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Author Topic: I hate journalistic writing  (Read 95333 times)

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Offline rivka

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Re: I hate journalistic writing
« Reply #475 on: December 22, 2011, 07:32:22 PM »
Although I see no reference to the second baby in that one.
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Offline Jonathon

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Re: I hate journalistic writing
« Reply #476 on: December 22, 2011, 07:39:51 PM »
True, but it got all the other important points.
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Offline rivka

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Re: I hate journalistic writing
« Reply #477 on: December 22, 2011, 09:11:37 PM »
True. Arguably, that was the main point of the first article, which seemed to assume everyone already knew about baby #1. Stupid assumption, of course.
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Offline Jonathon

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Re: I hate journalistic writing
« Reply #478 on: December 22, 2011, 10:13:52 PM »
Lots of articles seem to make that kind of assumption. I frequently find myself lost when an article assumes you already know all the previous facts and just introduces a few new ones. Then I have to decide whether it's worth my time to track down an older article that will give me the beginning of the story.
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Offline rivka

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Re: I hate journalistic writing
« Reply #479 on: December 22, 2011, 10:31:25 PM »
Lots of articles seem to make that kind of assumption.
The better ones at least link to the earlier articles, but yeah, PITA.
"Sometimes you need a weirdo to tell you that things have gotten weird. Your normal friends, neighbors, and coworkers won’t tell you."
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Offline rivka

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Re: I hate journalistic writing
« Reply #480 on: December 28, 2011, 10:49:47 PM »
Third time's the charm? This one is definitely better.
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Oklahoma baby is 3rd sickened by rare bacteria
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Offline Marianne Dashwood

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Re: I hate journalistic writing
« Reply #481 on: December 29, 2011, 05:14:23 AM »
How many babies have to suffer just so we learn to write well? ;)
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Offline rivka

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Re: I hate journalistic writing
« Reply #482 on: December 29, 2011, 07:54:20 AM »
I knew someone was going to go there.
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Offline BlackBlade

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Re: I hate journalistic writing
« Reply #483 on: January 26, 2012, 03:12:10 PM »
Why Evangelicals Don't Like Mormons.

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it’s important to consider the often antagonistic skepticism that many evangelicals have of Mr. Romney’s brand of Protestantism: Mormonism.
Protestantism? I have never heard of Mormonism referred to as a protestant sect. The label does not reasonably fit Mormonisms origins or doctrine.

Also, Romney's Mormonism is an issue because Evangelicals are jealous of our growth? Please. If nothing else, it's because Evangelicals are more aware (even if they may be more mistaken in some cases) now of our Mormonism's distinctive beliefs.
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Offline Marianne Dashwood

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Re: I hate journalistic writing
« Reply #484 on: January 26, 2012, 03:47:06 PM »
It's not protestant, but I'm OK with the article phrasing it that way. It makes sense in the way they recount it. But I would have said "Mr. Romney's brand of Christianity." We've actually got just as much in common with Catholics and Orthodox Christians as we do with Protestants.
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Offline Marianne Dashwood

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Re: I hate journalistic writing
« Reply #485 on: January 26, 2012, 03:47:44 PM »
Also, I would like to report that the most recent issue of National Geographic used the word temblor. I may have to resign myself to fate.
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Offline rivka

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Re: I hate journalistic writing
« Reply #486 on: January 26, 2012, 04:00:51 PM »
Protestantism? I have never heard of Mormonism referred to as a protestant sect.
That surprises me. Not that you disagree with the label; that you haven't heard it before.
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Offline BlackBlade

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Re: I hate journalistic writing
« Reply #487 on: January 26, 2012, 04:18:54 PM »
Protestantism? I have never heard of Mormonism referred to as a protestant sect.
That surprises me. Not that you disagree with the label; that you haven't heard it before.
My protestant school certainly didn't classify us under the label.
Kyrgyzstan, is the homeland of the Kyrgyzs, a people best known for cheating at Scrabble. -Tante Shvester

What, you expected us to be badly injured or dead, and flying blind to boot? You're the one who told us all to be Awesome. -Brinestone

Offline rivka

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Re: I hate journalistic writing
« Reply #488 on: January 26, 2012, 04:21:25 PM »
"Sometimes you need a weirdo to tell you that things have gotten weird. Your normal friends, neighbors, and coworkers won’t tell you."
-Aaron Kunin

Offline BlackBlade

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Re: I hate journalistic writing
« Reply #489 on: January 26, 2012, 04:28:37 PM »
Virtually all those hits if they give an answer say no. The one yes I got at a glance was a Mormon arguing we are protestant.

