds the prefix e-/ex-, meaning 'out'. So together it means something like 'brought out of rudeness' or 'brought out of unlearnedness'.
eo, ire, itus means go, which is where were get itinerant.
If you're a computer programmer, is there no value in learning COBOL, FORTRAN, or C?
(I don't know—I'm not a computer programmer.)
So the word crotchety came up in a conversation I was having, and apparently it comes from the word crotchet, which can mean an odd or whimsical notion.
I wasn't able to figure out how it evolved from something that's sorta fun or different to, irritable, grumpy, or eccentric. Or was its usage in the past already less fun than I am conceptualizing? Also, I couldn't find where the word comes from.
Apparently there is exactly one word from the Incan language that made its way to English.
Jerky. The process of rapidly heating and cooling and reheating meat so as to preserve it was pioneered by Incas with llama meat. The conquistadors picked it up and brought it back to Europe and the rest of the Americas.
I'll be writing National Geographic tonight, and letting them know that they have failed me.Apparently there is exactly one word from the Incan language that made its way to English.
Jerky. The process of rapidly heating and cooling and reheating meat so as to preserve it was pioneered by Incas with llama meat. The conquistadors picked it up and brought it back to Europe and the rest of the Americas.
It looks like there's actually a couple dozen (http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=quechua&searchmode=none). I had no idea that jerky was one of them, though.
Curiously, this is similar to how the local Quetchua people preserve llama meat. The result is "jerky," which is one of the few Quetchua words used in English.
How many words are there in the English language?
There is no single sensible answer to this question. It's impossible to count the number of words in a language, because it's so hard to decide what actually counts as a word. Is dog one word, or two (a noun meaning 'a kind of animal', and a verb meaning 'to follow persistently')? If we count it as two, then do we count inflections separately too (e.g. dogs = plural noun, dogs = present tense of the verb). Is dog-tired a word, or just two other words joined together? Is hot dog really two words, since it might also be written as hot-dog or even hotdog?
It's also difficult to decide what counts as 'English'. What about medical and scientific terms? Latin words used in law, French words used in cooking, German words used in academic writing, Japanese words used in martial arts? Do you count Scots dialect? Teenage slang? Abbreviations?
The Second Edition of the 20-volume Oxford English Dictionary contains full entries for 171,476 words in current use, and 47,156 obsolete words. To this may be added around 9,500 derivative words included as subentries. Over half of these words are nouns, about a quarter adjectives, and about a seventh verbs; the rest is made up of exclamations, conjunctions, prepositions, suffixes, etc. And these figures don't take account of entries with senses for different word classes (such as noun and adjective).
This suggests that there are, at the very least, a quarter of a million distinct English words, excluding inflections, and words from technical and regional vocabulary not covered by the OED, or words not yet added to the published dictionary, of which perhaps 20 per cent are no longer in current use. If distinct senses were counted, the total would probably approach three quarters of a million.
Go to this link (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/ancient/ghosts-machu-picchu.html) and click "Transcript." It says:Sounds like I need to send a hit squad after the memory dept in my brain.QuoteCuriously, this is similar to how the local Quetchua people preserve llama meat. The result is "jerky," which is one of the few Quetchua words used in English.
Well I guess that depends on your definition of "few."
When you have more than one variety of jerky (like original, teriaki, and peppered), what's the plural spelling? Jerkys? Jerkies? Jerks? Chrome seems to tolerate all but the first.
Sounds like I need to send a hit squad after the memory dept in my brain.That sounds likely to be counter-productive.
What wouldn't be counterproductive? Why would I ever send a hit squad after my own memory!? ???Sounds like I need to send a hit squad after the memory dept in my brain.That sounds likely to be counter-productive.
The Chinese word for carrot works pretty well. 紅萝卜， or red turnip.
Of course, it's the most tenuous etymology of the bunch.I wonder if I lost my chance to say "Your MOM's the most tenuous etymology of the bunch."
But to a turnip it's related?The Chinese word for carrot works pretty well. 紅萝卜， or red turnip.Red daikon, actually. Which doesn't work well at all because a carrot is not at all related to a daikon.
I don't know, but my point was that the word 萝卜, which is part of the word for carrot, "red-萝卜" is a daikon, not a turnip.It's turnip, actually. Or radish.
hence people mistakenly calling it a turnip or a radish.Or when it comes to Chinese they have a word for turnip and radish and it's "蘿蔔". Go check zhongwen.com if you don't believe me. A daikon is a "白蘿蔔" (White turnip) and a carrot is a "紅蘿蔔." (red turnip).
Or when it comes to Chinese they have a word for turnip and radish and it's "蘿蔔". Go check zhongwen.com if you don't believe me.
Well, that last bit would depend on a number of things ;)I wish everyone would stop nit picking me when I'm totally right ;)
Maybe you're part of the English-speaking world didn't have daikons 20 years ago, but my part of it (New Jersey) did.Your part of the English-speaking world is considerably more culinarily advanced than mine. In mine, most people still don't know what a daikon is, even though they walk past it every time they go to the store.
I live in a world where I translate vegetables for people who buy me luo bo gao on a nearly daily basis. I know what I'm talking about.
I live in a world where I translate vegetables for people who buy me luo bo gao on a nearly daily basis. I know what I'm talking about.
*shrug* But your assertion is "if you showed a radish or a turnip to a Chinese person they would not know what they are", which is neatly contradicted since I live in a part of the world where Chinese-run supermarkets stock both Western vegetables and Chinese vegetables. Plus, you know, there's me ;)
And I only slept four hours and I feel rotten and I don't know what's wrong with me.
And I only slept four hours and I feel rotten and I don't know what's wrong with me.Sounds like you have 失眠病。 :)
And I only slept four hours and I feel rotten and I don't know what's wrong with me.
