Author Topic: The random etymology of the day (Read 222598 times)

Annie Subjunctive · « **Reply #1075 on:** May 12, 2010, 04:30:29 PM »

Regardless of the article, the comic is Hilarity Win.

Jonathon · « **Reply #1076 on:** May 14, 2010, 09:59:01 PM »

The word govern apparently comes from the same root as cybernetics. Cybernetics was originally the study of communication and control in organisms and machines, and it traces back to the Greek kybernan, meaning "to steer". This Greek root was borrowed into Latin and became gubernare, meaning "to steer or direct". This eventually became the French verb governer, which was then borrowed into English.

Neutros the Radioactive Dragon · « **Reply #1077 on:** May 15, 2010, 06:09:29 AM »

Gives new meaning to "Governator".

Annie Subjunctive · « **Reply #1078 on:** May 15, 2010, 08:27:46 AM »

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Gives new meaning to "Governator".

50 points to Gryffindor.

Neutros the Radioactive Dragon · « **Reply #1079 on:** May 15, 2010, 08:29:14 AM »

Why must you penalize Slytherin so?

Jonathon · « **Reply #1080 on:** May 15, 2010, 09:16:35 AM »

I was hoping someone would spot the joke opportunity there.

Neutros the Radioactive Dragon · « **Reply #1081 on:** May 15, 2010, 09:34:46 AM »

I had to knock down that setup, being a California Dragon.

BlackBlade · « **Reply #1082 on:** May 24, 2010, 12:07:33 PM »

So when we say, "Tom was bested by Mark." We are saying Mark prevailed against Tom in some sort of activity. Logically it follows then that if we say, "Tom was worsted by Mark," that Tom is the victor this time. Instead, the two statements are synonyms. How did this happen?!

rivka · « **Reply #1083 on:** May 24, 2010, 12:28:27 PM »

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Logically it follows then that if we say, "Tom was worsted by Mark," that Tom is the victor this time.

Uh . . . it does? I was aware it meant anything. To me "worsted" is a yarn/fabric, and nothing more.

Jonathon · « **Reply #1084 on:** May 24, 2010, 12:57:08 PM »

I can't remember ever hearing it before, but it's in both the OED and Merriam-Webster. As to why they're apparently synonyms . . . well, language is just weird like that sometimes.

BlackBlade · « **Reply #1085 on:** May 24, 2010, 01:48:03 PM »

I guess so!

Jonathon · « **Reply #1086 on:** June 02, 2010, 11:32:14 AM »

The word diploma comes from a Greek word meaning 'a doubling' (and is related to the word double). It referred to an official document which was folded in half.

The word diplomat is a French backformation from diplomatique (meaning 'diplomatic'), which originally meant 'pertaining to documents'. The use of diplomatic to refer to international relations comes from the use of the modern Latin diplomaticus in "titles of collections of international treaties, etc., in which the word refered to the 'texts' but came to be felt as meaning 'pertaining to international relations.'"

rivka · « **Reply #1087 on:** June 02, 2010, 11:48:38 AM »

So a diplomat is a paper-folder?

BlackBlade · « **Reply #1088 on:** June 02, 2010, 11:52:32 AM »

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So a diplomat is a paper-folder?

Suddenly my chosen vocations seems kinda lame. Curse you Greek language!

rivka · « **Reply #1089 on:** June 02, 2010, 12:15:06 PM »

Pfft. Before this, I would have said that a diplomat is a paper-PUSHER.

The Genuine · « **Reply #1090 on:** June 09, 2010, 09:27:38 AM »

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First up: the word sycophant, from Robin Waterfield's thoroughly enjoyable book Why Socrates Died (Faber, 2009) which I reviewed for the paper a few weeks back.

To paraphrase Waterfield: one of the vagaries of the classical Athenian judicial system was that it gave people the opportunity to make money out of threatening to take others to court.

These blackmailers were called sycophants. The origin of the word is this. Since the beginning of the 6th century it had been illegal to export food, except olives, from Athenian territory. Sometimes, though, people would try to smuggle figs over the border. If someone denounced you as a fig-smuggler, he was a sykophantes – a "tale-teller about figs". Waterfield: "If it was part of his purpose to ingratiate himself with the authorities, he was close to being a sycophant in the modern sense of the word."