Maybe I'm just unique, but I've never heard it, even from the less intelligent.
Kyrgyzstan, is the homeland of the Kyrgyzs, a people best known for cheating at Scrabble. -Tante Shvester

What, you expected us to be badly injured or dead, and flying blind to boot? You're the one who told us all to be Awesome. -Brinestone

Offline Jonathon

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Re: I hate journalistic writing
« Reply #490 on: January 26, 2012, 04:35:48 PM »
I've heard it, but I disagree with the characterization.
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Offline Tante Shvester

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Fighting thread drift with guilt, reverse psychology, and chicken soup.
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Offline rivka

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Re: I hate journalistic writing
« Reply #492 on: January 26, 2012, 05:29:06 PM »
I've heard it, but I disagree with the characterization.
I don't agree with it either. But I'm pretty sure it was my vague understanding as a teenager -- that there's the Catholics, and everyone else is Protestants. Of the latter, lots and lots of subgroups. Mormons were in there, somewhere or other. (And the main reason I even knew about Mormons at all was OSC.)

I didn't come to that understanding in a vacuum, and from conversations with other non-Christians (and some Catholics, actually), it's not an uncommon perception.

I'm not saying it's accurate. Just that it's common.
"Sometimes you need a weirdo to tell you that things have gotten weird. Your normal friends, neighbors, and coworkers won’t tell you."
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Offline Jonathon

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Re: I hate journalistic writing
« Reply #493 on: January 26, 2012, 05:32:58 PM »
*nods*
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Offline Marianne Dashwood

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Offline pooka

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Re: I hate journalistic writing
« Reply #495 on: January 27, 2012, 08:47:37 PM »
I'd classify Mormonism as restorationist.  I believe Protestantism holds that Catholicism is in need of reform, not fundamentally broken.  Though I don't know that many Protestant sects are dedicated to said reform.  It's confusing.  It seems like there was some kind of summit about 5 years ago clarifying the relationship of grace and works.
"From each according to his ability, to each according to his work."  Comte de Saint-Simon

Offline pooka

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Re: I hate journalistic writing
« Reply #496 on: January 27, 2012, 08:59:53 PM »
I watched an A&E Biography of the Kellogg brother on Netflix.  It was an interesting confluence of those articles.
"From each according to his ability, to each according to his work."  Comte de Saint-Simon

Offline BlackBlade

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Re: I hate journalistic writing
« Reply #497 on: January 30, 2012, 04:35:04 PM »
An editorial in the WP about Mormonism and it being in need of reform. I probably should just leave it alone, but I'm still fuming about it. Part of me does feel real sadness if their case was indeed handled that way, but there's another skeptical part of me that is dubious, as his descriptions of my faith do not fit in many places with my own. Specifically the treatment of ex-mormons.
Kyrgyzstan, is the homeland of the Kyrgyzs, a people best known for cheating at Scrabble. -Tante Shvester

What, you expected us to be badly injured or dead, and flying blind to boot? You're the one who told us all to be Awesome. -Brinestone

Offline pooka

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Re: I hate journalistic writing
« Reply #498 on: January 31, 2012, 08:45:15 AM »
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The church I was raised in values unquestioning obedience over critical thinking.
False.  The doctrine is that critical thinking is necessary to obtaining spiritual guidance.  I'm not great with scripture cites, but the one about Oliver Cowdery wanting to help translate the Book of Mormon is cited all the time.  I do think people who are not intuitive decision makers can struggle with this concept.  They either don't see it as a valid way to make decisions, or they may be constituting the inflexible elements in the church that alienate others.