I think you just answered your own question. ;) Heck, I feel rotten enough after only six hours.
A monger has a pretty limited field of choices for mongering. There's rumors, war and fish. And those are pretty disparate things. In fact, the only thing I can find in common for rumors, war, and fish is that they all stink. And can be monged.
Are there any other things a monger can mong? Why aren't there more things? Why can't I go to a used car monger, for instance?
Fear and hate are mongered. So are whores.I ran into a cheese monger at a grocery store. His selection of cheeses was well mongered and yet he was very eager to part with any of them for the right price.
They all have a form of the prefix syn- (which also appears as sym-, syl-, sys-, and sy-)Which comes from _____, means _____, and is related to ______?
Bol comes from a Greek root meaning 'throw'
A mute? I must be missing something.Is there a Latin word to describe a mute that is different from infans?
Oh, I get it. But it looks like the normal Latin word for mute was mutus, which is where we get our word.Ah! Thanks.
That's a good story. I've told you guys about the time my sister tried to hire an escort for the weekend, right?
Muse/amuse - related?
syzygy
For the original and general sense of this word in the other languages, English had the word bell n.1 in regular use; it is probable, therefore, that clock was introduced either with striking clocks, or at least with bells on which the hours were mechanically struck; it was probably never prevalent in Middle English in the mere sense ‘bell’.
I didn't know what that was before now, but apparently, yes.Well, that's probably because you neither wear nor buy them, and I do both. ;)
Edit: That is, I didn't know that that kind of hat was called a cloche.
That raises the question of where campana came from, and whether Romance languages have anything like our interest in etymology. I'm guessing not, kind of like how they don't have spelling bees.Might I suggest catching the annual National Geographic Bee? It's amazing the quality of children they get on that contest, and it's very enjoyable to watch.
An etymology bee, now there's a kickburro idea.
Etymology
One accepted etymology[1][2] identifies the first component of the word crowbar with the bird-name "crow", perhaps due to the crowbar’s resemblance to the feet or beak of a crow. The first attestation of the word is circa 1400. They also were called simply crows, or iron crows; William Shakespeare used the term iron crow in many places[3], including his play Romeo and Juliet, Act 5, Scene 2:
Get me an iron crow and bring it straight
Unto my cell.
In the 1719 novel by Daniel Defoe, Robinson Crusoe, the protagonist uses crowbars as pickaxes but refers to these tools as iron crows:
As for the pickaxe, I made use of the iron crows, which were proper enough, though heavy;
A second possibility is derived from the use of the crow bar to turn the jack screw on rail bending machines used in small gauage railway operations such as those commonly found in underground mining. The rail bending machine consisted of a jig used to hold the rail while a screw jack, turned with the leverage provided by the crowbar, applied a bending force to the rail. The rail bending jig resembled a crow whan viewed from above.
The only other word I can find that's related to the "stick" cleave is clay.What about cling?
Hmm. The OED and Etymonline.com are not being very helpful. They trace it back to a Proto-Germanic klingg- meaning "to freeze or congeal". It later came to mean "to stick" in a more generic sense. But neither traces the etymology further back than that, so I'm not sure if it's somehow related to clifian. I'd guess it's not related, though, based on the very different endings of the words. I think the f/v and ng are parts of the stems, not endings, which would mean they're different roots.Would clamp also come from there?
But it looks like clench is related to cling, coming from a causative form of the word. Basically, it would've originally meant "to cause to cling".
I think the problem is that you're looking up "chaps", not "chap". Etymonline.com says that it comes from "chapman", an obsolete word meaning "customer". It broadened to mean "fellow" in the early 1700s.Any idea where "chapman" comes from?
I just learned (thanks to Merriam-Webster's word of the day) that doff and don are simply contracted forms of the phrasal verbs do off and do on, respectively.B)
I just learned (thanks to Merriam-Webster's word of the day) that doff and don are simply contracted forms of the phrasal verbs do off and do on, respectively.
Cool, I would have guessed it was a french spelling of a native American word.Actually, me too.
It's a reference to pipe organs (http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/pull-out-all-the-stops.html). Pulling out all the stops increases the volume.Makes sense. As an aside, I'm a bit sad that pipe organs will not be a mainstay of LDS chapels in the future. I believe chapels that have them are given funds to maintain them to a point, but no new chapels have them.
Semolians? How'd that come to mean bucks? And how did bucks come to mean moolah, anyway?IIRC, and this is hearsay, a buck skin was used in frontier country as currency as much if not more than what banks were printing. One skin was a standard unit of currency, so it eventually entered our lexicon.
You got change of a buck?The first joke I ever invented as a kid was, "What do you do with a couple of bucks?" "Let them loose in yard and start racking in the doe."
Sure, what do you want, rabbits and raccoons?
Funny that buck means money and dough means money, but doe doesn't mean money.
Meaning "dollar" is 1856, Amer.Eng., perhaps an abbreviation of buckskin, a unit of trade among Indians and Europeans in frontier days, attested in this sense from 1748.
Not in DS9.But that was a Bajoran installation. They had probably evolved those wrinkles on their noses in response to Romulan Ale.
I wouldn't assume that Romulan ale is brewed on Romulus. After all, you can order Cuba Libre and a New York Strip Steak with French Fries in Kansas City, and they'll make all that stuff right there for you.Not to mention french bread, french dressing, and french toast.
But that was a Bajoran installation.Originally, it was Cardassian.
And to drink?I wouldn't assume that Romulan ale is brewed on Romulus. After all, you can order Cuba Libre and a New York Strip Steak with French Fries in Kansas City, and they'll make all that stuff right there for you.Not to mention french bread, french dressing, and french toast.
