Grammar Class

[Narnia]

The annoying punctuation thread left me feeling paranoid...I mean, I talk with ellipses...sometimes.  I use them to signify pauses...long pauses.   I know it is incorrect, but I'm quite sure that I missed the lessons about semicolons, dashes,  and the correct usage of commas.  I'd love to stop feeling like a grammar underling here on this board and over at Hatrack.

So*, I ask that you dash off some quick rules that everyone should know, mostly having to do with punctuation.  Feel free to include other rules like "they're, their, and there" or "it's vs. its".  I'm much better at the word rules.  It's punctuation that I lack.

[Jonathon]

The annoying punctuation thread left me feeling paranoid...I mean, I talk with ellipses...sometimes.

Everybody talks like that. If we all wrote the way we talked, we'd all look semi-literate.

I use them to signify pauses...long pauses.   I know it is incorrect, but I'm quite sure that I missed the lessons about semicolons, dashes,  and the correct usage of commas.  I'd love to stop feeling like a grammar underling here on this board and over at Hatrack.

There are some people on the forums who consistently make annoying punctuation errors. You are not among them, at least not that I've noticed. I mean, I'm sure you make errors from time to time, because most people do, but you seem to get it right most of the time.

But I can start putting together some Punctuation for Dummies rules on my lunch break if you'd like.

Edit: Actually, now that I think about it, I'm not sure I can throw something together so quickly. I'll have to do it later.

[Narnia]

We should just have folks throw in the punctuation rule that they wish everyone would follow.  I think we'd have a nice conglomeration of rules by the end of the thread.

Oh, and thanks for helping me feel better about my grammar.

[Porter]

I wish that people would only include inside literal quotes what they are actually quoting.

What Porter wants:
"That's a great idea", Jon Boy said.

What is correct:
"I don't like that idea," Jon Boy said.
 

[Tante Shvester]

I'm with you on that, Porter.  I deliberately defy the rule, because sometimes you just can't go by the rules.  You have to do what's right.

[Jonathon]

I guess I should get around to writing some tips, huh?

Here goes:

1. Don't put a single comma between a subject and its verb. For example, "The man who went to the store, bought some bread." It was once common practice to do this when the subject had some sort of complement (like "who went to the store"), but it has long since been abandoned.

2. Check to see if your single comma really should be double. "The man, whose name was Fred went to the store" is incorrect. Use a pair of commas to set off parenthetical clauses or phrases. If you'd use two parentheses, you should use two commas.

3. If you're unsure what to do, take a minimalist approach. Don't try to use things like semicolons, dashes, or ellipses if you're not comfortable with them. All of those things can be replaced with commas or periods without any great loss.

[dkw]

3a.  Except if you have a list whose elements include commas, in which case you should seperate the elements by semicolons to avoid confusion.  Especially if I'm the one who's supposed to read your list out loud.    

[Narnia]

Ah, I get it.  I find that I use parentheses all the time, when I really could use double commas.  Makes sense.  (Ok, was that comma usage correct? I'm parnoid about my commas.)

[Porter]

I don't think Jonathon was saying to always use commas instead of parentheses -- he was saying that if you could use parentheses instead of commas, then you need two commas instead of just one.

Out of curiosity -- what punctuation would y'all use in these two sentences where I use the dash?

[Jonathon]

Hmm. That's one of those gray areas that I've never mastered, to be honest. Supposedly it could go either way depending on whether the following clause is parenthetical, but I find that it's often hard to tell. Does the sentence mean the same thing if you leave off that clause? I'd say probably not. You're not simply saying that you use parentheses all the time; you're saying that you use them when you could use commas. That changes the meaning. And if it changes the meaning, then it's not parenthetical, so you don't need the comma.

[Jonathon]

I don't think Jonathon was saying to always use commas instead of parentheses -- he was saying that if you could use parentheses instead of commas, then you need two commas instead of just one.

Out of curiosity -- what punctuation would y'all use in these two sentences where I use the dash?

Right. The parentheses thing was just a test to see if you need a second comma. For example, "The man, named Porter went to the store" is incorrect. If you used parentheses (though you probably wouldn't), you'd get "The man (named Porter) went to the store." This shows where the second comma should go.

I'd use a dash in the first sentence, though a period or semicolon could also work. I think the dash works best for that kind of explanatory addition. I'd use just a comma in the second one. It's just an introductory phrase, and the dash feels like overpunctuation to me.