Author Topic: Lesbian v. Gay (Read 1918 times)

scottneb · « **on:** September 03, 2008, 03:47:31 PM »

I've been talking this over with a coworker today, why is the word "gay" gender neutral AND gender specific, while the word "lesbian" is gender specific only?

The Genuine · « **Reply #1 on:** September 03, 2008, 05:44:29 PM »

Because there was no island of Gayos?

Porter · « **Reply #2 on:** September 03, 2008, 08:26:58 PM »

Maybe the real question is "Why is the word "faggot" considered derogatory while "lesbian" isn't?"

Tante Shvester · « **Reply #3 on:** September 03, 2008, 08:58:18 PM »

From what I understand, "gay" is gender-neutral, but in the gay-rights movement, the women (as in many things) felt that they were being marginalized, and so insisted that "lesbian" get equal billing, to emphasise the fact that gay people come in both (um, or all) genders.

But the out lesbians I know, when they are among themselves and not striving for equal footing with the XY crowd, call themselves either "gay women" or "lesbians".

Tante Shvester · « **Reply #4 on:** September 03, 2008, 08:59:31 PM »

Quote

Maybe the real question is "Why is the word "faggot" considered derogatory while "lesbian" isn't?"

Because the derogatory word for a gay woman isn't "lesbian", it's "dyke".

Porter · « **Reply #5 on:** September 03, 2008, 09:03:22 PM »

Oh yeah. I forgot about that word.

Tante Shvester · « **Reply #6 on:** September 03, 2008, 09:10:21 PM »

Probably because you are a nice person.

The Genuine · « **Reply #7 on:** September 04, 2008, 10:18:12 AM »

I would love to learn about the etymology of "faggot" and "dyke" as used as insults.

Nighthawk · « **Reply #8 on:** September 04, 2008, 11:03:51 AM »

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/faggot

Origin: 1910–15, Americanism; cf. faggot
A contemptuous term for a woman (from ca. 1590), perh. the same word as fagot

"male homosexual," 1914, Amer.Eng. slang (shortened form fag is from 1921), probably from earlier contemptuous term for "woman" (1591), especially an old and unpleasant one, in reference to faggot (1) "bundle of sticks," as something awkward that has to be carried (cf. baggage). It was used in this sense in 20c. by D.H. Lawrence and James Joyce, among others. It may also be reinforced by Yiddish faygele "homosexual," lit. "little bird." It also may have roots in Brit. public school slang fag "a junior who does certain duties for a senior" (1785), with suggestions of "catamite," from fag (v.). This was also used as a verb.

Other obsolete senses of faggot were "man hired into military service simply to fill out the ranks at muster" (1700) and "vote manufactured for party purposes" (1817). The oft-heard statement that male homosexuals were called faggots in reference to their being burned at the stake is an etymological urban legend. Burning was sometimes a punishment meted out to homosexuals in Christian Europe (on the suggestion of the Biblical fate of Sodom and Gomorah), but in England, where parliament had made homosexuality a capital offense in 1533, hanging was the method prescribed. Any use of faggot in connection with public executions had long become an English historical obscurity by the time the word began to be used for "male homosexual" in 20th century American slang, whereas the contemptuous slang word for "woman" (and the other possible sources or influences listed here) was in active use.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/dyke

Origin: 1940–45
Earlier in form bulldike (with a var. bulldagger); of obscure orig.; claimed to be a shortening of morphodyke (var. of morphodite, a reshaping of hermaphrodite), though morphodyke is more likely a b. morphodite and a pre-existing dyke; other hypothesized connections, such as with diked out or dike “ditch,” are dubious on semantic grounds.

1931, Amer.Eng., probably shortening of morphadike, dialectal garbling of hermaphrodite, but bulldyker "engage in lesbian activities" is attested from 1921, and a source from 1896 lists dyke as slang for "the vulva."