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Author Topic: Dear Expert  (Read 165263 times)

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Offline Tante Shvester

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Re: Dear Expert
« Reply #500 on: June 07, 2012, 12:10:13 PM »
But not with me in the actual time zone.  Just sayin'.
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Offline rivka

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Re: Dear Expert
« Reply #501 on: June 07, 2012, 12:11:42 PM »
True. But someone needs to take care of this one too, you know?
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Offline Tante Shvester

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Re: Dear Expert
« Reply #502 on: June 07, 2012, 12:53:19 PM »
Absolutely!  Carry on with the good work!
Fighting thread drift with guilt, reverse psychology, and chicken soup.
Sweet! Law of Moses loopholes! -- Anneke
I love Bones.  -- Sweet Clementine
She grew on him like she was a colony of E. coli and he was room-temperature Canadian beef. -- anonymous

Offline Ela

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Re: Dear Expert
« Reply #503 on: June 12, 2012, 09:21:23 AM »
Latin names of an organism (genus/species): Italicized or not?

Home sapiens.

Home sapiens.

The latter looks right to me and is what I'm used to seeing, but web sources don't agree on whether these names should be italicized or not.


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Offline rivka

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Re: Dear Expert
« Reply #504 on: June 12, 2012, 09:25:09 AM »
I was taught to italicize Latin species names.
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Offline Ela

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Re: Dear Expert
« Reply #505 on: June 12, 2012, 09:29:46 AM »
Me, too, but I want to see what Jonathon says. :)


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Offline Tante Shvester

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Re: Dear Expert
« Reply #506 on: June 12, 2012, 09:33:55 AM »
Home sapiens.

Don't get out much anymore.
Fighting thread drift with guilt, reverse psychology, and chicken soup.
Sweet! Law of Moses loopholes! -- Anneke
I love Bones.  -- Sweet Clementine
She grew on him like she was a colony of E. coli and he was room-temperature Canadian beef. -- anonymous

Offline Jonathon

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Re: Dear Expert
« Reply #507 on: June 12, 2012, 09:47:12 AM »
Italicize. From Chicago:

Quote
Whether in lists or in running text, the Latin names of species of plants and animals are italicized. Each binomial contains a genus name (or generic name), which is capitalized, and a species name (also called specific name or specific epithet), which is lowercased (even if it is a proper adjective). Do not confuse these names with phyla, orders, and such, which are not italicized.
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Offline Ela

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Re: Dear Expert
« Reply #508 on: June 12, 2012, 10:17:37 AM »
Thanks! That's exactly the information I needed!

If it's just the genus name (eg Lactobacillus) I'm assuming that would also be italicized?


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Offline Jonathon

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Re: Dear Expert
« Reply #509 on: June 12, 2012, 10:25:20 AM »
It doesn't explicitly say from what I can see, but it does give some examples with just a genus name, which is italicized. For example:

Quote
The Pleistocene saber-toothed cats all belonged to the genus Smilodon.
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Offline Ela

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Re: Dear Expert
« Reply #510 on: June 12, 2012, 10:27:33 AM »
Yeah, that's what I would expect, based on what I learned.

Thanks, again!


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Offline Tante Shvester

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Re: Dear Expert
« Reply #511 on: June 12, 2012, 02:44:57 PM »
It's called "italics", I suppose, because things in Italy tend to lean over to one side.  Like that tower in Pisa.
Fighting thread drift with guilt, reverse psychology, and chicken soup.
Sweet! Law of Moses loopholes! -- Anneke
I love Bones.  -- Sweet Clementine
She grew on him like she was a colony of E. coli and he was room-temperature Canadian beef. -- anonymous

Offline Jonathon

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Re: Dear Expert
« Reply #512 on: June 12, 2012, 02:56:40 PM »
Or maybe it's a type form that was developed in Italy. :p
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Offline BlackBlade

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Re: Dear Expert
« Reply #513 on: June 12, 2012, 05:19:12 PM »
How can you write Latin in italics? Italian is a Latin based language!
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Offline Tante Shvester

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Re: Dear Expert
« Reply #514 on: June 13, 2012, 08:51:03 AM »
Or maybe it's a type form that was developed in Italy. :p

I believe that the original typesetting was done in a shop located in the Tower of Pisa.  It looked perfectly straight when they set it, but once they took it outside, they realized it was all slanted over to the right.  Instead of starting over, they just brazened it out and pretended that they meant to do it that way.

