Author Topic: Dear Expert (Read 165403 times)

BlackBlade · « **Reply #700 on:** September 03, 2013, 09:34:31 PM »

Quote from: Amilia on September 03, 2013, 09:14:32 PM

Are Japan and Nippon different names for the same place, or are they just different transliterations of the same name?

Japan is what the early Dutch traders called Japan based on what they heard other people in South East Asia calling it. Nippon is the Japanese word for Japan.

edit: It's a similar story for China. Nobody in China calls it that in Chinese.

Amilia · « **Reply #701 on:** September 03, 2013, 10:02:15 PM »

Interesting! They were similar enough, yet different enough, that I thought it could go either way. And it's been bugging me. Thank you.

I understand we did that with American Indian tribe names as well--called them by what their neighbors/enemies called them rather than what they call themselves.

Annie Subjunctive · « **Reply #702 on:** September 05, 2013, 04:39:39 PM »

Well, Nippon is an older pronunciation in Japanese. The current one you'll hear is Nihon.

Really, though, it's the same word either way. The Chinese characters used to write the names in both Chinese and Japanese are the same - 日本. There's actually some sound similarity in some varieties of Chinese with our European variations on "Japan." The modern Mandarin pronunciation is /ɻɨpən/ or /ʐɨpən/. Older pronunciations are what the Europeans interpreted as "Japan."

Tante Shvester · « **Reply #703 on:** September 09, 2013, 03:11:41 PM »

In a discussion with my son, when he was politely disagreeing with me, he kept saying "Be that as it may . . ."

Be. That. As. It. May.

Expert, how would you diagram that?

Annie Subjunctive · « **Reply #704 on:** September 10, 2013, 08:39:56 AM »

Another question: Curriculum Vitae or Curriculum Vita? Why do I see both? I feel like "vitae" is probably plural but in that case why is it used?

Tante Shvester · « **Reply #705 on:** September 10, 2013, 08:56:04 AM »

I see "vitae" a lot more. I don't remember seeing "vita". I don't know why.

Annie Subjunctive · « **Reply #706 on:** September 10, 2013, 08:57:45 AM »

For some reason all the professors in my department write "vita" on theirs.

Jonathon · « **Reply #707 on:** September 10, 2013, 09:19:26 AM »

Quote from: Annie Subjunctive on September 10, 2013, 08:39:56 AM

Another question: Curriculum Vitae or Curriculum Vita? Why do I see both? I feel like "vitae" is probably plural but in that case why is it used?

Traditionally, it's curriculum vitae. Vitae is a genitive singular, and the phrase translates to "life's course". Vita is the nominative singular (I think), which is grammatically incorrect, at least according to Latin. I don't know why you see both.

Annie Subjunctive · « **Reply #708 on:** September 10, 2013, 09:35:14 AM »

Huh. I wonder if someone thought it was plural and was like "Hey, curriculum is singular, this should be too."

Jonathon · « **Reply #709 on:** September 10, 2013, 10:59:48 AM »

Could be. I bet "curriculum vitae" was misapprehended as a plural, since vitae can also be the nominative plural form.

Jonathon · « **Reply #710 on:** September 10, 2013, 11:20:52 AM »

Quote from: Tante Shvester on September 09, 2013, 03:11:41 PM

In a discussion with my son, when he was politely disagreeing with me, he kept saying "Be that as it may . . ."

Be. That. As. It. May.

Expert, how would you diagram that?

Do you actually want a diagram, or just an explanation?

It's an archaic subjunctive use of be with subject-auxiliary inversion instead of the normal word order. (We can still do this with some subjunctives today, as in "Were I there" instead of "If I were there".) In modern English, we'd use "That may be" instead of "be that". The subordinate clause "as it may" also shows ellipsis; the full form would be "as it may be". So translated into modern English and expanded, it would read, "That may be as it may be", which is really just a wordy way to say "That may be."

