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Offline Porter

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« Reply #25 on: September 02, 2008, 10:40:13 PM »
*taps sarcastometer*
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Sooner or later, this forum is going to max out on hyperliteralness.

Offline dkw

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« Reply #26 on: September 03, 2008, 09:23:27 AM »
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Unless the signage contained some evidence that the author knew and preferred archaic spellings, then I'd say that ignorance is the simpler explanation.
 
How old is the sign?  The article just said that it was a historic sign -- is it possible it was written in a time when that spelling would have been more common?

Offline Noemon

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« Reply #27 on: September 03, 2008, 10:40:59 AM »
That had been my assumption.
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Offline Porter

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« Reply #28 on: September 03, 2008, 11:26:23 AM »
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Sooner or later, this forum is going to max out on hyperliteralness.

Offline Jonathon

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« Reply #29 on: September 03, 2008, 11:59:49 AM »
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Unless the signage contained some evidence that the author knew and preferred archaic spellings, then I'd say that ignorance is the simpler explanation.
 
How old is the sign?  The article just said that it was a historic sign -- is it possible it was written in a time when that spelling would have been more common?
This article says it's 60 years old. And from my limited research, it appears that the spelling "emenese" was never exactly common. A search of the entirety of the OED turns up one entry by Caxton in 1490. Google Books shows just over 400 hits, compared with 150,000 for "immense," though I don't know how much you can judge by that.  
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Offline Jonathon

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« Reply #30 on: September 03, 2008, 12:01:15 PM »
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/7595509.stm
That list just made me sad. Those are the best examples of grammar rules being flouted? The article certainly got one thing right—grammar just ain't what it used to be.
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Offline goofy

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« Reply #31 on: September 04, 2008, 12:56:21 PM »
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/7595509.stm
I love how an editor has had to add a bunch of notes correcting a lot of the misconceptions.  

Offline Jonathon

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« Reply #32 on: September 04, 2008, 01:26:05 PM »
But not nearly enough of them, in my opinion.
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Offline Annie Subjunctive

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« Reply #33 on: September 04, 2008, 02:47:57 PM »
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I would assume that the author of the sign chose that spelling because that's how the words sounds and she didn't know the standard spelling, not because she was relying on established historical spelling.
This is why I still don't agree with people using the word orientate. It may be a valid word, but they're not using it because they know it's a valid word. They're using it because they're back-forming it from orientation.
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Offline Annie Subjunctive

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« Reply #34 on: September 04, 2008, 02:53:25 PM »
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20. Stadiums, as a plural of stadium, rather than stadia.
C. Matthews, Birmingham, UK

NOTE: Fowler's says that when dealing with modern sports grounds, rather than ones from the classical world, the plural is "stadiums".
Does this apply to syllabus as well? I've heard about 47 people refer to "syllabi" this week.
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Offline Tante Shvester

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« Reply #35 on: September 04, 2008, 02:55:26 PM »
I can't stand when people talk about the city buses.  The correct plural is city bi.
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Offline Jonathon

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« Reply #36 on: September 04, 2008, 05:17:12 PM »
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I would assume that the author of the sign chose that spelling because that's how the words sounds and she didn't know the standard spelling, not because she was relying on established historical spelling.
This is why I still don't agree with people using the word orientate. It may be a valid word, but they're not using it because they know it's a valid word. They're using it because they're back-forming it from orientation.
I don't think those things are mutually exclusive. Back-formation is a valid way to form words, sort of like how back-form is back-formed from back-formation. ;) And I disagree about people's motivations. Most people have no idea about morphological processes, at least not consciously. People use words because they hear them being used, not because they've studied the processes for word formation in Latin and English.

And anyway, it's not clear that it's a back-formation as opposed to a regular derivation of orient + -ate. I think the original reason why it became a prescriptivist bugbear in the US is that we've developed this notion that if we have two words that mean the same thing and have similar forms, but one has more syllables, then the longer one must be wrong.
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Offline Jonathon

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« Reply #37 on: September 04, 2008, 05:22:04 PM »
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20. Stadiums, as a plural of stadium, rather than stadia.
C. Matthews, Birmingham, UK

NOTE: Fowler's says that when dealing with modern sports grounds, rather than ones from the classical world, the plural is "stadiums".
Does this apply to syllabus as well? I've heard about 47 people refer to "syllabi" this week.
I'm not sure how modern sports grounds relate to syllabuses, but many nouns of Latin and Greek origin can form the plural two ways, like appendixes versus appendices. Some fields may prefer one form over the other, though.
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Offline goofy

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« Reply #38 on: September 04, 2008, 06:47:08 PM »
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I can't stand when people talk about the city buses.  The correct plural is city bi.
bus is from omnibus, which is alread a plural in Latin, it's the plural dative of omnis. So in fact the word has no singular, which mean we shouldn't refer to long motor vehicles for carrying passengers in the singular. I've noticed that many people talk about one bus, but this is wrong, meaningless, and offends the senses.

Offline rivka

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« Reply #39 on: September 04, 2008, 06:57:08 PM »
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Quote
20. Stadiums, as a plural of stadium, rather than stadia.
C. Matthews, Birmingham, UK

NOTE: Fowler's says that when dealing with modern sports grounds, rather than ones from the classical world, the plural is "stadiums".
Does this apply to syllabus as well? I've heard about 47 people refer to "syllabi" this week.
Make that 48.

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« Reply #40 on: September 04, 2008, 07:01:06 PM »
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bus is from omnibus, which is alread a plural in Latin, it's the plural dative of omnis. So in fact the word has no singular, which mean we shouldn't refer to long motor vehicles for carrying passengers in the singular. I've noticed that many people talk about one bus, but this is wrong, meaningless, and offends the senses.
Also, I'm pretty sure that it should be 'bus, not bus.  
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Offline rivka

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« Reply #41 on: September 04, 2008, 07:04:28 PM »
?
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Offline Brinestone

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« Reply #42 on: September 04, 2008, 08:11:30 PM »
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But not nearly enough of them, in my opinion.
No joke. That article was annoying.
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Offline Jonathon

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« Reply #43 on: September 04, 2008, 08:28:41 PM »
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?
I take it you loved the sarcasm?
« Last Edit: September 04, 2008, 08:29:05 PM by Jonathon »
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Offline Tante Shvester

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« Reply #44 on: September 04, 2008, 08:49:17 PM »
So, bus is always plural, like pants and panties and scissors?  Except, I guess pants and panties and scissors always come in pairs.  If you break up a pair of panties into one panty and another panty, well, you've probably had a very exciting evening.
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Offline Jonathon

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« Reply #45 on: September 04, 2008, 08:55:08 PM »
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So, bus is always plural . . . ?
No. Bus is and always has been treated as a singular form in English.
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Offline Tante Shvester

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« Reply #46 on: September 04, 2008, 09:01:58 PM »
Well, what about Latin panties, then?
Fighting thread drift with guilt, reverse psychology, and chicken soup.
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Offline Jonathon

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« Reply #47 on: September 04, 2008, 09:10:11 PM »
You'll have to ask someone who knows Latin.
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Offline rivka

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« Reply #48 on: September 04, 2008, 09:16:06 PM »
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Quote
?
I take it you loved the sarcasm?
It's a buss.  
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Offline Zalmoxis

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« Reply #49 on: September 20, 2008, 07:18:56 AM »
Hee-hee. These guys got the Stuff White People Like treatment.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2008, 07:19:28 AM by Zalmoxis »
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