Author Topic: Where you live, is "appetizing" a noun? (Read 12617 times)

kojabu · « **Reply #25 on:** November 29, 2006, 08:28:56 PM »

My grandma said that my aunt wanted her to come by her for Christmas. I thought it was kind of odd.

Rivka, when you say tri-state area, which three states do you mean?

rivka · « **Reply #26 on:** November 29, 2006, 08:32:36 PM »

NY, NJ . . . um, Esther, what's the third one? I think it's either PA or CT.

I guess it's CT.

kojabu · « **Reply #27 on:** November 29, 2006, 08:46:56 PM »

That's the tristate metropolitan area (NY, NJ, CT). PA works too, depending on where you live. Growing up I always thought it was NY, NJ, and PA because I live right near those borders and then someone told me it was really NY, NJ, and CT and my world was shattered. /melodramatic

rivka · « **Reply #28 on:** November 29, 2006, 09:00:24 PM »

Honestly, I always used it as a way to refer to NY and NJ together. No one really cares which is the third one.

kojabu · « **Reply #29 on:** November 29, 2006, 09:17:38 PM »

Haha, yea. We don't REALLY need PA or CT...

Noemon · « **Reply #30 on:** November 30, 2006, 06:15:00 AM »

All of the uses of "by" in this way in my dialect (or at least my idiolect--I think it's dialectical, though) are paired with verbs having to do with motion--"go by", "swing by", "run by"*...stuff like that. In all cases, the use of this construction means that a minimum of time was spent in whatever place the person is visiting. If I say "I swung by the store after work", for example, it means that I stopped, quickly got a few things, and left. If I ended up doing a through shopping trip I'd say that I "went to" or "stopped at" the store.

Prior to having read this thread, if someone had told me that they ate by someone I would have assumed that they meant that they ate while sitting next to them. It wouldn't have occurred to me that they meant anything else by it.

*"stop by" is the one exception to this that I can think of, and even there you could still argue that it had to do with motion, or at least the cessation of it.

Tante Shvester · « **Reply #31 on:** November 30, 2006, 06:50:33 AM »

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The usage includes "was by" -- "I was by her house yesterday"; "ate by" -- "I eat by them every Shabbos"; "stay by" -- "Whenever I'm in New York, I stay by my cousins"; and various and sundry other atrocities.

It's not an atrocity. It is me being remarkable!

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There's nobody in the world whose speech is not remarkable in some way or another.

Oh, and Porter, the virtual kind of hugs/handshakes and

are okie-doke with me. It is the actual physical contact that gets me skittish.

Tante Shvester · « **Reply #32 on:** November 30, 2006, 06:52:12 AM »

And where I grew up (NY 'burbs) and where I live now (NJ), "tri-state area" always means NY, NJ, and CT, as they are all commuting distance to Manhattan, I guess. Pennsy is not.

pooka · « **Reply #33 on:** November 30, 2006, 08:26:42 AM »

So I still don't get how "appetizing" would be a Yiddishism. All "appetizing" appears to be is an unexpected use of an otherwise valid participle. I don't see where it is inherently different from advertizer/advertising.

I gotta go fix my appetizements now.

rivka · « **Reply #34 on:** November 30, 2006, 08:59:43 AM »

Because I think (and I need to check this with someone who speaks way more Yiddish than I do to be sure) that in Yiddish the word for "appetizer" is the same as the word for "appetizing."

rivka · « **Reply #35 on:** November 30, 2006, 09:07:00 AM »

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All of the uses of "by" in this way in my dialect (or at least my idiolect--I think it's dialectical, though) are paired with verbs having to do with motion--"go by", "swing by", "run by"*...stuff like that. In all cases, the use of this construction means that a minimum of time was spent in whatever place the person is visiting. If I say "I swung by the store after work", for example, it means that I stopped, quickly got a few things, and left. If I ended up doing a through shopping trip I'd say that I "went to" or "stopped at" the store.

I would call those uses standard English. Are they not?

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Prior to having read this thread, if someone had told me that they ate by someone I would have assumed that they meant that they ate while sitting next to them. It wouldn't have occurred to me that they meant anything else by it.

Good!

Esther, it's not your atrocity, to be sure. But the misuse of "by" is an abomination that curdles the blood in my veins. A shanda fer da goyim!

Jonathon · « **Reply #36 on:** November 30, 2006, 09:29:41 AM »

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So I still don't get how "appetizing" would be a Yiddishism. All "appetizing" appears to be is an unexpected use of an otherwise valid participle.

It's actually a gerund (verb acting as a noun), not a participle (verb acting as a modifier).