Tante Shvester · « **Reply #711 on:** September 12, 2013, 08:45:24 AM »

Thank you for the explanation. I don't need a whole diagram. Although I'm willing to lay a bet that if I told my son that his usage is archaic, he'd reply, "Methinks thou doth protest too much", because he's hilarious that way.

BlackBlade · « **Reply #712 on:** September 21, 2013, 11:31:38 AM »

Dear Expert,

"The United States was founded in 1776."

"The United States was founded on July 4th 1776."

~~"The United States was founded on 1776."~~

~~"The United States was founded in July 4th 1776."~~

What gives?

Jonathon · « **Reply #713 on:** September 21, 2013, 02:33:46 PM »

I read a great post once (maybe on Language Log?) about the spatial semantics of dates and prepositions. Years and months are like containers (3D) and take in; days are like planes (2D) and take on; and times of day are like points (1D) and take at. There's no real reason why; that's just the way we think about time, apparently.

BlackBlade · « **Reply #714 on:** September 21, 2013, 05:16:07 PM »

Interesting! I guess you'd also say, "The United States was founded in the 18th century."

So we all just naturally started doing it that way?

Brinestone · « **Reply #715 on:** September 22, 2013, 11:40:06 AM »

Is this true in other languages or just English?

Jonathon · « **Reply #716 on:** September 22, 2013, 04:49:14 PM »

Quote from: BlackBlade on September 21, 2013, 05:16:07 PM

Interesting! I guess you'd also say, "The United States was founded in the 18th century."

Yup.

Quote

So we all just naturally started doing it that way?

More or less. It could be that there's some natural metaphor that pulled us in that direction. I'm not sure. I really wish I could find the discussion I'm thinking of.

Jonathon · « **Reply #717 on:** September 22, 2013, 04:50:36 PM »

Quote from: Brinestone on September 22, 2013, 11:40:06 AM

Is this true in other languages or just English?

I'm not sure. I wouldn't be surprised if it's common. I think it may be true of the other languages I've studied, but they're closely related to English anyway, so that might not mean much.

Annie Subjunctive · « **Reply #718 on:** September 23, 2013, 03:28:40 PM »

Chinese uses no prepositions for dates and times.

Japanese uses the particle "ni" for specific points in time. (It's the same particle that means, "in," "at," and "to" in other contexts). You use it in phrases like "I'm leaving AT 8:00" or "I was born ON June 1st" or "He died IN 1980." But you wouldn't use any particle to say things like "tomorrow," "today," "this year," etc.

So there's your input from some non Indo-European languages.

Jonathon · « **Reply #719 on:** September 23, 2013, 03:51:43 PM »

Good to know. Thanks, Annie.

BlackBlade · « **Reply #720 on:** September 23, 2013, 04:24:01 PM »

Sorry I should have said something earlier, but I felt like my inability to think of a word other than 在 "at" in Chinese was indicative of my being too tired or just plain ignorance of Chinese, not a limitation in the language.

But Annie is right as far as I know.

Jonathon · « **Reply #721 on:** September 23, 2013, 06:19:23 PM »

Quote from: BlackBlade on September 23, 2013, 04:24:01 PM

Sorry I should have said something earlier . . .

Apology not accepted!

BlackBlade · « **Reply #722 on:** September 23, 2013, 07:12:28 PM »

Fine. It will just stay in my account, gaining interest. Better apology later!

Jonathon · « **Reply #723 on:** September 23, 2013, 07:23:58 PM »

I look forward to it!

Annie Subjunctive · « **Reply #724 on:** September 23, 2013, 08:24:16 PM »

Quote from: BlackBlade on September 23, 2013, 04:24:01 PM

Sorry I should have said something earlier, but I felt like my inability to think of a word other than 在 "at" in Chinese was indicative of my being too tired or just plain ignorance of Chinese, not a limitation in the language.

But Annie is right as far as I know.

It's not your fault. It's Chinese's fault for being so weird and just leaving out so many linguistic features the rest of us spend so much time and effort on.

Of course, to make up for it, they write words with 5,000 little pictures.