Author Topic: Fraternization with the enemy (Read 3529 times)

Porter · « **on:** September 26, 2004, 12:19:59 PM »

Most of the times that I hear the term "fraternization with the enemy", it is referring to having sex with the enemy (like James bond does in like every movie).

Why is it called fraternizaiton? Unless I'm way off, fraternization comes from the word for brother. Isn't fraternizaion treating somebody like a brother? It's this a pretty weird word to use to describe having sex with the enemy?

I was just wondering about that, and I figured I'd ask.

Annie Subjunctive · « **Reply #1 on:** September 26, 2004, 03:32:33 PM »

I think it's acquired that connotation through use as a euphemism. Fraternizing itself has nothing to do with sexual behavior.

Jonathon · « **Reply #2 on:** September 26, 2004, 04:18:24 PM »

Yeah, it sounds like a simple shift in meaning. Treating them like a brother -> treating them like a friend -> treating them like more than a friend.

Porter · « **Reply #3 on:** September 27, 2004, 08:33:38 AM »

Maybe it's because I never went to a college with fraternities, but most usages of the word fraternization that I hear are in the term "fraternization with the enemy", which is almost always used to mean sex. :dontknow:

Porter · « **Reply #4 on:** September 27, 2004, 04:10:38 PM »

From the Online Etymology Dictionary:

Quote

Fraternize is attested from 1611, "to sympathize as brothers;" sense of "cultivate friendship with enemy troops" is from 1897; used oddly by World War II armed forces to mean "have sex with women from enemy countries."

They think it's odd too.

Jonathon · « **Reply #5 on:** September 27, 2004, 04:17:30 PM »

That's the thing about shifts in meaning—they're often odd and illogical, especially when the word is a foreign borrowing whose meaning isn't readily apparent. If the word were brotherize, I don't think anyone would use it to mean "to have sex with women from enemy countries."

pooka · « **Reply #6 on:** September 27, 2004, 05:41:24 PM »

In the 1001 Nights, "converse" is used as a euphemism for sex. I think it has more to do with the need to talk around the word "sex" than it does the words from many sources that are put to that use. And of course fraternities aren't related.

Though maybe "fraternite" in the motto of the French Revolution could be another reason. You're an American in Europe and you hear "liberte, egalite, fraternite" and you know what the first two mean, leaving you to guess about the third. And they are French...

Jonathon · « **Reply #7 on:** September 27, 2004, 05:51:13 PM »

I really doubt it's a problem in translation or something like that, because the word existed in English before it came to mean that. I think it's just a simple (but still odd) meaning extension.

Annie Subjunctive · « **Reply #8 on:** September 27, 2004, 08:31:56 PM »

Quote

You're an American in Europe and you hear "liberte, egalite, fraternite" and you know what the first two mean, leaving you to guess about the third. And they are French...

Um... brotherly love? Is it really construed differently?

pooka · « **Reply #9 on:** September 28, 2004, 07:57:23 AM »

The whole point is that people do use it to mean eros and not philos.

Annie Subjunctive · « **Reply #10 on:** September 28, 2004, 08:45:24 AM »

I don't think these people are French people.

Jonathon · « **Reply #11 on:** September 28, 2004, 09:43:00 AM »

I think I'm kind of missing the French connection.

Annie Subjunctive · « **Reply #12 on:** September 28, 2004, 10:17:15 AM »

Someday you'll find it.

Brinestone · « **Reply #13 on:** September 28, 2004, 10:18:57 AM »

And here I was about to ask why "Rainbow Connection" just got in my head.

*sings* ". . . the lovers, the dreamers, and me."