Author Topic: Jewish English (Read 7083 times)

Porter · « **Reply #25 on:** August 29, 2006, 03:00:13 PM »

Admitting it is the first step.

rivka · « **Reply #26 on:** August 29, 2006, 10:52:04 PM »

Not for an East-Coaster. For them, admitted it is also called "bragging."

Noemon · « **Reply #27 on:** August 30, 2006, 05:45:44 AM »

Quote

Not for an East-Coaster. For them, admitted it is also called "bragging."

Like "look at me, I'm so parochial"?

It's an attitude that I don't have much patience with, honestly. It strikes me as small-minded ignorance masquerading as cosmopolitan sophistication.

In case it looks like I'm being particularly harsh, I'll also add that I don't think that it's a viewpoint that Tante actually holds, given that she has shown herself to be a thoughtful person, and given that she in regular contact with the people maligned by that kind of thinking. I don't think that you could be the one and do the other and continue to think that way.

Porter · « **Reply #28 on:** August 30, 2006, 06:20:18 AM »

Quote

Not for an East-Coaster. For them, admitted it is also called "bragging."

That's like the stereotypical ignoran American being unashamed that he doesn't know the difference between China and Japan, or tha he can't find Europe on a map, damn furriners.

Noemon · « **Reply #29 on:** August 30, 2006, 07:48:29 AM »

No, it's like the stereotypical American being proud that they don't know the difference between China and Japan.

pooka · « **Reply #30 on:** August 30, 2006, 07:50:59 AM »

I read that as "damned furries."

Lady Montagu · « **Reply #31 on:** August 30, 2006, 10:23:39 AM »

There are all sorts of ways to be provincial, including the one illustrated on that cover.

pooka · « **Reply #32 on:** September 01, 2006, 04:36:10 AM »

I don't know, if you are willing to eat soylent green you can forget about what goes on in the rest of the country. :devil:

Porter · « **Reply #33 on:** September 01, 2006, 06:37:52 AM »

Here's how little I am aware of the Jewish culture: It took me about two seasons of Futurama to realize that Dr. Zoidberg was supposed to be Jewish.

Or maybe that's a testament to how oblivious I am. Once I thought of it, I realized that Dr. Zoidberg fits most of the Jewish cliches I can think of:

His name has "stein", "berg", "gold", or "man" in it.
He's got a stereotypical Jewish accent (For all I know it could be legit, but I've never heard a human, instead of a character, speak like that.)
His sentence strucutre is reminiscent, in a way I lack the vocabulary to describe, of both Jewish characters I've seen and Tante's example earlier in this thread (You want I should go?)
He's a doctor.
He and his people are fond of employing guilt trips on each other.
That's all I've got.

Jonathon · « **Reply #34 on:** September 01, 2006, 08:18:44 AM »

It becomes even more apparent in a couple of episodes where there's a Decapodian other than Zoidberg (like the one with his uncle or the one where the Decapodians invade Earth). They even throw in some Yiddish vocabulary like "shlep."

rivka · « **Reply #35 on:** September 07, 2006, 09:08:47 AM »

Quote

Quote
Not for an East-Coaster. For them, admitting it is also called "bragging."
Like "look at me, I'm so parochial"?

Not exactly. Many NYers (and those in the Tri-State area in general) really do think their little corner of the world is the center of it. And in many cases, it is not because of a lack of exposure to the rest of the world (although there are certainly plenty of that variety as well). NY really does have some of the best museums, restaurants, theatres, and other cultural meccas in the world. And don't get me started on the shopping!

IMO, it's a great place to visit. But I wouldn't want to LIVE there (and I tried it for a year).

Quote

[/li][li]He's got a stereotypical Jewish accent (For all I know it could be legit, but I've never heard a human, instead of a character, speak like that.)

[/li]
His sentence structure is reminiscent, in a way I lack the vocabulary to describe, of both Jewish characters I've seen and Tante's example earlier in this thread (You want I should go?)

His accent is exaggerated but not terribly so. The grammatical structures you noticed are Yiddish in origin (mostly, anyway). A few have actually crept into mainstream English. Just last week I noticed a blogger, who as far as I know has no connection to anything Jewish, use the phrase "I hold by [such-and-such authority]," which I do not believe is generally a common American English usage. But it's used in Yinglish all the time.

