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Author Topic: Word and phrase misuse  (Read 24492 times)

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Offline BlackBlade

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Re: Word and phrase misuse
« Reply #100 on: April 07, 2014, 09:05:15 PM »
But even "um" is not lazy. It's a signal to whoever you're speaking to that you're pausing to think of a response.
Which I think is a lazy way of talking because the alternative is to speak slower and more calculatingly. It actually takes effort to slow down a conversation and form full sentences than it does to just say whatever comes to mind and use "um" and "like" and "totally" as filler words to buy you time to continue with your narrative.
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Offline rivka

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Re: Word and phrase misuse
« Reply #101 on: April 07, 2014, 09:08:07 PM »
But even "um" is not lazy. It's a signal to whoever you're speaking to that you're pausing to think of a response.
Which I think is a lazy way of talking because the alternative is to speak slower and more calculatingly. It actually takes effort to slow down a conversation and form full sentences than it does to just say whatever comes to mind and use "um" and "like" and "totally" as filler words to buy you time to continue with your narrative.
Yes, exactly.
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Offline Jonathon

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Re: Word and phrase misuse
« Reply #102 on: April 07, 2014, 09:26:46 PM »
No, using um IS slowing down and taking the time to form full sentences. Or at least it can be and often is.
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Offline BlackBlade

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Re: Word and phrase misuse
« Reply #103 on: April 07, 2014, 09:33:52 PM »
No, using um IS slowing down and taking the time to form full sentences. Or at least it can be and often is.
Maybe I'm creating a false dichotomy.

The act of just unleashing your words without planning them first is not a lazy way to talk in the sense that it takes the least quantity of effort. Obviously that requires more work because you are trying to keep up with high velocity communication. When you've set a pace that's too fast for yourself you use filler words. You can't possibly keep up, so you need to stall for time without permitting a pause.

Some people genuinely are worried a pause will lead to the other person jumping in. But I think most people are terrified of silence because we aren't used to it. It's not how we are trained to speak.

When you take presentation classes however this way of speaking is completely inappropriate. Filler words are lazy in the sense that it's what people are used to so they try to fall back on it. The amount of effort to force yourself to control your pace of speech and construct good sentences and refrain from using a filler word is I think in the balance harder to do, at least until it becomes a habit, then of course it takes less effort.

edit: So I guess I see filler words not as a means to form full sentences, but rather to let your mind move further ahead while your mouth stalls for time. What you should be doing is form a full sentence first, and then as you talk speak as fast (or as slow) as you need to let your mind stay on top of things. Sprint to the edge of your prepared notes and your brain stops preparing and just says things as they come, and the result is lazy speech in that it's thoughtless.
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Offline rivka

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Re: Word and phrase misuse
« Reply #104 on: April 07, 2014, 10:02:45 PM »
Or at least it can be and often is.
Perhaps. IME, with teenagers using "like" as filler and substitute, it's almost always laziness. And the article I linked (as opposed to the one he linked to) is targeting teenagers.
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Offline Brinestone

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Re: Word and phrase misuse
« Reply #105 on: April 08, 2014, 06:29:50 AM »
Mr. McWhorter perfectly described how I use like and totally. I'm not sure how teenagers use them, but I was a teenager when the like craze started, so I remember adults criticizing the usage. I remember trying to stop, but not really wanting to because like served a purpose, and eliminating it left my sentences meaning something different than I intended.
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Offline Jonathon

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Re: Word and phrase misuse
« Reply #106 on: April 08, 2014, 08:52:01 PM »
Perhaps. IME, with teenagers using "like" as filler and substitute, it's almost always laziness.

You know that this is something that professional academics have studied, right? McWhorter isn't just pulling this out of his butt.

The act of just unleashing your words without planning them first is not a lazy way to talk in the sense that it takes the least quantity of effort. Obviously that requires more work because you are trying to keep up with high velocity communication. When you've set a pace that's too fast for yourself you use filler words. You can't possibly keep up, so you need to stall for time without permitting a pause.

Some people genuinely are worried a pause will lead to the other person jumping in. But I think most people are terrified of silence because we aren't used to it. It's not how we are trained to speak.

When you take presentation classes however this way of speaking is completely inappropriate. Filler words are lazy in the sense that it's what people are used to so they try to fall back on it. The amount of effort to force yourself to control your pace of speech and construct good sentences and refrain from using a filler word is I think in the balance harder to do, at least until it becomes a habit, then of course it takes less effort.

edit: So I guess I see filler words not as a means to form full sentences, but rather to let your mind move further ahead while your mouth stalls for time. What you should be doing is form a full sentence first, and then as you talk speak as fast (or as slow) as you need to let your mind stay on top of things. Sprint to the edge of your prepared notes and your brain stops preparing and just says things as they come, and the result is lazy speech in that it's thoughtless.

