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Forums => English & Linguistics => Topic started by: Jonathon on December 07, 2008, 06:14:51 PM

Title: A holiday poll
Post by: Jonathon on December 07, 2008, 06:14:51 PM
Be prepared to defend your answer. :pirate:  
Title: A holiday poll
Post by: rivka on December 07, 2008, 07:04:16 PM
Because that's what the street two blocks from my parents is called. :P And the other way is just silly. ;)
Title: A holiday poll
Post by: pooka on December 07, 2008, 08:31:36 PM
I'm never sure which one to actually say.  But when my confidence is bolstered by wielding an unloaded shotgun, it was definitely tough talk toward Mr. Poinsetta.  I was thinking the other day that a cool name for a villain would be Vito Poinsetta.  
Title: A holiday poll
Post by: Tante Shvester on December 07, 2008, 09:01:11 PM
"poin-sett-a"

I love them about as much as I love chrysanthemums, which is not very much.  They're cliche plants.
Title: A holiday poll
Post by: Brinestone on December 07, 2008, 09:13:55 PM
Yeah, they can look nice when there are a whole bunch of them in a public building or something, but I don't care for them individually much.

They're not as bad as mums, though, which are the world's ugliest flower. Okay, probably not, but definitely the floral industry's ugliest.
Title: A holiday poll
Post by: Tante Shvester on December 07, 2008, 10:20:21 PM
A holiday pole is what Frank Costanza had for Festivus.


Just sayin'.
Title: A holiday poll
Post by: The Genuine on December 08, 2008, 09:39:26 AM
I call them Christmas Stars because I'm not sure what the "right" answer is.  But I chose the second option because that's how my family says it.
Title: A holiday poll
Post by: Ela on December 08, 2008, 01:00:01 PM
Poin-sett-i-a.

That's the correct botanical pronunciation. It's also the way my family always pronounced it.

They grow nicely here in Florida. My mom once stuck the potted poinsettias from her office in the long garden box we had out back and they took over the whole box quicker than any weed.

We were also taught, as kids, that the plant was toxic.
Title: A holiday poll
Post by: Narnia on December 08, 2008, 02:50:23 PM
My spelling of it has been misinformed...so I guess I should change my pronunciation.  I probably won't though.
Title: A holiday poll
Post by: pooka on December 08, 2008, 04:56:06 PM
It's not a word I see the proper spelling of from a trustworthy source very often.  Like, they only come out in the holiday season, and then the word is usally scrawled in sharpie on a neon colored sales poster.  Maybe if there were a famous book with a memorable title, like The Christmas Poinsettia, I'd remember it better.  I've never yet failed to spell "Box", "Jar" or "Sweater" correctly, and I thank Christmas books.  

 
Title: A holiday poll
Post by: Annie Subjunctive on December 08, 2008, 10:07:59 PM
Yeah, Jar was pretty tricky.

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They're not as bad as mums, though, which are the world's ugliest flower. Okay, probably not, but definitely the floral industry's ugliest.
I nominate the carnation. We should get used to them, though, because after the nuclear holocaust, all we're gonna have left are roaches, carnations and Cher.
Title: A holiday poll
Post by: Tante Shvester on December 08, 2008, 10:15:53 PM
I like carnations.  I think they are undervalued.  They smell nice, unlike mums, which kind of smell like urine.

I plan to appreciate them in the anteapocalypic days, since I have no plans to be around postapocalyptically to smell the flowers, eat the roaches or marvel at how well-preserved Cher is.
Title: A holiday poll
Post by: rivka on December 08, 2008, 10:41:50 PM
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I like carnations.  I think they are undervalued.
Me too.
Title: A holiday poll
Post by: pooka on December 09, 2008, 06:53:04 AM
I like carnations because they were the only flowers I got when I was young, and then when  I was in Greece I rode my bicycle past a carnation farm a few times.
Title: A holiday poll
Post by: The Genuine on December 09, 2008, 09:12:48 AM
Since I became of the age to buy girls flowers, I've had the understanding that carnations were a cheap and unflattering choice.  Nevertheless, I've always liked them because of my strong positive memories of the Carnation restaurant at Disneyland.

