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Offline Jonathon

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« on: October 17, 2005, 12:24:28 AM »
Go over to the English section and read my brief but (hopefully) informative rant about historical linguistics!
« Last Edit: October 17, 2005, 12:25:42 AM by Jon Boy »
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Offline rivka

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« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2005, 01:21:59 AM »
:cool:  
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Offline Teshi

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« Reply #2 on: October 17, 2005, 07:02:37 AM »
Quote
*penkwe

I'm so happy I know what the asterix means now :).

Offline Mr. Anderson

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« Reply #3 on: October 17, 2005, 09:25:04 AM »
I never was very good at Rubics Cubes.
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Offline Porter

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« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2005, 09:27:49 AM »
I was looking forward to being taught some words that seem to be related but aren't. :(
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Offline Brinestone

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« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2005, 09:27:50 AM »
Teshi, what does it mean?
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Offline Teshi

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« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2005, 10:27:54 AM »
It means... *ahem*

Quote
A word whose existance has never been confirmed (because no one ever wrote it down, or, if they did we have no record of it now) but whose existance has been inferred.

However, it also seems to be used with words which could logically exist, but never did. Like *digged as in "I *digged a hole." At least, I've seen it used in that way although the above definition is the one I remember.

So "penkwe" presumably existed, and people assume that it did, but there is no proof.

:):)
« Last Edit: October 17, 2005, 10:28:42 AM by Teshi »

Offline Porter

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« Reply #7 on: October 17, 2005, 10:35:53 AM »
Where are you quoting from?
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Offline Teshi

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« Reply #8 on: October 17, 2005, 10:37:16 AM »
Er, partially from me and partially from my linguistics text book-thingy EDIT: and also from my professor.

Why, am I wrong :( ?
« Last Edit: October 17, 2005, 10:38:02 AM by Teshi »

Offline Jonathon

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« Reply #9 on: October 17, 2005, 10:37:59 AM »
Digged used to be the standard form; it shows up in the Bible.


Porter: I can provide some examples. Just give me a little while.
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Offline Teshi

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« Reply #10 on: October 17, 2005, 10:39:49 AM »
You give examples, then. I don't know that much. I was just trying to think of a quick example...

Offline Jonathon

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« Reply #11 on: October 17, 2005, 10:46:33 AM »
How about *drog as a past tense of drag? :tongue:  
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Offline Teshi

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« Reply #12 on: October 17, 2005, 10:48:52 AM »
Nargh. That was the one I was trying to remember when I came up with "digged."

:tongue:  :whistling:  

Offline Jonathon

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« Reply #13 on: October 17, 2005, 07:11:45 PM »
For Porter. The few pages following that are chock full of really bad historical linguistics.
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Offline Porter

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« Reply #14 on: October 17, 2005, 07:32:03 PM »
Are you sure you gave me the right link?

Quote
The worship of the Indo-European and Hebrew gods as volcanic mountains may explain the great importance of the fire rituals amon both the Brahmins and the Levites.  It may also explain the name o fYahweh, so long a puzzle to Bible scholars...
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Offline Jonathon

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« Reply #15 on: October 17, 2005, 07:33:57 PM »
Yes. Starting with the third paragraph down ("In Latin . . ."), it talks a lot about etymology.
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Offline Mr. Anderson

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« Reply #16 on: October 17, 2005, 07:39:26 PM »
It's telling us to sign in or sign up.
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Offline Jonathon

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« Reply #17 on: October 17, 2005, 07:49:00 PM »
All you need is an Amazon account. But if that doesn't work, here's another gem:
Quote
Another curious connection is the actual name of the Levites. The Hebrew name for these priests, Lewi and Levi are much the same word. It is here that Ms. Stone makes a rather interesting series of relationships that may have significance later. She points out that, in Latin we have lavo which means to wash in a stream which flows, while lavit means to pour. In Hittite, lahhu also means to pour. In French we have laver, to wash and in German we have lawine, meaning avalanche and the English word lavish. Levo in Latin means lift and is especially associated with the sunrise. In Sanskrit lauha is "glowing redness," while lightning is lohla. In German we have lohe, meaning blaze or flame, while in Danish lue means to go up in flames. In English, the word lava, the German lave, and the French lave, each meaning the blazing molten mass that pours from a volcanic mountain, may give us the key to the two concepts in unity: that which is light and flaming, while still pouring almost as a liquid at the same time. Sons of Light and Fire. The mountain top Weather God who issues from DEEP within the Earth!

