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Forums => English & Linguistics => Topic started by: Jonathon on September 22, 2013, 08:51:13 AM

Title: Interesting language stuff
Post by: Jonathon on September 22, 2013, 08:51:13 AM
A linguist recites a reconstructed Indo-European fable in Proto-Indo-European. (http://archaeology.org/exclusives/articles/1302-proto-indo-european-schleichers-fable)
Title: Re: Interesting language stuff
Post by: Jonathon on October 11, 2013, 02:50:12 PM
A side-by-side comparison of the British and American versions of Harry Potter and the Philosopher's/Sorcerer's Stone (http://home.comcast.net/~helenajole/Harry.html)

I find it interesting how many of the changes are rather inconsequential style changes (do Americans really need "large tawny owl" to be edited to "large, tawny owl"?). There's an awful lot of taking hyphens out of some words and putting them in others. And then there's a whole slew of changes to forms that aren't strictly British—they're just unedited American (towards and other -wards words, restrictive relative which, grey, and so on).
Title: Re: Interesting language stuff
Post by: rivka on October 11, 2013, 04:41:30 PM
Oddly, "bun" is unchanged. And is that really the correct Brit spelling for dialing? *shudder*

I've been told the last three books have substantially less of these sort of edits than he first several. By then Scholastic had figured out that American HP readers wanted a British flavor to the books. But I think all of them have "sweater" for "jumper".
Title: Re: Interesting language stuff
Post by: BlackBlade on October 17, 2013, 01:31:00 PM
1920's era American slang (http://thoughtcatalog.com/nico-lang/2013/09/59-quick-slang-phrases-from-the-1920s-we-should-start-using-again/).

I really liked handcuff for engagement ring.
Title: Re: Interesting language stuff
Post by: rivka on October 17, 2013, 02:02:45 PM
I disagree with their definition of bushwa. It's just nonsense; not as strong as BS. And I've heard that one many times.

I know a some of the others and think of them as old-fashioned (but still used), rather than obsolete: Don’t take any wooden nickels, jake, sinker, and maybe a couple others.
Title: Re: Interesting language stuff
Post by: Jonathon on November 04, 2013, 08:50:00 AM
From Risuena on Sakeriver: European etymology maps (http://imgur.com/a/iVK8a)
Title: Re: Interesting language stuff
Post by: Annie Subjunctive on November 19, 2013, 11:00:36 AM
Because internet (http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2013/11/english-has-a-new-preposition-because-internet/281601/).
Title: Re: Interesting language stuff
Post by: BlackBlade on November 20, 2013, 01:01:41 PM
New word! "Quotidian." I quite like it.

 adjective
1.
daily: a quotidian report.
2.
usual or customary; everyday: quotidian needs.
3.
ordinary; commonplace: paintings of no more than quotidian artistry.
4.
(of a fever, ague, etc.) characterized by paroxysms that recur daily.
Title: Re: Interesting language stuff
Post by: Jonathon on November 20, 2013, 01:31:16 PM
Dude, that's not new. It dates to, like, the mid-fourteenth century (http://etymonline.com/index.php?term=quotidian&allowed_in_frame=0). ;)

It is a cool word, though.
Title: Re: Interesting language stuff
Post by: Annie Subjunctive on November 20, 2013, 01:33:40 PM
I learned the French word quotidien(ne), which is a very common word for "daily," and then was weirded out when I saw it in English once. Like - you all know my secret language!
Title: Re: Interesting language stuff
Post by: BlackBlade on November 20, 2013, 01:50:34 PM
Dude, that's not new. It dates to, like, the mid-fourteenth century (http://etymonline.com/index.php?term=quotidian&allowed_in_frame=0). ;)

It is a cool word, though.
I restored the word, like Joseph Smith! ;)
Title: Re: Interesting language stuff
Post by: Jonathon on November 20, 2013, 02:25:52 PM
 <_<
Title: Re: Interesting language stuff
Post by: BlackBlade on November 20, 2013, 02:45:57 PM
 :unsure:
Title: Re: Interesting language stuff
Post by: Jonathon on November 26, 2013, 11:26:09 AM
Remember those dialect maps that went around a little while back? Here's a video (http://www.theatlantic.com/video/archive/2013/11/soda-vs-pop-vs-coke-mapping-how-americans-talk/281808/) demonstrating some of the different pronunciations.
Title: Re: Interesting language stuff
Post by: rivka on January 12, 2014, 07:54:44 PM
Ashkenazi names: The etymology of the most common Jewish surnames (http://www.slate.com/blogs/lexicon_valley/2014/01/08/ashkenazi_names_the_etymology_of_the_most_common_jewish_surnames.html)
Title: Re: Interesting language stuff
Post by: BlackBlade on January 12, 2014, 08:48:33 PM
Are there even any last names left after going through that list?! ;)
Title: Re: Interesting language stuff
Post by: rivka on January 13, 2014, 08:19:13 AM
I know quite a few that are not on the list, yes.
Title: Re: Interesting language stuff
Post by: pooka on January 14, 2014, 02:04:47 PM
Reading that really took me back to my synagogue bookkeeper days.  Is the dove associated with Jonah or Noah?
Title: Re: Interesting language stuff
Post by: Jonathon on January 14, 2014, 02:35:24 PM
I've heard that there are a lot of errors in that post, but I don't know the details. I just saw someone on Twitter saying that people on a genealogy forum were going nuts over the errors.
Title: Re: Interesting language stuff
Post by: rivka on January 14, 2014, 03:37:49 PM
Is the dove associated with Jonah or Noah?
Yes. ;)

