GalacticCactus Forum

Author Topic: Vulgar?  (Read 2950 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline The Genuine

  • Ambcloacador of Right On
  • Super Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 3,570
    • View Profile
Vulgar?
« on: July 30, 2008, 11:42:40 AM »
It's been discussed on the fora how "dork" is a phallic reference.  Along those lines, is "suck" a vulgar term when used in a sentence such as "This movie sucks" ?

If not a reference to fellatio, what's the origin of "suck" as a word of negative connotation?
I think Jesse's right.

 -- Jonathon

Offline Porter

  • ruining funny with facts
  • Übermember
  • *****
  • Posts: 22,333
  • long time lurker, first time poster
    • View Profile
Vulgar?
« Reply #1 on: July 30, 2008, 11:52:41 AM »
That is the origin of the word "suck".

Also, we've discussed such things multiple times in the past.  You're not breaking any new ground here.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2008, 11:53:19 AM by Porteiro »
Tomorrow Poster
Sooner or later, this forum is going to max out on hyperliteralness.

Offline The Genuine

  • Ambcloacador of Right On
  • Super Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 3,570
    • View Profile
Vulgar?
« Reply #2 on: July 30, 2008, 02:20:44 PM »
I suspect I'd have a rather difficult time breaking new ground when asking about linguistics around here.

What I saw in the dictionary was that the root word had to do with suckling, as in breastfeeding, and was related to soaking, or infusing with moisture.  I didn't see a fellatio connection.

However, when used in a negative sense, it is related to fellatio?  I could also see it being a reference to the immature and weak baby state of a suckler.
I think Jesse's right.

 -- Jonathon

Offline Porter

  • ruining funny with facts
  • Übermember
  • *****
  • Posts: 22,333
  • long time lurker, first time poster
    • View Profile
Vulgar?
« Reply #3 on: July 30, 2008, 02:27:09 PM »
I can't find a link, but there was an NPR piece I listened to a bit ago that talked about vulgar words and how their usage changes over time.  The linguist they were talking to said something to the effect of "For example, back when I was a kid, when you said "you suck", everybody knew what it meant that you were sucking.  But today, the original sexual meaning of the word has largely disappeared."
Tomorrow Poster
Sooner or later, this forum is going to max out on hyperliteralness.

Offline The Genuine

  • Ambcloacador of Right On
  • Super Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 3,570
    • View Profile
Vulgar?
« Reply #4 on: July 30, 2008, 02:34:47 PM »
But what were you sucking when you said "you suck"?  Isn't sucking a teet demeaning as well?
I think Jesse's right.

 -- Jonathon

Offline goofy

  • Veteran Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 154
    • View Profile
    • http://
Vulgar?
« Reply #5 on: July 30, 2008, 03:01:05 PM »
Quote
However, when used in a negative sense, it is related to fellatio?
etymonline says yes, but who knows where they got that information.

The Oxford English Dictionary is the place to look since they record every use of a word, even obsolete ones. If the negative sense had to do with fellatio at one point, they might know.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2008, 03:01:33 PM by goofy »

Offline Jonathon

  • Evil T-Rex
  • Administrator
  • Übermember
  • *****
  • Posts: 24,680
  • This is the darkest timeline
    • View Profile
    • GalacticCactus
Vulgar?
« Reply #6 on: July 30, 2008, 06:27:41 PM »
The OED doesn't explicitly say—at least not that I can see—that usages like "This movie sucks" descend from suck meaning "to practice fellatio." When a word has as many meanings as "suck" does, it can be difficult if not impossible to tell which came from which. You can't exactly go back in time and ask speakers or writers which particular meaning they intended, and you can only infer so much from context and relative timelines.

That said, the "fellatio" meaning seems to date to the early 20th century, while there are meanings like "to draw the goodness from" or "to rob of resources" that go back to to the 16th century. There's also a definition for the noun "suck" (sometimes "suck-in") meaning "a deception; a disappointing event or result" that dates to the mid-19th century and an expression of contempt "sucks to you!" that dates to the early 20th century. These all predate the "fellatio" sense, and they also seem more in line with the meaning of "this sucks."

