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Author Topic: , and nine lemons.  (Read 3702 times)

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Offline Teshi

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, and nine lemons.
« on: September 01, 2006, 05:11:57 PM »
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1. I have eight rabbits, seven donkeys, and nine lemons.

2. I have eight rabbits, seven donkeys and nine lemons.

Is number 1 really wrong or just a little wrong? Assuming it is wrong- which I am pretty sure it is.  
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Offline Porter

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, and nine lemons.
« Reply #1 on: September 01, 2006, 05:14:34 PM »
Um, isn't #1 completely right, and #2 is wrong?
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Offline Jonathon

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, and nine lemons.
« Reply #2 on: September 01, 2006, 05:16:03 PM »
Both are right. Though I personally think that 1 is more right.
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Offline Porter

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, and nine lemons.
« Reply #3 on: September 01, 2006, 05:17:33 PM »
*needs to read Animal Farm*
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Offline pooka

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, and nine lemons.
« Reply #4 on: September 01, 2006, 05:41:48 PM »
I used to prefer "comma space and" but someone told me it was wrong so I don't do it anymore.  I think it may vary by publication.  
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Offline Jonathon

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« Reply #5 on: September 01, 2006, 05:46:05 PM »
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I used to prefer "comma space and" but someone told me it was wrong so I don't do it anymore.
Bah! Do you believe all the lies the grammar nazis tell you? :pirate:

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I think it may vary by publication.

Yup. It depends on what style guide they follow. Chicago says you should use the comma, AP says you shouldn't unless it's necessary to avoid ambiguity. I'm not sure about the other major style guides.
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Offline Mr. Anderson

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, and nine lemons.
« Reply #6 on: September 01, 2006, 06:45:04 PM »
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Both are right. Though I personally think that 1 is more right.
Yeah, that's what I've always been taught.  I prefer using a comma because there's a pause.
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Offline Teshi

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, and nine lemons.
« Reply #7 on: September 02, 2006, 03:30:15 PM »
I ask because my brother took an English test for a job posting and answered the question with number 1. I told him I thought they were both right-ish, but number two was probably the right answer. I have no idea what I would normally write.

I shall tell him. He thinks people who study English are the devil* and so will be pleased that they're both perfectly acceptable.

Thanks, everybody :).

*Seriously.  
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Offline Nighthawk

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, and nine lemons.
« Reply #8 on: September 02, 2006, 03:51:37 PM »
I've always been taught that there isn't a comma before the last "and", and any other way was simply wrong.

Considering I use commas a lot, that's really the only rule that I follow because of conditioning by my teachers. I've never really doubted it.

Thanks for confusing me!
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Offline Jonathon

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, and nine lemons.
« Reply #9 on: September 02, 2006, 04:05:19 PM »
Thank your teachers for teaching you blatant falsehoods.
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Offline rivka

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, and nine lemons.
« Reply #10 on: September 07, 2006, 09:12:07 AM »
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Both are right. Though I personally think that 1 is more right.
Agreed -- at least for the US. Isn't #2 the preferred option in the UK?
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Offline Primal Curve

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, and nine lemons.
« Reply #11 on: September 09, 2006, 02:55:42 PM »
SP:
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Offline eslaine

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, and nine lemons.
« Reply #12 on: September 10, 2006, 07:51:15 AM »
He, he.

I've encountered the folks who think that no. 2 is the only way to go, but, as Jon Boy says, it is merely a matter of style.  In the newsletter that I was editing, I'd sneak in as many final commas as possible, and they hardly noticed.  Many times it meant the difference between ambiguity and coherency, especially when you have lists of things that have combinations in them, such as ".., and peanut butter and jelly."
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Offline pooka

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, and nine lemons.
« Reply #13 on: September 10, 2006, 09:04:56 AM »
I think I remember that if you have a list within a list, the outer list should be delimited with semi-colons.  If you have three levels of lists, you should be taken out and summarily shot.  

Does that make me a fascist?
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Offline eslaine

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« Reply #14 on: September 10, 2006, 10:42:50 AM »
That's pretty close.

Why so much anger?
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Offline Jonathon

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« Reply #15 on: September 10, 2006, 04:00:14 PM »
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I think I remember that if you have a list within a list, the outer list should be delimited with semi-colons.  If you have three levels of lists, you should be taken out and summarily shot. 

Does that make me a fascist?
Eslaine's not talking about a list within a list, though—just a list where one item is a compound, as in "For breakfast I had pancakes, orange juice, and ham and eggs." If you omit the final comma, then the list will likely be misread.


Primal: Awesome comic. Thanks for posting it.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2006, 04:01:32 PM by Jon Boy »
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Offline rivka

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, and nine lemons.
« Reply #16 on: September 10, 2006, 06:23:20 PM »
Primal's comic made me laugh. pooka's fascism made me laugh harder.

I love this place.
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Offline pooka

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« Reply #17 on: September 11, 2006, 02:00:13 AM »
So why couldn't the compound come earlier in the list?  I mean, I don't think all those saved commas are going to add up to something great.  I just dislike the  and ___ and ___ of itself, setting aside the issue of commas.

Why not put the comma after the and, oh ye comma free-lovers?
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Offline Brinestone

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, and nine lemons.
« Reply #18 on: September 11, 2006, 07:57:22 AM »
The best evidence for the final serial comma I've ever seen:

"I got my picture taken with my parents, Mother Theresa and the Pope."
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Offline rivka

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« Reply #19 on: September 11, 2006, 08:04:08 AM »
:lol:  
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Offline Jonathon

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« Reply #20 on: September 11, 2006, 08:25:13 AM »
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So why couldn't the compound come earlier in the list?  I mean, I don't think all those saved commas are going to add up to something great.  I just dislike the  and ___ and ___ of itself, setting aside the issue of commas.

Why not put the comma after the and, oh ye comma free-lovers?
You could put it at the end, but there's a strong tendency to put longer items at the end. It's where they seem to naturally end up.
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Offline pooka

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« Reply #21 on: September 11, 2006, 10:28:27 AM »
If Jon Boy is right, that sentence would be "I had my picture taken with the Pope, my parents and Mother Theresa."  Just sayin' is all.  
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Offline Jonathon

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« Reply #22 on: September 11, 2006, 10:31:14 AM »
Okay, maybe I should reword that: there's a tendency to put lengthy items or compound items at the end. It's not like people count the number of syllables and arrange them that way.
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Offline Brinestone

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« Reply #23 on: September 11, 2006, 10:44:36 AM »
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If Jon Boy is right, that sentence would be "I had my picture taken with the Pope, my parents and Mother Theresa." Just sayin' is all.

What does that have to do with what Jon Boy is saying?

Also, just because you can rearrange it for clarity doesn't mean you should have to if a comma would do the same job more easily.
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Offline JT

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« Reply #24 on: September 11, 2006, 11:39:32 AM »
And so starts my life as a grammar klansman.
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