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But I struggled after realizing that Mormonism’s claims about anthropology, history and other subjects contradict reason and science.
  It may be that this person is just older than me, but the church does not hold to specific interpretations of such fields.  This person's experience may lack the salting of fact I got as an adolescent, that archaeology seldom supports a "Panama as narrow neck of land, Missississippi as River Sidon" geography.  My mother told me a few wacky things over the years, but I'm pretty grateful she majored in Anthropology while I was growing up.

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It also stifles efforts to openly question church pronouncements, labeling such behavior as satanic.
Uh, What?  Satanic maybe in a particularly Mormon sense of just another spirit child of God who was consumed by hubris.  But no, we don't think they need to be exorcised.  Pfft.

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Critics of Mormonism include geneticists, Egyptologists and even the Smithsonian Institution
  I'm glad to know the author still feels reverence for something in this world.  I was starting to thing she was just a general purpose iconoclast.

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For example, mainstream Mormons banned polygamy in 1890 to obtain Utah’s statehood, but they continue to perform temple ceremonies that “seal” one man to multiple women in the hereafter.
  Way to compress a very complex subject into a really misleading sentence.  Case in point would be a man can be sealed to each wife he was married to in this life where a prior wife died.  President Hinckley's father had 3 wives who died.  All will be sealed to him.  It is not the church's practice to just let me get sealed to women for the purpose of being polygamists in the afterlife.  The only way this woman's nightmare scenario was likely is if she were contemplating marrying a widower, or if she is so jealous she is afraid her husband might marry someone after she herself dies.  And there is a sect of Mormonism dedicated to this exact problem, so... what?

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Those whose spouses leave the church are sometimes encouraged to get divorced and remarry a faithful Latter-day Saint.
  Wow.  I'm not saying it never happened, but I think it's pretty tacky, and it goes directly against Paul's counsel.

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Many gay Mormons have been driven to suicide, deeply conflicted about whether acting on their sexuality is, as the church teaches, a sin.
  This is sad, but it's also true of gay Catholics, Jews, Baptists, any other sect that holds to the scriptures as the word of God and believe that God has the authority to issue suggestions on moral behavior. 

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Mormonism needs a Luther of its own.
  We had one.  Joseph Smith's wife Emma.  The Community of Christ (formerly RLDS) already has democratic governorship and a "nuanced" relationship with the historical record (that is, their assertion that Joseph Smith never taught polygamy has not borne scrutiny, and they have gotten over it.) 

Mormons do need to learn to be charitable toward others, especially ex-Mormons (for whatever reason.)  I had an experience last summer of running into a recent apostate with my impressionable children in tow, but I think they can more easily deal with a few ideas than if I had depersonalized them in order to dismiss their ideas.  I hope, anyway.

"From each according to his ability, to each according to his work."  Comte de Saint-Simon

Offline pooka

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Re: I hate journalistic writing
« Reply #499 on: January 31, 2012, 09:55:25 AM »
I think a lot of what happened in this case is the person didn't attend a lot of church once they got out of the youth program (certainly likely if they hit the skids when they got to college).  That would certainly produce a very different view of Mormonism from what you've experienced, one where obedience is valued over gaining personal experience, and one where the church's main function is to give people social validation and where the most important consequence of straying is the withholding of that.  

It is something that distresses me about the youth program, but I guess the chance that someone slips between the cracks between youth and adulthood as a reason to make the youth program tougher doesn't make sense.  It's why young men are expected to go on missions and young women are hoped to marry or go on missions.  People for whom none of these happen do face long odds on a relationship with the church as a functional adult.  

My visiting teachers talked about this last week, about how to bridge the Young Women and Relief Society experiences.  (One of them has a daughter who is a senior and she hopes she'll get on the bus when she goes away to a student ward.)  Part of the problem is that there are almost no younger women in our Relief Society.  I feel like a kid in there, and I'm over 40.  Most of the non elderly are in primary and young women.  Some of the elderly are as well, and I think that could be part of "grafting" the older generation to the younger. 
"From each according to his ability, to each according to his work."  Comte de Saint-Simon