I wouldn't assume that Romulan ale is brewed on Romulus. After all, you can order Cuba Libre and a New York Strip Steak with French Fries in Kansas City, and they'll make all that stuff right there for you.Not to mention french bread, french dressing, and french toast.
Is there a episode of Star Trek (TOS) where they travel back in time or go to a planet that has coincidentally evolved prohibition era gangsters that uses the word excessively?Play a game of fizzbin, lady?
We used to say it when I was a kid.Is there an other kind?
Though I'm not actually sure that's good German.
I understood BB's remark to mean that there isn't any kind of German other than good German.Which is silly.
And are any of them not good?I understood BB's remark to mean that there isn't any kind of German other than good German.Which is silly.
There's High German, Swiss German, and several others.
Depends who you're asking. The Swiss tend to have definite opinions on the question, for example.And are any of them not good?I understood BB's remark to mean that there isn't any kind of German other than good German.Which is silly.
There's High German, Swiss German, and several others.
I don't know how much traction you'll get with Rivka by implying that somebody isn't properly following the teachings of Jesus.I wasn't really (edit: trying to) plug that into Jesus. Merely indicating their morality hinges on self preservation.
Merely indicating their morality hinges on self preservation.Most people's does, regardless of how they spin it.
If you really want to know more about the linguistic situation in Switzerland, Taylor, I'd recommend You Are What You Speak (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0553807870/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&tag=galaccactu-20&linkCode=as2&camp=217145&creative=399373&creativeASIN=0553807870). Among other things, it discusses the relationship between Swiss German and standard German and the relationship among German, French, Italian, and Romansch.
I don't think that people who *run in circles* online are actually running in circles.It's metaphorical!
What word is that?
A cursory reading of the Prophet’s statement might lead to the conclusion that his knowledge of Paul’s physical characteristics could have been learned only by means of a vision. However, the Prophet’s description actually resembles depictions of Paul found in familiar apocryphal writings. Thus, while Joseph may have received an actual vision of Paul, he possibly gained his understanding of the ancient Apostle’s appearance from the traditional Christian literature of the day and accepted it as accurate.
O.E. læs (adv.), læssa (adj.), comp. of læs "small;" from P.Gmc. *laisiz "smaller," from PIE base *loiso- "small" (cf. Lith. liesas "thin"). Formerly also "younger," as a translation of L. minor, a sense now obsolete except in James the Less. Used as a comparative of little, but not related to it. Lesser (mid-15c.) is a double comparative, "a barbarous corruption of less, formed by the vulgar from the habit of terminating comparatives in -er." [Johnson].
a seersucker suitDid you just make that up?
You've never heard of a seersucker suit?Nope.
I was looking through a catalogue that came in the mail, and my son saw a seersucker suit and commented that it was a remarkably ugly suit. I told him it was seersucker, and it was supposed to look that way.
He double-taked (took?). "Seersucker? What's a seer and who would want to suck it?"
I have no idea. What is a seer, and why do those suits suck it?
The word came into English from Hindustani (Urdu and Hindi), which originates from the Persian words "shir o shakkar", meaning "milk and sugar", probably from the resemblance of its smooth and rough stripes to the smooth texture of milk and the bumpy texture of sugar.
In fact, the Latin word sal became the French word solde, meaning pay, which is the origin of the word, soldier.
But I am absolutely refusing to make the obvious jokes about the method I am using while continuing to read the book.Liar! Liar! Liaaaaaaaaaaaaar! :p
It (Salt: A World History) claimsQuoteIn fact, the Latin word sal became the French word solde, meaning pay, which is the origin of the word, soldier.
Ugh. I wonder where the heck they got that idea.My precise reaction to roughly 20% of the book so far. Another 30% has been boring.
An allusion is not a joke.QuoteBut I am absolutely refusing to make the obvious jokes about the method I am using while continuing to read the book.Liar! Liar! Liaaaaaaaaaaaaar! :p
Actually, Roman troops were paid in salt.*Yes, the book mentions that as well, and cites it in the etymology of salary.
Actually, Roman troops were paid in salt.* But this travels into that shadowy realm of pre-latinate etymology.
*I realize this sounds like a setup for some kind of joke. But it's true!
Dinner originally meant "breakfast". It comes from the Old French disner, which ultimately comes from the Latin *disjejunare, from dis- 'undo' + jejunare 'to fast'. Over the centuries, the meal shifted later and later in the day until it came to mean (usually) the last meal of the day.
Interestingly, all the names of meals in French come from this same root. At some point the word was reformed as déjeuner, still meaning "to break one's fast", but this again shifted later in the day and became lunch. Then breakfast became petit déjeuner.
You somehow have to explain the deletion of several sounds and a very radical change in meaning.Yeah, exactly.
I have no insight, but all the sources I can find say the same thing, though it's admittedly speculative.
I learned honcho as in 'head honcho' comes from Japanese. It was borrowed by American servicemen and brought back here. There see? We all know some Japanese.
Sure do! It makes complete sense in terms of the literal meaning.I learned honcho as in 'head honcho' comes from Japanese. It was borrowed by American servicemen and brought back here. There see? We all know some Japanese.
Yep. And you would probably enjoy knowing that hancho is written 班長.
I don't think so. I think it's just that forms like pick-a-back very quickly start to sound like piggy-back when said fast enough.Can you think of a better way to carry a pig home?
In a poke.I don't think so. I think it's just that forms like pick-a-back very quickly start to sound like piggy-back when said fast enough.Can you think of a better way to carry a pig home?
Like this (http://www.flickr.com/photos/davaodude/5396111956/)? Full-grown pigs are heavy, and I don't think they'd hang on to your back very well.I bet if they were live, and they weren't full grown. Also, I'm talking about one man carrying a pig. Obviously if you have 2+ 'mans' you change tactics or if you are using a tool.