Yonah means dove, but the dove is also associated with Noach because of what happened after the flood.

I've heard that there are a lot of errors in that post, but I don't know the details. I just saw someone on Twitter saying that people on a genealogy forum were going nuts over the errors.
I really don't know. However, many of those etymologies have been claimed (by the people with those names, among others) for a long time. Which doesn't make them right, of course.
Title: Re: Interesting language stuff
Post by: pooka on January 14, 2014, 06:03:56 PM
Yeah, I mean we're talking about Yiddish after all.  Is it considered a creole?
Hmm.  If it was, it was probably really long ago.  It has 6 dialects now.  I had no idea that it is the traditional language of the Talmud.  Jews never stop surprising me. 
Title: Re: Interesting language stuff
Post by: rivka on January 14, 2014, 06:31:20 PM
Yeah, I mean we're talking about Yiddish after all.  
Not for all of the names, but for some of them.

I had no idea that it is the traditional language of the Talmud.
???

The Talmud is written in Aramaic. Which is definitely NOT Yiddish. Yiddish isn't old enough.
Title: Re: Interesting language stuff
Post by: Jonathon on January 14, 2014, 07:07:00 PM
Yeah, I mean we're talking about Yiddish after all.  Is it considered a creole?

I'm pretty sure it isn't. It's basically just an offshoot of High German with borrowings from Hebrew and Slavic languages, I believe (and Aramaic?).
Title: Re: Interesting language stuff
Post by: rivka on January 14, 2014, 07:24:19 PM
Not sure about Aramaic, but probably there are a few words. Definitely Slavic languages (especially Polish and Russian) and English, though.
Title: Re: Interesting language stuff
Post by: Annie Subjunctive on January 15, 2014, 09:48:49 PM
I found the names post interesting. I have a line in my family tree - my paternal grandmother's family - who get impossible to trace once they get back to the old country. (They were in what was then Prussia but I even have records of two separate towns that my great-grandfather was supposedly born in.) Their family name is Fingleman, which is spelled Finkelman in some records. I'd really love to find out more about them but none of the genealogy resources I've tried show me any Finkelmans in any if the towns they're supposed to be from, though the Jewish records are sparse. After reading that I wondered what the origin of their name was. Could it be one of the "-man" names that refers to the husband of someone? (Those are pretty cool) Or I wonder if it's related to the occupational root "finkel." Seems a bit more likely.
Title: Re: Interesting language stuff
Post by: Jonathon on June 19, 2014, 01:14:37 PM
"Speaking American, Speaking Utahn (http://radiowest.kuer.org/programs/radiowest-podcasts)"

This was a segment on a local public radio station yesterday featuring one of my professors and my editor at Visual Thesaurus. They talk about dialects in general and Utah English in particular, including how they change and how we perceive them.
Title: Re: Interesting language stuff
Post by: rivka on July 28, 2014, 06:57:47 PM
https://chroniclevitae.com/news/624-here-s-the-first-mention-of-an-adjunct-professor-in-the-new-york-times
Title: Re: Interesting language stuff
Post by: Jonathon on September 08, 2014, 04:15:22 PM
Can you guess where people are from based on their accents? (http://qz.com/259129/quiz-can-you-guess-the-accent/)

I got 7 out of 12.
Title: Re: Interesting language stuff
Post by: rivka on September 08, 2014, 04:21:17 PM
8 of 12. And at least once or twice the right answer made me :facepalm:.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Interesting language stuff
Post by: BlackBlade on September 09, 2014, 08:26:11 AM
I have heard a lot of accents but there were enough questions where I couldn't say I had heard that accent before (Senegal, Afghanistan) that I just gave up without completing it.

Discerning between Netherlands and Germany proved tricky for me.
Title: Re: Interesting language stuff
Post by: Ela on September 09, 2014, 10:01:54 AM
I got 11 out of 12.
Title: Re: Interesting language stuff
Post by: Tante Shvester on September 09, 2014, 10:10:33 AM
I work with people from all over the world, but most of their accents weren't represented (Ghana, Kenya, Cameroon,  Cuba, Mexico, Italy, among others).  I only got 7 right.
Title: Re: Interesting language stuff
Post by: Annie Subjunctive on September 09, 2014, 10:29:08 AM
I got 8 of 12, but I also think it's a little bit the luck of the draw (since I noticed there was an option to load more accents and try again.) I got Japan, China and Spain right away, but I have a lot of experience with people with those accents.