The second cropped up at the weekend when I was reading A Woman Scorn'd, a collection of essays about the Dido myth edited by Michael Burden (Faber, 1998).

The word is "sardonic", and it crops up in the essay Domesticating Dido by James Davidson. He is talking about the ancient Phoenician and Carthaginian habit of child-sacrifice. I quote:

"There is evidence that the victims were supposed to be willing. Not only were mothers forbidden to wail, but ancient traditions on the meaning of 'sardonic smile' claim it derives from the 'smile' worn by those sacrificed by the Phoenician and Carthaginian colonisers of Sardinia. If the victims were prisoners of war or old men, then they tried to smile bravely, and if the victims were children, their grimaces of pain were interpreted as happy grins."

Even if the etymology is fanciful (and a fair number of ancient etymological explanations are) it's still going to make me shiver every time I use the word...

Jonathon · « **Reply #1091 on:** June 09, 2010, 09:39:54 AM »

It sounds like he's wrong on both counts, which isn't terribly surprising, given both the tendency of laypeople to pass around bogus etymologies and the reputation of the Grauniad.

From the OED:

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sycophant
The origin of the Gr. word, lit. = ‘fig-shower’, has not been satisfactorily accounted for. The explanation, long current, that it orig. meant an informer against the unlawful exportation of figs cannot be substantiated. It is possible that the term referred orig. to the gesture of ‘making a fig’ or had an obscene implication: cf. FIG n.

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The Latin adj. is ad. Gr. Sardinian, which in late Gr. was substituted for sardanios (Homer, etc.; of obscure origin), as the descriptive epithet of bitter or scornful laughter; the motive of the substitution was the notion that the word had primary reference to the effects of eating a ‘Sardinian plant’ (L. herba Sardonia or Sarda), which was said to produce facial convulsions resembling horrible laughter, usually followed by death.

And as for "even if the etymology is fanciful . . . it's still going to make me shiver every time I use the word," well, that's just stupid. Why should a fabrication make him shiver? I could start making up creepy etymologies off the top of my head; would those make him shiver too?

BlackBlade · « **Reply #1092 on:** June 09, 2010, 09:44:29 AM »

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And as for "even if the etymology is fanciful . . . it's still going to make me shiver every time I use the word," well, that's just stupid. Why should a fabrication make him shiver? I could start making up creepy etymologies off the top of my head; would those make him shiver too?

That might make for a fun book. "False Etymologies You Hope to God Are Not True."

The Genuine · « **Reply #1093 on:** June 09, 2010, 09:55:30 AM »

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And as for "even if the etymology is fanciful . . . it's still going to make me shiver every time I use the word," well, that's just stupid. Why should a fabrication make him shiver? I could start making up creepy etymologies off the top of my head; would those make him shiver too?

I could try but you'd probably delete my account right quick. :devil:

Scott R · « **Reply #1094 on:** June 09, 2010, 09:59:42 AM »

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Why should a fabrication make him shiver?

Just because it isn't real doesn't mean it's not dread-inducing.

Jonathon · « **Reply #1095 on:** June 09, 2010, 12:23:59 PM »

No, but the fact that he suspects that it's not true means that it's kind of silly for him to give it the power to creep him out. I mean, if I told him there was possibly a bloodsucking monster under his bed, should he be scared?

rivka · « **Reply #1096 on:** June 09, 2010, 12:30:48 PM »

I guess that depends on how evocative your description of said monster was.

Annie Subjunctive · « **Reply #1097 on:** June 09, 2010, 03:31:28 PM »

There's a sardonic monster under your bed...

rivka · « **Reply #1098 on:** June 09, 2010, 07:47:50 PM »

My bed has no "under"; it's drawers all the way down.

Tante Shvester · « **Reply #1099 on:** August 03, 2010, 10:47:16 PM »

What do you suppose the "meta" in "Metamucil" is about?