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Offline Jonathon

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The random etymology of the day
« Reply #675 on: May 15, 2008, 01:51:32 PM »
You underestimate my ability to take things seriously!

Offline Annie Subjunctive

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« Reply #676 on: May 15, 2008, 02:16:54 PM »
<--- too lazy to read the whole thread
"It is true, however, that the opposite of Little Rock, Arkansas is Boulder, Colorado." - Tante

Offline Noemon

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The random etymology of the day
« Reply #677 on: May 19, 2008, 11:50:10 AM »
<-- Too forgetful to remember the whole thread.
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I hope you have a wonderful adventure in Taiwan. Not a swashbuckling adventure, just a prawn flavored pringles adventure.

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Offline Tante Shvester

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The random etymology of the day
« Reply #678 on: May 19, 2008, 12:32:41 PM »
In reading Moby Dick, I find that "filibuster" comes from the Dutch word for "pirate".  Now I want to picture those senators in puffy shirts, swashbuckling around the Senate, and fencing off the chandeliers.

Also, I'm trying to understand the etymology of "mushroom".  Even after reading about it, I don't know from up.

Mushroom
Quote
mushroom
    1440 (attested as a surname, John Mussheron, from 1327), from Anglo-Fr. musherun, perhaps from L.L. mussirionem (nom. mussirio), though this may as well be borrowed from Fr. Barnhart says "of uncertain origin." Klein calls it "a word of pre-Latin origin, used in the North of France;" OED says it usually is held to be a derivative of Fr. mousse "moss," and Weekley agrees, saying it is properly "applied to variety which grows in moss." For the final -m he refers to grogram, vellum, venom. Used figuratively for "sudden appearance in full form" from 1590s. The verb meaning "expand or increase rapidly" is first recorded 1903. In ref. to the shape of clouds after explosions, etc., it is attested from 1916, though the actual phrase mushroom cloud does not appear until 1958.
[/url]
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Offline Jonathon

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The random etymology of the day
« Reply #679 on: May 19, 2008, 12:41:41 PM »
Basically, nobody's sure where the word came from. Some say it ultimately goes back to Latin, some say it's pre-Latin. I think that means a language that existed before Latin came to the area, meaning (presumably) Gaulish.  
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Offline Tante Shvester

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The random etymology of the day
« Reply #680 on: May 19, 2008, 12:44:59 PM »
There was a language before Latin?  Did those ancient Roman kids study it to prepare for their SAT's?
Fighting thread drift with guilt, reverse psychology, and chicken soup.
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I love Bones.  -- Sweet Clementine
She grew on him like she was a colony of E. coli and he was room-temperature Canadian beef. -- anonymous

Offline Porter

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« Reply #681 on: May 19, 2008, 12:47:12 PM »
They had to study Greek.
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Offline Tante Shvester

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The random etymology of the day
« Reply #682 on: May 19, 2008, 12:48:30 PM »
Next, you're going to tell me that those Ancient Greek kids had to study Hebrew to prepare for their SAT's, huh?
Fighting thread drift with guilt, reverse psychology, and chicken soup.
Sweet! Law of Moses loopholes! -- Anneke
I love Bones.  -- Sweet Clementine
She grew on him like she was a colony of E. coli and he was room-temperature Canadian beef. -- anonymous

Offline Jonathon

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The random etymology of the day
« Reply #683 on: May 19, 2008, 12:54:51 PM »
No, because the ancient Greeks didn't have SATs. They had ???s instead.
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Offline Annie Subjunctive

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« Reply #684 on: May 20, 2008, 09:11:17 AM »
I walked into my French Lit class on National Talk Like a Pirate Day and sat next to Pascal. Pascal was a tiny, dark-haired, skinny-jeaned, Roman-nosed Gaul from Nimes who entertained me to no end. He made fun of the other students' accents and let me in on the joke, so I felt immensely flattered.

"Salut Pascal! Did you know that today is National Talk Like a Pirate Day?"

