Author Topic: Dear Expert (Read 161813 times)

Jonathon · « **Reply #150 on:** October 13, 2010, 01:38:53 PM »

It's not just Norse per se, but a broader Germanic mythology. In Old English the form was something like Wodin, but in Norse it was Odin.

As for why it's not pronounced like it's spelled, I believe it's because spelling was more or less standardized with the advent of printing, but pronunciation continued to change. Common words are especially prone to changes in pronunciation. The second syllable in Wednesday is unstressed, so it's easy to delete the vowel and turn the n into a syllabic consonant. Once that happened, there was a large cluster of consonants all pronounced with the tip of the tongue against the back of the teeth or the bony ridge just behind them, and when consonants cluster like that, some of them tend to get deleted. Strictly speaking, it's not a whole syllable that got deleted, but the end of the first syllable and the middle of the second.

BlackBlade · « **Reply #151 on:** October 13, 2010, 01:50:35 PM »

Jon Boy: Wasn't it Norse first before it spread through the Germanic peoples?

Jonathon · « **Reply #152 on:** October 13, 2010, 02:06:01 PM »

I'm saying that the Norse are part of the Germanic peoples. Norse mythology is part of Germanic mythology, which actually traces back to Proto-Indo-European mythology along with Greek and Roman and all those others.

BlackBlade · « **Reply #153 on:** October 20, 2010, 07:14:36 AM »

Quote from: Jonathon on October 13, 2010, 02:06:01 PM

I'm saying that the Norse are part of the Germanic peoples. Norse mythology is part of Germanic mythology, which actually traces back to Proto-Indo-European mythology along with Greek and Roman and all those others.

Didn't see this, thanks for clarifying.

----

As an aside sometimes when I write out titles in quotation marks I know there are certain words that you do not capitalize. I'm fairly confident "the" and "or" shouldn't be, but is there a universally accepted rule of thumb for this? Also, did you ever figured out where the phrase, "Losing money hand over fist originated?"

Just giving you something to do all day.

rivka · « **Reply #154 on:** October 20, 2010, 07:33:26 AM »

"Hand over fist" is an image that any Boy Scout should recognize.

BlackBlade · « **Reply #155 on:** October 20, 2010, 07:43:17 AM »

There you go rivka with those sweeping hyperbolic statements. Clearly not *every* scout recognizes that image.

Kinda disappointed I don't know what image rivka is indicating. I am also questioning my scouting credentials.

rivka · « **Reply #156 on:** October 20, 2010, 07:50:51 AM »

*bewildered* Isn't rope climbing a required Scouting skill?

(And yes, the sweeping hyperbole was just for you.

)

rivka · « **Reply #157 on:** October 20, 2010, 07:56:13 AM »

Peek-a-tures!

cute ones
hauling rope, hand over fist

BlackBlade · « **Reply #158 on:** October 20, 2010, 08:01:46 AM »

Oh I see. But I don't think that image exactly explains why you can lose money hand over fist.

rivka · « **Reply #159 on:** October 20, 2010, 10:14:38 AM »

"Hand over fist" = really fast

Applying it to money is not a unique use of the phrase, although it is fairly common. I suspect because it includes the image of someone desperately grasping as the money slips away.

Jonathon · « **Reply #160 on:** October 20, 2010, 10:58:32 AM »

Quote from: BlackBlade on October 20, 2010, 07:14:36 AM

As an aside sometimes when I write out titles in quotation marks I know there are certain words that you do not capitalize. I'm fairly confident "the" and "or" shouldn't be, but is there a universally accepted rule of thumb for this? Also, did you ever figured out where the phrase, "Losing money hand over fist originated?"

Just giving you something to do all day.

The general rule is to lowercase articles (the, a, an), coordinating conjunctions (and, or, but, yet, so, for, nor), and prepositions, except that you always capitalize the first and last words in the title, regardless of their part of speech.

And it appears that "hand over first" does have origins in hauling rope.

BlackBlade · « **Reply #161 on:** October 20, 2010, 11:31:09 AM »

Thanks rivka/Jon Boy.

Porter · « **Reply #162 on:** October 20, 2010, 05:19:25 PM »

Quote from: Jonathon on September 29, 2010, 09:11:08 AM

What I want to know is, what does it hurt having two different words for the same thing (assuming, of course, that they are exactly the same)?

Quote from: rivka on September 29, 2010, 10:17:58 AM

It makes Porter twitch.

Um, no. I was agreeing that we don't need superfluous words, but was gently mocking the idea that they're bad.

rivka · « **Reply #163 on:** October 20, 2010, 05:25:27 PM »

Huh? Haven't you repeatedly objected to "superfluous" words that "mean the same thing"?

Porter · « **Reply #164 on:** October 20, 2010, 05:45:54 PM »

As a general rule, I've got no problems with it. Having purchase and buy in the same language is perfectly OK with me.

What I sometimes object to when there are two words with useful differences between them which are merged into the same meaning. Somebody told me yesterday that they thought they have "discerning taste" in music. Because of the context, I asked if they really meant "discriminating taste". This person was not able to tell me, because to them, the two words meant exactly the same thing.

Some more example (of similar word pairs, not necessarily of ones that I personally care about) are imply/infer and comprise/compose.

rivka · « **Reply #165 on:** October 20, 2010, 05:50:56 PM »

In that case, I completely (and emphatically) agree!

Porter · « **Reply #166 on:** October 20, 2010, 05:51:45 PM »

*high five*

Tante Shvester · « **Reply #167 on:** October 25, 2010, 07:04:31 AM »

OK, I hear about this more and more: "Islamist". Mostly, it seems to me that "Islamist" is a scary way to say "Muslim". The way I hear it, someone will label a scary boogeyman an "Islamist", like that in itself is supposed to scare me. Does "Islamist" mean something different than "Muslim"? I know plenty of Muslims, but I'm not sure that I know any "Islamists", at least no one I would call "Islamist" and, I suspect, no one who would call him or herself one either.

Jonathon · « **Reply #168 on:** October 25, 2010, 09:17:50 AM »

Personally, I think it's a way to imply that all Muslims are terrorists or some such.

Porter · « **Reply #169 on:** October 25, 2010, 09:22:51 AM »

How does it imply that?

Jonathon · « **Reply #170 on:** October 25, 2010, 09:26:58 AM »

Okay, maybe that's an exaggeration. But -ist is often used with extreme or negative connotations, I think.

Annie Subjunctive · « **Reply #171 on:** October 25, 2010, 09:34:05 AM »

There is a word in French, Islamiste, that specifically means someone who practices Islam as a political agenda. (And I'm assuming that's where English got it or vice versa.) So, while a Muslim is someone who follows Islam as a religion, an Islamist is someone who makes Islam their politics. (hence the "-ist," because they're making it an "-ism") I think it's a perfectly legitimate word.

Also, isms in my opinion are not good. A person should not believe in an ism - he should believe in himself. I quote John Lennon: "I don't believe in Beatles - I just believe in me". A good point there. Of course, he was the Walrus. I could be the Walrus - I'd still have to bum rides off of people.

Porter · « **Reply #172 on:** October 25, 2010, 09:45:10 AM »

*shields eyes from camera while washing myself*

Jonathon · « **Reply #173 on:** October 25, 2010, 09:47:58 AM »

BlackBlade · « **Reply #174 on:** October 25, 2010, 10:24:31 AM »

Quote from: Jonathon on October 25, 2010, 09:26:58 AM

Okay, maybe that's an exaggeration. But -ist is often used with extreme or negative connotations, I think.

Sounds like you have a extremist POV towards -ist. What is it with all these leftist revisionists?