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Forums => English & Linguistics => Topic started by: RRR on March 01, 2005, 08:58:06 PM

Title: Grammar Questions
Post by: RRR on March 01, 2005, 08:58:06 PM
Gah! Firefox deciding to unexpectedly quit right when I'm almost done with my post is NOT amusing.

So... I took "The Commonly Confused Words Test" on OK Cupid, and I made a 66% on the expert section. It doesn't list the answers, and I've been spending the past 20 or so minutes trying to figure out the answers. I took it again and made 72% on that section, which means I have 2.7 questions wrong. 2.7? I'm not really sure how that works out. Anyway, to the questions.

Quote
31.  They __________ her for __________ witchcraft.
A. hanged / practicing
B. hanged / practising
C. hung / practicing
D. hung / practising
Doesn't the answer to this depend on whether you use British or American spelling? I think A is right if you use American, and B is right if you use British. I chose B.

Quote
32.  The bombing had an adverse __________ on __________ issues.
A. affect / economic
B. affect / economical
C. effect / economic
D. effect / economical
I'm almost positive A is correct.

Quote
33.  Please stay __________.
A. a while
B. awhile
C. for a while
D. all of the above
I chose D. All of them sound right.

Quote
34.  He is working __________ his Bachelor's degree, __________ she is pursuing her Master's degree.
A. toward / while
B. toward / whilst
C. towards / while
D. towards / whilst
I have no idea on this one. They all sound like they could be right. I don't think I've ever used whilst before. I guess that's a British thing. I chose D.

Quote
35.  She would not __________ as to __________ stole her money.
A. enquire / who
B. enquire / whom
C. inquire / who
D. inquire / whom
I know whom is right, but I'm not sure about enquire/inquire. I chose D.

Quote
36.  Boat travel makes me __________.
A. nauseated
B. nauseous
C. Either a or b
D. Neither a nor b
I know this one is A.

Quote
37.  The amazing still flight of the hummingbird is a natural __________.
A. phenomena
B. phenomenon
C. Either a or b
D. Neither a nor b
Isn't phenomena plural and phenomenon singular? That's what I thought, so I chose B.

Quote
38.  She enjoys smelling and tasting things__ she is a __________ being.
A. : / sensual
B. : / sensuous
C. ; / sensual
D. ; / sensuous
At first I thought this was sensual, but after looking it up I think it's senuous. I'm not really sure about the puncuation, but I'm leaning toward the semicolon so I went with D.

Quote
39.  That information is __________ to this case.
A. impertinent
B. irrelevant
C. Either a or b
D. Neither a nor b
I chose B. Not really sure about this one.

Quote
40.  The water from the river flows through the __________ into the ocean.
A. canal
B. channel
C. Either a or b
D. Neither a nor b
Both canal and channel sound right to me. I dunno.

So, what do you guys think?
Title: Grammar Questions
Post by: rivka on March 01, 2005, 10:00:10 PM
Quote
Quote
31.  They __________ her for __________ witchcraft.
A. hanged / practicing
B. hanged / practising
C. hung / practicing
D. hung / practising
Doesn't the answer to this depend on whether you use British or American spelling? I think A is right if you use American, and B is right if you use British. I chose B.
It's definitely hanged. (Pictures get hung, people get hanged.) But both A and B should be fine (although A is the more common American variant, I believe.)

Quote
Quote
32.  The bombing had an adverse __________ on __________ issues.
A. affect / economic
B. affect / economical
C. effect / economic
D. effect / economical
I'm almost positive A is correct.
Affect as a noun means emotional state. You want "effect." And "economical" is a synonym for thrifty. So my choice would be C.

Quote
Quote
33.  Please stay __________.
A. a while
B. awhile
C. for a while
D. all of the above
I chose D. All of them sound right.
I'm pretty sure "awhile" is archaic (or poetic). And C seems redundant. So I choose A.

Quote
Quote
34.  He is working __________ his Bachelor's degree, __________ she is pursuing her Master's degree.
A. toward / while
B. toward / whilst
C. towards / while
D. towards / whilst
I have no idea on this one. They all sound like they could be right. I don't think I've ever used whilst before. I guess that's a British thing. I chose D.
*grin* A few weeks ago, I would have said definitely A. But Jonathon has cured me of my "toward" preference -- well, somewhat, anyway. I still think it sounds better. "Whilst," OTOH, is definitely archaic. So A, but I think C is also correct.

