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Author Topic: Dear Expert  (Read 151816 times)

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Offline Brinestone

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Re: Dear Expert
« Reply #675 on: July 31, 2013, 07:02:09 AM »
Okay, I see different variations of this all the time, and I realized I don't know which is actually correct. Is it:

if worse comes to worst
if worst comes to worst
if worse comes to worse

?

My gut says the first one.
Ephemerality is not binary. -Porter

Offline rivka

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Re: Dear Expert
« Reply #676 on: July 31, 2013, 09:33:29 AM »
"Sometimes you need a weirdo to tell you that things have gotten weird. Your normal friends, neighbors, and coworkers won’t tell you."
-Aaron Kunin

Offline dkw

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Re: Dear Expert
« Reply #677 on: July 31, 2013, 10:09:52 AM »
I think it's the last one.  But I will now read rivka's link to find out if I'm right.

Offline dkw

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Re: Dear Expert
« Reply #678 on: July 31, 2013, 10:13:00 AM »
Wait, I might have meant the second one.

<saying it over and over>  Yeah, I meant the second one. Now I will read the link.

Offline BlackBlade

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Re: Dear Expert
« Reply #679 on: August 02, 2013, 11:09:49 AM »
I've always said, "Worse comes to worst."

I always felt it meant, "Should the situation get worse, and on a sliding scale of worse it makes it all the way to the other side (worst) then we will do the following."

I don't see how "worst comes to worst" makes any sense.

Kyrgyzstan, is the homeland of the Kyrgyzs, a people best known for cheating at Scrabble. -Tante Shvester

What, you expected us to be badly injured or dead, and flying blind to boot? You're the one who told us all to be Awesome. -Brinestone

Offline Annie Subjunctive

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Re: Dear Expert
« Reply #680 on: August 05, 2013, 11:57:25 AM »
Am I using comprise ok here? Is there a better word?

Quote
The teaching of English as a foreign language (EFL) in East Asia is a widespread and complex effort, comprising a variety of motivations, goals and approaches.
"It is true, however, that the opposite of Little Rock, Arkansas is Boulder, Colorado." - Tante

Offline Jonathon

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Re: Dear Expert
« Reply #681 on: August 05, 2013, 12:42:40 PM »
Yes, that's right. "Embracing" or "including" would also work, I think.
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Offline pooka

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Re: Dear Expert
« Reply #682 on: August 05, 2013, 02:20:19 PM »
"Worse comes to worst" would be my preference.  Because it's a comparative bad becoming a superlative bad.

I don't quite like comprising in that context, since for me a list comprising a thing should be exhaustive.  I'll go see if there's any justification for that.  

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/comprise
I don't know, if you want to defend the "compose" sense of comprise, you might want to use a cite from someone other than Jimmy Carter.  I know he was a very intelligent man, but he also said "nucular".  He cultivated a southern, rural persona.
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Offline Jonathon

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Re: Dear Expert
« Reply #683 on: August 08, 2013, 10:01:49 AM »
Okay, I see different variations of this all the time, and I realized I don't know which is actually correct. Is it:

if worse comes to worst
if worst comes to worst
if worse comes to worse

?

My gut says the first one.

A lot of people's guts say the first one, because it sounds like a situation moving from bad to worse. I still don't quite understand the logic or syntax of the original, but apparently it was "if the worst come to the worst", meaning essentially, "if the worst should come to pass". Ben Zimmer wrote about it in the NY Times "On Language" column a couple years back: link.
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Offline Annie Subjunctive

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Re: Dear Expert
« Reply #684 on: August 08, 2013, 03:05:43 PM »
I guess I'm the only weirdo who was totally sure it was "worse comes to worse."
"It is true, however, that the opposite of Little Rock, Arkansas is Boulder, Colorado." - Tante

Offline Jonathon

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Re: Dear Expert
« Reply #685 on: August 08, 2013, 03:14:21 PM »
Yes. We shall now shun you.
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Offline BlackBlade

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Re: Dear Expert
« Reply #686 on: August 08, 2013, 04:43:01 PM »
Or worse comes to worst we'll kill you. ;)
Kyrgyzstan, is the homeland of the Kyrgyzs, a people best known for cheating at Scrabble. -Tante Shvester

What, you expected us to be badly injured or dead, and flying blind to boot? You're the one who told us all to be Awesome. -Brinestone

Offline Tante Shvester

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Re: Dear Expert
« Reply #687 on: August 08, 2013, 09:18:21 PM »
I guess I'm the only weirdo who was totally sure it was "worse comes to worse."

Shvester!
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Offline rivka

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Re: Dear Expert
« Reply #688 on: August 08, 2013, 10:58:56 PM »
My invisibility cloak is working!
"Sometimes you need a weirdo to tell you that things have gotten weird. Your normal friends, neighbors, and coworkers won’t tell you."
-Aaron Kunin

Offline BlackBlade

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Re: Dear Expert
« Reply #689 on: August 25, 2013, 11:39:05 AM »
So I was in a class and we were putting together an email. The writer started double spacing after a period, and I pointed out that that was not necessary, as we no longer use typewriters, so single space is now standard. This other guy in class told me I was wrong, and in fact double spacing is proper.

Later, in the same email, the writer wrote a sentence with the word "and" in the middle, and I felt like a comma would be appropriate. The same other person responded that a comma was not necessary before "and", and then went on to say I really don't know anything about writing. We'll ignore the cheekiness, as well as the single space rule. But are there circumstance where "and" does not have to be preceded by a comma? I feel like maybe you have already addressed this.
Kyrgyzstan, is the homeland of the Kyrgyzs, a people best known for cheating at Scrabble. -Tante Shvester

What, you expected us to be badly injured or dead, and flying blind to boot? You're the one who told us all to be Awesome. -Brinestone

Offline rivka

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Re: Dear Expert
« Reply #690 on: August 25, 2013, 12:28:18 PM »
Keep fighting the good fight! Proper use of the serial comma is a sign of intelligence and good breeding. Then again, it makes sense that a double-spacing throwback would also ignore the necessity for a serial comma.

Both are style choices. Does your school have its own official style guide? Many do. Or perhaps it follows the APA or another published guide? Either way, if your school has an official policy, you should be following it for these sorts of things.

Links in favor of using the serial comma:
http://www.quickanddirtytips.com/education/grammar/serial-comma?page=all
http://grammar.about.com/od/grammarfaq/f/QAoxfordcomma.htm
http://www.dailywritingtips.com/the-rationale-for-the-serial-comma/
http://www.getitwriteonline.com/archive/052709serialcomma.htm
http://blog.apastyle.org/apastyle/2011/04/using-serial-commas.html
"Sometimes you need a weirdo to tell you that things have gotten weird. Your normal friends, neighbors, and coworkers won’t tell you."
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Offline dkw

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Re: Dear Expert
« Reply #691 on: August 25, 2013, 01:08:24 PM »
But are there circumstance where "and" does not have to be preceded by a comma? I feel like maybe you have already addressed this.

Are you talking about a list of things, in which case rivka is right on about the serial comma, or some other type of sentence? There are certainly circumstances where "and" doesn't have to be proceeded by a comma. 

Offline BlackBlade

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Re: Dear Expert
« Reply #692 on: August 25, 2013, 01:13:00 PM »
No I definitely believe in the serial comma.

I can't remember the words we were considering verbatim, but I'll try to approximate them.

"I am an MBA candidate at Harvard University, and would like to request your help on a project I am heading."

"I am an MBA candidate, and would like to request your help on a project I am heading."

"I am an MBA candidate, and graduate of Harvard University, which is why I am writing you."

I feel like all three need a comma before "and". But I'm actually having a hard time coming up with any sentence where a comma would be not necessary or even wrong before "and".
Kyrgyzstan, is the homeland of the Kyrgyzs, a people best known for cheating at Scrabble. -Tante Shvester

What, you expected us to be badly injured or dead, and flying blind to boot? You're the one who told us all to be Awesome. -Brinestone

Offline rivka

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Re: Dear Expert
« Reply #693 on: August 25, 2013, 02:12:52 PM »
I don't think any of those three especially need commas.
"Sometimes you need a weirdo to tell you that things have gotten weird. Your normal friends, neighbors, and coworkers won’t tell you."
-Aaron Kunin

Offline dkw

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Re: Dear Expert
« Reply #694 on: August 25, 2013, 02:38:28 PM »
I would take out all three of those commas.

Offline BlackBlade

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Re: Dear Expert
« Reply #695 on: August 25, 2013, 02:43:01 PM »
Hmmmm. Maybe I use too many commas then.
Kyrgyzstan, is the homeland of the Kyrgyzs, a people best known for cheating at Scrabble. -Tante Shvester

What, you expected us to be badly injured or dead, and flying blind to boot? You're the one who told us all to be Awesome. -Brinestone

Offline Jonathon

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Re: Dear Expert
« Reply #696 on: August 25, 2013, 03:42:41 PM »
You should have a comma before "and" if it's joining two independent clauses (clauses that each have a subject and verb). Those all have one subject and two verbs, so most style guides would say they shouldn't have a comma.
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Offline BlackBlade

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Re: Dear Expert
« Reply #697 on: August 25, 2013, 04:24:33 PM »
Thanks. :)
Kyrgyzstan, is the homeland of the Kyrgyzs, a people best known for cheating at Scrabble. -Tante Shvester

What, you expected us to be badly injured or dead, and flying blind to boot? You're the one who told us all to be Awesome. -Brinestone

Offline Annie Subjunctive

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Re: Dear Expert
« Reply #698 on: August 25, 2013, 04:52:43 PM »
So I was in a class and we were putting together an email. The writer started double spacing after a period, and I pointed out that that was not necessary, as we no longer use typewriters, so single space is now standard. This other guy in class told me I was wrong, and in fact double spacing is proper.

Later, in the same email, the writer wrote a sentence with the word "and" in the middle, and I felt like a comma would be appropriate. The same other person responded that a comma was not necessary before "and", and then went on to say I really don't know anything about writing. We'll ignore the cheekiness, as well as the single space rule. But are there circumstance where "and" does not have to be preceded by a comma? I feel like maybe you have already addressed this.

If you can pardon the slight language, this should solve all your questions rather well. ;)
"It is true, however, that the opposite of Little Rock, Arkansas is Boulder, Colorado." - Tante

Offline Amilia

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Re: Dear Expert
« Reply #699 on: September 03, 2013, 09:14:32 PM »
Are Japan and Nippon different names for the same place, or are they just different transliterations of the same name?