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Because I think (and I need to check this with someone who speaks way more Yiddish than I do to be sure) that in Yiddish the word for "appetizer" is the same as the word for "appetizing."

I can believe it, even though I don't speak Yiddish. I know that German uses gerunds in this way much more than English does. English is more inclined to use other kinds of nominalizing endings like -er.

Lady Montagu · « **Reply #37 on:** November 30, 2006, 09:41:38 AM »

I miss hearing "fixin". "I was fixing to go to the store - do you want to come?" I liked that.

I have decided the distinctive thing about DC is that the entire town will wear black pants, black shoes, a white shirt, and red accessory ON THE SAME DAY. It's like everyone called each other the night before.

I don't mind - I like educated, dressed-up guys. I always enjoy the metro rides.

Other great locations are history conferences. The standard uniform for guys is khaki pants, a blue shirt, loafers, glasses, and stubble. Just adorable.

Noemon · « **Reply #38 on:** November 30, 2006, 10:04:22 AM »

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All of the uses of "by" in this way in my dialect (or at least my idiolect--I think it's dialectical, though) are paired with verbs having to do with motion--"go by", "swing by", "run by"*...stuff like that. In all cases, the use of this construction means that a minimum of time was spent in whatever place the person is visiting. If I say "I swung by the store after work", for example, it means that I stopped, quickly got a few things, and left. If I ended up doing a through shopping trip I'd say that I "went to" or "stopped at" the store.
I would call those uses standard English. Are they not?

Well, I'd have assumed so prior to this thread, but once I started thinking about it I wasn't sure.

rivka · « **Reply #39 on:** November 30, 2006, 11:10:01 AM »

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I know that German uses gerunds in this way much more than English does.

Right, and so does Yiddish. I just don't happen to know if it is true of this specific case.

Tante Shvester · « **Reply #40 on:** November 30, 2006, 12:16:45 PM »

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I miss hearing "fixin". "I was fixing to go to the store - do you want to come?" I liked that.

My husband uses that. He also has more verb tenses than I do. He can say "You ought to should take the plants indoors -- they're predicting frost."

Born and raised in Atlanta, where I guess that sort of thing goes on.

pooka · « **Reply #41 on:** November 30, 2006, 06:32:14 PM »

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It's actually a gerund (verb acting as a noun), not a participle (verb acting as a modifier).

If it is a gerund, and not a, adjective phrase from which the modified noun was dropped. Like what rivka originally read it as.

I mean, is "appetize" really a verb? We can conceive of one, but was it one prior to that?

Jonathon · « **Reply #42 on:** November 30, 2006, 08:02:52 PM »

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If it is a gerund, and not a, adjective phrase from which the modified noun was dropped. Like what rivka originally read it as.

There must be something missing in that sentence, because I don't understand.

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I mean, is "appetize" really a verb? We can conceive of one, but was it one prior to that?

The OED says that it's rare. Apparently the word appetizing was formed from a French borrowing, so the bare verb never actually existed in English (or exists only as an occasional backformation).

Icarus · « **Reply #43 on:** December 01, 2006, 02:50:07 PM »

Noemon wrote the post I would have written were I as thoughtful and articulate as he. Until I read his post I was trying to think of a way to say much the same thing, but it was going to be vaguer and less detailed. You may assume that I just copied and pasted his posts here.

Noemon · « **Reply #44 on:** December 01, 2006, 03:06:16 PM »

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Noemon wrote the post I would have written were I as thoughtful and articulate as he. Until I read his post I was trying to think of a way to say much the same thing, but it was going to be vaguer and less detailed. You may assume that I just copied and pasted his posts here.

Sig!

Thanks Joe!

rivka · « **Reply #45 on:** December 01, 2006, 03:34:16 PM »

Aw, no more coelacanth?

pooka · « **Reply #46 on:** December 01, 2006, 03:49:02 PM »

Poor coelacanth. Back to your mysterious cave under the Indian Ocean.

Noemon · « **Reply #47 on:** December 01, 2006, 06:01:53 PM »

I love that coelacanth quote--it's probably one of my all-time favorites uttered by anyone here. I've saved it to my on-site clipboard for future use.

pooka · « **Reply #48 on:** December 01, 2006, 06:45:52 PM »

Excellent. :devil:

rivka · « **Reply #49 on:** December 02, 2006, 06:40:45 PM »

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I love that coelacanth quote--it's probably one of my all-time favorites uttered by anyone here. I've saved it to my on-site clipboard for future use.

What is its original source? I don't remember (if I ever knew) -- I just always thought it was cool.