Author Topic: The random etymology of the day (Read 237943 times)

Jonathon · « **Reply #525 on:** July 17, 2007, 11:48:39 AM »

By the way, the suffix -ery is not native to English; it comes from French.

pooka · « **Reply #526 on:** July 24, 2007, 12:15:28 PM »

Ooh, check out affidavit and fiancee. I looked affidavit up because i saw the word "affiant" going with both that and Affirm. I'm studying my Notary handbook.

Farmgirl · « **Reply #527 on:** July 30, 2007, 07:32:47 AM »

Okay - we had a conversation that ended this weekend with "I need to ask Jon Boy that".

So, I won't relate the whole conversation, but we were wondering where the how the terminology of the word "goon" got started. We are talking about "goon" in the terms of a bodyguard, thug, big-guy-for-hire type of thing.

Have any ideas?

Jonathon · « **Reply #528 on:** July 30, 2007, 08:45:15 AM »

I didn't have any ideas, but this seems to answer your question.

Farmgirl · « **Reply #529 on:** July 30, 2007, 09:02:43 AM »

WHAT??? You looked it up on a WEBSITE?? Gee, I coulda done that! I'm so disappointed in you, JB...

Jonathon · « **Reply #530 on:** July 30, 2007, 09:13:41 AM »

You think I know all these answers off the top of my head?

Porter · « **Reply #531 on:** July 30, 2007, 09:32:07 AM »

She expects you to look them up in your spellbook.

TheTick · « **Reply #532 on:** July 30, 2007, 09:33:10 AM »

I think the pertinent imagery is you plowing through dusty old tomes, reading glasses perched low on your nose as you research. Think Gandalf researching the ring in Fellowship.

Farmgirl · « **Reply #533 on:** July 30, 2007, 10:53:18 AM »

EXACTLY -- the Tick has it.

That, and, of course, I expect Jon to be so frickin' brilliant that he just remembers ALL this stuff from when he studied it in college -- you know, I'm sure they went over every single English word while he was there....

Jonathon · « **Reply #534 on:** July 30, 2007, 10:57:51 AM »

How do you know I didn't sleep through most of my Every Single Word in the English Language course? And perhaps someday I'll be cool enough to pore over dusty old tomes, but right now I just rely on the Oxford English Dictionary and Etymonline.com.

Err, I mean, pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!

Tante Shvester · « **Reply #535 on:** August 07, 2007, 06:05:57 AM »

Orange. I know that the name of the fruit is from something like "naranj", but because it was such a luxury item, you'd only have one at a time. "A naranj" not a whole pile or "naranjes", and people got "a naranj" mixed up with "an aranj", so the fruit came to be "orange" in English. Now the name of the fruit came before the name of the color in English. We call the color orange "orange" after the fruit.

What I can't find out is what English speakers called that color before they had oranges in England. I mean, there was that color. I just don't know the word for it.

Do you?

Farmgirl · « **Reply #536 on:** August 07, 2007, 07:32:58 AM »

Quote

As many of you know, our name, Portokalos, is come from the Greek word "portokali," which mean "orange." So, okay? Here tonight, we have, ah, apple and orange. We all different, but in the end, we all fruit.

[/Big Fat Greek Wedding]

Jonathon · « **Reply #537 on:** August 07, 2007, 07:35:16 AM »

I don't. My best guess is that there wasn't a separate term for the color orange before that time. Most languages accumulate color names as time goes on, and orange is typically one of the last acquired.

Tante Shvester · « **Reply #538 on:** August 07, 2007, 07:37:06 AM »

Maybe "tawny"? "Amber"? "Nasturtium"?

Jonathon · « **Reply #539 on:** August 07, 2007, 07:37:57 AM »

Quote

Quote
As many of you know, our name, Portokalos, is come from the Greek word "portokali," which mean "orange." So, okay? Here tonight, we have, ah, apple and orange. We all different, but in the end, we all fruit.

[/Big Fat Greek Wedding]

Interesting. I was just looking up "orange" on Etymonline.com, and it mentions that modern Greek still distinguishes between bitter oranges (nerantzi) and sweet oranges (portokali). The latter gained its name because it was brought to Europe by Portuguese traders.

Jonathon · « **Reply #540 on:** August 07, 2007, 07:39:28 AM »

Quote

Maybe "tawny"? "Amber"? "Nasturtium"?

More likely, people just used "yellow" or "red."

Tante Shvester · « **Reply #541 on:** August 07, 2007, 07:44:52 AM »

Yeah, well, I always thought that redheads were more orange-headed than red-headed.

I suppose folk might have said something like "carrot colored".

The Wikipedia article on the color says that before they called it "orange", the Old English word was "geoluhread" (yellow-red), but I doubt folk were going around talking Old English when oranges burst onto the English scene and lent their name to the color.

Porter · « **Reply #542 on:** August 07, 2007, 05:06:05 PM »

Posh and Vice.

Tante Shvester · « **Reply #543 on:** August 08, 2007, 09:22:39 AM »

Oh! I know "posh". It is an acronym for "port out, starboard home", because that was the best views while sailing, so all the upper crusty folk booked those cabins.

And vice, I think is from French, so, probably from Latin, meaning "wrongness".

Hokey smokes! I looked it up, and whaddaya know -- I'm right!

Porter · « **Reply #544 on:** August 08, 2007, 09:27:00 AM »

Actually, it's because while going on vacation to Egypt and the like, they got to be in the shade in both directions, but yeah, you're right.

Tante Shvester · « **Reply #545 on:** August 08, 2007, 09:28:20 AM »

But of course!

Jonathon · « **Reply #546 on:** August 08, 2007, 09:29:24 AM »

Posh is of uncertain origin, but it is almost certainly not from an acronym. Anytime someone tells you that a particular word originates from an acronym, remember this: acronyms were not commonly used in English until World War II, and many of the words that came from acronyms are military in origin.

Edit: I'm surprised that the Snopes page on acronyms doesn't list posh.

Porter · « **Reply #547 on:** August 08, 2007, 02:39:03 PM »

What are there reasons why it's almost certainly not from an acronym, besides the fact that they generally weren't?

Jonathon · « **Reply #548 on:** August 08, 2007, 03:00:57 PM »

The complete lack of evidence is pretty conclusive. If "POSH" had been printed on tickets for passengers sailing to India, then there'd be some tangible proof nailing down the date it was coined and confirming the origin. But even though tickets from that era exist, no one has ever seen one that says "POSH."

This article has more detail.

Not to mention that the acronym theory entails a couple of (at least to me) fairly big leaps. The rich people paid extra to be in the shade the whole trip, even though it meant switching rooms at the halfway point? How big of a difference in shade was there between the two sides? Since when did sitting in the shade equate swankiness?

Porter · « **Reply #549 on:** August 08, 2007, 03:20:38 PM »

But I read it!!!!