I was rather proud of myself on the one I had to work for though: I had to differentiate between Croatia and Russia and the speaker wasn't having a problem with the English voiceless dental fricative (one of the th sounds) and I remembered from some papers I read that most Russians render that as /d/. So I picked the Croatian and I was right.
Title: Re: Interesting language stuff
Post by: Ela on September 09, 2014, 10:31:03 AM
The one I got wrong was Italy. I can't remember now what the other choices were, but I think I was expecting a stronger Italian accent.

I have experience with people with lots of different accents, in part through my work, in part through my volunteer work.
Title: Re: Interesting language stuff
Post by: Tante Shvester on September 11, 2014, 07:37:46 AM
Is "six spoons of fresh snow peas" a normal thing to say?  Is spoons a unit of measurement somewhere in the English language that I'm unaware of?
Title: Re: Interesting language stuff
Post by: Tante Shvester on September 11, 2014, 07:46:07 AM
I wonder if I can write it out in an accent?

Please cawl Stella. Ask huh to bring dhese tings with huh from the staw: Six spoowuns of fresh snow peas, five tick slabs of blue cheese, and maybe a snack for huh brothuh Bob. We also need a smawull plastic snake and a big toy frawg for the kids. She can scoop dhese tings into tree red bayugs, and we will go meet huh Wenzday at the train station.

Title: Re: Interesting language stuff
Post by: rivka on September 11, 2014, 09:02:49 AM
That paragraph gets used a lot with demonstrating accents. Presumably it has examples of the various major phonemes or something?

Edit: Aha! (http://accent.gmu.edu/howto.php)
Quote
We constructed an elicitation paragraph to be read by each subject. The paragraph is written in English, and uses common English words, but contains a variety of difficult English sounds and sound sequences. The paragraph contains practically all of the sounds of English.
Title: Re: Interesting language stuff
Post by: Brinestone on September 13, 2014, 03:06:00 PM
10/12. I always seem to miss the first question on quizzes like this, and I'm not paying full attention yet. The other one I missed was Senegal.
Title: Re: Interesting language stuff
Post by: Annie Subjunctive on March 29, 2016, 01:41:19 PM
Check this out: a video project to produce animations narrated in Mexico's indigenous languages (https://vimeo.com/channels/68voces). They're really beautiful. The videos are subtitled, but only in Spanish, but they're cool anyway even if you don't understand just to listen to the huge variety of languages and they have some very lovely animations. The Maya one is my favorite so far.
Title: Re: Interesting language stuff
Post by: Nighthawk on April 02, 2016, 02:59:42 PM
AP Style alert: Don’t capitalize "internet" and "web" anymore (http://www.poynter.org/2016/ap-style-change-alert-dont-capitalize-internet-and-web-any-more/404664/)

Quote
Associated Press editors announced a new stylebook change Saturday ahead of a session at the annual American Copy Editors Society's conference — the 2016 stylebook will lowercase the words "internet" and "web."
Title: Re: Interesting language stuff
Post by: Jonathon on April 02, 2016, 04:49:44 PM
I'm actually at the conference where they announced that (though I missed that session), so it's all over my Twitter feed right now. Everyone's reaction: "Welcome to the 21st century, AP Stylebook."
Title: Re: Interesting language stuff
Post by: Annie Subjunctive on April 04, 2016, 08:06:44 AM
Yeah, whenever I read someone writing about the Internet, I can't help but assume that the writer is Jen from The IT Crowd.
Title: Re: Interesting language stuff
Post by: Ela on April 04, 2016, 11:07:07 PM
I'm actually at the conference where they announced that (though I missed that session), so it's all over my Twitter feed right now. Everyone's reaction: "Welcome to the 21st century, AP Stylebook."

+1

Does this mean my phone will stop auto-correcting those words to the capitalized version? ;)
Title: Re: Interesting language stuff
Post by: Jonathon on April 05, 2016, 09:25:13 AM
Sadly, no. The AP Stylebook is just one popular style manual. Others might start following suit, but it might take a while before all the dictionaries reflect the changing style.
Title: Re: Interesting language stuff
Post by: Tante Shvester on April 05, 2016, 09:36:05 AM
I've already stopped hyphenating New-York and, but I'm still keeping the gue in analogue.
Title: Re: Interesting language stuff
Post by: Ela on April 05, 2016, 12:27:36 PM
Sadly, no. The AP Stylebook is just one popular style manual. Others might start following suit, but it might take a while before all the dictionaries reflect the changing style.