Or so it's been said.
Fighting thread drift with guilt, reverse psychology, and chicken soup.
Sweet! Law of Moses loopholes! -- Anneke
I love Bones.  -- Sweet Clementine
She grew on him like she was a colony of E. coli and he was room-temperature Canadian beef. -- anonymous

Offline Annie Subjunctive

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Re: Dear Expert
« Reply #515 on: June 22, 2012, 04:21:04 PM »
What's the etymological connection between pet the verb and pet the noun? Why do we pet our pets?
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Offline Jonathon

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Re: Dear Expert
« Reply #516 on: June 22, 2012, 04:37:36 PM »
The noun pet developed a verbal sense "to treat as a pet" in the 1600s. By the 1800s this has evolved into "to stroke". That's apparently all there is to it.
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Offline rivka

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Re: Dear Expert
« Reply #517 on: July 13, 2012, 12:03:04 AM »
Leaving aside the spelling of "bated breath", how accurate is this?


That is, do all those phrases truly have Shakespeare as their origin, or did he popularize and help preserve existing phrases? Or are some of these clearly from before his day and in common use after, and no reason to believe he had anything to do with it?

Setting teeth on edge come from Ezekiel, for instance. But what about the others?

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Offline fugu13

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Re: Dear Expert
« Reply #518 on: July 13, 2012, 11:51:28 AM »
I don't think we can really know in any particular case, but there's a lot of evidence he actively tried to coin new words and phrases, so I could definitely believe that he was the first to use a number of those.

For instance, there are a huge number of words that, as far as we know, Shakespeare was either the first to use or the first to use in a particular sense: http://thinkonmywords.com/additional/p161.html has a thorough breakdown of a good number of them. Now, a lot of them are variants on words already in use in other languages, but it's still pretty darn impressive, and a number of them are unusual portmanteaus he could well have coined.

And we do have a good number of written sources from around the time, including people who liked to use vernacular, so if a phrase were in common use before him, there's a decent chance we'd run into it.

So yeah, I'm pretty confident he's at the very least the person who introduced many of those phrases into widespread usage, and likely the very first user for a number of them.

Offline dkw

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Re: Dear Expert
« Reply #519 on: July 13, 2012, 04:46:19 PM »
My children would like to know why "says" is not pronounced with a long "a".

Offline BlackBlade

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Re: Dear Expert
« Reply #520 on: July 13, 2012, 05:15:13 PM »
Sounds like an accent thing. We certainly use the long A sound in the words "say" and "saying".

But it drops off again with the word "said". How odd.
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Offline Jonathon

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Re: Dear Expert
« Reply #521 on: July 13, 2012, 08:02:33 PM »
I'll have to tackle the Shakespeare question later, but I agree with fugu. There's a good chance that he either coined or popularized many of those phrases, though of course there's always the chance that someone else used them first and we just don't have a record of it.

Here's the deal with says and said. Very common words tend to change their pronunciation faster than other words, so a word like say is more likely to change than a phonologically similar but less frequent word like pay. One of the main ways in which frequent words change is in reduction of vowels, which can mean shortening, laxing, and destressing. Said has a short, lax vowel, while say has a long, tense vowel (well, technically a diphthong, but that's irrelevant).

So why would said and says get reduced vowels while say and saying don't? Because they have coda consonants, and this makes them phonologically heavier. Originally they had the long, tense vowel plus the consonant at the end, which gives them the structure CVVC (consonant–long vowel–consonant) (because long vowels count for two). Normally this is fine, but super-frequent words don't like being so heavy, so they drop the extra vowel weight and become CVC. But say is just CVV, which isn't heavy enough to trigger reduction.

Does that make sense? More importantly, would that make sense to a six-year-old and a four-year-old? ;)
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Offline pooka

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Re: Dear Expert
« Reply #522 on: July 13, 2012, 08:51:49 PM »
I read up on Shakespeare and the Great Bible a few years ago.  Though few of those particular phrases sound biblical to my ear.  I can't remember how I got on the subject, if it started with criticisms I've heard about Joseph Smith plagiarizing Shakespeare or ended there. 
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Offline Amilia

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Re: Dear Expert
« Reply #523 on: July 14, 2012, 10:42:59 AM »

Offline dkw

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Re: Dear Expert
« Reply #524 on: July 16, 2012, 05:44:50 PM »
Does that make sense? More importantly, would that make sense to a six-year-old and a four-year-old? ;)

It seems to have satisfied them.  Thanks.