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English & Linguistics / Word Usage Pet peeve
« on: October 11, 2005, 09:40:37 PM »
Oh no! An extra syllable! It's the end of educated English as we know it!
*dies*
*dies*
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English & Linguistics / Word Usage Pet peeve
« on: October 11, 2005, 10:10:25 AM »
It could be that English speakers, not knowing Latin, have incorrectly formed the plural. I don't know enough Latin to say.
Dude, it's an interjection, not a vocative noun.
Dude, it's an interjection, not a vocative noun.
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English & Linguistics / Word Usage Pet peeve
« on: October 11, 2005, 10:07:26 AM »
Syllabuses or syllabi.
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English & Linguistics / Word Usage Pet peeve
« on: October 11, 2005, 10:06:33 AM »
Dude, don't answer my joke with facts.
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English & Linguistics / Word Usage Pet peeve
« on: October 11, 2005, 09:58:28 AM »
If it was, wouldn't it still be alive?
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English & Linguistics / Word Usage Pet peeve
« on: October 11, 2005, 09:54:17 AM »Quote
There were two people in my meeting this morning who kept saying processes as if it were a Latin plural (PRAH-sess-EEZ). I have no idea why they were doing it, but it bugged the heck out of me. Why are people so obsessed with Latin plurals, even when we have perfectly acceptable English ones?Because we're taught all our lives that Latin is the best language.
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English & Linguistics / Words that you can never, ever say right
« on: August 19, 2005, 07:53:03 AM »Quote
You know, the reason a Webster's dictionary is remarkable is because it is based on usage instead of classical etymology.And yet Merriam-Webster's doesn't have the "man-ayz" pronunciation. Someone's been slacking!
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English & Linguistics / Words that you can never, ever say right
« on: August 19, 2005, 07:52:28 AM »Quote
It's where you swallow the "t" in mountain and replace it with a glottal stop. It's actually pretty common throughout the country, and most people do it to some degree or another. Even those that mock ignorant Utahns for doing it more than they do.I thought we figured the difference was whether the glottal stop was followed by a syllabic n or followed by a vowel and then n.
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English & Linguistics / Words that you can never, ever say right
« on: August 18, 2005, 08:43:03 PM »
Oh, it's definitely an accent. It's just not specifically a regional accent. It's a regional accent used by a certain class of young girls in Utah. I don't know if it exists in Salt Lake, but I've definitely heard it in Provo and Orem.
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English & Linguistics / Words that you can never, ever say right
« on: August 18, 2005, 08:32:33 PM »
Accents aren't just determined by where you're from. They're also determined by socioeconomic status, race, gender, education, the accents of your parents and peers, and whatever affectations you may have.
I've lived most of my life in Utah, and I'm pretty open and forgiving when it comes to accents, but the one she's describing still manages to grate on my ears. (It's not just a southern Utah accent, by the way.)
I've lived most of my life in Utah, and I'm pretty open and forgiving when it comes to accents, but the one she's describing still manages to grate on my ears. (It's not just a southern Utah accent, by the way.)
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English & Linguistics / Words that you can never, ever say right
« on: August 18, 2005, 08:01:37 PM »
Oh, sure, Porter deletes his post and leaves mine hanging there.
I guess I assumed it was your wife. I couldn't remember your wife's name, but I saw that pattyshmack was a neb.
I have to admit that all those pronunciations bug me, but especially the last one. It's bad enough to pronounce a g that shouldn't be pronounced, but then to turn it into a k . . . *shudder*
I guess I assumed it was your wife. I couldn't remember your wife's name, but I saw that pattyshmack was a neb.
I have to admit that all those pronunciations bug me, but especially the last one. It's bad enough to pronounce a g that shouldn't be pronounced, but then to turn it into a k . . . *shudder*
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English & Linguistics / Words that you can never, ever say right
« on: August 18, 2005, 06:50:35 PM »
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English & Linguistics / Words that you can never, ever say right
« on: August 15, 2005, 11:04:07 AM »
If you want to side with the majority of American English speakers, go with the schwa pronuncations. However, both are regarded as correct, and I don't think there's any sort of regional distinction.
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English & Linguistics / Words that you can never, ever say right
« on: August 15, 2005, 10:57:44 AM »
Both.
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English & Linguistics / Grammar Questions
« on: March 02, 2005, 03:41:41 PM »
Yeah, I meant the vicious circle quote. I saw a few episodes of Sports Night, and I remember it being pretty good.
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English & Linguistics / Pronunciation question
« on: March 02, 2005, 12:16:52 PM »
But which two syllables? That's the question.
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English & Linguistics / Pronunciation question
« on: March 02, 2005, 11:18:37 AM »
That was my reaction too, Mack.
Remind me where you're from, AJ. Somewhere in the Midwest?
