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Forums => English & Linguistics => Topic started by: Jonathon on February 02, 2005, 08:45:50 AM

Title: Pronunciation question
Post by: Jonathon on February 02, 2005, 08:45:50 AM
How do you pronounce the word "toward"? I have only recently learned that most people pronounce it as one syllable, not two. The Oxford English Dictionary says that the bisyllabic pronunciation is not recognized in any modern dictionary, British or American (they're wrong, though—Merriam-Webster and American Heritage still list it as a less-common variant).

So now I'm all weirded out. Am I one of the few people saying "tuh-WORD" (rhyming with "ward" or "cord")? How does everyone else say it?
Title: Pronunciation question
Post by: Trisha on February 02, 2005, 09:37:16 AM
As long as you aren't saying "2 werd"

I say t'word.  How that would be counted depends on who was doing the counting.  I don't think I usually have an audible vowel after the t, but there is a puf of aspiration.  I'm not saying tword.  

Is "towards" a real word or just a common habit?
Title: Pronunciation question
Post by: Porter on February 02, 2005, 09:40:21 AM
I say t'ward, as in a church ward.
Title: Pronunciation question
Post by: Jonathon on February 02, 2005, 09:53:50 AM
"Towards" is a real word, and it's just as old as "toward." Don't believe the people who tell you that it's not, or that it's the British form while "toward" is the American form. These people are lying or, at the least, ill-informed. (I also have a suspicion that if "toward" really is more common in print in America, it's only because editors are editing out what they mistakenly think is a "British" form.)

 
Title: Pronunciation question
Post by: Capt. Tagon on February 02, 2005, 08:01:41 PM
I say it with two syllables if someone is being froward with regards to my instructions.  And I usually give it at least a syllable and a half unless I'm making fun of something.
Title: Pronunciation question
Post by: rivka on February 02, 2005, 09:06:31 PM
I say it just as Trisha indicated she does.

And I completely bought the "towards is the British version" story! Henceforth, I will use it with great deliberateness. :D
Title: Pronunciation question
Post by: Jonathon on February 03, 2005, 08:58:36 AM
*tents finger Mr.-Burns-style*

Excellent.
Title: Pronunciation question
Post by: Annie Subjunctive on February 03, 2005, 01:22:59 PM
Heck, I don't just pronounce it twords, I spell it that way! :P
Title: Pronunciation question
Post by: Jonathon on February 03, 2005, 01:53:29 PM
So there's no one here who would pronounce it like "TOE-urd" or "TORD"? 'Cause that's what Merriam-Webster and American Heritage seem to think are most common.
Title: Pronunciation question
Post by: Porter on February 03, 2005, 01:57:42 PM
Well, then we must all be wrong.
Title: Pronunciation question
Post by: Jonathon on February 03, 2005, 02:01:47 PM
That's not what I meant. Dictionaries usually list the most common pronunciations first. But if it's more common, then why is no one saying it that way? Is it a regional thing? An age thing? Something else?
Title: Pronunciation question
Post by: Porter on February 03, 2005, 02:19:36 PM
I was just joking.  What I really meant is that I think they are wrong.
Title: Pronunciation question
Post by: Annie Subjunctive on February 03, 2005, 02:32:16 PM
I suppose what I say sounds like TORD, because I talk fast and slur my words. Hmm... now I've got to say it out loud a lot and listen.
Title: Pronunciation question
Post by: Brinestone on February 03, 2005, 03:02:49 PM
I've got one. For the word legitimate, how do you pronounce the last syllable? M-W says it's a schwa, but I just can't pronounce it that way. I think I say mit. How about you?
Title: Pronunciation question
Post by: Jonathon on February 03, 2005, 04:50:41 PM
Me too. And I think I'd use a schwa in the first syllable in place of a short i. That's not so weird, though, because reduced vowels are slippery and often interchangeable.
Title: Pronunciation question
Post by: sarcasticmuppet on February 03, 2005, 06:31:57 PM
I think I pronounce it with a weaker W -- possibly even nonexistent.  You'll have to catch me saying it when I'm not thinking about it to know for sure.
Title: Pronunciation question
Post by: Annie Subjunctive on February 03, 2005, 07:18:54 PM
Quote
For the word legitimate, how do you pronounce the last syllable? M-W says it's a schwa, but I just can't pronounce it that way. I think I say mit. How about you?
I say mit too... if anything, it would be closer to met than schwa. But I kind of hate the schwa - especially when it's in perilous in the National Anthem - so I make an effort not to use it.
Title: Pronunciation question
Post by: Jonathon on February 03, 2005, 07:44:33 PM
Heh. For a schwa-hater, you speak the wrong languages.
Title: Pronunciation question
Post by: Trisha on February 03, 2005, 08:10:54 PM
Okay, so what is the difference between toward and towards?  Is one an adverb and the other a preposition?
Title: Pronunciation question
Post by: Capt. Tagon on February 03, 2005, 08:29:01 PM
It's true that "toward" can be used in a number of situations where "towards" would sound silly and probably be wrong.  Like as the opposite of "untoward".  But other than that I don't know that there really is any difference.
Title: Pronunciation question
Post by: Annie Subjunctive on February 03, 2005, 10:07:08 PM
The difference is that one is British and the other American.
Title: Pronunciation question
Post by: Jonathon on February 04, 2005, 08:09:10 AM
*pies Annie*
Quote
It's true that "toward" can be used in a number of situations where "towards" would sound silly and probably be wrong.
No, it's not true.
Quote
Like as the opposite of "untoward". But other than that I don't know that there really is any difference.
You're right there, though. The words untoward and untowards were coined in the fourteenth century, but the latter didn't survive to the fifteenth.