I don't think so-called filler words really have that much to do with being terrified of silence of being worried about someone else jumping in. It's usually just a way to signal that you're going to respond but don't have a response yet, because it can be weird or even rude to just sit there silently when someone is expecting a response.

Sure, it takes effort to train yourself not to use those words and to compose well-thought-out replies on the fly, but that doesn't make the alternative lazy. And yes, it's inappropriate to speak that way in certain settings, but that's a social construct, just as it's a social construct to hate whatever it is kids now days are doing.
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Offline BlackBlade

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Re: Word and phrase misuse
« Reply #107 on: April 08, 2014, 09:47:35 PM »
I don't hate it because kids nowadays are doing it. I've caught myself doing it, but I feel it's really no different than going, "um..." which nobody says enhances your speech or is valid in copious amounts.
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Offline Tante Shvester

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Re: Word and phrase misuse
« Reply #108 on: April 09, 2014, 08:01:07 AM »
Someone I know, a professor, never uses fillers like "um" or "like".  His sentences are always carefully planned, his words carefully chosen, even in the most casual of conversations.  He speaks very slowly and deliberately, and, to my ear, it is stilted and irritating.  Not all speech is better because it is proper and formal.
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Offline rivka

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Re: Word and phrase misuse
« Reply #109 on: April 09, 2014, 09:05:22 AM »
You know that this is something that professional academics have studied, right? McWhorter isn't just pulling this out of his butt.
Yes. That doesn't necessarily make it so.
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Offline Brinestone

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Re: Word and phrase misuse
« Reply #110 on: April 09, 2014, 10:24:28 AM »
What would necessarily make it so, out of curiosity?
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Offline rivka

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Re: Word and phrase misuse
« Reply #111 on: April 09, 2014, 12:51:09 PM »
You know, when the two of you tag team me, it makes me regret having replied to the previous comment. It does not actually make me any more likely to continue the discussion.
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Offline Jonathon

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Re: Word and phrase misuse
« Reply #112 on: April 09, 2014, 03:22:02 PM »
I know this is going to sound rude, but I haven't gotten the feeling that you're interested in discussion on this.
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Offline rivka

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Re: Word and phrase misuse
« Reply #113 on: April 09, 2014, 06:05:57 PM »
Fair enough.
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Offline BlackBlade

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Re: Word and phrase misuse
« Reply #114 on: April 09, 2014, 06:24:36 PM »
Kyrgyzstan, is the homeland of the Kyrgyzs, a people best known for cheating at Scrabble. -Tante Shvester

What, you expected us to be badly injured or dead, and flying blind to boot? You're the one who told us all to be Awesome. -Brinestone

Offline Ela

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Re: Word and phrase misuse
« Reply #115 on: April 13, 2014, 10:09:53 AM »
It is me or is posting a "lactation consultant job position" redundundant?

What's the difference between a "job" and a "position"? And why would you use both words in one phrase?

I would say either "lactation consultant job" or "lactation consultant position."


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Offline Jonathon

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Re: Word and phrase misuse
« Reply #116 on: April 13, 2014, 02:51:14 PM »
Yeah, that sounds redundant to me too.

Also, I don't know if "redundundant" was an accident or not, but it seems apt. ;)
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Offline Ela

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Re: Word and phrase misuse
« Reply #117 on: April 13, 2014, 04:01:47 PM »
Redundunant was meant to be a joke. :p


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Offline Jonathon

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Re: Word and phrase misuse
« Reply #118 on: April 13, 2014, 04:10:15 PM »
Well, it made me laugh.
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Offline Ela

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Re: Word and phrase misuse
« Reply #119 on: April 13, 2014, 09:14:22 PM »
Yay.  ;D


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Offline pooka

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Re: Word and phrase misuse
« Reply #120 on: April 27, 2014, 06:28:52 PM »
I used "like" and "totally" because they were presented in the media as making you cool, back in the mid 80's.  I don't know if it was a conscious choice, though.  I think I just mimicked people I wanted to be like. 
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Offline Sputnik

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Re: Word and phrase misuse
« Reply #121 on: October 12, 2014, 08:09:42 PM »
Have you ever heard of the department of redundancy department?  I've heard it's the most stupidest office that I've heard of!

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Re: Word and phrase misuse
« Reply #123 on: October 23, 2014, 01:37:28 PM »
If they'd said "memorant" there would have at least been some kind of symmetry to it.
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