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Author Topic: Deconstructing Chomsky  (Read 2428 times)

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Offline pooka

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Deconstructing Chomsky
« on: September 24, 2010, 06:38:34 AM »
So after reading Annie's paper, last night I had this delightful dream that I was back at the U of U to be honored for something (don't remember what, maybe I made a sizeable donation to the alumni club), and my two favorite linguistics professors attended (though because they were there, none of the rest of the department was.)  And I was talking to them a little bit about how the young linguists today deconstruct Chomsky.  I wasn't able to say it quite like that, because it was a dream and none of my words really worked, but I was able to think about it when I woke up. 

As I explained to Annie in my comments on the paper, it's totally backwards to associate Chomsky with the Grammar Translation methods.  They were what preceded him in linguistic understanding.  Chomsky's assertion of the Language Acquisition Device was actually the cause of immersion language learning, that we have innate capacities to absorb language if we are only exposed to it.  Of course, it hasn't been shown to really work out ideally, especially with people older than 2.

And since Chomsky didn't turn out to be completely right, it probably galls anyone else who's ever gone for a Ph.D. in Linguistics that he is so prominent in the history of 20th century linguistics.  And Chomsky has done a lot of damage to his reputation with his own celebrity.  But I was taught by people who were young when he was actually still producing, and in my dream I could remember how exciting it used to be. 

I also understand now how children learn or don't learn a thing like swimming.  They have to keep moving through phases of challenge, trust, and competence to overcome thresholds of panic in multiple skills.  I don't know if it really is like language in the end.  I do know you will never teach a child something they do not have a desire to learn, and that is why we send them to school, so they can learn the stuff parents lack the resources to spark a desire for.  So I don't know if it's possible to model educational language acquisition on infant language acquisition. 

The thing I think is interesting, when we look at a process like creolization which was Chomsky's most persuasive evidence for the LAD, was how the grammatical holes in pidgins were filled in a way that was eventually consistent throughout the community.  I think it is because a language does not exist solely in the mind of one child, but in usage in a community of speakers.  But there we get into the kind of theoretical nonsense that was being abandoned when I was looking at whether to go to grad school. 

Perhaps the value of CLT (which I can't remember what it means, but it's something post immersion that Annie was writing about) should be to provide the community of speakers for the speaker to develop in.  In this instance, a large class size could be a benefit and not a liability.  We do not just acquire the language, it acquires us or some nonsense like that. 
"From each according to his ability, to each according to his work."  Comte de Saint-Simon

Offline Annie Subjunctive

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Re: Deconstructing Chomsky
« Reply #1 on: September 24, 2010, 08:21:28 AM »
The biggest advantage of CLT is that it's finally gotten past the 100% L1 or 100% L2 nonsense and said "let's teach students so they understand."

Is it deconstructing?

All the ChomskyIsWrong rhetoric I've been soaked in is courtesy of the BYU Linguistics department. I don't actually know anything of my own accord, I just regurgitate my psycholinguistics prof. She was awesome though.
"It is true, however, that the opposite of Little Rock, Arkansas is Boulder, Colorado." - Tante

Offline Annie Subjunctive

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Re: Deconstructing Chomsky
« Reply #2 on: September 24, 2010, 08:22:34 AM »
Also, I had a delightful dream last night. It was an infomercial for a self-help book. "Tired of dealing with the stress and chaos of your social circles? Try being a social square."

I'm secretly a little proud that my subconscious comes up with atrocious puns.
"It is true, however, that the opposite of Little Rock, Arkansas is Boulder, Colorado." - Tante

Offline pooka

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Re: Deconstructing Chomsky
« Reply #3 on: September 24, 2010, 11:21:03 AM »
:lol:

I was telling my husband about how BYU linguistics is anti-Chomsky and BYU music was anti-Mozart, and trying to draw generalizations about BYU being hostile to mysterious, emotional chaos, but my husband wasn't buying it.  And I don't know that all linguists these days are anti-Chomsky.  The shift from theoretical linguistics to applied linguistics is something I kind of failed to articulate.
"From each according to his ability, to each according to his work."  Comte de Saint-Simon

Offline Brinestone

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Re: Deconstructing Chomsky
« Reply #4 on: September 24, 2010, 11:56:11 AM »
Why on earth would BYU music be anti-Mozart? And what evidence do you have of that? It just seems so random.
Ephemerality is not binary. -Porter

Offline BlackBlade

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Re: Deconstructing Chomsky
« Reply #5 on: September 24, 2010, 12:25:04 PM »
One of the girls from my program who is a linguistics major at Yale said that that Chomsky whenever he writes something, gets everybody's attention, and then just a few years later writes more papers about how he made mistakes, which everybody reads again.  She finished with the idea that for linguistics to be able to continue as a science, he by necessity needs to die.
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Offline pooka

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Re: Deconstructing Chomsky
« Reply #6 on: September 25, 2010, 03:19:19 AM »
My sister was in music at BYU and said Mozart was emotional and chaotic.  I suppose it may have been her personally. 

As far as I know, Chomsky has always stuck to one idea, that language is connected to some actual structure inside the brain.  There are Brokaw's area and Wernicke's area, but he has proposed that there is an "organ" that is the Language Acquisition Device which no one has found.  I don't know how hard people have looked.
"From each according to his ability, to each according to his work."  Comte de Saint-Simon

Offline Annie Subjunctive

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Re: Deconstructing Chomsky
« Reply #7 on: September 25, 2010, 03:38:50 AM »
(Broca's ;) )
"It is true, however, that the opposite of Little Rock, Arkansas is Boulder, Colorado." - Tante

Offline pooka

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Re: Deconstructing Chomsky
« Reply #8 on: September 25, 2010, 10:41:23 AM »
In 20 years, look as good you will not. 
"From each according to his ability, to each according to his work."  Comte de Saint-Simon

Offline Zalmoxis

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Re: Deconstructing Chomsky
« Reply #9 on: October 05, 2010, 10:43:25 AM »
Brokaw's area was pretty good but Williams shows way more range (e.g. 30 Rock, Sesame Street).
Zwei Aufgaben des Lebensanfangs: Deinen Kreis immer mehr einschränken und immer wieder nachprüfen, ob du dich nicht irgendwo außerhalb deines Kreises versteckt hältst. (Kafka)

Offline pooka

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Re: Deconstructing Chomsky
« Reply #10 on: October 05, 2010, 06:02:07 PM »
r d rr. 
"From each according to his ability, to each according to his work."  Comte de Saint-Simon