Quote
Quote
35.  She would not __________ as to __________ stole her money.
A. enquire / who
B. enquire / whom
C. inquire / who
D. inquire / whom
I know whom is right, but I'm not sure about enquire/inquire. I chose D.
Actually, it's who. Drop the beginning of the sentence and it's easier to see. (That is, make it "_________ stole her money?") "Enquire" is legit, but I think "inquire" is preferred. C.


Quote
Quote
36.  Boat travel makes me __________.
A. nauseated
B. nauseous
C. Either a or b
D. Neither a nor b
I know this one is A.
A and B are synonyms. Thus, C would be my choice.

Quote
Quote
37.  The amazing still flight of the hummingbird is a natural __________.
A. phenomena
B. phenomenon
C. Either a or b
D. Neither a nor b
Isn't phenomena plural and phenomenon singular? That's what I thought, so I chose B.
That makes sense, as that is the way Latin plurals work (as far as I know). However, usage (and a search confirms that this usage dates back several hundred years) allows both to be used as singular. "Makes sense" doesn't always help when it comes to English. ;) C.

Quote
Quote
38.  She enjoys smelling and tasting things__ she is a __________ being.
A. : / sensual
B. : / sensuous
C. ; / sensual
D. ; / sensuous
At first I thought this was sensual, but after looking it up I think it's sensuous. I'm not really sure about the punctuation, but I'm leaning toward the semicolon so I went with D.
I can see the argument for either colon or semicolon. But I think the semicolon works better. So yeah, D.

Quote
Quote
39.  That information is __________ to this case.
A. impertinent
B. irrelevant
C. Either a or b
D. Neither a nor b
I chose B. Not really sure about this one.
Impertinence is chutzpah. :D I agree, B.

Quote
Quote
40.  The water from the river flows through the __________ into the ocean.
A. canal
B. channel
C. Either a or b
D. Neither a nor b
Both canal and channel sound right to me. I dunno.
Canals are for water drainage and farm irrigation, I think. Would they drain into the ocean? I vote B.
Title: Grammar Questions
Post by: RRR on March 01, 2005, 10:36:35 PM
Quote
Affect as a noun means emotional state. You want "effect." And "economical" is a synonym for thrifty. So my choice would be C.
*bangs head* I swear I know the difference between affect and effect. Gah. For some reason I thought it was a verb in that sentence.

Quote
Actually, it's who. Drop the beginning of the sentence and it's easier to see. (That is, make it "_________ stole her money?") "Enquire" is legit, but I think "inquire" is preferred. C.
*bangs head again* I should have known that. Sigh.
Title: Grammar Questions
Post by: rivka on March 01, 2005, 10:56:35 PM
I get effect and affect mixed up too, unless (and sometimes even if) I'm very careful. I double-checked to be sure. *grin*
Title: Grammar Questions
Post by: Pepe the Inamimated on March 02, 2005, 06:42:52 AM
Quote
*grin* A few weeks ago, I would have said definitely A. But Jonathon has cured me of my "toward" preference -- well, somewhat, anyway. I still think it sounds better. "Whilst," OTOH, is definitely archaic. So A, but I think C is also correct.

o_O

Jon done cured you wrong, then. You use toward, not towards. I have verified this.

-o-

"Nauseated" and "Nauseous" are not synonyms, though they are often incorrectly used as such. Somethine is "nauseous" if it induces nausea. A person suffering from nausea is nauseated.

-o-

I disagree on 38. I read sensuous as meaning pleasing to touch or something along those lines, and sensual as being oriented toward using the sense of touch.
Title: Grammar Questions
Post by: Pepe the Inamimated on March 02, 2005, 06:52:30 AM
Update on "toward" and "towards": quick googling indicates that "towards" is more accepted in British usage, while "toward" is preferred in American usage.