According to Webster's Dictionary of English Usage:
Quote
Many commentators have observed that toward is the more common choice in American English, while the preference in British English is for towards. Our evidence confirms that such is indeed the case. Both words are commonly used in the U.S., but toward is undoubtedly prevalent. . . .

At one time some critics (as Ayres 1881) preferred toward because they believed the -s of towards had died away. Letters from our correspondents sometimes seem to be seeking some semantic basis for a differentiation between these forms, but there is none.
Title: Pronunciation question
Post by: Trisha on February 04, 2005, 10:08:04 AM
So you're saying there is no difference?
Title: Pronunciation question
Post by: Jonathon on February 04, 2005, 11:18:56 AM
Correct.
Title: Pronunciation question
Post by: Crazy Harry on February 04, 2005, 09:08:09 PM
I think that the reason that using "towards/untowards" died out is because it sounds silly.  If you don't think it sounds silly, then try saying it out loud in public.
Title: Pronunciation question
Post by: Capt. Tagon on February 04, 2005, 09:09:24 PM
Er...crap.
Title: Pronunciation question
Post by: Jonathon on February 04, 2005, 10:02:09 PM
But towards hasn't died out, and untowards probably sounds silly only because no one ever says it. If it were still used nowadays, it'd probably sound fine.
Title: Pronunciation question
Post by: sarcasticmuppet on February 05, 2005, 02:20:00 PM
If everyone said "Hinkle Finkle Dinkle Doo", that would probably sound fine, too. :rolleyes:  :P  
Title: Pronunciation question
Post by: Annie Subjunctive on February 05, 2005, 02:48:27 PM
Well, I say that.
Title: Pronunciation question
Post by: Capt. Tagon on February 06, 2005, 07:40:26 PM
SM, all having two avatars and using multiple smilies in posts.

Why can't I have an outsized avatar (or two)?
Title: Pronunciation question
Post by: Trisha on February 07, 2005, 11:37:58 AM
I thought untowards meant something different from (not) towards.  Doesn't it mean shady?
Title: Pronunciation question
Post by: Jonathon on February 07, 2005, 11:48:16 AM
link (http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=untoward)

Note that toward as an adjective does not mean the same thing as toward the preposition.
Title: Pronunciation question
Post by: Doorknob on March 02, 2005, 10:26:51 AM
I say TORD.

If I'm going to draw it out I'd say it more like toe-ord than anything else

AJ
Title: Pronunciation question
Post by: mackillian on March 02, 2005, 10:41:53 AM
I also say TORD. People pronounce it differently? No way!
Title: Pronunciation question
Post by: Jono on March 02, 2005, 11:18:37 AM
That was my reaction too, Mack.


Remind me where you're from, AJ. Somewhere in the Midwest?
Title: Pronunciation question
Post by: Pepe the Inamimated on March 02, 2005, 11:25:12 AM
I pronounce it as two syllables.
Title: Pronunciation question
Post by: Jono on March 02, 2005, 12:16:52 PM
But which two syllables? That's the question.
Title: Pronunciation question
Post by: Pepe the Inamimated on March 02, 2005, 12:29:20 PM
I pronounce it exactly like you do.
Title: Pronunciation question
Post by: Doorknob on March 02, 2005, 12:56:25 PM
Grin,  Grew up in CA, lived 5 years in OK, now reside in the Chicago Area.  My parents were basically midwesterners.  I've had people completely unable to identify my 'accent'.  I also  adapt to accents  really easily.  I've mostly lost the bits of Okie that rubbed off and am basically back to normal though.

AJ