Author Topic: Phonology Question (Read 1575 times)

saxon75 · « **on:** July 24, 2007, 05:58:01 PM »

A co-worker of mine was trying to convince me that intervocalic alveolar tapping in words like "butter" is specific to California, and specifically that in the Midwest they don't do that. The sound he was claiming Midwesterners use sounded to me like an aspirated voiceless alveolar plosive, which sounded very strange to me.

He was also claiming that what people consider "unaccented" English--due to movies and TV--these days is California English, whereas my understanding has been that the standard accent is closer to a general Midwestern accent.

Does anyone know whether my co-worker is correct or talking out of his butt?

Porter · « **Reply #1 on:** July 24, 2007, 06:17:12 PM »

I can't back it up like Jonathon, but I'm pretty sure it's butt.

Jonathon · « **Reply #2 on:** July 24, 2007, 06:25:49 PM »

Intervocalic alveolar tapping is definitely not just a California thing. I know that it even occurs in Canada, because in one of my classes we talked about a vowel change in some parts of Canada that keeps words like writer and rider distinct even though tapping occurs in each. I can try to dig up some more information on it if you'd like, though it might have to wait until I get home.

Personally, I think that just about any time someone says something like "The standard American accent they use on TV comes from [insert place here]," you can pretty safely dismiss their claims. As I uunderstand it, there has never been any particular regional dialect that actors aim for—what they aim for is to lose features that are particular to regional dialects. According to my ear, even actors who play Californians (and possibly really are Californians) don't sound like real Californians.

But I suppose you could say he's at least partially right. The Midwestern and Western accents are very similar—I don't even remember what the differences are. So any actor who strives for a perfect standard American English accent might sound like they're from California or the Midwest or anywhere in between.

pooka · « **Reply #3 on:** July 24, 2007, 06:36:08 PM »

All the news organizations are in New York and stuff. Not that they talk in an especial New York accent, but I think there is a definite Northeast influence in broadcasting.

One good place to look for data is in documentaries, I think. Asking folks how they say words is not the way to find out how they say them.

But the idea of pronouncing the T in Buttor makes me think of that Support the Municipality poster.

saxon75 · « **Reply #4 on:** July 25, 2007, 11:50:52 PM »

I feel vindicated. Thanks!

saxon75 · « **Reply #5 on:** July 26, 2007, 12:10:20 AM »

By the way, I was just thinking about it and I don't think that "writer" and "rider" are exactly the same for me. The "i" in "rider" (that's actually a diphthong, right? [a?]?) is lengthened and there's a very slight change that I want to say is both fronted and opened (is that the right word?) but I can't say for sure. I don't have a great ear for that kind of thing.

rivka · « **Reply #6 on:** July 26, 2007, 12:27:51 AM »

Sounds about right to me, although I'd be unable to describe exactly what the difference is.

Porter · « **Reply #7 on:** July 26, 2007, 07:56:32 AM »

I think I pronounce the "t" in "writer" as a "t", but I cannot be sure.

pooka · « **Reply #8 on:** July 26, 2007, 07:58:01 AM »

Hmm. Only you know for sure, but I have to admit, they are pretty indistinguishable to me.

Jonathon · « **Reply #9 on:** July 26, 2007, 03:15:45 PM »

Quote

By the way, I was just thinking about it and I don't think that "writer" and "rider" are exactly the same for me. The "i" in "rider" (that's actually a diphthong, right? [a?]?) is lengthened and there's a very slight change that I want to say is both fronted and opened (is that the right word?) but I can't say for sure. I don't have a great ear for that kind of thing.

I think phonologists would say "lowered," not "opened." But [a], the nucleus in the diphthong, is already low, so it can't go lower. Fronting it would make it [æ] (or maybe somewhere between [a] and [æ]), and I'm not sure I've heard that before. But it could very well be simply lengthened; in English, vowels before voiced consonants are typically lengthened, so you can distinguish between words like "beat" and "bead" by the length of the vowel and not just the final consonant. And it's entirely possible that you're hearing the lengthening as some sort of qualitative change to the vowel, since vowels are slippery and it's hard to know exactly what's going on without a spectrograph.