Quote

They even throw in some Yiddish vocabulary like "shlep."

You know that word, like "megillah" and "chutzpah" have become fairly mainstream, right? Even outside of NY?

Porter · « **Reply #36 on:** September 07, 2006, 09:11:49 AM »

Shlep and chutzpah I recognize, but not that middle one.

rivka · « **Reply #37 on:** September 07, 2006, 09:19:10 AM »

Sure, but you live in UTAH!

*flees*

Porter · « **Reply #38 on:** September 07, 2006, 09:22:57 AM »

But I moved here from Oklahoma!

rivka · « **Reply #39 on:** September 07, 2006, 09:46:00 AM »

That's one of the flatter states of the flat states in the middle, right?

Jonathon · « **Reply #40 on:** September 07, 2006, 09:47:40 AM »

Quote

Quote
They even throw in some Yiddish vocabulary like "shlep."
You know that word, like "megillah" and "chutzpah" have become fairly mainstream, right? Even outside of NY?

No matter how mainstream they become, they will always be Yiddish in origin.

Also, it's worth noting that I've never heard anyone use any of those words in person unless they were talking about Yiddish English.

Noemon · « **Reply #41 on:** September 07, 2006, 11:26:11 AM »

Quote

Quote

Quote
They even throw in some Yiddish vocabulary like "shlep."
You know that word, like "megillah" and "chutzpah" have become fairly mainstream, right? Even outside of NY?
No matter how mainstream they become, they will always be Yiddish in origin.

Also, it's worth noting that I've never heard anyone use any of those words in person unless they were talking about Yiddish English.

I've heard all three used in non-Yiddish contexts, and I hear the first and the third all the time.

Tante Shvester · « **Reply #42 on:** September 07, 2006, 02:24:29 PM »

Quote

Sure, but you live in UTAH!

Quote

But I moved here from Oklahoma!

So confuzzled. I thought it was Texas. Are you guys messing with the poor zhlub from Jersey?

Porter · « **Reply #43 on:** September 07, 2006, 02:34:57 PM »

I lived for ten years in Texas, but I moved to Utah from Oklahoma.

rivka · « **Reply #44 on:** September 07, 2006, 02:37:29 PM »

Quote

No matter how mainstream they become, they will always be Yiddish in origin.

Of course. But not too many people worry about the French origin of "beef," neh?

Quote

Also, it's worth noting that I've never heard anyone use any of those words in person unless they were talking about Yiddish English.

See previous response to Porter.

pooka · « **Reply #45 on:** September 07, 2006, 02:51:58 PM »

Quote

No matter how mainstream they become, they will always be Yiddish in origin.

Not really. Remember all our arguments about where such and such Latin word came from? What if it was borrowed into Latin but no one looks past the Latin? That could happen with English.

Jonathon · « **Reply #46 on:** September 07, 2006, 02:57:25 PM »

Quote

Quote
No matter how mainstream they become, they will always be Yiddish in origin.
Of course. But not too many people worry about the French origin of "beef," neh?

I never said anyone was worried about anything. All I was saying is that words like shlep are still very associated with Jewish Americans and the Yiddish English dialect, even though they are becoming more widespread in American English.

rivka · « **Reply #47 on:** September 07, 2006, 03:41:28 PM »

And I'm not disagreeing with you, really.

Well, maybe a little.

Yes, they are, and probably always will be associated with Yiddish and Jews. But the association is weaker than it was, and it is perfectly normal and common for many non-Jews -- including some who know few or no Yiddish-speakers -- to use these words.

Jonathon · « **Reply #48 on:** September 07, 2006, 05:08:18 PM »

It would seem that I'm not disagreeing with you, either.

But, um . . . what was my original point? Oh, yeah—Dr. Zoidberg and the Decapodians are supposed to sound Jewish, so the writers give them some stereotypically Jewish dialogue. I never meant to imply that those words were exclusively Jewish, though.

rivka · « **Reply #49 on:** September 07, 2006, 05:30:38 PM »

Jews in Hollywood. Who would have thought it?