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Forums => English & Linguistics => Topic started by: sweet clementine on September 24, 2009, 12:13:12 AM

Title: a suffix question
Post by: sweet clementine on September 24, 2009, 12:13:12 AM
so, I was making up a word for my Humanities of Asia paper and I asked my roommate if she liked "philisophicality" better than "philisophicalness" and she said she hates words that end in "ness" and thinks they should all be replaced with "ality".  I was just wondering what the difference is between them, or if there is a difference, and how did they each develop?
Title: a suffix question
Post by: Tante Shvester on September 24, 2009, 02:16:07 AM
When she gets weary, try a little tenderality.
Title: a suffix question
Post by: Annie Subjunctive on September 24, 2009, 06:00:02 AM
It seems to me that there would be a nuanced difference. As in, philosophicality would be someone's inclination to be philosophical, whereas philosophicalness would be an attribute with which they acted. "His cooking was dripping with philosophicalness."
Title: a suffix question
Post by: The Genuine on September 24, 2009, 08:07:25 AM
I wouldn't use either word in a paper.
Title: a suffix question
Post by: Jonathon on September 24, 2009, 09:59:21 AM
The suffix -ality is actually two suffixes, -al + -ity, which derive from Latin. -al attaches to Latinate words to form adjectives or occasionally nouns, and -ity can then attach to form nouns.

-ness comes instead from Old English and is a little less restricted in its application. Your roommate's preference is rather irrational, because -ity or -ality simply don't work on a lot of words. I mean, happyity? Really?

I think the biggest difference is one of register—the Latin suffixes can sometimes sound a little bit more formal or elevated than the English equivalents.
Title: a suffix question
Post by: Porter on September 24, 2009, 11:10:47 AM
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I was making up a word for my Humanities of Asia paper
There's your problem.
Title: a suffix question
Post by: saxon75 on September 24, 2009, 11:13:23 AM
I propose that we all henceforth use "happyality."  Or, if you prefer, "happiality."
Title: a suffix question
Post by: Tante Shvester on September 24, 2009, 11:43:26 AM
I favor The Untouchables, with Ellioticality.
Title: a suffix question
Post by: sweet clementine on September 24, 2009, 02:33:02 PM
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I was making up a word for my Humanities of Asia paper
There's your problem.
It certainly was not my problem.  It fit perfectly and conveyed my meaning.  Where would we be if Shakespeare or Chaucer's English teachers had told them to stop making up new words?
Title: a suffix question
Post by: goofy on September 24, 2009, 06:45:27 PM
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It certainly was not my problem.  It fit perfectly and conveyed my meaning.  Where would we be if Shakespeare or Chaucer's English teachers had told them to stop making up new words?
Shakespeare and Chaucer didn't have English teachers. So it is your problem. :)

I find it interesting that we have both reality and realness.
Title: a suffix question
Post by: pooka on September 24, 2009, 06:55:13 PM
I don't know that I've heard realness before.

I used to whinge about wellness.
Title: a suffix question
Post by: Jonathon on September 24, 2009, 07:33:57 PM
Don't forget normality, normalness, and normalcy.
Title: a suffix question
Post by: Porter on September 24, 2009, 08:23:13 PM
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Quote
Quote
I was making up a word for my Humanities of Asia paper
There's your problem.
It certainly was not my problem.  It fit perfectly and conveyed my meaning.  Where would we be if Shakespeare or Chaucer's English teachers had told them to stop making up new words?
I've got no problems with making up new words, or using existing words in new ways.  Verbing can awesome language, as it were.  But it's still not a good idea to use made up words in formal writing, such as academic papers.  
Title: a suffix question
Post by: sweet clementine on September 24, 2009, 11:48:03 PM
I know.  I'll let you know if I get marked down for it.  This was the context:
"It is, however, at the moments when his writing is becoming the most philosophical that Winnie the Pooh has a tendency to interrupt and bring things quickly back to simplicity and accessibility.  And despite this avoidance of overt philisophicality, Hoff still successfully communicates his thoughts—indeed, because of it."
And I don't want to hear anything about beginning a sentence with "and".  When used sparingly it is rhetorically effective.
Title: a suffix question
Post by: Annie Subjunctive on September 25, 2009, 12:05:42 AM
I think it's fine. It's not like a paper you're submitting to be published in a journal.