Can we grease the pig first?Are you allowed to touch pigs?
Or did you think dogs and cats were kosher? ;)
I could keep one as a pet and kiss it good morning every day, if I wanted to.I'm confused. Not so much that I was wrong about pigs, but I was under the impression that there are things practicing Jews won't touch for concern of being ritually unclean. Sorta similar to Muslims who won't touch pigs, or dogs for that matter.
Or did you think dogs and cats were kosher? ;)
You'd think some Jewish entrepreneur could make a living at opening a small kosher restaurant in, say, Beijing. Yeah, Jewish travelers from the States would be few, but in a city that big, maybe there would be enough to keep it open.There are a couple in Hong Kong, which gets more business travelers. But I doubt even Beijing gets a steady enough stream to support a kosher restaurant.
How hard would it be to start up a kosher slaughterhouse in China? Is there a reason nobody's tried it yet, other than the low population of Jewish people there?Not remotely cost-effective.
I was under the impression that there are things practicing Jews won't touch for concern of being ritually unclean. Sorta similar to Muslims who won't touch pigs, or dogs for that matter.Ritually clean and kosher are not the same thing. Jews are not Muslims.
Jews are not Muslims.This, I know. I just figured the concept was not entirely a Muslim one.
I mean, what's to stop you from chewing up a bacon cheeseburger then spitting it out once the flavor is gone?Is this a serious question?
QuoteJews are not Muslims.This, I know. I just figured the concept was not entirely a Muslim one.
I figured if you couldn't eat pork, then perhaps you weren't permitted to handle it either. I mean, what's to stop you from chewing up a bacon cheeseburger then spitting it out once the flavor is gone?
The former does not seem strictly forbidden, the later would be impossible because you'd still be inhaling.QuoteJews are not Muslims.This, I know. I just figured the concept was not entirely a Muslim one.
I figured if you couldn't eat pork, then perhaps you weren't permitted to handle it either. I mean, what's to stop you from chewing up a bacon cheeseburger then spitting it out once the flavor is gone?
The same thing that stops you from swishing alcohol around in your mouth and spitting it out or holding cigarette smoke in your mouth and then blowing it out?
I intended it to be serious, judging by your reaction there is something obvious I am missing between kissing pigs and chewing them.I mean, what's to stop you from chewing up a bacon cheeseburger then spitting it out once the flavor is gone?Is this a serious question?
Kissing a pig is not eating it.And when my son's food is chewed up and spit out all over the floor I don't say he's "eaten dinner".
The former does not seem strictly forbidden, the later would be impossible because you'd still be inhaling.
And kosher-eating travelers can't even rely on the usual standbys of canned tuna and peanut butter!
Annie, it's the internet. Build a webpage, and they will come. ;)
And kosher-eating travelers can't even rely on the usual standbys of canned tuna and peanut butter!
You know, there are a lot of import stores here - I can get an American cake mix, cheddar cheese, Cheerios, or even tuna or peanut butter. I wonder if Jewish travelers would be benefitted of a list of these sorts of stores in Chinese cities. I'd love to put one together for Nanjing, and I'm sure I could find people living in other cities to do so.
Hopefully that would at least ease the burden of having to carry everything you're going to eat in a suitcase.
Chinese food is probably the most popular ethnic food here in the US. What's the most popular ethnic food in China?
right on
An exclamation of enthusiasm or encouragement, as in You've said it really well right on! This interjection has a disputed origin. Some believe it comes from African-American slang (it was recorded in Odum and Johnson's The Negro and His Songs , 1925); others feel it is a shortening of right on target , used by military airmen, or right on cue , theatrical slang for saying the right lines at the right time. [Slang; first half of 1900s] Also see way to go.
But that still doesn't answer my question of what ethnic food is most popular in China.I'd say American hands down.
But that still doesn't answer my question of what ethnic food is most popular in China.
I don't know. It seems the most delicious things we make, they don't like. They think everything is too "sour" and "salty" and so they add a bunch of sugar and mayonnaise.They are liars when it comes to cheese. Pizza does quite well over there. The problem is they just can't bring themselves to like anything *they* didn't already have in China. It's degrading. ;)
How can you reason with an entire nation of people who don't like cheese?
I asked my friend in Taiwan once, "How can you like stinky tofu and not like cheese?"I think the right response would be, "If it's so tasty, why didn't you name it 'tasty tofu?'"
She countered with, "How can you like cheese and not like stinky tofu?"
It ended in a stalemate.
Ah, but tofu is very, very different from stinky tofu.It sure is.
Is it akin to the difference between cream cheese and bleu cheese? I don't know anything about stinky tofu.It's not a bad analogy. :)
If it was good enough for calf transportation in ancient Greece, I don't see why it wouldn't work with pigs below a certain size.Like this (http://www.flickr.com/photos/davaodude/5396111956/)? Full-grown pigs are heavy, and I don't think they'd hang on to your back very well.I bet if they were live, and they weren't full grown. Also, I'm talking about one man carrying a pig. Obviously if you have 2+ 'mans' you change tactics or if you are using a tool.
Now I have a question that won't leave my mind. It's not really an etymology question, but it haunts me:
What is the shelf life of stinky tofu? How can you tell if it's expired? Can a food be perishable if it has already perished? Is it zombie tofu?
And I'm still up for trying. Let me just find a county fair and I'll bring my flip-cam, and a bucket of grease.Do you want to borrow one of my decorative codpieces?
Now I have a question that won't leave my mind. It's not really an etymology question, but it haunts me:
What is the shelf life of stinky tofu? How can you tell if it's expired? Can a food be perishable if it has already perished? Is it zombie tofu?