I have no idea which is preferred among Kiwis. :-p
Title: Grammar Questions
Post by: Jono on March 02, 2005, 08:21:03 AM
Quote
o_O

Jon done cured you wrong, then. You use toward, not towards. I have verified this.
Oh no! Icarus has fallen prey to this urban myth of grammar!
Title: Grammar Questions
Post by: Porter on March 02, 2005, 08:23:10 AM
Quote
Firefox deciding to unexpectedly quit right when I'm almost done with my post is NOT amusing.
I've been getting a lot of crashes from the latest firefox version. :(
Title: Grammar Questions
Post by: Jono on March 02, 2005, 08:23:34 AM
Quote
Quote
Quote
37.  The amazing still flight of the hummingbird is a natural __________.
A. phenomena
B. phenomenon
C. Either a or b
D. Neither a nor b
Isn't phenomena plural and phenomenon singular? That's what I thought, so I chose B.
That makes sense, as that is the way Latin plurals work (as far as I know). However, usage (and a search confirms that this usage dates back several hundred years) allows both to be used as singular. "Makes sense" doesn't always help when it comes to English. ;) C.
It's true that phenomena is often used for a singular form, but that doesn't make it right according to traditional standards. If you're aiming for good usage, you shouldn't confuse the two.
Title: Grammar Questions
Post by: Porter on March 02, 2005, 08:29:30 AM
Jon, I can't figure you out.  Half the time it seems that you're preaching "The rules are dumb!  English is what English is spoken!"  and other times you are saying "You've got to stick to the rules, people!"
Title: Grammar Questions
Post by: RRR on March 02, 2005, 08:33:32 AM
Quote
I've been getting a lot of crashes from the latest firefox version. :(
Yeah, me too. :( It's been quitting on me at least once a day. I've had to revert back to using 0.8.
Title: Grammar Questions
Post by: Jono on March 02, 2005, 08:38:05 AM
I try to base my rules on education and common sense. When you take the time to look into the issue, you discover that there's really nothing wrong with towards; it just happens to be less common in America and more common in Britain, so then people go too far and edit it out in America. Most people who edit it out or call it incorrect don't really understand the whole issue, which is why I argue against those people.

But with phenomena, educated people know that it's the plural form. For the purposes of this quiz, that's what it is. And if you want your writing to sound educated, you should probably follow that rule.

The underlying problem is that about half of the rules are decent, logical rules, and the other half are myth and superstition. Hence my schizophrenia. ;)
Title: Grammar Questions
Post by: Porter on March 02, 2005, 08:48:26 AM
So, should we all choose which rules we wish to follow, or should we all follow the rules that you think we should? (http://www.hatrack.com/ubb/forum/wink.gif)

edit:  Because I really don't like GC's winking smiley.
Title: Grammar Questions
Post by: Jono on March 02, 2005, 08:55:50 AM
I really believe that language is ultimately a personal thing, and I think fashion is a pretty good analogy. People can tell you what's in style and what's out of style, or what looks good on you and what looks bad on you, but it's really up to you to decide what to wear. And even though those fashion experts may have pretty reasonable arguments, it's not like there's any sort of objective, universal law of fashion that those arguments are based on. I can give you my educated opinion on language, but in the end, that's all it really is.


Edit: I really don't like it either. Nathan once described it as "confused and uncomfortable." One of these days I'll get around to editing it.
Title: Grammar Questions
Post by: Pepe the Inamimated on March 02, 2005, 09:03:01 AM
Actually, when I was a newspaper editor, I instinctively felt that "towards" was wrong and "toward" was correct. When one of my associate editors disagreed, I looked up the grammar sources to back me up. But my reasoning is basically that we already have a perfectly good word in "toward," and it means what people generally mean when they say "towards." Looking at it as some sort of amalgam of "to+ward," my view makes sense as well. We don't look "skywards," we look "skyward." Thomas Wolfe, of course, looks homeward.

Frankly, while I can accept that brits say "towards" and "backwards" and the like, I don't correct these simply for the sake of having different practices from Britain, but because I think they are wrong, or at best silly. I would say that "our way" is better than this British way.

-o-

My other pet peeve was "honors student," which should, of course, be "honor student." Unless you're British, in which case I suppose it's "honours stuodsents" or some silly thing with lots of extra letters.  ;)  
Title: Grammar Questions
Post by: Porter on March 02, 2005, 09:16:58 AM
Crap, Jon.  How am I supposed to mock that post?  That made a lot of sense.  <_<

OK, smiley editorializing time, broken up into chunks because the board won't let me post too many smileys in one post:

:huh:  -- this one is OK, but it seems that it's just a less evocative form of (http://www.hatrack.com/ubb/forum/confused.gif) or (http://www.hatrack.com/ubb/forum/graemlins/dontknow.gif)
 :o  Pretty much the same thing
 ;) This guy needs to remove the beam from his eye.
 