"National what?"

"National Talk Like a Pirate Day, ye scurvy cur! How do pirates talk in French?"

"Pirates don't speak French."

"Yes they do. There were French pirates."

"No. My nation is so civilized that we never engaged in such barbaric behavior. When we captured English pirates, we threw them in the Bastille and made them learn French. It made them civilized again."

"Ah, oui?"

"In fact, we don't even have a word for pirate in French."

"Oh, come on. You have to. What did you call the English pirates you threw in the Bastille, then?"

"Anglais. It's a synonym for pirate."

I wanted to prove him wrong, so I got out my little Larousse. Not only was there a French word for pirate, there were FIVE French words for pirate. One of them, coincidentally, is pirate.

"Pirate, écumeur, forban, flibustier, corsair," I read to Pascal. "What are all of those words for."

"Ah, le Français," he smiled. "Quelle belle langue. We have such poetry, that we created five beautiful words to mean anglais!"
"It is true, however, that the opposite of Little Rock, Arkansas is Boulder, Colorado." - Tante

Offline Jonathon

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The random etymology of the day
« Reply #685 on: May 20, 2008, 09:26:59 AM »
The English yester is strange among Germanic languages in that it is usually prefixed to another word while all its cognates in other languages stand alone; the Dutch and German equivalents are gisteren and gestern, respectively (not gesterndag or some such). It appears that it was formerly used to refer to either the past or the present (that is, it meant either "yesterday" or "tomorrow"), but at some point became limited to just the past.

The word ultimately comes from a comparative form of the PIE root *ghes. In Latin this root became heri, which presumably is the source of the modern French hier, meaning "yesterday."
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Offline rivka

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« Reply #686 on: May 21, 2008, 10:04:00 AM »
Quote
"Ah, le Français," he smiled. "Quelle belle langue. We have such poetry, that we created five beautiful words to mean anglais!"
 :lol:  
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Offline Neutros the Radioactive Dragon

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The random etymology of the day
« Reply #687 on: May 21, 2008, 10:27:15 AM »
Frogs.

Offline Annie Subjunctive

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« Reply #688 on: May 21, 2008, 01:17:59 PM »
Frogs? He was charming!
"It is true, however, that the opposite of Little Rock, Arkansas is Boulder, Colorado." - Tante

Offline Farmgirl

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The random etymology of the day
« Reply #689 on: June 02, 2008, 05:46:55 AM »
I have no idea which thread to put this in..

Hey, JonBoy -- when you have a moment -- check my Facebook.   On my current status message, I struggled for several minutes as to whether it should be "were" or "was".  I can't get either one to sound correct when I say it outloud.

I don't want to look like a grammar idiot by having it wrong, so tell me if I should correct it.  (Or, I guess I could just delete it entirely and that would solve the problem).
« Last Edit: June 02, 2008, 05:47:12 AM by Farmgirl »
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Being a farmer is not something that you do—it is something that you are.


If I could eat only one fruit, I wouldn't choose the blueberry. It is too small. I'd go with watermelon. There is a lot to eat on a watermelon. - Tante

Offline Noemon

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The random etymology of the day
« Reply #690 on: June 02, 2008, 06:11:29 AM »
::curious about the sentence in question, but has no access to facebook::
I wish more people were able to be like me. 
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I hope you have a wonderful adventure in Taiwan. Not a swashbuckling adventure, just a prawn flavored pringles adventure.

-pooka

Offline Farmgirl

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« Reply #691 on: June 02, 2008, 06:29:44 AM »
Do you even HAVE a Facebook, Jake?  :P

On Facebook, you give your status in third person, kinda.

Mine currently says: Tracy wishes she were young enough to play ultimate frisbee!
« Last Edit: June 02, 2008, 06:30:47 AM by Farmgirl »
"Farming looks mighty easy when your plow is a pencil and you’re a thousand miles from the corn field." - Dwight D. Eisenhower

Being a farmer is not something that you do—it is something that you are.


