Chocolate Troi

[Porter]

One of our baby goats is named Troi (the sister of Picard and Riker), and is a rich chocolate color.  She gets called "Chocolate Troi" by the children.

When I say "Chocolate Troi", the first sound of each word sounds identical.  "Troi" sounds like "chroy".  Is this normal?  Is this just happening because it's being said after "chocolate"?

[Noemon]

"Chroi" is really hard for me to say.  My mouth just doesn't want to move in  that way.

When I say "Chocolate Troi" (which I've been sitting here in my cube doing for the last minute or so, probably to the bemusement of my coworkers), it ends up coming out either "chocolate 'troi" or "chocola' tshroi", depending on the way some butterfly in China's wings are flapping.  In the former case, there's a suggestion of an "sh" sound to the "t" in "troi", but it isn't very pronounced.

[Porter]

I just realized that I don't pronounce the 't' at the end of 'chocolate' when I'm saying those two words together.  My tongue goes up to the top of my mouth, but it just kinda stays there, ending the word.  Is that a glottal stop?

edit: Or if I'm saying it fast, the 't' just gets skipped.

[Noemon]

Yeah, I do the same thing if I'm saying the word by itself.

The sound that I make out of the "T" in "Troi" really isn't quite an "sh" or a "ch" sound.  Kind of a "tch", but not exactly.

[Porter]

I don't think that there's a difference between "tch" and "ch" to me.

But then, I also don't think there's a difference between how I pronounce "where", "wear", and "ware".

[Jonathon]

In English, when /t/ is followed by /r/, it becomes more retroflex, meaning the tip of the tongue curls towards the roof of the mouth. The combination of a retroflex /t/ and /r/ sounds a lot like /t?r/ ("chr"), but not quite.

Noemon: There isn't any difference between "ch" and "tch"; or rather, if you think there's a difference, that doesn't seem to capture it. The IPA symbol for the "ch" sound is actually two symbols (sometimes written as a ligature): /t?/. It's just the symbol for "t" plus the one for "sh." So if "ch" is /t?/, then "tch" is /tt?/, which probably isn't what you meant.

Porter: There probably isn't any difference between your pronunciations of "where," "wear," and "ware." Presumably you also pronounce "whale" and "wail" the same, and "marry," "merry," and "Mary" the same.

[Porter]

Yup.  My pronunciation space appears to be quite cramped.

[pooka]

I noticed this when I was in Middle school, thinking about my name at the time, Tricia Chiu.  (Chiu being pronounced Choo- the i doesn't do anything.)