One time I wrote an art history entirely spelled and punctuated the British way just to see what my professor would do. He marked every single one wrong.
Title: a suffix question
Post by: pooka on September 25, 2009, 06:07:19 AM
I'd say philosophicalness implies a property of a being who is philosophical, whereas philosophicality implies the quality of that being being philosophical.  So I would say that is the way to go in this instance.
Title: a suffix question
Post by: Brinestone on September 25, 2009, 08:13:37 AM
I think it sounds excellent.
Title: a suffix question
Post by: sweet clementine on September 25, 2009, 08:46:42 AM
oh, bless your hearts....
Title: a suffix question
Post by: Porter on September 25, 2009, 09:34:35 AM
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And I don't want to hear anything about beginning a sentence with "and".
But you can't start a sentence with a conjunction! ;)

(Seriously -- I've got no problems with starting sentences with conjunction or ending them with prepositions.)
Title: a suffix question
Post by: dkw on September 30, 2009, 06:19:26 PM
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I've got no problems with making up new words, or using existing words in new ways.  Verbing can awesome language, as it were.  But it's still not a good idea to use made up words in formal writing, such as academic papers.
Part of the pain-in-the-assedness of reading academic German is that this rule is reversed.  It is apparently considered the height of academic coolness to adjectivify words (or even entire phrases), make up new compound words, and otherwise play language games in German formal writing.  
Title: a suffix question
Post by: Porter on September 30, 2009, 08:47:14 PM
That would be a pain in the buttedness.
Title: a suffix question
Post by: Tante Shvester on September 30, 2009, 09:05:36 PM
Gesäßschmerzkeit.
Title: a suffix question
Post by: Jonathon on September 30, 2009, 09:39:20 PM
:lol:


[size=8]Even though äß is not a real German word as far as I can tell.[/size]
Title: a suffix question
Post by: Tante Shvester on September 30, 2009, 10:18:58 PM
"Gesäß" is "buttocks".  That part I had to look up.  The rest I made up, German-style.
Title: a suffix question
Post by: Jonathon on September 30, 2009, 10:43:14 PM
Well, then, I take it back. The closest I could find was Arsch, which is German for "arse".
Title: a suffix question
Post by: Brinestone on October 01, 2009, 05:57:21 AM
I think it might just be Gesäßschmerzen, since a headache is Kopfschmerzen.
Title: a suffix question
Post by: sweet clementine on October 01, 2009, 08:56:46 AM
I just asked my german friend for the correct answer.  I'll let you all know what he says (probably "Emily, you need to get a life")
Title: a suffix question
Post by: Annie Subjunctive on October 01, 2009, 10:17:30 AM
I vote for, "Emily, you're a Gesäßschmerzen."
Title: a suffix question
Post by: Tante Shvester on October 01, 2009, 11:52:43 AM
A Gesäßschmerzen is someone who is full of Gesäßschmerzkeit.
Title: a suffix question
Post by: Brinestone on October 01, 2009, 05:42:20 PM
I gotta say, if you're going to add keit, then you need to add ig to Gesäßschmerz: Gesäßschmerzigkeit. Voila!
Title: a suffix question
Post by: Tante Shvester on October 01, 2009, 08:41:48 PM
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I gotta say, if you're going to add keit, then you need to add ig to Gesäßschmerz: Gesäßschmerzigkeit. Voila!
I love it!
Title: a suffix question
Post by: sweet clementine on October 02, 2009, 10:43:24 AM
As quoted from my german friend:
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closest would probably be "Nervensaege" (ae is the a Umlaut). Literally it means "sawing on nerves"

Well, now we all know a new word.  I asked him for a more literal translation though...
Title: a suffix question
Post by: pooka on October 05, 2009, 10:44:44 AM
It took a lot of self control to not come and post on this thread during Bishop Burton's talk.  I was cracking up.  

But I guess it's a sign that the church is true that General Authorities don't indulge in literary devices more often than they do.  It's been a few years since Elder Nelson's alliterative tour de force on Peace.
Title: a suffix question
Post by: Annie Subjunctive on October 05, 2009, 01:08:03 PM
Elder Bednar cracked his first ever joke during a conference talk.

The whole time I was thinking "sarcasm is NOT going to translate into Japanese" and wondering what they would do.
Title: a suffix question
Post by: pooka on October 05, 2009, 01:43:42 PM
Do you mean the part about cringing or was it something else?  I actually felt kind of bad about that.  
Title: a suffix question
Post by: Annie Subjunctive on October 05, 2009, 02:36:02 PM
The part where he said "I know this has NEVER happened in your family, but..."
Title: a suffix question
Post by: Porter on October 05, 2009, 02:38:57 PM
He's breathing my air!