If I could eat only one fruit, I wouldn't choose the blueberry. It is too small. I'd go with watermelon. There is a lot to eat on a watermelon. - Tante

Offline Porter

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« Reply #692 on: June 02, 2008, 07:14:48 AM »
Were.
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Offline Brinestone

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The random etymology of the day
« Reply #693 on: June 02, 2008, 07:19:50 AM »
Yup. Use the subjunctive were when the hypothetical in question is not the case. Use was if you're not sure if it's the case or not. Here's an example of the difference, but using love instead:

1. If he loved you, he wouldn't treat you this way.
2. If he loves you, he's sure subtle about it.
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Offline Porter

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« Reply #694 on: June 02, 2008, 07:23:50 AM »
In English, we only have subjunctive for past-tense (or something like tense), correct?
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Offline Noemon

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« Reply #695 on: June 02, 2008, 07:37:01 AM »
Quote
Do you even HAVE a Facebook, Jake?  :P


 
Nope.  I'm not really a big fan of the social networking sites in general, I think.  I've been considering deleting my myspace account, but there are a couple of people I know I'd lose touch with if I were to do so.

Quote
Mine currently says: Tracy wishes she were young enough to play ultimate frisbee!

Ah, okay.  "Were."
I wish more people were able to be like me. 
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I'm about perfect.
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I hope you have a wonderful adventure in Taiwan. Not a swashbuckling adventure, just a prawn flavored pringles adventure.

-pooka

Offline Jonathon

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The random etymology of the day
« Reply #696 on: June 02, 2008, 08:09:58 AM »
Quote
In English, we only have subjunctive for past-tense (or something like tense), correct?
Nope. There is also a present-tense subjunctive, as in "It is important that you be there on time." But the subjunctive is only different in the past and present forms of be and in the third-person singular present tense form of anything else (as in "It is important that you go to work").
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Offline goofy

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The random etymology of the day
« Reply #697 on: June 02, 2008, 09:20:28 AM »
Quote
In English, we only have subjunctive for past-tense (or something like tense), correct?
There are four forms that are commonly called the subjunctive in English.

1. the frozen subjunctive, which exists in set phrases like "God save the queen" and "be that as it may". 

2. the uninflected form used in dependent clauses (called the "mandative subjunctive") often after verbs like ask, demand, recommend, suggest, insist, be advisable, be necessary.
I insist that you be quiet. 
I demand that this cease. 

3. the inverted had and were used in counterfactual clauses:
Had I known this yesterday, I would have done something. 
Were I going to Paris, I would learn French. 

4. the were form used with first and third person singular in counterfactual clauses:
If I were in Paris, I would learn French. 
I wish she weren'’t going away. 

The were form is descended from the Old English past subjunctive, and that's presumably why we call it the past subjunctive, even tho it has nothing to do with past time.

There's nothing wrong with using was instead of were in counterfactual sentences like Tracy wishes she was young enough to play ultimate frisbee or If I was in Paris, I would learn French. Merriam-Webster's Dictionary of English Usage and The Oxford Companion to the English Language say this is a standard use.  Both was and were have been used interchangeably in writing for 300 years. The only places where were still survives robustly is if I were you and as it were.

Offline Jonathon

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The random etymology of the day
« Reply #698 on: June 02, 2008, 09:25:31 AM »
I wouldn't say there's nothing wrong with using "was" instead of "were." As with most items of disputed usage, some people will judge you for it. And because the subjunctive is actually based in grammatical fact (unlike the injunction against split infinitives or stranded prepositions), the judgement is also somewhat rooted in fact. The subjunctive may be slowly going extinct, but it's still in pretty common use.
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Offline rivka

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« Reply #699 on: June 02, 2008, 09:28:59 AM »
*shakes head sadly*

goofy, up until that last paragraph, I was ready to propose.

*sad sigh* Alas!
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