Ellipsis

[Mr. Anderson]

I was just thinking about how people use ellipses way too much these days.  At work, we use MSN IM a lot to communicate from one side of the office to the other.  One of my coworkers uses them in about half of her messages.  It makes it really hard to read her.  It makes it feel like she's irritated with me most of the time.  Other times, it makes it seem like she's really unsure about what she's talking to me about.

I blame it all on computers.  The availability of instant written correspondence has made too many people lazy and ignorant.

[Porter]

I think that ellipses are very useful in conversational writing, such as in IMs, to fill in the non-verbal blanks.

[Mr. Anderson]

I agree, but usually there's a reason for those non-verbal blanks.  They're often intended to create some sort of emotion.  For instance, when she says "thank you...", it feels sarcastic.

[Neutros the Radioactive Dragon]

So... what are you trying to say...?

[Jonathon]

I was just thinking about how people use ellipses way too much these days.  At work, we use MSN IM a lot to communicate from one side of the office to the other.  One of my coworkers uses them in about half of her messages.  It makes it really hard to read her.  It makes it feel like she's irritated with me most of the time.  Other times, it makes it seem like she's really unsure about what she's talking to me about.

I blame it all on computers.  The availability of instant written correspondence has made too many people lazy and ignorant.

I'll agree that it's irritating and unclear, though I don't think the problem is computers. I think it's simply that kids aren't taught writing and grammar effectively anymore. To most high schoolers, grammar is something to suffer through (if they're even taught grammar at all) and then forget. I think people use ellipses simply because they're not sure when to use commas and periods.

[Mr. Anderson]

Some of both?  I agree that schools don't stress much importance in teaching grammar, but I think the amount of communication done electronically has worsened the problem.  Where letters were once well-thought-out, many people now find simple things like capitalization a hassle.  The focus of getting a message out as quickly as possible just adds to the problem of society's very loose grasp on proper grammar.

[Porter]

Apples and oranges.  

Formal letters should be more formal than conversational speech, even if that conversational speech is typed out through the IM.  There are all sorts of things that we say in conversational speech ("gotta go") that aren't appropriate in a formal letter but are perfectly appropriate in an IM.

[Annie Subjunctive]

There's a phenomenon in Japanese grammar known as psychological ellipsis. This means that a thought or phrase is cut short when the speaker doesn't know how to, feels uncomfortable, or feels that it would be rude to articulate the rest of the thought. You would never say, in polite company, "" (Excuse me, I can't east this.) But it would be perfectly acceptable to say "?" (Excuse me, this is a little...)
Similarly, it would be horribly blunt to say "??" (I'm busy right now), but you could easily say "??" (Now is...)

I found it terribly amusing as a missionary that the vast majority of people we met were "a little..." It's also really fun to transfer to English.  

[Porter]

I think I'd go crazy if I tried to learn Japanese.

[Neutros the Radioactive Dragon]

That's a short trip.

[goofy]

Some of both?  I agree that schools don't stress much importance in teaching grammar, but I think the amount of communication done electronically has worsened the problem.  Where letters were once well-thought-out, many people now find simple things like capitalization a hassle.  The focus of getting a message out as quickly as possible just adds to the problem of society's very loose grasp on proper grammar.

This is exactly what David Crystal talks about in his new book, Txtng: The Gr8 Db8, and he shows that there is no cause for concern.

Text messages aren’t full of abbreviations - typically less than ten percent of the words use them.
These abbreviations aren't a new language - they’ve been around for decades.
They aren't just used by kids - adults of all ages and institutions are the leading texters these days.

Pupils don't routinely put them into their school-work or examinations.
It isn't a cause of bad spelling: you have to know how to spell before you can text.
Texting actually improves your literacy, as it gives you more practice in reading and writing.

[Porter]

These abbreviations aren't a new language - they’ve been around for decades.

This is true.  I remember using "BTW" in pen-and-paper letters with friends back before any of us had ever heard of email.

[Jonathon]

Some of both?  I agree that schools don't stress much importance in teaching grammar, but I think the amount of communication done electronically has worsened the problem.  Where letters were once well-thought-out, many people now find simple things like capitalization a hassle.  The focus of getting a message out as quickly as possible just adds to the problem of society's very loose grasp on proper grammar.

I think it has simply made the problem more visible. And as Porter said, an IM really isn't the same thing as a letter. People still do take more time when they're sitting down and writing a school paper than when they're IMing or texting their friends.

[pooka]

I have a stockpile of notes my friends and I used to pass in high school  I seem to recally using ellipsis quite often.  I would probably still use it if people on Hatrack didn't make fun of me early on.

[rivka]

Pupils don't routinely put them into their school-work or examinations.

Wanna bet? Many of them -- a surprising number, in my experience -- do. I am one of the people who ranks our English placement exams, and I also get lots of emails from  students and potential students. One of the problems seems to be a lack of comprehension (not among all, but among a whole heck of a lot) of what situations constitute "formal writing".

[Tante Shvester]

I see dashes -- used in place of comma, semicolons, colons, parentheses -- used far more than ellipses -- correctly or incorrectly -- in all kinds of writing.

Why, even rivka ("Many of them -- a surprising number, in my experience -- do.") favors this use -- go fig!

[rivka]

Dashes sort of replace parentheses (which I also tend to overuse). How do they replace semicolons or commas?

And I use ellipses plenty . . .

[Porter]

I see dashes -- used in place of comma, semicolons, colons, parentheses -- used far more than ellipses -- correctly or incorrectly -- in all kinds of writing.

My ears are burning!

[Tante Shvester]

Dashes sort of replace parentheses (which I also tend to overuse). How do they replace semicolons or commas?
 

I see a lot more dashes than semicolons; there are people who are unsure what the semicolon is for.

I see a lot more dashes than semicolons -- there are people who are unsure what the semicolon is for.


There are times, like this one, when I have a phrase that I set apart with commas.

There are times -- like this one -- when you see dashes instead.

[Porter]

I see a lot more dashes than semicolons; there are people who are unsure what the semicolon is for.

I see a lot more dashes than semicolons -- there are people who are unsure what the semicolon is for.

*raises hand*

[Noemon]

In Kristy's OKCupid profile there was something about the correct use of semicolons being a turn-on. I was kind of surprised to find out that she wasn't completely joking.
 

[Noemon]

My text messages to her contain a higher number of semicolons (correctly used, of course) than do my text messages to anybody else.

[rivka]

In Kristy's OKCupid profile there was something about the correct use of semicolons being a turn-on. I was kind of surprised to find out that she wasn't completely joking.

I could say the same thing, and it wouldn't be.

(Actually, the next time I revise my profile on the dating site I am on (but where I am not currently active) I think I'll put in something about the subjunctive.)

[Porter]

(Actually, the next time I revise my profile on the dating site I am on (but where I am not currently active) I think I'll put in something about the subjunctive.)

I wish it were already there.

[rivka]

Married persons need not apply.