Yeah, I knew that.

It's one of my pet peeves that auto-correct keeps trying to change internet to Internet. :p
Title: Re: Interesting language stuff
Post by: Jonathon on August 22, 2016, 02:02:41 PM
Time travelling to the mother tongue (http://www.cam.ac.uk/research/features/time-travelling-to-the-mother-tongue)

A team of linguists and statisticians have put together a bunch of sound clips illustrating how modern forms of words evolved from Proto-Indo-European. For instance, here's one (http://www.phon.ox.ac.uk/jcoleman/one-from-oins.wav) morphing into the PIE form *oins.

More clips are found here (http://www.phon.ox.ac.uk/jcoleman/ancient-sounds-audio.html).
Title: Re: Interesting language stuff
Post by: Jonathon on September 11, 2016, 08:45:27 PM
A complaint about how kids these days are ruining Middle English:

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CsE5SY6XgAEoVi8.jpg:large)

More here (http://allthingslinguistic.com/post/150281605684/thanks-to-linguist-twitter-for-finding-this).
Title: Re: Interesting language stuff
Post by: Tante Shvester on September 12, 2016, 01:44:06 PM
I mamish know people who speak Ynglyssh.  I'm surprised he didn't stick a "u" in "honorable".
Title: Re: Interesting language stuff
Post by: Jonathon on September 27, 2016, 11:53:58 AM
A video on the Inuktitut syllabic alphabet (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xW4hI_METac) (or, if you're a real linguistics nerd, abugida).
Title: Re: Interesting language stuff
Post by: Jonathon on September 30, 2016, 10:42:17 AM
Bait wass originally a causative form of the verb bite that was borrowed from Old Norse. That is, it meant "to cause to eat". Old English had a similar word, but it apparently died out. This means that bait/bite are a causative/inchoative pair like lay/lie, sit/set, raise/rise, and hang/hang.
Title: Re: Interesting language stuff
Post by: rivka on September 30, 2016, 02:42:04 PM
This is indeed the correct thread for that.
Title: Re: Interesting language stuff
Post by: Ela on November 26, 2016, 11:03:25 PM
I thought this was pretty interesting:

Which Language Uses the Most Sounds? Click 5 Times for the Answer. (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/25/world/what-in-the-world/click-languages-taa-xoon-xoo-botswana.html)
Title: Re: Interesting language stuff
Post by: Jonathon on November 28, 2016, 08:29:38 AM
That is pretty interesting, though of course I have some nitpicks with a few things. I don't think clicks per se allow more information to be packed into short words—it's having more contrasting sounds that allows that. If you think of all the possible English words that could be made with the pattern consonant-vowel-consonant and compare it to all the Khoisan words that could be made with that same pattern, the list of Khoisan words will be a lot longer because they have more possible sounds to choose from, allowing for more combinations.

So it's not really that the sounds themselves carry information in a semantic sense (unless you're talking about sound-symbolic words specifically, which they do mention), but that having those additional sounds allows for more possible short words. At least that's my take—I know very little about Khoisan languages, so I could be missing something.
Title: Re: Interesting language stuff
Post by: Tante Shvester on November 28, 2016, 09:07:57 AM
I clucked my way through that whole article.
Title: Re: Interesting language stuff
Post by: Ela on November 28, 2016, 01:01:21 PM
Good thoughts, Jonathon. I wondered about the claim that clicks allow more information to be packed into short words, but I don't have the linguistics background to be able to analyze it the way you do.

Tante: Ha!  :D
Title: Re: Interesting language stuff
Post by: Tante Shvester on November 29, 2016, 11:31:50 AM
I was making a series all five of those clicking noises for my baby, and he was all wide-eyed silent for the whole performance, trying to make sense of it, I suppose.  When I stopped, he made the grunting sound that, for him, means, "Again!  Again!"
Title: Re: Interesting language stuff
Post by: Ela on November 30, 2016, 09:20:13 AM
 :D

Babies are great. :)
Title: Re: Interesting language stuff
Post by: Tante Shvester on November 30, 2016, 11:10:00 AM
I know!  It cracks me up when I make a literary reference and he catches the reference to a work of literature he is familiar with and he gives me the biggest grin.  Mostly, he is a fan of genre fiction and poetry.