 :wub:
Title: A holiday poll
Post by: Tante Shvester on December 09, 2008, 09:21:42 AM
And that instant breakfast thing. :sick:  
Title: A holiday poll
Post by: Ela on December 16, 2008, 03:11:56 PM
So, Jonathon, are you planning to tell us the correct answer? In your considered opinion, of course.
Title: A holiday poll
Post by: Porter on December 16, 2008, 03:19:39 PM
I'm guessing that he'll say the one with the superfluous syllables.

Assuming I'm right, how many syllables are in "comfortable" and "vegetable" when you say them, Jonathan?
Title: A holiday poll
Post by: pooka on December 16, 2008, 03:35:50 PM
One of our children used to say "vengtable".  I still say that sometimes, and my husband tries to correct me when he catches it.  They also said "pitsfa".  This child did not have the sound pattern of English wired into their language acquisition device.  They parsed "woof woof woof" as "fwoo fwoo fwoo" and "Rub rub rub" (from washing hands) as "bru bru bru."  
Title: A holiday poll
Post by: Jonathon on December 16, 2008, 04:54:31 PM
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So, Jonathon, are you planning to tell us the correct answer? In your considered opinion, of course.
The traditionally correct form is the one with four syllables, not three. I say comfortable and vegetable with three syllables each, but those aren't really analogous to poinsettia. In those two, schwas are deleted, reducing the number of syllables. It's very uncommon to delete the vowel /i/ in English, as is done in poinsettia. I'm not positive, but I think the three-syllable version of poinsettia is a holdover from an old rural American accent where /i/ and /i?/ in final position were reduced to /?/.

And here's the honest truth: it's a pet peeve of mine, but a rather mild one. I'm just a hypocrite like that.
Title: A holiday poll
Post by: rivka on December 16, 2008, 08:24:34 PM
Remind me to never give 9 of you directions to my parents' house. :P
Title: A holiday poll
Post by: pooka on December 16, 2008, 08:32:06 PM
Why, is there a street named poinsetta close by the one named poinsettia?
Title: A holiday poll
Post by: The Genuine on December 16, 2008, 09:20:58 PM
Do you pronounce Wednesday like Wednesday (Woden's day) or like Wendsday (Wend's day)?  Or some other way?
Title: A holiday poll
Post by: Tante Shvester on December 16, 2008, 10:24:23 PM
I pronounce poinsettia with three syllables, but vegetable and comfortable with four syllables each.  Wednesday, I pronounce "WENZ-day", or "WENDZ-day".
Title: A holiday poll
Post by: Porter on December 16, 2008, 11:51:28 PM
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I say comfortable and vegetable with three syllables each, but those aren't really analogous to poinsettia.
Of course not they're not -- you don't pronounce them with superfluous syllables. :P

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Wednesday, I pronounce "WENZ-day", or "WENDZ-day".
And February?
 
Title: A holiday poll
Post by: Tante Shvester on December 17, 2008, 12:05:34 AM
I grew up saying "FEB-you-rare-ee", but now I say "FEH-brew-airy".

I also used to pronounce "coupon" as "KYEW-pon" when I was growing up, but now I say "COO-pon".

And for "route", I still switch back and forth between "root" and "rowt".
Title: A holiday poll
Post by: Jonathon on December 17, 2008, 08:13:13 AM
How are you defining "superfluous", Porter? And anyway, I already explained how those two words are phonologically quite different from poinsettia.

Also, I say "WEN(D)Z-day" and "FEB-yoo-air-y".
Title: A holiday poll
Post by: Neutros the Radioactive Dragon on December 17, 2008, 08:14:28 AM
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I grew up saying "FEB-you-rare-ee", but now I say "FEH-brew-airy".

I also used to pronounce "coupon" as "KYEW-pon" when I was growing up, but now I say "COO-pon".

And for "route", I still switch back and forth between "root" and "rowt".
Tante. Get. Out. Of. My. Head.

I was thinking about both Wednesday and February this morning, then I find that you've posted.

I say "wendz-day", but when I spell it I think "wed-nes-day" to help remember the spelling.

No one seems to notice that I have always pronounced the second month of the calendar year "feb-ru-ary".

"coo-pon"

"rowt".

