The random etymology of the day

[Jonathon]

You're welcome!

By the way, thanks for the pants video. I enjoyed it.

[BlackBlade]

But what of Why? Why aren't you at my beck and call Jonathon?

[Jonathon]

I'm really not sure where that usage came from, but here's what the OED says:

a. As an expression of surprise (sometimes only momentary or slight; sometimes involving protest), either in reply to a remark or question, or on perceiving something unexpected.

b. Emphasizing or calling more or less abrupt attention to the statement following (as in the apodosis of a sentence), in opposition to a possible or vaguely apprehended doubt or objection.

[Noemon]

By the way, thanks for the pants video. I enjoyed it.

Sure!

[Annie Subjunctive]

I just realized that the old-timey word coney, for rabbit, is similar to the Spanish conejo, but not at all like the French word. Is there an older Latin thing going on there?

[Jonathon]

Yup! Coney comes from the Anglo-French conis, which, along with conejo, comes from the Latin cuniculus. I don't know where the French lapin comes from or which came first; I'd guess that it's a pretty straightforward case of lexical replacement. (Warning: there's a pretty vulgar swear word in the Etymonline entry. You can stop reading when you see the mention of British slang.)

[BlackBlade]

I'm really not sure where that usage came from, but here's what the OED says:

a. As an expression of surprise (sometimes only momentary or slight; sometimes involving protest), either in reply to a remark or question, or on perceiving something unexpected.

b. Emphasizing or calling more or less abrupt attention to the statement following (as in the apodosis of a sentence), in opposition to a possible or vaguely apprehended doubt or objection.

Thanks. That still kinda bugs me not knowing historically when it entered into use.

I just learned owe and ought are actually the same word historically just in different tense, ought being the past tense of owe. Interesting!

[Ela]

Thanks.

It didn't seem likely, but I was thinking earlier today that with one of the common Hebrew pronunciations*, "omen" actually makes more sense as a spelling than "amen" does. And the train of thought proceeded from there.

*In English, it's "AY-men", but that's not how it's said in Hebrew at all. The way I would say it is "ah-MEHN", but it's also common to say "oh-MEYN".

"Oh-MEYN" is a Yiddish pronunciation as far as I know.

[Ela]

New question:

I was talking with some friends last night and we got to wondering what the origin is of the expression "Dutch treat."

[Tante Shvester]

From what I've heard when I was growing up in New York is that after the English came to New York and displaced the Dutch, there was a kind of anti-Dutch bigotry, evidence of which lingers in expressions like "Dutch treat" (which is really no treat at all, since you're paying for your own meal) and "Dutch courage" (which is really not bravery at all, but rather the loss of inhibition you get from drinking).

I have no idea, though, about what that says about the jump rope game Double Dutch.

[Jonathon]

Thanks. That still kinda bugs me not knowing historically when it entered into use.

I can answer that part: the early 1500s.

[Jonathon]

From what I can tell, Esther is right. The OED lists a lot of compounds with "Dutch" and precedes the list with "Characteristic of or attributed to the Dutch; often with an opprobrious or derisive application, largely due to the rivalry and enmity between the English and Dutch in the 17th c."

[Ela]

Sounds plausible. One of the women in the conversation last night, who has Dutch forebears, joked that it probably came from the Dutch being cheap.

(I thought that was the Scotch. My aunt's Scotch mother-in-law used to tell her son, "Don't be so Scotch-y" (with appropriate Scotch accent) when he was being cheap.)

[Jonathon]

Hmm. I wonder if some cultures or nationalities really are inclined to be cheap or if it's just a stereotype. English speakers have negative terms for the frugality of Scots, Welsh, Dutch, and Jews (and probably others that I'm forgetting). Are they really more frugal or cheap, or is it just a natural tendency to highlight the negative traits of other groups?

[Ela]

I would guess it's mostly stereotype.

[rivka]

I suspect it's economic. Recent immigrants are likely to be both viewed negatively (interlopers, outsiders, etc.) and to be frugal by necessity.

[Jonathon]

Good point.

[BlackBlade]

I suspect it's economic. Recent immigrants are likely to be both viewed negatively (interlopers, outsiders, etc.) and to be frugal by necessity.

Hence colonial Americans being called Yankees, because they were inclined to yank the indigenous population all over the place. Also the propensity to shackle Africans in chains and beat them for being 'uppity.' It was a common response for a slave to find out they were about to be flogged and exclaim, "You're yanking my chain!"

[Ela]

That's not really where the term Yankees came from, is it?

[Jonathon]

No, it probably comes from the Dutch Janke, a diminutive form of the name Jan.

[BlackBlade]

That's not really where the term Yankees came from, is it?

No, but if it was remotely plausible in your mind then that pleases me.

[Jonathon]

I should add that it's not clear where it came from, but Janke seems most likely. Other possibilities are a native Algonquin word or pronunciation of English.

[Ela]

That's not really where the term Yankees came from, is it?

No, but if it was remotely plausible in your mind then that pleases me.

If it was remotely plausible, I wouldn't have questioned it. 

I should add that it's not clear where it came from, but Janke seems most likely. Other possibilities are a native Algonquin word or pronunciation of English.

Interesting, Jonathon.

[Ela]

I suspect it's economic. Recent immigrants are likely to be both viewed negatively (interlopers, outsiders, etc.) and to be frugal by necessity.

I don't know that's strictly true. The girls I knew at a college in the South were too young to have experienced recent Jewish immigrants. In fact, I suspect some of them never met a Jew till they met me. But they used the expression "jewed out of money" and referred to the local overpriced convenience store as "the jiffy jew."

[rivka]

But we're talking about the source of the expressions, no?

And the negative view can be perpetuated long after the need for thrift has been overcome.