Yesterday, we took turns playing Peek-a-boo for a solid hour.  I kept suggesting that he might want to go take a nap (mostly because I really wanted to get some sleep), but he kept begging for more.  I'd put the flannel blanket over his head and then pull it off, which is a never-ending source of delightful surprise, and then I'd put the flannel blanket over my head and he'd pull it off me, squealing in delight in the wizardry of making me re-appear like magic.
Title: Re: Interesting language stuff
Post by: Tante Shvester on April 20, 2017, 11:58:52 AM
The New York Times has a fun little copy editing quiz (https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/04/17/insider/copy-edit-this-quiz-5.html?rref=collection%2Fsectioncollection%2Finsider&action=click&contentCollection=insider&region=rank&module=package&version=highlights&contentPlacement=2&pgtype=sectionfront&_r=0) you can try.  For those of us who think copy editing is fun.
Title: Re: Interesting language stuff
Post by: Jonathon on April 20, 2017, 01:07:25 PM
It took me three tries to get the one about college graduates, and I felt pretty dumb when I finally figured it out.
Title: Re: Interesting language stuff
Post by: rivka on April 20, 2017, 07:30:11 PM
It took me three tries to get the one about college graduates, and I felt pretty dumb when I finally figured it out.
Ditto.

And I really ought to know better.
Title: Re: Interesting language stuff
Post by: Jonathon on April 25, 2017, 09:58:33 PM
The same sentence written in the English of 100, 400, 500, 600, and 1000 years ago (https://www.quora.com/Can-you-write-a-sentence-in-English-the-way-it-would-look-now-100-years-ago-and-500-years-ago/answer/David-Cameron-Staples?srid=CYyk).
Title: Re: Interesting language stuff
Post by: rivka on April 26, 2017, 12:02:15 AM
 B)
Title: Re: Interesting language stuff
Post by: Brinestone on May 01, 2017, 11:55:12 AM
Awesome.
Title: Re: Interesting language stuff
Post by: Jonathon on April 06, 2018, 12:48:23 PM
Can you correctly identify a lowercase g? (https://scholarlykitchen.sspnet.org/2018/04/06/can-identify-lower-case-g/)
Title: Re: Interesting language stuff
Post by: Brinestone on April 07, 2018, 07:58:59 AM
Yes.
Title: Re: Interesting language stuff
Post by: Ela on April 22, 2018, 02:31:59 PM
When readers correct the editing and they're wrong:

Just Deserts, or Just Cruel? (https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/20/reader-center/just-deserts-desserts-confusion.html)

I saw the original headline discussed in the print edition. Read the article, even. Then saw the above-linked article after my spouse mentioned it.
Title: Re: Interesting language stuff
Post by: Jonathon on April 25, 2018, 10:18:17 AM
I don't think I learned the correct spelling until I was an adult.
Title: Re: Interesting language stuff
Post by: rivka on April 25, 2018, 11:17:45 AM
Ditto.
Title: Re: Interesting language stuff
Post by: Ela on April 26, 2018, 12:37:02 PM
I don't remember when I learned it, but the original headline didn't look "wrong" to me ("Just Deserts, or Just Cruel?")

When I saw the headline of the follow-up about the word usage, that's when I second guessed myself...till I read the article. :)
Title: Re: Interesting language stuff
Post by: Kate Boots on April 27, 2018, 10:31:31 AM
Same here.
Title: Re: Interesting language stuff
Post by: Jonathon on May 03, 2018, 12:29:20 PM
Apparently a discussion at BuzzFeed prompted a debate over whether "IMHO" means "in my humble opinion" or "in my honest opinion" (https://www.buzzfeed.com/lyapalater/what-do-you-think-imho-means).

I'm kind of flabbergasted, not just that people are wrong about this, but that so many people are wrong about this. They did a poll, and 59 percent of respondents think it's "honest".

Kids these days!
Title: Re: Interesting language stuff
Post by: Ela on May 03, 2018, 03:10:37 PM
That's exactly what my daughter said. She also said, "Get off my lawn."

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

My take is if the "h" stands for "honest, than that means when people write IMNSHO they mean "in my not so honest opinion. Which, I just don't think so.  :D
Title: Re: Interesting language stuff
Post by: Jonathon on May 03, 2018, 03:14:11 PM
Yeah, this debate is definitely making me feel old. I wonder if there's an age split—those old enough to have learned it on forums/Usenet/AIM versus those who know it from texting and social media?
Title: Re: Interesting language stuff
Post by: Ela on May 03, 2018, 03:20:27 PM
No clue, but the Twitter debate sure is amusing.

The "h" can't mean honest. I'm rethinking my whole use of the abbreviation now, if someone is going to think I mean "honest" instead of "humble".  :unsure:  ;)

As many have pointed out, saying "in my honest opinion" isn't even a commonly used expression. What, I'm going to give you my dishonest opinion?  ???
Title: Re: Interesting language stuff
Post by: rivka on May 03, 2018, 05:07:09 PM
You're all wrong.

It is meant to mean both, and you get to guess which was intended in a specific case by context.

The ambiguity is deliberate.
Title: Re: Interesting language stuff
Post by: Ela on May 04, 2018, 08:03:17 AM
Wrong, wrong, wrong. It means humble.

