GalacticCactus Forum

Author Topic: How many ways can you find to spell "Qaddafi"?  (Read 8607 times)

0 Members and 4 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Jonathon

  • Evil T-Rex
  • Administrator
  • Übermember
  • *****
  • Posts: 24,680
  • This is the darkest timeline
    • View Profile
    • GalacticCactus
Re: How many ways can you find to spell "Qaddafi"?
« Reply #25 on: August 26, 2011, 12:54:22 PM »
Isn't there a really big version somewhere? I can never remember where it is.
You underestimate my ability to take things seriously!

Offline The Genuine

  • Ambcloacador of Right On
  • Super Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 3,570
    • View Profile
I think Jesse's right.

 -- Jonathon

Offline Marianne Dashwood

  • Super Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,767
    • View Profile
Re: How many ways can you find to spell "Qaddafi"?
« Reply #27 on: August 26, 2011, 03:32:29 PM »
I mean the "Q" sound we could spell as "Ch". The "Xi" sound we could spell as "Shee" But I completely agree, what matters is consistansy, and the Han Yu romanization works just fine.

There's a good reason to spell qiang differently than we spell chang, though. You could argue that the i indicates which one it's supposed to be, but q is a fundamentally different consonant from ch. So much so that native Chinese don't confuse them for each other - if anything, they mix ch with c. (Insert mental image of Taiwanese person saying "Ni yao ci fan, si bu si?")

Quote
Though I do wonder how it is that 佛 is "fo" and 多 is "duo" why isn't the former "fuo" or why isn't the latter "do"?

There's actually a reason - if you read the Wikipedia article on Hanyu Pinyin it explains the who story. Fo actually IS fuo, but in those certain sounds they decided to leave out the U for conciseness. They couldn't do this with duo, because duo contrasts with dou. There's no fou to worry about.

I think the whole notion of trying to pin down a correct (or standard) spelling in the roman alphabet for a word from a language that doesn't use the roman alphabet is both humorous and doomed to failure.

Personally, I kinda like that there are multiple spellings of Kadaffi floating around.

It's rather important, though - especially for character-based languages where people who are functionally fluent can be illiterate but still need a way to negotiate the language. If someone's name is written as "Mr. Chang," and I'm not sure which Romanization system he's using, I don't know whether to call him Mr. Qiang, Mr. Zhang, or Mr. Chang. Same with place names. In Taiwan there are three separate Romanization systems still floating around (even though Hanyu Pinyin is at least legally considered to be standard now), and if you have to take the train to Xinzhu and the sign at the train station says Hsinchu, how well are you going to find your way there?
Occam must be shaving in his grave.
-Pooka

Offline rivka

  • Linguistic Anarchist
  • Übermember
  • *****
  • Posts: 14,155
    • View Profile
Re: How many ways can you find to spell "Qaddafi"?
« Reply #28 on: August 26, 2011, 05:08:41 PM »
Isn't there a really big version somewhere? I can never remember where it is.
Until JT gets around to restoring EI, my links to them won't work.
"Sometimes you need a weirdo to tell you that things have gotten weird. Your normal friends, neighbors, and coworkers won’t tell you."
-Aaron Kunin

Offline BlackBlade

  • Deadbeat Dad
  • Super Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 6,029
  • Gifs are all lies.
    • View Profile
Re: How many ways can you find to spell "Qaddafi"?
« Reply #29 on: August 26, 2011, 05:18:00 PM »
Quote
There's actually a reason - if you read the Wikipedia article on Hanyu Pinyin it explains the who story. Fo actually IS fuo, but in those certain sounds they decided to leave out the U for conciseness. They couldn't do this with duo, because duo contrasts with dou. There's no fou to worry about.