At Qumran, where was found the oldest extant Hebrew texts, there was a scroll discovered that was completely new to Biblical scholars entitled The Scroll of the War of the Sons of Light Against the Sons of Darkness. This text consists of the plans for a battle that is about to be fought. This scroll reveals that the Levites were still in control at that time, and may be still in control at the present!

The name of the Hebrews as Yehudi, or Judah, is rather close to the Sanskrit word for warrior: Yuddha.

As Ms. Stone points out, if these speculations, supported by so much circumstantial evidence, hold up to further investigation, then what are we to make of the Aryan versus Jew stance of WWII? It becomes more than a tragedy, it becomes utterly ironic that the monster of monotheism created by the Hebrews turned around to devour them. On the other hand, maybe it was intentional. It is even beginning to look like the Hebrews, as an ethnic group, were actually created for "use" by the members of the Control System. And we have to keep in mind also, that the same Control System seems to be behind the development of Kaballah and the many related occult/mystical practices, in which case we have to ask ourselves why?

But, before we move one, let us make one last observation: It was sometime before and directly after WWI that nasili was being accepted as the real name of the Hittite language, and Nesa or Nasa, their first capital. The original name of the Hittite invaders may have been Nesians or Nasians. Nuzi was the capital of the Indo-European nation of Mitanni. And this brings up another connection between the Hittites and the Hebrews, the use of the word nasi for prince from which we derive nazarene. We can't help but observe here how close to these words is the term Nazi.
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Offline pooka

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« Reply #18 on: October 17, 2005, 10:21:49 PM »
I'm amazed Ms. Stone didn't try to link Hittite with Hitler.
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Offline Teshi

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« Reply #19 on: October 18, 2005, 08:32:28 AM »
Yeah, that would seem to the natural conclusion.  

Offline Porter

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« Reply #20 on: October 18, 2005, 08:37:01 AM »
I'm confused, JB -- which of the connections she made are legit, and which aren't?
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Offline Jonathon

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« Reply #21 on: October 18, 2005, 11:50:21 AM »
Hittite is an Indo-European language, so it's probably safe to assume that its word for "pour" is related to the Latin word for "pour." The French word obviously comes from Latin. These are legitimate.

But then she suddenly jumps to the German word for "avalanche"—why? There might be a semantic connection, but it's not explained. Where did the German word come from? Maybe it's borrowed from French, or maybe it has an entirely different and unrelated origin. We don't know.

The English "lavish" doesn't add much—it's borrowed from French and descends from the French and Latin words already listed. Legitimate, but not particularly meaningful.

Then suddenly she jumps to a seemingly unconnected Latin word meaning "to lift." There's no evidence presented to back up the claim that it's has anything to do with the sunrise, but she appears to use that to show that it's connected to other words referring to things like lightning and lava. Which meaning came first, though? If the word means "to lift," then the sunrise connotation probably came later. This would indicate that it's an unrelated word that's associated with something glowing and fiery, not a glowing, fiery word that came to mean "to lift."

Then there's some more jumping around and random listing or words that start with the letter l, but if there's any connection of meaning, it's pretty tenuous, and it's never explained. But the whole argument seems to hinge on the word lava, and that's where any semblance of legitimacy completely breaks down.

You see, the word lava is only a few hundred years old, and it comes from the Italian word for "to flow." It's just another form of the same Latin word listed at the beginning, and it has nothing to do with fire or glowing or lightning or any of those other meanings.

The other huge and completely illegitimate jump is the one from the Hebrews to the Indo-Europeans. The "evidence" for the origin of the Levites is based on words from a completely different language family. There is no known relationship between the two families. They might as well be taking about various birds in an effort to explain the origins of Homo sapiens.

They've taken a smattering of word-snapshots from a handful of languages and tried to string them together. However, they never once talk about the origins of any of those individual words, about the sound changes or semantic shifts, or about the genetic relationships of the languages being discussed.

The whole book (from the previous post) and this whole article are nothing more than racist, sexist pseudo-science.
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Offline Porter

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« Reply #22 on: October 18, 2005, 11:58:34 AM »
Quote
he whole book (from the previous post) and this whole article are nothing more than racist, sexist pseudo-science.
What article?  Yours? o_O
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Offline Teshi

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« Reply #23 on: October 18, 2005, 12:07:50 PM »
I think he means the one he quoted beginning with "another curious connection...".

Offline Porter

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« Reply #24 on: October 18, 2005, 12:19:02 PM »
But that's from the same book, isn't it?
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