If it means both, I have to stop using it.  :p
Title: Re: Interesting language stuff
Post by: Jonathon on May 04, 2018, 10:10:12 AM
(https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/imho_2x.png) (https://xkcd.com/1989/)
Title: Re: Interesting language stuff
Post by: Ela on May 04, 2018, 10:47:46 AM
Love it!  :D
Title: Re: Interesting language stuff
Post by: Jonathon on June 18, 2018, 08:48:00 AM
Women's voices are deeper now than they were 50 years ago (http://www.bbc.com/capital/story/20180612-the-reasons-why-womens-voices-are-deeper-today).
Title: Re: Interesting language stuff
Post by: rivka on June 18, 2018, 10:03:57 AM
Fascinating!
Title: Re: Interesting language stuff
Post by: Brinestone on June 18, 2018, 01:34:26 PM
Crazy! That's so cool!
Title: Re: Interesting language stuff
Post by: Ela on June 20, 2018, 10:25:44 AM
Very interesting.
Title: Re: Interesting language stuff
Post by: Ela on September 04, 2018, 10:27:50 AM
They can't really do this, can they? Aren't those words too common for a company to trademark them?

P&G Files to Trademark Some Millennial Phrases (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-08-23/p-g-files-to-trademark-some-millennial-phrases-to-up-cool-factor)
Title: Re: Interesting language stuff
Post by: rivka on September 04, 2018, 11:05:48 AM
Anyone can apply to trademark anything. (Just like anyone can sue anyone.)

Sadly, the trademark office is so overworked and underfunded they have been known to approve applications that perhaps should not have been. (See #cockygate.) However, in this case the company is only trying to trademark them in a very specific usage: "Non-medicated liquid soap; dishwashing detergents; hard surface cleaners; and air fresheners".

So not only might they be approved, we probably don't really care. Unless you were planning to market a new brand of soap or detergent. ;)

See https://www.adweek.com/brand-marketing/omg-can-pg-literally-trademark-lol-wtf/
Title: Re: Interesting language stuff
Post by: Jonathon on September 04, 2018, 11:18:37 AM
I am not a trademark lawyer, but I don't think there's anything with that. Companies trademark common words all the time, and it just means that no one else can sell that kind of product with that name, not that no one else can use that word.

Consider Tide, another P&G brand mentioned in the article. "Tide" is a common word, but P&G doesn't really own it—they just own the rights to use it for laundry detergent. I could start a company selling a completely unrelated product called Tide, and I think I would be legally in the clear (just so long as someone else didn't have a trademark in that area). So they can trademark WTF for a line of dish soap or whatever, and it just means that other companies can't ALSO sell a line of dish soap called WTF.

Edit: Cross-posted at the same time as Rivka.
Title: Re: Interesting language stuff
Post by: Ela on September 04, 2018, 02:57:41 PM
Yeah, that all makes sense.

It's just that seeing the article give me a WTF moment. If you know what I mean. ;)
Title: Re: Interesting language stuff
Post by: Jonathon on September 04, 2018, 03:01:45 PM
 ;D
Title: Re: Interesting language stuff
Post by: Jonathon on February 15, 2019, 08:37:45 AM
Which part of the UK or Ireland are you from? (https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/02/15/upshot/british-irish-dialect-quiz.html)

I got "Definitely not from around here are you? Your answers were closer to the average person outside of Ireland and Britain than anywhere inside it." My closest spots were London, Birmingham, and western and southwestern Ireland.
Title: Re: Interesting language stuff
Post by: Tante Shvester on February 15, 2019, 09:59:25 AM
I, too, am not from around there.  I had just about no overlap with Scotland in my answers, which may explain why I find Scottish so incomprehensible.
Title: Re: Interesting language stuff
Post by: Ela on February 18, 2019, 09:42:07 PM
Which part of the UK or Ireland are you from? (https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/02/15/upshot/british-irish-dialect-quiz.html)

I got "Definitely not from around here are you? Your answers were closer to the average person outside of Ireland and Britain than anywhere inside it." My closest spots were London, Birmingham, and western and southwestern Ireland.

I came across this elsewhere and got the same as you. I didn't take close notice of my closest spots, but I remember they were mostly in a small part of southeast England.
Title: Re: Interesting language stuff
Post by: Jonathon on April 09, 2019, 10:03:27 AM
This is a really cool way to visualize etymologies. The PIE root is in the middle, with derived forms in daughter languages fanning out from it.

(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/56905111_2294991194123097_2181485224750219264_o.jpg?_nc_cat=108&_nc_ht=scontent-lax3-1.xx&oh=4f75e879f09307f640f252274cb25732&oe=5D436496)

(Though apparently the etymology of drake is disputed. The OED says that the notion that it comes from the root meaning 'king' is "absurd".)

link (https://www.facebook.com/starkeycomics/photos/a.2053361158286103/2294991190789764/?type=3&theater)
Title: Re: Interesting language stuff
Post by: rivka on April 09, 2019, 10:20:27 AM
 B)
Title: Re: Interesting language stuff
Post by: Noemon on June 19, 2019, 02:15:50 PM
That is just *incredibly* cool.
Title: Re: Interesting language stuff
Post by: Jonathon on August 31, 2019, 05:53:55 PM
I was quoted in a New York Times piece on Trump's sloppy language (https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/31/us/politics/trump-twitter.html).