But there is! "否" as in 是否真是的 "Is or isn't true." 否 is spelled fou, it's not a common sound, but it's a common word.
Kyrgyzstan, is the homeland of the Kyrgyzs, a people best known for cheating at Scrabble. -Tante Shvester

What, you expected us to be badly injured or dead, and flying blind to boot? You're the one who told us all to be Awesome. -Brinestone

Offline Marianne Dashwood

  • Super Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,767
    • View Profile
Re: How many ways can you find to spell "Qaddafi"?
« Reply #30 on: August 26, 2011, 05:20:59 PM »
Huh.
Occam must be shaving in his grave.
-Pooka

Offline BlackBlade

  • Deadbeat Dad
  • Super Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 6,029
  • Gifs are all lies.
    • View Profile
Re: How many ways can you find to spell "Qaddafi"?
« Reply #31 on: August 26, 2011, 05:24:20 PM »
I'm sure we are just riveting the rest of GC with this topic. :)
Kyrgyzstan, is the homeland of the Kyrgyzs, a people best known for cheating at Scrabble. -Tante Shvester

What, you expected us to be badly injured or dead, and flying blind to boot? You're the one who told us all to be Awesome. -Brinestone

Offline Marianne Dashwood

  • Super Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,767
    • View Profile
Re: How many ways can you find to spell "Qaddafi"?
« Reply #32 on: August 26, 2011, 05:38:52 PM »
I'll revive their interest with a joke:

I was playing chess with my friend and he said, "Let's make this interesting." So we stopped playing chess.
Occam must be shaving in his grave.
-Pooka

Offline BlackBlade

  • Deadbeat Dad
  • Super Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 6,029
  • Gifs are all lies.
    • View Profile
Re: How many ways can you find to spell "Qaddafi"?
« Reply #33 on: August 26, 2011, 05:44:14 PM »
*snort* I lol'd.
Kyrgyzstan, is the homeland of the Kyrgyzs, a people best known for cheating at Scrabble. -Tante Shvester

What, you expected us to be badly injured or dead, and flying blind to boot? You're the one who told us all to be Awesome. -Brinestone

Offline Jonathon

  • Evil T-Rex
  • Administrator
  • Übermember
  • *****
  • Posts: 24,680
  • This is the darkest timeline
    • View Profile
    • GalacticCactus
Re: How many ways can you find to spell "Qaddafi"?
« Reply #34 on: August 26, 2011, 07:13:24 PM »
Until JT gets around to restoring EI, my links to them won't work.

Ah, right. I forgot that's where they're hosted.

I'll revive their interest with a joke:

I was playing chess with my friend and he said, "Let's make this interesting." So we stopped playing chess.

What did you do that was more interesting than chess? ???
You underestimate my ability to take things seriously!

Offline Marianne Dashwood

  • Super Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,767
    • View Profile
Re: How many ways can you find to spell "Qaddafi"?
« Reply #35 on: August 26, 2011, 08:40:16 PM »
Braided my hair, I think.
Occam must be shaving in his grave.
-Pooka

Offline Jonathon

  • Evil T-Rex
  • Administrator
  • Übermember
  • *****
  • Posts: 24,680
  • This is the darkest timeline
    • View Profile
    • GalacticCactus
Re: How many ways can you find to spell "Qaddafi"?
« Reply #36 on: August 26, 2011, 08:41:09 PM »
*mind reels*
You underestimate my ability to take things seriously!

Offline BlackBlade

  • Deadbeat Dad
  • Super Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 6,029
  • Gifs are all lies.
    • View Profile
Re: How many ways can you find to spell "Qaddafi"?
« Reply #37 on: August 27, 2011, 07:03:41 AM »
*mind reels*
Oh sure, like you know how fun it is to braid one's hair.
Kyrgyzstan, is the homeland of the Kyrgyzs, a people best known for cheating at Scrabble. -Tante Shvester

What, you expected us to be badly injured or dead, and flying blind to boot? You're the one who told us all to be Awesome. -Brinestone

Offline pooka

  • hover bear
  • Übermember
  • *****
  • Posts: 18,877
    • View Profile
Re: How many ways can you find to spell "Qaddafi"?
« Reply #38 on: August 28, 2011, 08:53:41 PM »
I thought the letter transliterated as q was uvular, not velar. But I have no idea what letter it actually is in his name.