In light of all that, I think it's possible or even likely that this meaning of "sucks" did not originate from the "fellatio" sense, though I think they became conflated at some point. Of course, later generations seem to have lost that association.
You underestimate my ability to take things seriously!

Offline Tante Shvester

  • Souper Member
  • Super Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 9,868
    • View Profile
    • About Tante
Vulgar?
« Reply #7 on: July 31, 2008, 09:49:50 AM »
I've heard the insult (although not lately), "Your grandmother sucks eggs".


I have no idea what that means.
Fighting thread drift with guilt, reverse psychology, and chicken soup.
Sweet! Law of Moses loopholes! -- Anneke
I love Bones.  -- Sweet Clementine
She grew on him like she was a colony of E. coli and he was room-temperature Canadian beef. -- anonymous

Offline Porter

  • ruining funny with facts
  • Übermember
  • *****
  • Posts: 22,333
  • long time lurker, first time poster
    • View Profile
Vulgar?
« Reply #8 on: July 31, 2008, 10:06:43 AM »
Well, there's the phrase "egg-sucking dog", which I believe has farmyard origins.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2008, 10:07:04 AM by Porteiro »
Tomorrow Poster
Sooner or later, this forum is going to max out on hyperliteralness.

Offline Annie Subjunctive

  • Hausfrau
  • Übermember
  • *****
  • Posts: 10,921
    • View Profile
Vulgar?
« Reply #9 on: August 03, 2008, 04:06:24 PM »
My mom would never let us say "this sucks" when we were growing up. Only later did I discover what she was objecting to.
"It is true, however, that the opposite of Little Rock, Arkansas is Boulder, Colorado." - Tante

Offline dkw

  • Super Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,016
    • View Profile
Vulgar?
« Reply #10 on: August 03, 2008, 07:57:51 PM »
Quote
an expression of contempt "sucks to you!" that dates to the early 20th century.
I have only ever heard (and possibly used) "sucks to be you.  

Offline Porter

  • ruining funny with facts
  • Übermember
  • *****
  • Posts: 22,333
  • long time lurker, first time poster
    • View Profile
Vulgar?
« Reply #11 on: August 03, 2008, 09:19:48 PM »
I wonder if "shucks" is related to "sucks".
Tomorrow Poster
Sooner or later, this forum is going to max out on hyperliteralness.

Offline Tante Shvester

  • Souper Member
  • Super Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 9,868
    • View Profile
    • About Tante
Vulgar?
« Reply #12 on: August 03, 2008, 10:09:40 PM »
Maybe, but it's hardly used the same way, no?
Fighting thread drift with guilt, reverse psychology, and chicken soup.
Sweet! Law of Moses loopholes! -- Anneke
I love Bones.  -- Sweet Clementine
She grew on him like she was a colony of E. coli and he was room-temperature Canadian beef. -- anonymous

Offline Porter

  • ruining funny with facts
  • Übermember
  • *****
  • Posts: 22,333
  • long time lurker, first time poster
    • View Profile
Vulgar?
« Reply #13 on: August 04, 2008, 07:34:02 AM »
No, but I still wonder.
Tomorrow Poster
Sooner or later, this forum is going to max out on hyperliteralness.

Offline Jonathon

  • Evil T-Rex
  • Administrator
  • Übermember
  • *****
  • Posts: 24,680
  • This is the darkest timeline
    • View Profile
    • GalacticCactus
Vulgar?
« Reply #14 on: August 04, 2008, 11:28:56 AM »
Shucks the interjection comes from the noun shuck, meaning "a husk, pod, or shell," according to the OED. It then came to mean something worthless and then evolved into the interjection we know today.  
You underestimate my ability to take things seriously!

Offline rivka

  • Linguistic Anarchist
  • Übermember
  • *****
  • Posts: 14,155
    • View Profile
Vulgar?
« Reply #15 on: August 13, 2008, 04:48:04 AM »
Aw, shucks.
"Sometimes you need a weirdo to tell you that things have gotten weird. Your normal friends, neighbors, and coworkers won’t tell you."
-Aaron Kunin