Anybody? No, really, I'm curious.
Please.And I'm still up for trying. Let me just find a county fair and I'll bring my flip-cam, and a bucket of grease.Do you want to borrow one of my decorative codpieces?
Thanks.
It didn't seem likely, but I was thinking earlier today that with one of the common Hebrew pronunciations*, "omen" actually makes more sense as a spelling than "amen" does. And the train of thought proceeded from there.
*In English, it's "AY-men", but that's not how it's said in Hebrew at all. The way I would say it is "ah-MEHN", but it's also common to say "oh-MEYN".
Could it be that the Hebrew "amen" is related in meaning to the Egyptian sun God "Ahman-Ra?"
Universal is from universe, right? What about university?
True, but it's also simply human nature.Which is often both sad and hilarious.
Pooka: I'm not sure there is one.I think Juliet during the balcony scene with Romeo uses both "anon" and "by and by" with the nurse, when trying to forestall returning to her room.
Also, I just thought of another good example of now–soon evolution: by and by, which was used in the Tyndale and King James Bibles to mean "immediately" or "at once".
a. As an expression of surprise (sometimes only momentary or slight; sometimes involving protest), either in reply to a remark or question, or on perceiving something unexpected.
b. Emphasizing or calling more or less abrupt attention to the statement following (as in the apodosis of a sentence), in opposition to a possible or vaguely apprehended doubt or objection.
By the way, thanks for the pants video. I enjoyed it.:) Sure!
I'm really not sure where that usage came from, but here's what the OED says:Thanks. That still kinda bugs me not knowing historically when it entered into use.Quotea. As an expression of surprise (sometimes only momentary or slight; sometimes involving protest), either in reply to a remark or question, or on perceiving something unexpected.
b. Emphasizing or calling more or less abrupt attention to the statement following (as in the apodosis of a sentence), in opposition to a possible or vaguely apprehended doubt or objection.
Thanks.
It didn't seem likely, but I was thinking earlier today that with one of the common Hebrew pronunciations*, "omen" actually makes more sense as a spelling than "amen" does. And the train of thought proceeded from there.
*In English, it's "AY-men", but that's not how it's said in Hebrew at all. The way I would say it is "ah-MEHN", but it's also common to say "oh-MEYN".
Thanks. That still kinda bugs me not knowing historically when it entered into use.I can answer that part: the early 1500s.
I suspect it's economic. Recent immigrants are likely to be both viewed negatively (interlopers, outsiders, etc.) and to be frugal by necessity.Hence colonial Americans being called Yankees, because they were inclined to yank the indigenous population all over the place. Also the propensity to shackle Africans in chains and beat them for being 'uppity.' It was a common response for a slave to find out they were about to be flogged and exclaim, "You're yanking my chain!"
That's not really where the term Yankees came from, is it?No, but if it was remotely plausible in your mind then that pleases me. :)
If it was remotely plausible, I wouldn't have questioned it. :pThat's not really where the term Yankees came from, is it?No, but if it was remotely plausible in your mind then that pleases me. :)
I should add that it's not clear where it came from, but Janke seems most likely. Other possibilities are a native Algonquin word or pronunciation of English.Interesting, Jonathon.
I suspect it's economic. Recent immigrants are likely to be both viewed negatively (interlopers, outsiders, etc.) and to be frugal by necessity.
Huh. I guess if you didn't know cunicula was Latin for bunny, Bunnicula must not make any sense at all. Or maybe he explains it in the books.
But we're talking about the source of the expressions, no?
And the negative view can be perpetuated long after the need for thrift has been overcome.
"Woad", the blue stuff?
Glass is slightly bluish-green? Don't ask me, I'm not an ancient Roman!:D
French allez-hop, interjection (19th cent. or earlier) < allez , imperative of aller to go (see allons int.) + hop , expressive word, of imitative origin (1652 as houp ; compare Middle French houper , verb (end of the 14th cent.); compare houp-la int.
I think of it as more "up you go!" like when giving a kid a boost. But I didn't remember the basketball definition.Yeah, I'm aware of the basketball definition. But I always assumed it was traditionally used as a phrase you said as you hoisted something up or onto a place, which was why basketball co-opted it. You are hoisting the ball up to somebody.
By the way, here's that corpus of general conference talks (http://corpus.byu.edu/gc/) that I mentioned. It only goes through 2010, but it's still very useful for seeing trends from 1851 until then.Indeed, if I could figure out how to work the thing. BTW we were all wrong, Monson became prophet in 2008.
Belief in the medicinal powers of the bituminous liquid which could be extracted from the bodies of ancient Egyptian mummies app. arose because of its resemblance to pissasphalt (see sense 2a). Later, similar powers were ascribed to mummified flesh itself, which was often used in the form of a powder.
Yes, pissasphalt is apparently a real word, and it means a soft, tarry substance between petroleum and asphalt.Astound your opponents in Scrabble when you first play 'asphalt' and then use it again to make 'pissasphalt' :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ph5-dRuTrDU
Are 'oaf' and 'elf' related words?
Also, the 'yester' in 'yesterday'. Did it find its way into any other English words? I can't think of any.
Are the words "boot" and "foot" related?
I would have known because that was the year we moved.By the way, here's that corpus of general conference talks (http://corpus.byu.edu/gc/) that I mentioned. It only goes through 2010, but it's still very useful for seeing trends from 1851 until then.Indeed, if I could figure out how to work the thing. BTW we were all wrong, Monson became prophet in 2008.
Interesting. Thanks!Are the words "boot" and "foot" related?
Nope. Foot goes back to the Proto-Indo-European *ped or *pod. Boot comes from Medieval Latin by way of French bota or botta, but it's ultimately of uncertain origin. There's really no chance that bota is related to the Latin word for foot either, which was pes.