I tried to make the point that I don't think his writing will have any lasting effect on the language, but that I think his writing shows that there's no grown-up behind the wheel. And, of course, I find the things he says a lot more repellent than how he says them.
Title: Re: Interesting language stuff
Post by: Ela on August 31, 2019, 07:37:16 PM
Quoted in the NY Times, eh. Now you've hit the big time. ;)
Title: Re: Interesting language stuff
Post by: rivka on September 01, 2019, 05:29:11 PM
Indeed. You're in some impressive company.
Title: Re: Interesting language stuff
Post by: Jonathon on September 01, 2019, 05:51:08 PM
Thanks!
Title: Re: Interesting language stuff
Post by: Tante Shvester on September 01, 2019, 09:28:41 PM
I saw the article on the front page of the Sunday Times.

(below the fold, alas. You were superceded by strife in Hong Kong.)
Title: Re: Interesting language stuff
Post by: Ela on September 01, 2019, 09:36:03 PM
I saw it in my Sunday Times, too.  B)
Title: Re: Interesting language stuff
Post by: Jonathon on September 02, 2019, 08:23:52 AM
I am honestly surprised it even made the front page.
Title: Re: Interesting language stuff
Post by: Ela on September 02, 2019, 09:45:46 AM
It doesn't seem like the sort of thing that would make the front page, does it. The main reason it did, I think, is cause it's about Trump.
Title: Re: Interesting language stuff
Post by: Jonathon on September 16, 2019, 11:49:05 AM
This (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6ohUUzh9kk) is a really great video on actors imitating the idiolects of real people in movies and TV.
Title: Re: Interesting language stuff
Post by: rivka on September 16, 2019, 01:02:52 PM
Fascinating.
Title: Re: Interesting language stuff
Post by: Ela on September 16, 2019, 06:38:18 PM
That really is fascinating.
Title: Re: Interesting language stuff
Post by: rivka on September 18, 2019, 06:54:47 PM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/voraciously/wp/2019/09/18/merriam-webster-toasts-an-expanding-food-and-drink-vocabulary-with-a-tallboy-and-matcha/
Title: Re: Interesting language stuff
Post by: rivka on December 16, 2019, 06:44:14 PM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/12/16/confused-about-they-merriam-websters-word-year-dont-be/
Title: Re: Interesting language stuff
Post by: Jonathon on December 16, 2019, 09:19:12 PM
Hey, I know that guy!
Title: Re: Interesting language stuff
Post by: rivka on April 27, 2020, 11:47:29 AM
https://www.theverge.com/2020/4/24/21234170/microsoft-word-two-spaces-period-error-correction-great-space-debate
Title: Re: Interesting language stuff
Post by: Jonathon on April 27, 2020, 12:55:22 PM
I'm sure this won't actually end the debate, but maybe it'll help convince some people to abandon the extra space.

I'm kind of annoyed that that story repeats the myth that the extra space is just a product of monospaced fonts on typewriters, though.
Title: Re: Interesting language stuff
Post by: rivka on April 27, 2020, 11:11:39 PM
I'm sure this won't actually end the debate
Yeah, I'm sure.

but maybe it'll help convince some people to abandon the extra space.
Well, I'm working on my co-worker (who sent it to me!), but she is still resisting.

I'm kind of annoyed that that story repeats the myth that the extra space is just a product of monospaced fonts on typewriters, though.
Because that's simpler for people to remember than it started with (some) printing, and then it was adapted for typewriters, and then . . . .

I tend to forget the mono-spaced thing isn't true, and I know we've discussed it before. But in my defense, I learned it in school, and it stuck. ;)
Title: Re: Interesting language stuff
Post by: Tante Shvester on April 28, 2020, 09:34:25 AM
I use two spaces after a period, always have, and see no reason why I ought to stop doing so just because some young whippersnappers think they know better. 

Tradition!
Title: Re: Interesting language stuff
Post by: rivka on May 04, 2020, 10:41:18 PM
https://twitter.com/Fritinancy/status/1256315755819175936

(Also going the rounds on WhatsApp, but no source listed.)

Quote
New Yiddish-English #coronacoinage:

Oysgezoomt
Definition: Fatigued by (or over-exposed to) Zoom.
Title: Re: Interesting language stuff
Post by: Jonathon on May 05, 2020, 11:46:19 AM
Heh. It's always funny to see someone you know from one part of the internet pop up in another part. I've been following Nancy Friedman on Twitter and on her blog for years.

