Author Topic: The random etymology of the day (Read 222430 times)

Jonathon · « **Reply #750 on:** July 10, 2008, 05:17:22 PM »

So what you're saying is that once something becomes mainstream, it's correct?

Also, maybe I'm missing something, but I don't see the irony in using a verb without its accompanying preposition.

rivka · « **Reply #751 on:** July 10, 2008, 07:01:44 PM »

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So what you're saying is that once something becomes mainstream, it's correct?

No, I'm saying once it becomes mainstream, I usually give up arguing against it -- I've already lost.

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Also, maybe I'm missing something, but I don't see the irony in using a verb without its accompanying preposition.

Hey, I didn't say it -- ask fugu what he meant.

Jonathon · « **Reply #752 on:** July 10, 2008, 07:18:19 PM »

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So what you're saying is that once something becomes mainstream, it's correct?
No, I'm saying once it becomes mainstream, I usually give up arguing against it -- I've already lost.

Fair enough. I was going to be very surprised if you equated being mainstream with being correct, because that pretty much violates the whole idea of prescriptivism.

rivka · « **Reply #753 on:** July 10, 2008, 07:21:29 PM »

But not the whole idea of anarchy! :devil:

The Genuine · « **Reply #754 on:** August 15, 2008, 11:00:14 PM »

Octopodes.

Jonathon · « **Reply #755 on:** August 16, 2008, 08:27:50 AM »

The Genuine · « **Reply #756 on:** August 16, 2008, 02:36:36 PM »

Jon, how should I interpret that emoticon? Did I rock your world? Am I just an idiot? Both?

Jonathon · « **Reply #757 on:** August 16, 2008, 03:06:19 PM »

That was me not knowing how to interpret your previous post.

The Genuine · « **Reply #758 on:** August 16, 2008, 07:56:50 PM »

Hmm. I just thought it was a bit of random etymological info, so I put it here. Wrong place? Poor timing? Posted already?

Jonathon · « **Reply #759 on:** August 17, 2008, 10:04:10 AM »

It's not the wrong place (though it probably has been discussed before). There was just no discussion or context, so I wasn't sure what you were saying. And anyway, I just assumed that everyone already knows that octupus comes from the Greek for "eight foot." Unless you were saying something in particular about the Greek plural.

The Genuine · « **Reply #760 on:** August 17, 2008, 10:28:16 AM »

I just think that most persons assume "octopi" is correct.

Jonathon · « **Reply #761 on:** August 17, 2008, 10:46:20 AM »

Oh. So you were talking about the correct form of the plural rather than the etymology? That's what I didn't get.

The Genuine · « **Reply #762 on:** August 17, 2008, 02:48:00 PM »

I put it here because the answer was etymology-reliant.

Porter · « **Reply #763 on:** August 17, 2008, 06:09:19 PM »

I personally am against the notion that a word's etymology should effect it's pluralization in English. Once it's English, it's English.

Let's hear it for radiuses!

Jonathon · « **Reply #764 on:** August 17, 2008, 07:53:38 PM »

I concur. I think etymology is often a poor guide to modern usage, though it can be helpful to compare historical usage to modern usage.

The Genuine · « **Reply #765 on:** August 17, 2008, 09:04:13 PM »

Okay, but does that mean you'd opt for "octopi" over "octopuses" ?

Perhaps I should ask the other fora.

Tante Shvester · « **Reply #766 on:** August 17, 2008, 10:37:54 PM »

No, octopi is just wrong. 'puses is OK, though.

The Genuine · « **Reply #767 on:** August 18, 2008, 09:45:57 AM »

Please, not at work, Tante!

Jonathon · « **Reply #768 on:** August 18, 2008, 01:49:30 PM »

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Okay, but does that mean you'd opt for "octopi" over "octopuses" ?

Perhaps I should ask the other fora.

No, I wouldn't. I tend to prefer English plurals, but when I go for plurals from the original language, I try to do it correctly. Octopi is sort of a morphological chimera.

Jonathon · « **Reply #769 on:** October 21, 2008, 04:26:49 PM »

Holy cow. I haven't posted to this thread in forever.

The verb listen is a causative formed from the obsolete noun list, meaning "hearing" or "sense of hearing". So listen originally meant something like "to cause to hear". List comes from an extended form of the Proto-Indo-European root *klu/kleu, which became *hlus in Proto-Germanic. The h disappeared at the end of the Old English period, though I'm not sure where the t came from.

A passive participial form of *hlu gives us the adjective loud. The passive participial would have meant something like "been heard", so something that has been heard must be loud enough to not be drowned out by other noises.

goofy · « **Reply #770 on:** October 22, 2008, 06:50:46 AM »

The OED says the t in listen is an English invention. It was added due to association with list. list is cognate with German lüstern, and listen is cognate with Middle High German lüsenen.

Annie Subjunctive · « **Reply #771 on:** October 22, 2008, 08:25:57 AM »

Does anyone know if Hebrew has a causative?

Jonathon · « **Reply #772 on:** October 22, 2008, 08:31:19 AM »

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The OED says the t in listen is an English invention. It was added due to association with list. list is cognate with German lüstern, and listen is cognate with Middle High German lüsenen.

Sorry, I wasn't clear—I was talking about the t in list. It gives the PIE root as *klus and then a Proto-Germanic *hlust-iz. I wasn't sure what that tiz was.

Tante Shvester · « **Reply #773 on:** October 22, 2008, 10:13:03 PM »

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Does anyone know if Hebrew has a causative?

Yes, I'm sure that someone does. I am not that someone, however.

rivka · « **Reply #774 on:** October 22, 2008, 10:34:59 PM »

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Does anyone know if Hebrew has a causative?

It certainly does.

Hebrew has seven binyanim. The fifth and sixth (hiph'il and hiph'al) are almost exclusively causative; the third is sometimes causative. (The example wikipedia gives, contrasting lilmod and lilamed, is classic.)