Title: Grammar Questions
Post by: Porter on March 02, 2005, 09:17:14 AM
:P I think the tongue smiley needs to look less blissful and more mocking, like (http://www.hatrack.com/ubb/forum/tongue.gif)
 :D This guy looks like he's really happy, while (http://www.hatrack.com/ubb/forum/biggrin.gif) looks like he is trying to look happy.  I think they both have their place.
 :lol: This is one of my favorite looking smileys, but it doesn't emote like (http://www.hatrack.com/ubb/forum/graemlins/rofl.gif) does.
 B) This one's cool.  My only beef is that A) when I do a list like this B) I accidentally put it in C) and it makes  me look foolish.
 :rolleyes: I like this one.
 
Title: Grammar Questions
Post by: Porter on March 02, 2005, 09:17:29 AM
<_< I really like this one.
 :) KISS.  I like it.
:wub: I thought this one was really weird when I first saw it, because whenever people used it I saw unintended romantic overtones.  But now that I'm used to it, I like it.
 :angry: This one rocks.
 :( Not nearly as evocative as (http://www.hatrack.com/ubb/forum/frown.gif) The color really adds to it.
 
Title: Grammar Questions
Post by: Porter on March 02, 2005, 09:17:53 AM
:unsure: I've got no problems with this one.
 :blink: This one is good.  It makes me laugh that we have two of them. (don't we?) :fear: I have not really figured this one out.
 :blush: This one's fine.
 :pirate: This one I have come to enjoy.
 :cry: It's OK.  He can make it on his own!  I dig it.
 >.< I like this one too.
:whistling:  Another useful one.
:mellow: It seems odd to me to have an emoticon to express essentially no emotion.  No wonder it's rarely used.
^_^ My problem with this one is that the smiley doesn't express the same emotion to me as the ASCII version.
 
Title: Grammar Questions
Post by: Porter on March 02, 2005, 09:18:06 AM
Her's a bunch that I don't really see the point to, and I'm not surpsied to see them used rarely, if at all:
:wacko: :alien:  :dizzy:  :homestar:  :kiss:  B?  :phone:  :santa:  :shuriken:  :sorcerer:  :upsidedown:  :thecheat:  :sideways:  --|--

OK, that's enough for now.  Back to work.
 
Title: Grammar Questions
Post by: Jono on March 02, 2005, 09:18:15 AM
The s on towards is the same ending that's found on a lot of other adjectives and adverbs (amongst, amidst, whilst, against, days, nights, needs, hence, since, once, twice . . . ).

And here's what the OED says:
Quote
In English the history of -wards as an advb. suffix is identical with that of -ward (see -WARD 3 and 4); beside every adv. in -ward there has always existed (at least potentially) a parallel formation in -wards, and vice versa. The two forms are so nearly synonymous (the general sense of the advs. being ‘in the direction indicated by the first element of the compound’) that the choice between them is mostly determined by some notion of euphony in the particular context; some persons, apparently, have a fixed preference for the one or the other form. Sometimes, however, the difference in the form of the suffix corresponds to a difference in the shade of meaning conveyed, though it would not be possible to give any general rule that would be universally accepted. Where the meaning to be expressed includes the notion of manner as well as direction of movement, -wards is required, as in ‘to walk backwards’, ‘to write backwards’. In other instances the distinction seems to be that -wards is used when the adv. is meant to express a definite direction in contrast with other directions: thus we say ‘it is moving forwards if it is moving at all’, but ‘to come forward’, not ‘forwards’ (see further the note on FORWARD adv.); so ‘to travel eastward’ expresses generally the notion of travelling in the direction of an eastern goal, ‘to travel eastwards’ implies that the direction is thought of as contrasted with other possible directions. Hence -wards seems to have an air of precision which has caused it to be avoided in poetical use.
To me, it seems silly to call it incorrect. It has cognates in German, Dutch, and Gothic (though Gothic is dead). That means it goes back probably two thousand years or more. It seems to me that the only real motivation for calling it incorrect is so that we can legitimize our language by claiming that it's more correct than British English.
Title: Grammar Questions
Post by: Jono on March 02, 2005, 09:21:38 AM
Whoa. Look what I missed while making my long post. Excellent critiques, Porter. I think I agree with you on pretty much everything. Maybe I should start editing emoticons tonight.
Title: Grammar Questions
Post by: Porter on March 02, 2005, 09:25:05 AM
While the HR ones generally seem to emote better, the ones over her are are better pictures.  Jut compare  :( with the extremely pixelated (http://www.hatrack.com/ubb/forum/frown.gif).

