Author Topic: The Versatility of English (Read 8175 times)

Farmgirl · « **Reply #25 on:** December 12, 2007, 10:39:56 AM »

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The word of the year is actually woot/w00t.

I was surprised not more people comment on this, which Porter posted on page 1.

Found this interesting little Comment on Google News about it. Thought it was an interesting read about how they decide these things.

(and that links to this little gem with lots of interesting trivia)

Porter · « **Reply #26 on:** December 16, 2007, 09:00:48 AM »

Listening to this episode of A Way With Words (link to the mp3 file), which Mike over on SR mentioned recently, I learned the name of the dent in the upper lip is philtrum.

According to wikipedia, infranasal depression also is correct.

Philtrum come from the Greek philtron, which originally mean "love potion". Nobody really knows why the Greeks named the infranasal depression "love potion".

There are words similar to philtrum in many other languages.

And now we know.

Tante Shvester · « **Reply #27 on:** December 16, 2007, 09:49:26 AM »

I knew about "philtrum", but I figured that it was medical jargon, and I don't count jargon as proper English.

Jonathon · « **Reply #28 on:** December 16, 2007, 09:50:17 AM »

I don't believe I've ever used it or heard it used outside of conversations like this one.

Porter · « **Reply #29 on:** December 16, 2007, 09:59:38 AM »

Yeah, but how many conversations have you ever had, besides ones like this, where there was a need for such a word? For me, I'll bet I can count them on one hand.

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What makes a word jargon?

Tante Shvester · « **Reply #30 on:** December 16, 2007, 10:01:24 AM »

In medical type jargon, there is no part of the body, no matter how itty-bitty, that doesn't get a name. They even named some stuff "innominate" which means the part of the body without a name.

In fact, if I recall correctly, there are four things in the body called "innominate" -- a vein, an artery, a bone, and a part of the brain.

Tante Shvester · « **Reply #31 on:** December 16, 2007, 10:05:04 AM »

Jargon is a vocabulary used by a specialized group. There is legalese, which has its own vocabulary of jargon and is, I suspect, what makes people hire a lawyer (for the interpretation as much as the knowledge of the law); medical jargon which is perfectly intelligible to medical types and difficult for outsiders to understand, yadda yadda ya.

Porter · « **Reply #32 on:** December 16, 2007, 10:08:24 AM »

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Jargon is a vocabulary used by a specialized group.

By that definition, cranium and penis* are jargon, since those words are used in the medical field. But I doubt you'd say that they're not proper English words.

*I assume that those are are used as technical terms in the medical field, but I don't actually know. The particular word doesn't matter -- there are many words for parts of the body which are used in common English and as technical terms by medical professionals.

Tante Shvester · « **Reply #33 on:** December 16, 2007, 10:23:56 AM »

By "jargon" I refer to the technical terms that are not in general usage.

For instance, when I'm at work, I call those holes at the bottom of your nose "nares". When I'm not on the job, they are "nostrils". But whether or not I'm using jargon, I call that stuff sprouting off the top of a head "hair". "Nares" would be jargon, "hair" not.

Porter · « **Reply #34 on:** December 16, 2007, 10:41:29 AM »

I suspect that the reason why we don't use the word philtrum enough for you to consider it "proper" English is that, unlike other cultures, we don't have a tradition explaining its origins, and therefore the word (or need for it) practically never comes up outside of technical discussions, where it can be dismissed as mere jargon.

Jonathon · « **Reply #35 on:** December 16, 2007, 11:04:27 AM »

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By "jargon" I refer to the technical terms that are not in general usage.

Yup. I think the key is that it's generally restricted to a certain group.

Porter · « **Reply #36 on:** December 16, 2007, 03:15:13 PM »

But I think it's only restricted to a certain group because they're generally the only ones with cause to talk about it. It's hardly a failing of the English language.

Jonathon · « **Reply #37 on:** December 16, 2007, 03:44:45 PM »

Right. Of course, it might be that other people talk about such things, but professionals need a more concise or specific term to distinguish it from other things.

Noemon · « **Reply #38 on:** December 16, 2007, 03:54:46 PM »

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Philtrum come from the Greek philtron, which originally mean "love potion".

"Philtron" sounds like some kind of superhero robot. A sexy superhero robot.

Porter · « **Reply #39 on:** December 16, 2007, 04:00:32 PM »

"Philtron" does sound sound like a lovebot.

Porter · « **Reply #40 on:** December 16, 2007, 04:13:08 PM »

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Right. Of course, it might be that other people talk about such things, but professionals need a more concise or specific term to distinguish it from other things.

Agreed. That happens all the time, where a jargon word is used in lieu of of common word either to be more specific or to strip away connotations.

But in this situation, if there were a more common English word for the philtron, I'll bet that somebody here would have heard of it.

pooka · « **Reply #41 on:** December 16, 2007, 06:55:14 PM »

Do all languages have jargons or are jargons a particular demonspawn of English?

Jonathon · « **Reply #42 on:** December 16, 2007, 08:01:07 PM »

I'd guess that anytime a society has enough specialization, jargons will naturally develop.

Porter · « **Reply #43 on:** December 16, 2007, 08:06:26 PM »

Jargon is incredibly useful, allowing you to concisely say precisely what you mean.

Tante Shvester · « **Reply #44 on:** December 16, 2007, 08:38:12 PM »

It's useful for that, but it also serves other purposes. Jargon is a way of creating a sense of community among a specialized group. It is also a way to keep outsiders from joining that community.

It has linguistic and sociological connotations.

Jonathon · « **Reply #45 on:** December 16, 2007, 08:41:07 PM »

Sociolinguistic connotations, even.

Tante Shvester · « **Reply #46 on:** December 16, 2007, 08:46:27 PM »

Oy! What's with the jargon?

Noemon · « **Reply #47 on:** December 17, 2007, 04:47:13 AM »

pooka · « **Reply #48 on:** December 17, 2007, 07:44:10 AM »

In one of my classes, I no longer remember which, we talked about how there were several classifications for specialized speech, of which jargon was one. There were dialects, langues and ergots.

I suppose you could call that meta-jargon.

I'm seeing nothing on ergots online that has to do with language. I'll have to check and see if it's in a book anywhere when I get home.

Oh, here were go:

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A dialect that is associated with a particular social class can be termed a sociolect. Other speech varieties include: standard languages, which are standardized for public performance (for example, a written standard); jargons, which are characterized by differences in lexicon (vocabulary); slang; patois; pidgins or argots. The particular speech patterns used by an individual are termed an idiolect.

I finally checked dialect in wikipedia. "Cant" is another one. But it appears French, at the very least, suffers from specialty dialects (as opposed to geographic dialects.)

Tante Shvester · « **Reply #49 on:** December 17, 2007, 07:56:29 AM »

I believe there is a difference between ergot and argot. The former is a drug derived from a fungus that grows on grain. The latter is a term for slang, derived from the French.