Author Topic: Help me figure something out (Read 7184 times)

Jonathon · « **on:** August 22, 2008, 02:43:07 PM »

I have a sentence that I'm trying to make sense of, and I can't quite figure out what it's supposed to be.

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She described her first meal in Chile of artichokes on a skew of brazed beef tongue, fish, bacon wrapped around a prune, and shrimp as "very tasty."

Obviously "brazed" should be "braised," but I can't figure out "on a skew." "In a stew"? "On a skewer"? I just don't know. Any help would be great.

The Genuine · « **Reply #1 on:** August 22, 2008, 03:21:01 PM »

On a skewer, definitely, because of the bacon-wrapping. That's a BBQ/skewering technique, not a stewing technique.

Jonathon · « **Reply #2 on:** August 22, 2008, 03:37:59 PM »

But maybe not all the things in the list are on the skewer or in the stew. It's impossible to tell whether it's [artichokes on [a skew of brazed beef tongue, fish, bacon wrapped around a prune, and shrimp]] or [[artichokes on a skew of brazed beef tongue], [fish], [bacon wrapped around a prune], and [shrimp]].

And what's the deal with setting the artichokes apart? If those things are all on a skewer, why not "a skew of artichokes, brazed beef tongue, fish, bacon wrapped around a prune, and shrimp"?

Neutros the Radioactive Dragon · « **Reply #3 on:** August 22, 2008, 03:39:49 PM »

Don't know, but I'm hungry now.

Let me add: Mesquite Grilled.

The Genuine · « **Reply #4 on:** August 22, 2008, 04:59:53 PM »

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And what's the deal with setting the artichokes apart?

I think the answer is as simple as: the person who set the artichokes apart in that sentence is the same person who wrote the rest of that sentence.

What the heck is that sentence from, anyway?

Jonathon · « **Reply #5 on:** August 22, 2008, 05:25:24 PM »

A history of the LDS Church in South America. I'm really not sure why the author felt that was worth including, but it's far too late to do anything about it now.

pooka · « **Reply #6 on:** August 22, 2008, 09:57:37 PM »

Which part is a problem? Why not just put commas around the contents of the meal? And I'm down with "skew" = "skewer". Of course, only the author knows what was meant -- possibly.

Jonathon · « **Reply #7 on:** August 23, 2008, 07:58:51 AM »

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Which part is a problem?

"Skew." It does not mean the same thing as "skewer," and I'm not sure that's what the author meant anyway.

Tante Shvester · « **Reply #8 on:** August 24, 2008, 09:23:45 AM »

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Which part is a problem?
"Skew." It does not mean the same thing as "skewer,"

True. Skewer is more skewed than skew, but not as skewed as skewest, which is the most skewed of all.

Hope this helps clear things up.

dkw · « **Reply #9 on:** August 24, 2008, 02:09:34 PM »

Could be "slew" as in a whole lot of braised beef tongue.

pooka · « **Reply #10 on:** August 24, 2008, 03:02:47 PM »

My main argument for skewer is the bacon wrapped prune part. It's hard to keep bacon wrapped around something without a skewer. To leave it "skew" makes no sense, unless there is a defnition of skew I'm not familiar with. While this is possible, it seems like you wouldn't be asking if that were the case.

Annie Subjunctive · « **Reply #11 on:** August 24, 2008, 03:39:01 PM »

I think she means that the whole meal was askew.

On a related and fortunately relevant note, I learned the Chinese character for skewer today: ?

Isn't that fantastic? And who said the Golden Age of the Pictograph was dead?

Tante Shvester · « **Reply #12 on:** August 24, 2008, 08:56:53 PM »

"Hi honey, I'm home! What's for dinner?"

"Rectangles on a stick!"

Neutros the Radioactive Dragon · « **Reply #13 on:** August 25, 2008, 08:07:07 AM »

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I think she means that the whole meal was askew.

On a related and fortunately relevant note, I learned the Chinese character for skewer today: ?

Isn't that fantastic? And who said the Golden Age of the Pictograph was dead?

Yeah. I think the Chinese nailed it on that one.

