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Forums => English & Linguistics => Topic started by: rivka on August 30, 2005, 10:42:01 PM

Title: Proven v. Proved
Post by: rivka on August 30, 2005, 10:42:01 PM

Much to my surprise, Google's spellcheck objected to proven. It's wrong, of course. Proven is a perfectly good alternative to proved. In fact, it sounds better to me.

Interestingly, m-w has this to say:

Quote

The past participle proven, originally the past participle of preve, a Middle English variant of prove that survived in Scotland, has gradually worked its way into standard English over the past three and a half centuries. It seems to have first become established in legal use and to have come only slowly into literary use. Tennyson was one of its earliest frequent users, probably for metrical reasons. It was disapproved by 19th century grammarians, one of whom included it in a list of "words that are not words." Surveys made some 40 or 50 years ago indicated that proved was about four times as frequent as proven. But our evidence from the last 20 or 25 years shows this no longer to be the case. As a past participle proven is now about as frequent as proved in all contexts. As an attributive adjective <proved or proven gas reserves> proven is much more common than proved.

Title: Proven v. Proved
Post by: Leto II on August 31, 2005, 06:31:10 AM

I consider "proven" to be either an adjective or a future or present perfect verb. If I am using past tense, I pretty always use "proved."

I don't really consider them to be interchangeable, though I am, of course, interested in the official work from the linguistic geeks.

What's the context in which google objected to it?

Title: Proven v. Proved
Post by: rivka on August 31, 2005, 07:12:03 AM

The Google toolbar has a spellcheck, which I now use in preference to ieSpell. Its dictionary lacks (well, in my case lacked) proven.

Title: Proven v. Proved
Post by: Porter on August 31, 2005, 07:16:11 AM

Does anybody know of a good Firefox spell checker?

Title: Proven v. Proved
Post by: rivka on August 31, 2005, 07:26:54 AM

I believe there was a Firefox extension thread on Hatrack a while back that recommended one or two.

Title: Proven v. Proved
Post by: rivka on August 31, 2005, 07:40:50 AM

My mistake. It was actually here (http://www.hatrack.com/cgi-bin/ubbmain/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=032010#000002).

Title: Proven v. Proved
Post by: Jonathon on August 31, 2005, 08:07:12 AM

I think I generally agree with Icarus, but I do use proven as a past participle from time to time. It must be pretty unselfconscious, though, because I can't say for sure how often I use one or the other.