Also, that's a great word.
Title: Re: Interesting language stuff
Post by: rivka on May 05, 2020, 06:45:38 PM
Heh. It's always funny to see someone you know from one part of the internet pop up in another part.
It is!

Also, that's a great word.
And the Internet says, amen. ;)
Title: Re: Interesting language stuff
Post by: rivka on June 17, 2020, 02:02:48 PM
https://www.cjr.org/analysis/capital-b-black-styleguide.php
Title: Re: Interesting language stuff
Post by: rivka on July 17, 2020, 11:48:23 AM
Could be fun: https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/624380/stet-dreyers-english-by-benjamin-dreyer/
Title: Re: Interesting language stuff
Post by: rivka on October 07, 2020, 04:42:49 PM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/the_americas/coronavirus-brazil-indigenous-endangered-language/2020/10/06/59fa1aa8-f42b-11ea-999c-67ff7bf6a9d2_story.html

Quote
Even before the pandemic, the world was at risk of losing more than a third of its remaining 6,800 languages. Hundreds have been lost in the last century, as development encroached on isolated villages, people migrated to urban centers, and new technologies and globalization saturated the world in a handful of dominant languages. Nearly 600 languages are critically endangered, according to UNESCO. Nearly 150 are spoken by no more than 10 people.

“By the end of this century, we will have a significant number of languages disappearing,” said Irmgarda Kasinskaite, who works on linguistic diversity with the U.N. cultural agency. “We don’t realize something’s gone until we lose it.”
Title: Re: Interesting language stuff
Post by: Jonathon on May 25, 2021, 01:20:58 PM
I think I mentioned this elsewhere, but I'm speaking at the conference of the Dictionary Society of North America next week. You can check out the schedule here (https://dictionarysociety.com/conference/).
Title: Re: Interesting language stuff
Post by: rivka on May 25, 2021, 01:40:10 PM
Very cool.

(I'm tempted to join, but the price is a bit higher than I would pay for a whim. Plus I am scheduled to be at the dentist that day.)
Title: Re: Interesting language stuff
Post by: Ela on May 25, 2021, 06:55:44 PM
Nice, Jonathon. Sounds interesting.
Title: Re: Interesting language stuff
Post by: rivka on October 11, 2021, 07:19:24 PM
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/10/problem-with-word-problematic/620289/

Quote
This is why I find the word problematic to be, well, problematic.
Title: Re: Interesting language stuff
Post by: rivka on October 05, 2023, 10:59:51 AM
The Georgia drawl is fading, y’all (gift link) (https://wapo.st/3PHdsaP)
Title: Re: Interesting language stuff
Post by: rivka on October 25, 2023, 01:08:18 PM
The surprisingly subtle ways Microsoft Word has changed the way we use language (https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20231025-the-surprisingly-subtle-ways-microsoft-word-has-changed-the-way-we-use-language)

Quote
Similarly, the efficiency brought about by standardisation can shape how we write, not just what we write. When clarity is put ahead of stylistic or poetic flair – Word's grammar checker has a specific "clarity" refinement option – it can have implications for how we value forms of creativity.

Based on a quick, albeit arbitrary, experiment, if Harper Lee had used Word to write To Kill a Mockingbird, the software's clarity refinement would have suggested changing: "I never loved to read. One does not love breathing," to "I never loved to read. Breathing is necessary." Does this remove the poetry and depth of the original? The example is somewhat facetious, but it illustrates the effects using such tools can have.
Title: Re: Interesting language stuff
Post by: Jonathon on November 01, 2023, 11:39:30 AM
That is interesting, though I was hoping they'd go into more detail about specific changes. I wonder if anyone's studied it in depth.
Title: Re: Interesting language stuff
Post by: rivka on November 01, 2023, 12:51:58 PM
Could be a good PhD thesis for someone.
Title: Re: Interesting language stuff
Post by: Jonathon on November 01, 2023, 01:22:27 PM
Definitely.
Title: Re: Interesting language stuff
Post by: rivka on November 01, 2023, 03:51:41 PM
I did a ProQuest search and was unable to find anything. I found a few that were about using Word (sometimes with another option as a comparison) as a method to teach various groups of students writing skills and the like.

So either it hasn't been done, or my ProQuest search skills are lacking. Probably both.
Title: Re: Interesting language stuff
Post by: Jonathon on November 02, 2023, 08:54:28 AM
I actually wrote a chapter last year on editors and dictionaries for an edited volume that's coming out next year, and I briefly discussed spellcheckers. I didn't do a super-deep dive into the literature, but I found surprisingly little on that specific topic, so my guess is that nobody's really done any research in that area.
Title: Re: Interesting language stuff
Post by: rivka on April 03, 2025, 09:09:03 AM
Fascinating. (https://www.upworthy.com/english-language-rare-er-sound)