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Author Topic: Strange Proununciations  (Read 6574 times)

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Offline pooka

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Strange Proununciations
« on: November 23, 2009, 08:32:03 PM »
On sunday we had a Relief Society (Women's auxiliary) lesson about having a mighty change of heart.  But the presenter kept saying "hort".  I think she's from Idaho.
"From each according to his ability, to each according to his work."  Comte de Saint-Simon

Offline Jonathon

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Strange Proununciations
« Reply #1 on: November 23, 2009, 08:34:14 PM »
Weird. I don't think I've ever heard that before.
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Offline Tante Shvester

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Strange Proununciations
« Reply #2 on: November 23, 2009, 09:00:57 PM »
Jonathon, you ain't heard nuttin' 'til you heard me pronounce the English language.  Open your eyes, it will.  Pyooah Shvesterish.
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Offline BlackBlade

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Re: Strange Proununciations
« Reply #3 on: October 04, 2012, 09:41:36 PM »
So there's this annoying Family Guy themed commercial for Wheat Thins where Stewie insists on saying "Hwheat Thins" and Brian questions his pronunciation.

I *have* noticed that with the word "whip" British people have a way of making their mouths form the H sound as they say the word, so it sounds sorta like "Hwhip". I find it to be very pleasant.

This site demonstrates both pronunciations.

It makes sense though, Wh as in "Who" carries the H sound in American pronounciation, but Wh as in "Where" drops it. Yet in England they still say "Hwhere?" Same deal with "What". How come so many of those words, what, who, where, why, and when have that wh construction anyway?

Words like whistle, whisper, whiz, white however all drop the H even in English pronunciations. Kinda weird.
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Offline Amilia

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Re: Strange Proununciations
« Reply #4 on: October 04, 2012, 10:01:32 PM »
I took a speech class in college years ago (was a theater major at the time).  One of the things I remember from that class is that wh is actually pronounced hw.  I don't know that I interalized that enough to actually do it when I'm not thinking about it, but, yeah, it's fun to listen for.

------

Watching Doctor Who on Saturday, I learned that quay is pronounced key.  I was wondering if that was a Britishism, or if I had been pronouncing it wrong my whole life (not that I use the word often, but still).  According to your link (which is awesome, btw), yes, I have been pronouncing it wrong.  I love learning new things.

Offline BlackBlade

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Re: Strange Proununciations
« Reply #5 on: October 04, 2012, 10:29:33 PM »
Quote
According to your link (which is awesome, btw)
Isn't it? My post took about 5-10 minutes longer because I got caught up in listening to that dictionary.
Kyrgyzstan, is the homeland of the Kyrgyzs, a people best known for cheating at Scrabble. -Tante Shvester

What, you expected us to be badly injured or dead, and flying blind to boot? You're the one who told us all to be Awesome. -Brinestone

Offline Jonathon

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Re: Strange Proununciations
« Reply #6 on: October 04, 2012, 11:07:18 PM »
I don't know much about the distribution of the /h/ pronunciation, though it seems to be dying out, at least in the US. I remember being told in second or third grade that you were supposed to pronounce the h, and I thought that that was silly, because nobody pronounced it.

As for the question of where it comes from, well, it depends on how much of a historical linguistics lesson you want. The short answer is that in Old English, it was spelled hw, which makes much more sense, because that's how it's pronounced, but the Anglo-Norman scribes after William the Conqueror decided to switch it for some reason (maybe because there were already several combinations with a letter and then an h in French, so it made it consistent).

The ultimate source of the hw sound is the Proto-Indo-European *kw, which is also the source of the qu words in Latin. So English has who and what while Latin had quis and quid. The interrogative pronouns and adverbs all look the same because they're all formed from the same original PIE interrogative particle, just with various case endings of suffixes tacked on. (The, this, that, these, those, then, and there all look alike for similar reasons.)

Who is an outlier for phonological reasons. In Old English it was hwa, but as the vowel shifted upward to its modern /u/, the /w/ was dropped because it's difficult to make a sequence of two very similar vowel or semivowel sounds. The same thing happened in other words, like sword. And the same thing that happened to who actually happened to how at a much earlier stage, so by the time it was first written down, the /w/ was already gone.
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Offline Amilia

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Re: Strange Proununciations
« Reply #7 on: October 05, 2012, 06:44:48 AM »
Fascinating!

Offline Annie Subjunctive

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Re: Strange Proununciations
« Reply #8 on: October 05, 2012, 06:46:19 AM »
Aren't there various dialects in the US that pronounce the hw too?