*goes to try to change the color of the GC one*
Title: Grammar Questions
Post by: Pepe the Inamimated on March 02, 2005, 09:31:12 AM
Quote
It seems to me that the only real motivation for calling it incorrect is so that we can legitimize our language by claiming that it's more correct than British English.

Actually, as I already noted, my motivation is that it sounds like butt to me. :P

-o-

And regarding smilies, I prefer the hatrack rolleyes. I don't find a smiling rolleyes sarcastic at all.
Title: Grammar Questions
Post by: Porter on March 02, 2005, 09:33:21 AM


All I did was mess with the colors, but I like this one much better: (http://home.comcast.net/~cporter42/frown2.gif)

Except for the transparency part.  I guess I broke that.
Title: Grammar Questions
Post by: Pepe the Inamimated on March 02, 2005, 09:41:08 AM
Hmm. I couldn't see that until you pointed it out.
Title: Grammar Questions
Post by: Porter on March 02, 2005, 09:43:49 AM
(http://www.hatrack.com/ubb/forum/graemlins/wallbash.gif)
Title: Grammar Questions
Post by: Jono on March 02, 2005, 09:49:35 AM
Don't worry about trying to edit them; I have a big graphics package thing for the board (complete with layers and transparency and whatnot).


Quote
Actually, as I already noted, my motivation is that it sounds like butt to me.
I can accept that answer. I just think that the objection most people have is that it's rare in America. Well, it's probably only rare because it's edited out and sometimes stigmatized (with the rationale that it's a Briticism). Then people can say, "See? It's rare in America," even though it's artificially rare. It's just a vicious cycle.
Title: Grammar Questions
Post by: Porter on March 02, 2005, 09:51:20 AM
"It keeps going around and around."
"That's what makes it vicious."
"And a circle."
Title: Grammar Questions
Post by: Porter on March 02, 2005, 09:51:41 AM
Quote
Don't worry about trying to edit them; I have a big graphics package thing for the board (complete with layers and transparency and whatnot).
Which one?  I used the gimp to do what I did, and it has layers and transparency and whatnot, if only I knew how to use them.
Title: Grammar Questions
Post by: Pepe the Inamimated on March 02, 2005, 10:20:10 AM
See, I don't think it's rare. I think it's all too common.

I wonder if it's a regional thing even within the US.
Title: Grammar Questions
Post by: Jono on March 02, 2005, 11:17:01 AM
What's that quote from, Porter?


And actually, I meant that I have a big graphics file containing all the buttons and emoticons and stuff, and it's all chopped up into slices and layers.
Title: Grammar Questions
Post by: Porter on March 02, 2005, 11:24:37 AM
Which quote?

My sig is from Firefly.

The one about a vicious circle is from Sports Night, a TV show that lasted about 1.5 seasons, but that had really funny dialog all the time.
Title: Grammar Questions
Post by: Annie Subjunctive on March 02, 2005, 03:21:29 PM
I say backwards. And towards, now that I think about it, and have never thought it odd. And I'm a hick.
Title: Grammar Questions
Post by: Jono on March 02, 2005, 03:41:41 PM
Yeah, I meant the vicious circle quote. I saw a few episodes of Sports Night, and I remember it being pretty good.
Title: Grammar Questions
Post by: Porter on March 02, 2005, 03:50:08 PM
I recommend netflixing the first disc.

Or maybe we could have yall over to watch it some time.
Title: Grammar Questions
Post by: rivka on March 02, 2005, 07:12:22 PM
Quote
"Nauseated" and "Nauseous" are not synonyms, though they are often incorrectly used as such. Somethine is "nauseous" if it induces nausea. A person suffering from nausea is nauseated.
>.< What is incredibly annoying -- other than the fact that I know this, and didn't pay enough attention to this one (it was the one I didn't bother to check -- hubris!) -- is that I correct students when they misuse it. They've corrupted me!  :pirate: