GalacticCactus Forum

Poll

Is this sentence in the active or passive voice?

Active
4 (26.7%)
Passive
11 (73.3%)

Total Members Voted: 15

Author Topic: Quick quiz  (Read 5971 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Online Jonathon

  • Evil T-Rex
  • Administrator
  • Übermember
  • *****
  • Posts: 24,649
  • This is the darkest timeline
    • View Profile
    • GalacticCactus
Quick quiz
« on: March 11, 2005, 01:16:11 PM »
The sentence is "The subject is not being acted on."
You underestimate my ability to take things seriously!

Offline Brinestone

  • Nerdkins
  • Super Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 6,232
    • View Profile
Quick quiz
« Reply #1 on: March 11, 2005, 02:11:03 PM »
Do we get a prize if we get it right?
Ephemerality is not binary. -Porter

Offline Lady Montagu

  • Super Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2,769
    • View Profile
Quick quiz
« Reply #2 on: March 11, 2005, 02:15:25 PM »
I want to change my vote.

No matter what, it's a terrible sentence.  
Yes, Heaven is thine; but this is a world of sweets and sours;
Our flowers are merely–flowers,
And the shadow of thy perfect bliss is the sunshine of ours.

"Ah... you'll have quite a bit of this. Atmospheric disturbance. Still, it'll pass. Everything does."

Online Jonathon

  • Evil T-Rex
  • Administrator
  • Übermember
  • *****
  • Posts: 24,649
  • This is the darkest timeline
    • View Profile
    • GalacticCactus
Quick quiz
« Reply #3 on: March 11, 2005, 02:22:16 PM »
If you get it right, you get the satisfaction of knowing that you know more than the staff member from Chicago who answered my email today.  :P

Actually, I just wanted to see how well people understand the difference between active and passive voice in non-simple verb conjugations. I know it's a terrible sentence, but that's not the point.


So that's a change from passive to active, Kat?
« Last Edit: March 11, 2005, 02:22:58 PM by Jon Boy »
You underestimate my ability to take things seriously!

Offline Jaiden

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 11
    • View Profile
Quick quiz
« Reply #4 on: March 12, 2005, 06:14:34 PM »
Can you tell us the difference after you're done your poll?
I'm clueless towards anything language related  :huh:

Online Jonathon

  • Evil T-Rex
  • Administrator
  • Übermember
  • *****
  • Posts: 24,649
  • This is the darkest timeline
    • View Profile
    • GalacticCactus
Quick quiz
« Reply #5 on: March 12, 2005, 08:04:26 PM »
Yeah, I'll explain when it's over.
You underestimate my ability to take things seriously!

Offline Annie Subjunctive

  • Hausfrau
  • Übermember
  • *****
  • Posts: 10,921
    • View Profile
Quick quiz
« Reply #6 on: March 13, 2005, 01:27:20 PM »
At first, I thought "this sentence" meant the question itself. I was totally confused as to what tricky thing I was supposed to discover.
"It is true, however, that the opposite of Little Rock, Arkansas is Boulder, Colorado." - Tante

Offline Porter

  • ruining funny with facts
  • Übermember
  • *****
  • Posts: 22,329
  • long time lurker, first time poster
    • View Profile
Quick quiz
« Reply #7 on: March 13, 2005, 03:32:18 PM »
So did I.  I kept thinking of the statement "This statement is false."
« Last Edit: March 13, 2005, 03:32:33 PM by mr_porteiro_head »
Tomorrow Poster
Sooner or later, this forum is going to max out on hyperliteralness.

Online Jonathon

  • Evil T-Rex
  • Administrator
  • Übermember
  • *****
  • Posts: 24,649
  • This is the darkest timeline
    • View Profile
    • GalacticCactus
Quick quiz
« Reply #8 on: March 14, 2005, 11:29:37 AM »
Sorry about that. I hope I didn't throw anybody off too much.


The correct answer is passive.

The passive is formed when the past participle (the form of the verb that usually goes with have, as in "have kicked," "have eaten," and so on) is joined with a form of be (like "was kicked," "is being eaten," and so on). This has the effect of flipping the subject and object around.

I kicked the ball.

The ball was kicked by me.

Students are often told to avoid the passive like the plague because it can lead to weak, awkward writing. However, there are legitimate uses for the passive—I used it in the last sentence ("students are told") because the students are the important part, not the person doing the telling (compare it to "Teachers often tell students . . .").

The reason for all this is that there's a very gross error concerning the passive voice in The Chicago Manual of Style. Section 5.113 states, "If an inflected form of to be is joined with the verb's present participle, a progressive conjugation is produced {the ox is pulling the cart}. The progressive conjugation is in active voice because the subject is performing the action, not being acted on" (emphasis added).

It's inaccurate to say that progressive constructions are always active, especially since the author uses a passive progressive construction at the end of the paragraph. So I e-mailed Chicago about it, and this is the response I got:
Quote
Yes, I think perhaps you are misunderstanding the point here. Section 5.113 seeks to prevent an inaccurate extension of 5.112, which states that "the passive voice is always formed by joining an inflected form of to be (or, in colloquial usage, to get) with the verb's past participle." In 5.113, CMS points out that phrases like "the subject is not being acted on," which might look passive, are actually constructed with a present participle, rather than a past participle, and are active in voice. (Note that the subject--the word "subject"--is performing the action of not being; this is active, not passive.)

Thank you for writing--
Staff
The section in the manual is confusing and somewhat inaccurate, but the staff's defense of it is just flat-out wrong. They say that it's constructed with a present participle, not a past participle, but it has both. Then they say that it's the subject of not being, but they leave out the past participle again—it's really the object of not being acted on.

So if you got the answer right, congratulations: you officially know more about the passive voice than the staff members at The Chicago Manual of Style.
You underestimate my ability to take things seriously!

Offline Patrick

  • Evil Master Patrick the Great
  • Super Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,775
  • Smoother than a fresh jar of Skippy.
    • View Profile
Quick quiz
« Reply #9 on: March 14, 2005, 11:30:57 AM »
I needed another option.. like...

Who gives a crap.  
Semper ubi sub ubi

Offline Porter

  • ruining funny with facts
  • Übermember
  • *****
  • Posts: 22,329
  • long time lurker, first time poster
    • View Profile
Quick quiz
« Reply #10 on: March 14, 2005, 11:34:46 AM »
The answer to your original question seemed obvious, but I don't understand anything in that last post of yours, JB.
Tomorrow Poster
Sooner or later, this forum is going to max out on hyperliteralness.

Online Jonathon

  • Evil T-Rex
  • Administrator
  • Übermember
  • *****
  • Posts: 24,649
  • This is the darkest timeline
    • View Profile
    • GalacticCactus
Quick quiz
« Reply #11 on: March 14, 2005, 11:38:53 AM »
Like, "You used too many technical terms that I don't know," or like "You can't write your way out of a paper bag, Jon Boy"? Hopefully it's the former.
You underestimate my ability to take things seriously!

Offline Brinestone

  • Nerdkins
  • Super Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 6,232
    • View Profile
Quick quiz
« Reply #12 on: March 14, 2005, 11:41:15 AM »
To Chicago:  :P  :P  :P  
Ephemerality is not binary. -Porter

Offline Porter

  • ruining funny with facts
  • Übermember
  • *****
  • Posts: 22,329
  • long time lurker, first time poster
    • View Profile
Quick quiz
« Reply #13 on: March 14, 2005, 11:46:42 AM »
more like "Jon and Chicago used lots of technical terms that I didn't understand".
Tomorrow Poster
Sooner or later, this forum is going to max out on hyperliteralness.

Offline sarcasticmuppet

  • Muppet Treasure Island
  • Super Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 3,196
    • View Profile
Quick quiz
« Reply #14 on: March 14, 2005, 11:54:48 AM »
Tough technical terms were used by Jon Boy and Chicago. :P  
You know, I think I'd make a great Queen of England.  --Porter

Offline Brinestone

  • Nerdkins
  • Super Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 6,232
    • View Profile
Quick quiz
« Reply #15 on: March 14, 2005, 11:58:43 AM »
Let's see if I can help at all.

passive = be + past participle

inflected = not infinitive (in this instance), so inflected forms of to be are is, am, are, was, were, being, been

present participle = -ing verb (going, eating, sleeping)

past participle = form of verb usually used with have (have gone, have eaten, have slept)

progressive: A sentence that is progressive has a present participle in it. So, Lucy is watching her favorite soap opera is progressive because of is watching.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2005, 11:59:12 AM by Brinestone »
Ephemerality is not binary. -Porter

Offline Kama

  • Veteran Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 196
    • View Profile
Quick quiz
« Reply #16 on: March 14, 2005, 12:21:02 PM »
good to know I didn't spend 5 years at university for nothin.

Offline Annie Subjunctive

  • Hausfrau
  • Übermember
  • *****
  • Posts: 10,921
    • View Profile
Quick quiz
« Reply #17 on: March 14, 2005, 01:14:10 PM »
I suggest writing them back and saying "Do not go up against Jon Boy in a grammar war when death is on the line!"
"It is true, however, that the opposite of Little Rock, Arkansas is Boulder, Colorado." - Tante

Online Jonathon

  • Evil T-Rex
  • Administrator
  • Übermember
  • *****
  • Posts: 24,649
  • This is the darkest timeline
    • View Profile
    • GalacticCactus
Quick quiz
« Reply #18 on: March 14, 2005, 02:37:12 PM »
Except that they really don't seem to realize that it's wrong. Here's what I wrote back:
Quote
I'm sorry, but "is being acted on" is definitely in the passive voice. Compare it to constructions like "is acted on," "has been acted on," "will be acted on," and so on. It contains a form of "to be" ("being") plus a past participle ("acted").

Thus, in that sentence, "subject" is the patient (or object) of the verb phrase "is being acted on (by something)." The implied "by something" is the true agent (or subject) of the verb. As a further example, this site (http://owl.english.purdue.edu/handouts/grammar/g_passive.html) has a chart showing all passive forms with their corresponding active forms (including progressive constructions).

This is why I was wondering about 5.113. It is simply inaccurate and misleading to say that progressive constructions cannot be used with the passive voice.
And here's their response:
Quote
Well, I've done my best to defend Mr. Garner's take on the subject, but I'll be happy to add your letter to our file of suggested corrections and additions to CMS. If you wish to explore this question further, you might take the matter up with experts at grammar Web sites and help pages. Meanwhile, please write us again if you have a question about Chicago style.   --Staff
It's like he's not even considering the possibility that Garner is wrong. And then he tells me to go ask some experts for help! Gah!
« Last Edit: March 14, 2005, 07:47:11 PM by Jon Boy »
You underestimate my ability to take things seriously!

Offline Kama

  • Veteran Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 196
    • View Profile
Quick quiz
« Reply #19 on: March 15, 2005, 04:34:49 AM »
ask as many experts as you possibly can, then copy all their responses and send them to Chicago.

 

Offline Brinestone

  • Nerdkins
  • Super Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 6,232
    • View Profile
Quick quiz
« Reply #20 on: March 15, 2005, 08:39:41 AM »
You know, that just might work. :pirate:  
Ephemerality is not binary. -Porter

Online Jonathon

  • Evil T-Rex
  • Administrator
  • Übermember
  • *****
  • Posts: 24,649
  • This is the darkest timeline
    • View Profile
    • GalacticCactus
Quick quiz
« Reply #21 on: March 15, 2005, 09:10:01 AM »
:lol:

I think I'll do that.
You underestimate my ability to take things seriously!

Offline Pepe the Inamimated

  • Dragons
  • Veteran Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 127
    • View Profile
Quick quiz
« Reply #22 on: March 22, 2005, 05:23:35 PM »
I was confuzzled the same way Annie was. >_<
"Living in Utah you'll have to grin and bear it,
'cause we loike our Jell-O green with shredded carrot."

Moosebutter, "Jell-O"

Offline Sheila

  • Super Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,525
    • View Profile
Quick quiz
« Reply #23 on: March 23, 2005, 12:51:56 PM »
Yay! I got it right! All I had to do was think, "would I write this sentence? hmmm, yes I would. then it must be passive."
Don't dilly-dally. Threaten to take off your pants.
-Porter

Online Jonathon

  • Evil T-Rex
  • Administrator
  • Übermember
  • *****
  • Posts: 24,649
  • This is the darkest timeline
    • View Profile
    • GalacticCactus
Quick quiz
« Reply #24 on: March 23, 2005, 01:13:32 PM »
:lol: You sciency types are all alike.
You underestimate my ability to take things seriously!