Remind me where you're from, AJ. Somewhere in the Midwest?
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English & Linguistics / Grammar Questions
« on: March 02, 2005, 11:17:01 AM »
What's that quote from, Porter?
And actually, I meant that I have a big graphics file containing all the buttons and emoticons and stuff, and it's all chopped up into slices and layers.
And actually, I meant that I have a big graphics file containing all the buttons and emoticons and stuff, and it's all chopped up into slices and layers.
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English & Linguistics / Grammar Questions
« on: March 02, 2005, 09:49:35 AM »
Don't worry about trying to edit them; I have a big graphics package thing for the board (complete with layers and transparency and whatnot).
Quote
Actually, as I already noted, my motivation is that it sounds like butt to me.I can accept that answer. I just think that the objection most people have is that it's rare in America. Well, it's probably only rare because it's edited out and sometimes stigmatized (with the rationale that it's a Briticism). Then people can say, "See? It's rare in America," even though it's artificially rare. It's just a vicious cycle.
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English & Linguistics / Grammar Questions
« on: March 02, 2005, 09:21:38 AM »
Whoa. Look what I missed while making my long post. Excellent critiques, Porter. I think I agree with you on pretty much everything. Maybe I should start editing emoticons tonight.
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English & Linguistics / Grammar Questions
« on: March 02, 2005, 09:18:15 AM »
The s on towards is the same ending that's found on a lot of other adjectives and adverbs (amongst, amidst, whilst, against, days, nights, needs, hence, since, once, twice . . . ).
And here's what the OED says:
And here's what the OED says:
Quote
In English the history of -wards as an advb. suffix is identical with that of -ward (see -WARD 3 and 4); beside every adv. in -ward there has always existed (at least potentially) a parallel formation in -wards, and vice versa. The two forms are so nearly synonymous (the general sense of the advs. being ‘in the direction indicated by the first element of the compound’) that the choice between them is mostly determined by some notion of euphony in the particular context; some persons, apparently, have a fixed preference for the one or the other form. Sometimes, however, the difference in the form of the suffix corresponds to a difference in the shade of meaning conveyed, though it would not be possible to give any general rule that would be universally accepted. Where the meaning to be expressed includes the notion of manner as well as direction of movement, -wards is required, as in ‘to walk backwards’, ‘to write backwards’. In other instances the distinction seems to be that -wards is used when the adv. is meant to express a definite direction in contrast with other directions: thus we say ‘it is moving forwards if it is moving at all’, but ‘to come forward’, not ‘forwards’ (see further the note on FORWARD adv.); so ‘to travel eastward’ expresses generally the notion of travelling in the direction of an eastern goal, ‘to travel eastwards’ implies that the direction is thought of as contrasted with other possible directions. Hence -wards seems to have an air of precision which has caused it to be avoided in poetical use.To me, it seems silly to call it incorrect. It has cognates in German, Dutch, and Gothic (though Gothic is dead). That means it goes back probably two thousand years or more. It seems to me that the only real motivation for calling it incorrect is so that we can legitimize our language by claiming that it's more correct than British English.
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English & Linguistics / Grammar Questions
« on: March 02, 2005, 08:55:50 AM »
I really believe that language is ultimately a personal thing, and I think fashion is a pretty good analogy. People can tell you what's in style and what's out of style, or what looks good on you and what looks bad on you, but it's really up to you to decide what to wear. And even though those fashion experts may have pretty reasonable arguments, it's not like there's any sort of objective, universal law of fashion that those arguments are based on. I can give you my educated opinion on language, but in the end, that's all it really is.
Edit: I really don't like it either. Nathan once described it as "confused and uncomfortable." One of these days I'll get around to editing it.
Edit: I really don't like it either. Nathan once described it as "confused and uncomfortable." One of these days I'll get around to editing it.
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English & Linguistics / Grammar Questions
« on: March 02, 2005, 08:38:05 AM »
I try to base my rules on education and common sense. When you take the time to look into the issue, you discover that there's really nothing wrong with towards; it just happens to be less common in America and more common in Britain, so then people go too far and edit it out in America. Most people who edit it out or call it incorrect don't really understand the whole issue, which is why I argue against those people.
But with phenomena, educated people know that it's the plural form. For the purposes of this quiz, that's what it is. And if you want your writing to sound educated, you should probably follow that rule.
The underlying problem is that about half of the rules are decent, logical rules, and the other half are myth and superstition. Hence my schizophrenia.
But with phenomena, educated people know that it's the plural form. For the purposes of this quiz, that's what it is. And if you want your writing to sound educated, you should probably follow that rule.
The underlying problem is that about half of the rules are decent, logical rules, and the other half are myth and superstition. Hence my schizophrenia.
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