Author Topic: The random etymology of the day (Read 237853 times)

Jonathon · « **Reply #850 on:** January 12, 2009, 03:16:59 PM »

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Can a man be a virgin . . . ?

Yes. I'm not sure what that has to do with etymology, though.

Neutros the Radioactive Dragon · « **Reply #851 on:** January 12, 2009, 03:19:53 PM »

The Genuine · « **Reply #852 on:** January 12, 2009, 06:30:26 PM »

I think it's because on some level I equate etymological origins with tradition.

These days people seem to throw the term "virgin" around quite loosely. It was being discussed at Sake that these days one can even "revirginate" oneself, and idea I find ridiculous.

So I got to wondering if the traditional meaning of the word applied to both genders.

Jonathon · « **Reply #853 on:** January 12, 2009, 06:41:16 PM »

The OED has quotations meaning "unmarried or chaste maiden or woman" dating to around 1200 and quotations meaning "A person of either sex remaining in a state of chastity" from about 1300. It looks like there are more meanings that specifically refer to women, so I'd say that it has been used more often for women, though I couldn't guess at the ratio of female:male referents.

The Latin word virgo meant 'maiden', but I don't know if the reflexes in modern Romance languages refer only to women. Maybe it was being used to refer to men in Old French when it was borrowed into English, or maybe English speakers broadened the sense by themselves.

Tante Shvester · « **Reply #854 on:** January 12, 2009, 08:37:26 PM »

It can also mean "never been used" like virgin olive oil, virgin wool, and a virgin forest. It can also mean a non-alcoholic version of an alcoholic drink.

"I'd like a virgin martini."

"You mean an olive in a glass of air?"

"Shaken, please."

The Genuine · « **Reply #855 on:** January 12, 2009, 08:47:25 PM »

Tante, I am pleased that you too don't roll with the vermouth.

Tante Shvester · « **Reply #856 on:** January 12, 2009, 08:59:20 PM »

I have no idea what that means.

What does that mean?

Nighthawk · « **Reply #857 on:** January 13, 2009, 01:29:36 AM »

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It can also mean "never been used" like virgin olive oil...

Perhaps this isn't the thread to discuss it, but I'm frequently confused by the term "Extra Virgin Olive Oil". What, "virgin" doesn't sufficiently qualify it?

I mean, I put that phrase alongside the term "almost pregnant". There's no gray area there; you either are, or not.

And, on a semi-related note, I have heard someone once ask for a "virgin Cuba Libre"... I'm wondering if the bartender charged them eight dollars for a Coke.

Tante Shvester · « **Reply #858 on:** January 13, 2009, 02:07:54 AM »

I suspect that they made up the "extra virgin" moniker because it sounds so ultra-special. I know that I'll always shell out extra dollars for the extra virgin olive oil because it sounds so special.

I don't think there's anything else in the whole supermarket with such a special title.

Nighthawk · « **Reply #859 on:** January 13, 2009, 07:16:48 AM »

I guess it's not called "Super Ultra Mega Virgin Olive Oil" because people would expect it to transform in to a robot then...?

rivka · « **Reply #860 on:** January 13, 2009, 07:30:58 AM »

The two terms have clearly defined meanings.

Ela · « **Reply #861 on:** January 13, 2009, 08:00:49 AM »

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I suspect that they made up the "extra virgin" moniker because it sounds so ultra-special. I know that I'll always shell out extra dollars for the extra virgin olive oil because it sounds so special.

I don't think there's anything else in the whole supermarket with such a special title.

My husband likes to jokingly call the other kinds of olive oil "extra-promiscuous."

Tante Shvester · « **Reply #862 on:** January 13, 2009, 08:03:30 AM »

Your husband cracks me the heck up. I keep thinking about the oils getting all greased up and well, you know.

Annie Subjunctive · « **Reply #863 on:** January 13, 2009, 08:14:23 AM »

One of my favorite things is to go out to breakfast at Perkin's and order a virgin screwdriver.

"I'm sorry, we don't serve alcohol here."

"That's OK. I'll just have an orange juice."

The Genuine · « **Reply #864 on:** January 13, 2009, 08:54:11 AM »

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I have no idea what that means.

What does that mean?

I have no idea either. But don't spoil your spirit with vermouth.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Rivka, your article references judging. Who's the olive oil judge? (I want that job.)

Jonathon · « **Reply #865 on:** January 13, 2009, 01:07:05 PM »

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The two terms have clearly defined meanings.

Psh. You think you can come here with your "facts" and your "definitions" and win an argument. Well, not on my watch!

rivka · « **Reply #866 on:** January 13, 2009, 10:45:56 PM »

Drat! Thought I could slip that one by you.

Jonathon · « **Reply #867 on:** January 16, 2009, 09:09:01 AM »

I just learned that the word safe is related to the word Greek word holo, as in hologram. Safe comes from the Norman French sauf, meaning "healthy" or "whole", which goes back to the Latin salvus, whence come words like salutary and salvation. This comes from the Proto-Indo-European form *solwo.

In Greek this became holo. The change from s to h was a regular thing in Greek; compare the Latin/Greek pairs sex and hex, sept and hept, semi and hemi. Holo simply meant "whole" or "entire" in Greek and apparently did not acquire the "healthy" senses as the Latin form did.

Semantic drift is always interesting, I think, because two related words can end up in such different and unpredictable places just by taking incremental steps away from each other.

The Genuine · « **Reply #868 on:** January 17, 2009, 11:55:53 AM »

Interesting. Thanks!

Porter · « **Reply #869 on:** January 19, 2009, 07:24:42 PM »

Tragedy

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The word's origin is Greek trag?idi? (Classical Greek ??) contracted from trag(o)-aoidi? = "goat song" from tragos = "goat" and aeidein = "to sing".

Are there any other English words which come from tragos? Possibly troglodyte?

rivka · « **Reply #870 on:** January 19, 2009, 07:34:59 PM »

Goats sing?

The Genuine · « **Reply #871 on:** January 19, 2009, 07:41:41 PM »

Man, someone around here really loves goats, don't they.

Jonathon · « **Reply #872 on:** January 19, 2009, 07:50:32 PM »

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Tragedy

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The word's origin is Greek trag?idi? (Classical Greek ??) contracted from trag(o)-aoidi? = "goat song" from tragos = "goat" and aeidein = "to sing".

Are there any other English words which come from tragos? Possibly troglodyte?

There are other words, but I don't know of any that are very common. I don't know of a good way to look for them, either. The best I could find is tragus, the little bump right in front of the opening to the ear canal. Troglodyte comes from different roots and basically means "cave dweller".

Tante Shvester · « **Reply #873 on:** January 19, 2009, 08:51:24 PM »

Have you ever heard goats trying to sing? Tragic indeed.

goofy · « **Reply #874 on:** January 21, 2009, 07:12:26 PM »

Wow.

rhapsody is from rhaptein "to sew" + aeidein "to sing".