We seem to have the same accent.
Title: A holiday poll
Post by: Porter on December 17, 2008, 08:23:45 AM
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How are you defining "superfluous", Porter?
Extra, when compared to the common pronunciation.
Title: A holiday poll
Post by: Jonathon on December 17, 2008, 08:33:20 AM
I don't think a syllable or sound is superfluous just because it could be dropped but isn't. And anyway, just because you omit sounds sometimes in some words doesn't mean you need to omit them all the time in all possible words.
Title: A holiday poll
Post by: Porter on December 17, 2008, 08:48:32 AM
First of all, it's not that it could be dropped -- it's that it so commonly is dropped that dropping has become the standard, so much so that the syllable isn't dropped by anybody anymore, but instead is added by the minority.  Like you.

Secondly, let me refer you to the smiley that was part of that post (:P), which was intended to convey that I wasn't making a serious claim, but just teasing you.  
Title: A holiday poll
Post by: Jonathon on December 17, 2008, 08:52:19 AM
So you're saying I shouldn't be so literal? :P  
Title: A holiday poll
Post by: Porter on December 17, 2008, 09:59:53 AM
We may have finally maxed out.  :D
Title: A holiday poll
Post by: rivka on December 17, 2008, 12:30:07 PM
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First of all, it's not that it could be dropped -- it's that it so commonly is dropped that dropping has become the standard, so much so that the syllable isn't dropped by anybody anymore, but instead is added by the minority.
Are you claiming that is the case with poinsettia? Because not only do I think you are wrong (at least, outside of Utah), all the dictionaries I checked had the correct ;) pronunciation listed first.
Title: A holiday poll
Post by: The Genuine on December 17, 2008, 01:52:19 PM
(http://thewagglearena.files.wordpress.com/2008/06/north-pole.jpg)


A holiday pole.
Title: A holiday poll
Post by: Porter on December 17, 2008, 03:46:43 PM
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Quote
First of all, it's not that it could be dropped -- it's that it so commonly is dropped that dropping has become the standard, so much so that the syllable isn't dropped by anybody anymore, but instead is added by the minority.
Are you claiming that is the case with poinsettia? Because not only do I think you are wrong (at least, outside of Utah), all the dictionaries I checked had the correct ;) pronunciation listed first.
Yes, I was jokingly claiming that.

Also, I am not from Utah, and have only spent about a third of my life there.  

I do not recall ever hearing that word pronounced with 4 syllables.
Title: A holiday poll
Post by: rivka on December 17, 2008, 04:38:21 PM
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Also, I am not from Utah, and have only spent about a third of my life there. 
I know. :)

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I do not recall ever hearing that word pronounced with 4 syllables.
Ignorance is endemic. What else is new? ;)
 
Title: A holiday poll
Post by: Tante Shvester on December 17, 2008, 08:40:05 PM
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We seem to have the same accent.
My condolences.
Title: A holiday poll
Post by: Neutros the Radioactive Dragon on December 18, 2008, 09:01:03 AM
Indeed.
Title: A holiday poll
Post by: dkw on December 23, 2008, 03:47:23 PM
I am trying to figure out how one would pronounce "comfortable" with three syllables.

I am failing.

Oh, wait . . . comf-ter-ble?
Title: A holiday poll
Post by: Nighthawk on December 23, 2008, 04:47:49 PM
I pronounce it "comf-ta-ble".
Title: A holiday poll
Post by: Jonathon on December 23, 2008, 08:23:05 PM
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I am trying to figure out how one would pronounce "comfortable" with three syllables.

I am failing.

Oh, wait . . . comf-ter-ble?
Yup.
Title: A holiday poll
Post by: pooka on December 23, 2008, 08:55:15 PM
My younger sister says poinsettia with the "ia" ending, but was not sure that was how it was spelled.  She's pretty sure our mom says it without the i.  But she felt that in some way the "poi" dictated the "ia" which I don't understand at all.  Maybe it was a mnemonic she devised when she was very young.  She is also from Virginia, but spent 4-6th grades in Utah, I think.  I did not live in Utah until I was 17.  Mostly, I think it is not a reliable accent marker because it is a seasonal word for most people.
Title: A holiday poll
Post by: rivka on December 23, 2008, 09:22:57 PM
Quote
Quote
I am trying to figure out how one would pronounce "comfortable" with three syllables.

I am failing.

Oh, wait . . . comf-ter-ble?
Yup.
Indeed.
Title: A holiday poll
Post by: Neutros the Radioactive Dragon on December 24, 2008, 10:53:30 AM
In the words of Charlie Brown"

THAT'S IT!!!!!