Icarus · « **Reply #14 on:** October 17, 2008, 07:33:09 PM »

"Put your seatbacks in the upright position" or "put your seat backs in the upright position"? Google is inconclusive.

Jonathon · « **Reply #15 on:** October 17, 2008, 07:45:40 PM »

The American Heritage Dictionary has "seatback." The OED has "seat-back," but it's apparently referring to the covering of the back of the seat. I can't find it in Merriam-Webster's.

Icarus · « **Reply #16 on:** October 17, 2008, 07:59:20 PM »

Cool!

Icarus · « **Reply #17 on:** October 17, 2008, 08:00:42 PM »

AHD's .wav of seatback sounds creepy as hell. Like a ghost is possessing my machine.

Icarus · « **Reply #18 on:** October 17, 2008, 08:02:26 PM »

Say "SeaTTTback" three times in a row while in an airplane restroom and Faye Tucker will burst in through the fuselage and drag you down to hell.

Jonathon · « **Reply #19 on:** October 17, 2008, 08:05:48 PM »

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AHD's .wav of seatback sounds creepy as hell. Like a ghost is possessing my machine.

Holy crap yes.

Icarus · « **Reply #20 on:** October 18, 2008, 06:35:46 AM »

According to various sources I've found, till, 'til, and 'till are all acceptable shortened forms of until. I also discovered that till actually predates until, while the forms with the apostrophes are recent inventions. However, using till as a preposition and not a verb still looks wrong to me. I wouldn't want some overzealous editor to see it and think I'm just ignorant. Artistic license is great and all, but there's a right way to be wrong.

So what I'm looking for is statistics on current usage. Since google doesn't apparently parse the apostrophe, and it doesn't distinguish between till the preposition and till the verb, I'm at a loss as to how to determine which shortened form is most commonly used today. Then I thought to myself, "Self, there is just one place where you can get help with that question."

Brinestone · « **Reply #21 on:** October 18, 2008, 08:14:10 AM »

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AHD's .wav of seatback sounds creepy as hell. Like a ghost is possessing my machine.
Holy crap yes.

Happy Halloween from AHD!

Annie Subjunctive · « **Reply #22 on:** October 18, 2008, 08:38:32 AM »

So what about traytable?

Jonathon · « **Reply #23 on:** October 18, 2008, 10:09:31 AM »

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According to various sources I've found, till, 'til, and 'till are all acceptable shortened forms of until. I also discovered that till actually predates until, while the forms with the apostrophes are recent inventions. However, using till as a preposition and not a verb still looks wrong to me. I wouldn't want some overzealous editor to see it and think I'm just ignorant. Artistic license is great and all, but there's a right way to be wrong.

So what I'm looking for is statistics on current usage. Since google doesn't apparently parse the apostrophe, and it doesn't distinguish between till the preposition and till the verb, I'm at a loss as to how to determine which shortened form is most commonly used today. Then I thought to myself, "Self, there is just one place where you can get help with that question."

And you came here instead?

I'd love to get you some really exact numbers, but I'm having a hard time figuring out how to use this corpus. I searched for "till" and "til", but it didn't like "'till" or "'til". So all I can give you so far is 7965 for "till" and "997" for "til", but those numbers are pretty clear.

One nitpick: none of those are shortened forms of "until" any more than "to" is a shortened form of "unto". "Till" is actually just the Old Norse equivalent of "to" which was borrowed during the late Old English period. And you realize, of course, that the hypothetical overzealous editor is really the ignorant one, right?

Anyway, if those numbers aren't good enough, here's what I was taught in one of my editing classes: "Till" is absolutely fine and is preferable. "'Til" is technically wrong, but it's common enough that a lot of people actually prefer it and think it's right. "'Till" is a weird hybrid of the two that should be avoided.

Icarus · « **Reply #24 on:** October 18, 2008, 10:26:10 AM »

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One nitpick: none of those are shortened forms of "until" any more than "to" is a shortened form of "unto". "Till" is actually just the Old Norse equivalent of "to" which was borrowed during the late Old English period. And you realize, of course, that the hypothetical overzealous editor is really the ignorant one, right?

I thought my post made it clear I was aware of both of those things.