What can you tell me about the "pot" in "sexpot"?
(probably because trump is a verb, and triumph by itself is not).
Farm sounds like such a plain, earthy word that I never would have guessed that it originated as a French legal term.Agreed.
By the way, I was inspired by Tante's question here (http://www.sakeriver.com/forum/index.php?topic=3440.msg784054#msg784054).I assumed.
The interesting thing, though, is that ferme still means farm in French. So I wonder if they both evolved the meaning independently or if one borrowed it from the other.
It reminds me of my son's joke:I tested this on Tiffany. It annoyed her that she found it amusing at all. :D
What's brown and sticky?
A stick.
Not clicking!
The original root apparently meant something like "pierce" or "prick". This developed into the sense of transfixing or fastening, because you can stick things together by pinning them. (The word stitch is related.) From there it evolved into other ways of making things stay together, as with glue or some other adhesive, hence sticky. I suppose the "twig" sense developed because sticks are things that can pierce or prick, though the Online Etymology Dictionary (http://etymonline.com/index.php?term=stick&allowed_in_frame=0) is a little vague on that.Fascinating. Thanks!
It reminds me of my son's joke:That joke is why I asked the question. :)
What's brown and sticky?
A stick.
Two different Oriental words are included here: (1) the α-forms (like Portuguese tufão , †tufõe ) are < Urdu (Persian and Arabic) ṭūfān a violent storm of wind and rain, a tempest, hurricane, tornado, commonly referred to Arabic ṭāfa , to turn round (nouns of action ṭauf , ṭawafān ), but possibly an adoption of Greek τῡϕῶν typhon n.2; (2) the β- and γ- forms represent Chinese tai fung , common dialect forms (as in Cantonese) of ta big, and fêng wind (hence also German teifun ). The spelling of the β-forms has apparently been influenced by that of the earlier-known Indian word, while that now current is due to association with typhon n.2
Typhon was a figure in Greek mythology, his wife Echidna was "the mother of all monsters". She must be infinitely disappointed with her zoological namesake.
Last night the man said check was backformed from checkmate.
Probably not Czech, though. If I married a central European, however, I might have a Czech mate.
Trying to find the origin of the phrase "Wake up and smell the coffee".
Ann Landers popularized it, but did she invent it?
'Mariachi' comes from the French 'mariage'; when French ruled Mexico they hired local bands for celebrations.
I don't think they had any inominates anymore, by this summer. Though I guess there's that chance they didn't get to any of those. But they also were changing the names of a lot of things. Like the corpora quadrigemina was being called the upper and lower colliculi, on the tectal plate.
I've been through the desert on an inominate horse.
The literal meaning of the various parts of the brain, based on their etymology.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B1Yg_mHCAAAkP0j.jpg:large) (https://twitter.com/mndsci/status/528646284618788864)
German is pretty great that way too. Gloves are hand-shoes. Thimbles are finger-hats. Bats are flying mice.I had the best time ever at that opera.
German is pretty great that way too. Gloves are hand-shoes. Thimbles are finger-hats. Bats are flying mice.I had the best time ever at that opera.
Are socks foot gloves?
I was trying to guess why cattle didn't have a singular form. I knew that it used to have a broader meaning than just cows, but what I didn't know until I looked it up was that it just meant "property," (which makes sense why it wouldn't have a singular) and is basically the same word as chattel. Interesting, huh?
This post (http://bradshawofthefuture.blogspot.com/2015/01/world-and-fergus.html) (by erstwhile poster Goofy) just blew my mind: world comes from the Proto-Germanic wer 'man' + ald 'age'. Thus world originally literally meant 'age of man' and then came to mean 'human existence' or 'life on earth' before broadening to mean 'the known world' and 'the physical world'.
link (http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=world&allowed_in_frame=0)
This post (http://bradshawofthefuture.blogspot.com/2015/01/world-and-fergus.html) (by erstwhile poster Goofy) just blew my mind: world comes from the Proto-Germanic wer 'man' + ald 'age'. Thus world originally literally meant 'age of man' and then came to mean 'human existence' or 'life on earth' before broadening to mean 'the known world' and 'the physical world'.So it wasn't a world until the Elves diminished and went into the West, huh?
link (http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=world&allowed_in_frame=0)
"A substantial entity believed to be that in each person which lives, feels, thinks and wills" [Century Dictionary], Old English sawol "spiritual and emotional part of a person, animate existence; life, living being," from Proto-Germanic *saiwalo (cognates: Old Saxon seola, Old Norse sala, Old Frisian sele, Middle Dutch siele, Dutch ziel, Old High German seula, German Seele, Gothic saiwala), of uncertain origin.via Solitude, sole
Sometimes said to mean originally "coming from or belonging to the sea," because that was supposed to be the stopping place of the soul before birth or after death [Barnhart]; if so, it would be from Proto-Germanic *saiwaz (see sea). Klein explains this as "from the lake," as a dwelling-place of souls in ancient northern Europe.
single, alone, having no husband or wife; one and only, singular, unique," late 14c., from Old French soul "only, alone, just," from Latin solus "alone, only, single, sole; forsaken; extraordinary," of unknown origin, perhaps related to se "oneself," from PIE reflexive root *swo- (see so).so
Old English swa frequently was strengthened by eall, and so also is contained in compounds as, also, such. The -w- was eliminated by contraction from 12c.; compare two, which underwent the same process but retained its spelling. As an "introductory particle" [OED] from 1590s. Used to add emphasis or contradict a negative from 1913.Really interesting in the sense of Buddhists comparing the self to a wave on the sea.
