AAVE, aka Ebonics and school teachers

[Belle]

The professor that teaches linguistic anthropology asked me to stay after class Friday.  turns out that one of areas of interest is African American Vernacular English, also called "Ebonics" and he wanted to know what I thought about the debate between whether AAVE is a separate language or just a dialect of English.  He was interested in my opinion not because of my beauty and brilliance, (though those should have been factors) but because he knew I was working toward becoming an English teacher.

He said, and I quote: "It's criminal that we don't train teachers in the grammar and structure of AAVE.  If you're teaching black kids, you should know the basics of AAVE."

What do you guys think?  First, do you think it should be treated as a second language or as another dialect of English?  And, do you think that we should train teachers in AAVE so they can better relate to and teach black students?

I'm not trying to start a topic without giving my opinion, honestly I'm still formulating one.  I don't know much about AAVE, beyond what the media brouhaha over Ebonics in the Oakland school system reported, and from my reading of more scholarly sources, the media didn't get things quite right.  So I'm reading and studying and thought I might get the thoughts of some of you guys who've much more experience in linguistic study than me.  

[Tante Shvester]

I think it would be a tremendous disservice to the kids if they were educated to believe that Ebonics is a valid mode of discourse in the professional and business world.  Not being comfortable writing and conversing in Standard English is a huge handicap.

Ebonics is fine for the street or at home, where it can be your home dialect or second language, but it does not belong in the classroom.  It certainly will put them at a disadvantage when pursuing higher education, or, you know, work.

[JT]

Considering that I've always had the impression that 'ebonics' sprung into being as a way to keep oneself from being understood by the man, I doubt learning it, speaking it, or teaching it in school would do any good other than force the 'dialect' to further adapt.

It's slang.  Anyone who makes the conscious decision to make communication that difficult for them will get what they deserve.

It's like the people who have giant and multiple facial piercings.  "Well, no, I'm not gonna hire you.  Why?  Because you look like you fell down a flight of stairs carrying a tacklebox, that's why."

[Jonathon]

Belle isn't talking about teaching the kids AAVE or teaching them that it's as acceptable as standard American English; she's talking about teaching teachers.

From what I know of AAVE, I would call it a dialect, not a separate language. I'm really not sure how it would help teachers to know its grammar, though. Is it an issue of teachers simply not understanding their students, or does your professor think that teachers need more in-depth knowledge of AAVE?

[pooka]

I never decided how I felt about this either.  I think it's good for teachers to be aware of it, because they wouldn't (hopefully) penalize someone for having a foreign accent.  I don't think grammar is "deeper" than an accent.  Accents actually show more resistance   to standardization that grammatical anomalies.  I suppose there is the rare case where a kid doesn't know verb tenses other than Ebonics.  I mean, some people can conjugate "thou" very easily, and some people can't no matter how many prayers they hear and how much KJV Bible they read.  

There was a quote apparently from an apostle in a recent lesson we had criticizing missionaries who aren't able to conjugate "thou".  It really upset me, because not knowing archaic grammar doesn't mean you don't love God.  

[kojabu]

When we learned about it in Ling 101 for all of a day, it was treated as a dialect.  

[Mr. Anderson]

I think using ebonics to communicate with students is a step backwards.  Whether you teach it to them or not, it still gives them the impression that it's okay to use in all different areas of society.

[pooka]

Heaven forbid we try to get white teachers to speak it.  It's more a matter of letting teachers know that downgrading people for talking that way is like downgrading them because of the clothes they wear.  My opinion they need to use their standard English in writing, because if they really don't know standard English... I think they need a special remedial class.  That may be some people's worst nightmare.  But the other choice is to just give them bad grades and perpetuate the cycle of distrust.