Also, that little trip through Indo-European awesomeness just made my evening.
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Offline Tante Shvester

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Re: Strange Proununciations
« Reply #9 on: October 05, 2012, 08:15:25 AM »
Yeah.  I like Hegemony.

Is there any incorrect way to pronounce that?
Fighting thread drift with guilt, reverse psychology, and chicken soup.
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Offline BlackBlade

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Re: Strange Proununciations
« Reply #10 on: October 05, 2012, 08:30:54 AM »
I don't the British pronunciation of that at all. Both American versions are pleasant sounding.
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Offline The Genuine

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Re: Strange Proununciations
« Reply #11 on: October 05, 2012, 09:06:58 AM »
I pronounce debacle deh-buh-kuhl.
I think Jesse's right.

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Offline Jonathon

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Re: Strange Proununciations
« Reply #12 on: October 05, 2012, 10:27:39 AM »
Aren't there various dialects in the US that pronounce the hw too?

There are certainly people who pronounce it, but I don't know if it's a dialectal thing, an age thing, or an idiolectal thing.
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Offline Brinestone

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Re: Strange Proununciations
« Reply #13 on: October 06, 2012, 08:16:14 AM »
Yeah.  I like Hegemony.

Is there any incorrect way to pronounce that?

Yes. You could pronounce it hee-gee-mahn-ee.
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Offline Tante Shvester

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Re: Strange Proununciations
« Reply #14 on: December 06, 2016, 07:05:08 AM »
At the BBC, "commander" rhymes with "Uganda".
Fighting thread drift with guilt, reverse psychology, and chicken soup.
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I love Bones.  -- Sweet Clementine
She grew on him like she was a colony of E. coli and he was room-temperature Canadian beef. -- anonymous

Offline pooka

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Re: Strange Proununciations
« Reply #15 on: February 10, 2017, 04:50:46 PM »
I just said angst with an ah not a digraph.
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Offline Jonathon

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Re: Strange Proununciations
« Reply #16 on: February 10, 2017, 05:16:31 PM »
I'm not sure what you mean by "digraph" there. Maybe diphthong?
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Offline pooka

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Re: Strange Proununciations
« Reply #17 on: February 12, 2017, 09:00:33 PM »
It's what we my professors used to call the a in Brad.
"From each according to his ability, to each according to his work."  Comte de Saint-Simon

Offline Jonathon

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Re: Strange Proununciations
« Reply #18 on: February 12, 2017, 09:33:50 PM »
Oh, I'd call that an ash, though the IPA character is technically a digraph: æ.
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Offline pooka

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Re: Strange Proununciations
« Reply #19 on: February 18, 2017, 09:20:19 PM »
It's possible I might have heard that.  One of my jobs in college was as a reader for a blind linguistics ABD/instructor, and I had to be able to read IPA character by character.
"From each according to his ability, to each according to his work."  Comte de Saint-Simon

Offline Ela

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Re: Strange Proununciations
« Reply #20 on: December 05, 2022, 09:26:02 AM »
I was listening to a podcast put out by Ha'Aretz, as Israeli newspaper, today and one of the folks on the podcast pronounced hyperbole “hyperbowl”. Pretty sure that's not a legitimate variation of how to say hyperbole.


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Offline Jonathon

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Re: Strange Proununciations
« Reply #21 on: December 05, 2022, 12:06:05 PM »
Yeah, it's always hi-PER-buh-LEE. It sounds like someone just learned the word from reading.
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Offline rivka

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Re: Strange Proununciations
« Reply #22 on: December 05, 2022, 02:31:04 PM »
It sounds like someone just learned the word from reading.
It does, and I have heard that particular error before in just such a case.
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Offline Ela

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Re: Strange Proununciations
« Reply #23 on: December 05, 2022, 09:24:06 PM »
Yeah.

My very well-read son used to be notorious for that kind of error when he was in high school, especially: Mispronouncing words he had only seen in writing. It was amusing.

After two university degrees, I don't hear him making that type of error anymore.


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Offline Tante Shvester

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Re: Strange Proununciations
« Reply #24 on: December 06, 2022, 07:20:56 AM »
I recall a special kind of thrill the first time I heard the word synecdoche pronounced.  And the painful disappointment to learn that donzerly is not an adjective describing a special kind of comforting light, like the kind you get from a nightlight in a child's bedroom.
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Fighting thread drift with guilt, reverse psychology, and chicken soup.
Sweet! Law of Moses loopholes! -- Anneke
I love Bones.  -- Sweet Clementine
She grew on him like she was a colony of E. coli and he was room-temperature Canadian beef. -- anonymous