1580s, from Portuguese manga, from Malay mangga, from Tamil mankay, from man "mango tree" + kay "fruit." Mango trees were brought from Timor to British gardens in Jamaica and St. Vincent 1793 by Capt. Bligh on his second voyage.
Why would coach mean an athletic trainer as well as a carriage? And why are the coach seats on the airplane so torturous?
And why are the coach seats on the airplane so torturous?It's just living up to the name. Traveling by public coach in the 1800s was pretty darn torturous, and private coaches were only moderately better.
It is true, however, that the opposite of Little Rock, Arkansas is Boulder, Colorado.
How did the fingers get their names? Middle finger makes sense, and so does ring finger, but what about Index, Pinky, and Thumb?
Okay, the term "medicine finger" has me curious now...
It's called punctuation because you are puncturing the text with little dots.
We were thinking of foods that are named for places, like Lima beans, Jerusalem artichoke, tangerines, Brussels sprouts, Yorkshire pudding, and he challenged me on oregano.
In French, the word for the bird turkey means "chicken from India," which is equally erroneous.It is the same in modern Hebrew.
In French, the word for the bird turkey means "chicken from India," which is equally erroneous.It is the same in modern Hebrew.
Everyone in the world is confused about where turkeys come from!Apparently Russian, Polish, Yiddish (probably because of Russian or Polish), and Turkish all call turkeys Indian chickens.
turkey (n.) Look up turkey at Dictionary.com
1540s, originally "guinea fowl" (Numida meleagris), a bird imported from Madagascar via Turkey, and called guinea fowl when brought by Portuguese traders from West Africa. The larger North American bird (Meleagris gallopavo) was domesticated by the Aztecs, introduced to Spain by conquistadors (1523) and thence to wider Europe. The word turkey first was applied to it in English 1550s because it was identified with or treated as a species of the guinea fowl, and/or because it got to the rest of Europe from Spain by way of North Africa, then under Ottoman (Turkish) rule. Indian corn was originally turkey corn or turkey wheat in English for the same reason.
The Turkish name for it is hindi, literally "Indian," probably influenced by Middle French dinde (c. 1600, contracted from poulet d'inde, literally "chicken from India," Modern French dindon), based on the then-common misconception that the New World was eastern Asia.QuoteAfter the two birds were distinguished and the names differentiated, turkey was erroneously retained for the American bird, instead of the African. From the same imperfect knowledge and confusion Melagris, the ancient name of the African fowl, was unfortunately adopted by Linnæus as the generic name of the American bird. [OED]The New World bird itself reputedly reached England by 1524 at the earliest estimate, though a date in the 1530s seems more likely. The wild turkey, the North American form of the bird, was so called from 1610s. By 1575, turkey was becoming the usual main course at an English Christmas. Meaning "inferior show, failure," is 1927 in show business slang, probably from the bird's reputation for stupidity. Meaning "stupid, ineffectual person" is recorded from 1951. Turkey shoot "something easy" is World War II-era, in reference to marksmanship contests where turkeys were tied behind a log with their heads showing as targets. To talk turkey (1824) supposedly comes from an old tale of a Yankee attempting to swindle an Indian in dividing up a turkey and a buzzard as food.
Unlike blueberries, which get their name from the color, oranges aren't named for their color. The color is named after the fruit. Before they were widely enough propagated that people were familiar with what they looked like, there just wasn't a good name for that color. They called it "yellow-red" or, later, "saffron".This is why we call them redheads -- the term was coined before the word 'orange' entered the language.
The Dutch Protestants bred orange carrots to honor the House of Orange, which became crazy popular, because they were such patriotic vegetables.There is actually very little evidence to support this popular claim. It's at least as likely that the orange ones were bred because they are sweeter and less starchy.
It's only in certain varieties of Spanish (Puerto Rican was the only one we've come across) that it has the meaning of "small store" that we use it for in English.Which explains why it's commonly used that way in NY, and much less so here in SoCal.
Today in totally transparent etymologies that I somehow failed to see: Offal simply comes from off + fall, apparently from the notion of it being the stuff that falls off the butcher's block (http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=offal&allowed_in_frame=0).
Today in totally transparent etymologies that I somehow failed to see: Offal simply comes from off + fall, apparently from the notion of it being the stuff that falls off the butcher's block (http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=offal&allowed_in_frame=0).
Under "MONOSYLLABLE" Farmer lists 552 synonyms from English slang and literature before launching into another 5 pages of them in French, German, Italian, Spanish, and Portuguese. [A sampling: Botany Bay, chum, coffee-shop, cookie, End of the Sentimental Journey, fancy bit, Fumbler's Hall, funniment, goatmilker, heaven, hell, Itching Jenny, jelly-bag, Low Countries, nature's tufted treasure, penwiper, prick-skinner, seminary, tickle-toby, undeniable, wonderful lamp, and aphrodisaical tennis court, and, in a separate listing, Naggie. Dutch cognate de kont means "a bottom, an arse," but Dutch also has attractive poetic slang ways of expressing this part, such as liefdesgrot, literally "cave of love," and vleesroos "rose of flesh."
Then again, of all the creatures that can fly, why did "fly" get that name.That one actually makes sense to me, as flies are ubiquitous in a way bees, wasps, butterflies, etc. are not.
the first element is uncertain, but is generally supposed to be French tour or English turn n., referring to its rounded shape.
An editor from Merriam-Webster tweeted (https://twitter.com/BookishLex/status/831967280825241601) that mercy and mercenary are related—they both come from the Latin merces, 'fee, wages, price paid'.How that gets to mercenary is clear. But how do you get from "price paid" to mercy?
"Tumbler" means drinking glass, because the original design didn't have a flat base, so if you set it down before you finished your drink it would tumble over and spill everything.This is just a guess, but perhaps it was the bar owners who were buying such tumblers. If you can't put your drink down, it's a lot more difficult to "nurse" your drink, thus encouraging people to drink more.