Probably, I'm rusty on my places of articulation that don't involve English or the particular languages that we looked at in Phonetics and Phonology.  It's a voiced K, but really far back. Arabic Linguistics was was mostly nonconcatenative grammar and pronoun/verb/complementizer leakage.  The only thing they did with phonology was the famous coronal assimilation problem.
"From each according to his ability, to each according to his work."  Comte de Saint-Simon

Offline Marianne Dashwood

  • Super Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,767
    • View Profile
Re: How many ways can you find to spell "Qaddafi"?
« Reply #39 on: August 28, 2011, 09:18:58 PM »
It's really famous. People magazine talks about it all the time.
Occam must be shaving in his grave.
-Pooka

Offline pooka

  • hover bear
  • Übermember
  • *****
  • Posts: 18,877
    • View Profile
Re: How many ways can you find to spell "Qaddafi"?
« Reply #40 on: August 29, 2011, 11:09:57 AM »
I'm going to draw a line in the sand and say you're not a lijnguist if you haven't done an Arabic coronals assimilation exercise.  It's like the one about French doing whatever it is they do with the letters on the ends of words.  (The sell them to Satan in a deal so they can eat all that rich dairy and stay slim). 
"From each according to his ability, to each according to his work."  Comte de Saint-Simon

Offline Tante Shvester

  • Souper Member
  • Super Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 9,868
    • View Profile
    • About Tante
Re: How many ways can you find to spell "Qaddafi"?
« Reply #41 on: August 29, 2011, 11:15:28 AM »
<-- not a linguist
Fighting thread drift with guilt, reverse psychology, and chicken soup.
Sweet! Law of Moses loopholes! -- Anneke
I love Bones.  -- Sweet Clementine
She grew on him like she was a colony of E. coli and he was room-temperature Canadian beef. -- anonymous

Offline Jonathon

  • Evil T-Rex
  • Administrator
  • Übermember
  • *****
  • Posts: 24,680
  • This is the darkest timeline
    • View Profile
    • GalacticCactus
Re: How many ways can you find to spell "Qaddafi"?
« Reply #42 on: August 29, 2011, 11:34:37 AM »
I'm going to draw a line in the sand and say you're not a lijnguist if you haven't done an Arabic coronals assimilation exercise. 

What if I've done one on Berber syllabification?
You underestimate my ability to take things seriously!

Offline Marianne Dashwood

  • Super Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,767
    • View Profile
Re: How many ways can you find to spell "Qaddafi"?
« Reply #43 on: August 29, 2011, 11:55:21 AM »
I'm going to draw a line in the sand and say you're not a linguist if you spell it "lijnguist."
Occam must be shaving in his grave.
-Pooka

Offline Marianne Dashwood

  • Super Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,767
    • View Profile
Re: How many ways can you find to spell "Qaddafi"?
« Reply #44 on: August 29, 2011, 11:56:45 AM »
Unless that was a palatal approximant.
Occam must be shaving in his grave.
-Pooka

Offline pooka

  • hover bear
  • Übermember
  • *****
  • Posts: 18,877
    • View Profile
Re: How many ways can you find to spell "Qaddafi"?
« Reply #45 on: August 30, 2011, 11:39:56 AM »
Hoist on my own retard!
"From each according to his ability, to each according to his work."  Comte de Saint-Simon

Offline Jonathon

  • Evil T-Rex
  • Administrator
  • Übermember
  • *****
  • Posts: 24,680
  • This is the darkest timeline
    • View Profile
    • GalacticCactus
Re: How many ways can you find to spell "Qaddafi"?
« Reply #46 on: August 30, 2011, 11:55:45 AM »
 :D
You underestimate my ability to take things seriously!