What a stupid design! What were they thinking?
I learned that "Episcopal" comes from "having the characteristics of bishops", which strikes me as hilarious, because where I used to live there was an Episcopal church that was built diagonally on a corner lot.
www.etymonline.com/index.php?allowed_in_frame=0&search=Episcopal
I learned that "Episcopal" comes from "having the characteristics of bishops", which strikes me as hilarious, because where I used to live there was an Episcopal church that was built diagonally on a corner lot.
www.etymonline.com/index.php?allowed_in_frame=0&search=Episcopal
Used to introduce a remark or statement, sometimes implying that the speaker or writer accepts a situation, etc., already expressed or indicated, or desires to qualify this in some way, but frequently used only as a preliminary or resumptive word.
Well functions as a discourse marker, often expressing an emotion such as surprise, indignation, resignation, or relief, but also used when pausing to consider one's next words, to introduce an explanation or amplification, to mark the resumption or end of a conversation, etc., or to indicate that one is waiting for an answer or explanation from someone.
well, that at least makes me feel better about preferring to use it to mean twice a month, as my coworker was rather annoyingly superior about her insistence that semi-monthly was the only right option. She had this "oh, you're always so contrary and I'll humor you even though I know the correct answer" vibe that bugged the heck out of me.
I guess I've gotten lucky? Or always clarified when it mattered because I was aware there was confusion. But how useless! What is the point to it if one always has to clarify it? And when we already have "semi" when we want to say twice a whatever?
In Middle English and as late as 17c., it was a generic term for all fruit other than berries but including nuts (such as Old English fingeræppla "dates," literally "finger-apples;" Middle English appel of paradis "banana," c. 1400). Hence its grafting onto the unnamed "fruit of the forbidden tree" in Genesis. Cucumbers, in one Old English work, are eorþæppla, literally "earth-apples" (compare French pomme de terre "potato," literally "earth-apple;" see also melon). French pomme is from Latin pomum "apple; fruit" (see Pomona).
As far as the forbidden fruit is concerned, again, the Quran does not mention it explicitly, but according to traditional commentaries it was not an apple, as believed by Christians and Jews, but wheat. ["The Heart of Islam: Enduring Values for Humanity," Seyyed Hossein Nasr, 2002]
link (https://www.etymonline.com/word/apple)
Now I wonder what percentage of Christians and Jews would say that Adam and Eve ate a literal apple.Sadly, probably a large percentage. But I would say that is more an indication of lack of knowledge than of the religion's official stance. Certainly for Judaism.
It would fit with God's rejection of Cain's sacrificeWhich was about attitude, not general category. (He gave whatever, rather than selecting the best.)
and the general bias against farming and preference for nomadic herding that you see in the Hebrew scriptures.Wait, WHAT? No. Just no. Go back and read Ruth again. Having to be a nomadic shepherd for various practical reasons is not a rejection of farming, and more than having to be moneylenders in the middle ages was.
I can't speak for other Christians, but I would say that in Mormon thought, the forbidden fruit wasn't evil either. Eating it was not a sin but a transgression—that is, it was wrong because God told them not to do it, not because it was inherently evil.Fair enough.
process that gave us pairs like burst/bust, curse/cuss, horse/hoss, barse/bass, and arse/ass.
People like knowing obscure words for random things, like the fact that the plastic tip on a shoelace is called an aglet, and they like sharing those words even if they don't really use them.Very true.
Cool. I'd wondered about it, but never thought to look it up.Neither did I. It showed up in my newsfeed.
I was thinking about what a weird word "cantaloupe" is, and thinking about the etymology, which seems like it would mean "wolf song", so I looked it up, and it kind of does.:huh:
also cantaloup, small, round type of melon, 1739, from French, from Italian, from Cantalupo, name of a former Papal summer estate near Rome, where the melons first were grown in Europe after their introduction (supposedly from Armenia). The place name seems to be "singing wolf" and might refer to a spot where wolves gathered, but the name or the story might be folk etymology.]also cantaloup, small, round type of melon, 1739, from French, from Italian, from Cantalupo, name of a former Papal summer estate near Rome, where the melons first were grown in Europe after their introduction (supposedly from Armenia). The place name seems to be "singing wolf" and might refer to a spot where wolves gathered, but the name or the story might be folk etymology.link (https://www.etymonline.com/word/cantaloupe#etymonline_v_678)
Huh. I had no idea that orca was derived from orc.Wow!
On old manuscripts, "descent" was indicated by a forked sign resembling the branching lines of a genealogical chart; the sign also happened to look like a bird's footprint. On this theory the form was influenced in Middle English by association with degree. This explanation dates back to Skeat and Sweet in the late 1800s. The word obviously is of French origin, and pied de gru is the only Old French term answering to the earliest English forms, but this sense is not attested in Old French (Modern French pédigree is from English). Perhaps it was a fanciful extension developed in Anglo-French. Other explanations are considered untenable.
The original term is of doubtful meaning. Pliny explains that the word denotes a coffin of limestone from the Troad (the region around Troy) which had the property of dissolving the body quickly (Greek sarx, “flesh,” and phagein, “to eat”), but this explanation is questionable; religious and folkloristic ideas may have been involved in calling a coffin a body eater.
It would explain the gourmet tendencies.:D The hints were there from the beginning-- a trail of tiny breadcrumbs!
Side note: I love that that's the name of the species. :DRight? Lower Decks was a brilliant show.
Exactly.It would explain the gourmet tendencies.:D The hints were there from the beginning-- a trail of tiny breadcrumbs!
It so was.Side note: I love that that's the name of the species. :DRight? Lower Decks was a brilliant show.