GalacticCactus Forum
Forums => English & Linguistics => Topic started by: Jonathon on August 22, 2008, 02:43:07 PM
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I have a sentence that I'm trying to make sense of, and I can't quite figure out what it's supposed to be.
She described her first meal in Chile of artichokes on a skew of brazed beef tongue, fish, bacon wrapped around a prune, and shrimp as "very tasty."
Obviously "brazed" should be "braised," but I can't figure out "on a skew." "In a stew"? "On a skewer"? I just don't know. Any help would be great.
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On a skewer, definitely, because of the bacon-wrapping. That's a BBQ/skewering technique, not a stewing technique.
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But maybe not all the things in the list are on the skewer or in the stew. It's impossible to tell whether it's [artichokes on [a skew of brazed beef tongue, fish, bacon wrapped around a prune, and shrimp]] or [[artichokes on a skew of brazed beef tongue], [fish], [bacon wrapped around a prune], and [shrimp]].
And what's the deal with setting the artichokes apart? If those things are all on a skewer, why not "a skew of artichokes, brazed beef tongue, fish, bacon wrapped around a prune, and shrimp"?
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Don't know, but I'm hungry now.
Let me add: Mesquite Grilled.
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And what's the deal with setting the artichokes apart?
I think the answer is as simple as: the person who set the artichokes apart in that sentence is the same person who wrote the rest of that sentence.
What the heck is that sentence from, anyway?
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A history of the LDS Church in South America. I'm really not sure why the author felt that was worth including, but it's far too late to do anything about it now.
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Which part is a problem? Why not just put commas around the contents of the meal? And I'm down with "skew" = "skewer". Of course, only the author knows what was meant -- possibly.
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Which part is a problem?
"Skew." It does not mean the same thing as "skewer," and I'm not sure that's what the author meant anyway.
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Which part is a problem?
"Skew." It does not mean the same thing as "skewer,"
True. Skewer is more skewed than skew, but not as skewed as skewest, which is the most skewed of all.
Hope this helps clear things up.
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Could be "slew" as in a whole lot of braised beef tongue.
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My main argument for skewer is the bacon wrapped prune part. It's hard to keep bacon wrapped around something without a skewer. To leave it "skew" makes no sense, unless there is a defnition of skew I'm not familiar with. While this is possible, it seems like you wouldn't be asking if that were the case.
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I think she means that the whole meal was askew.
On a related and fortunately relevant note, I learned the Chinese character for skewer today: ?
Isn't that fantastic? And who said the Golden Age of the Pictograph was dead?
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"Hi honey, I'm home! What's for dinner?"
"Rectangles on a stick!"
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I think she means that the whole meal was askew.
On a related and fortunately relevant note, I learned the Chinese character for skewer today: ?
Isn't that fantastic? And who said the Golden Age of the Pictograph was dead?
Yeah. I think the Chinese nailed it on that one.
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"Put your seatbacks in the upright position" or "put your seat backs in the upright position"? Google is inconclusive.
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The American Heritage Dictionary has "seatback (http://www.bartleby.com/61/62/S0196200.html)." The OED has "seat-back," but it's apparently referring to the covering of the back of the seat. I can't find it in Merriam-Webster's.
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Cool!
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AHD's .wav of seatback sounds creepy as hell. Like a ghost is possessing my machine.
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Say "SeaTTTback" three times in a row while in an airplane restroom and Faye Tucker will burst in through the fuselage and drag you down to hell.
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AHD's .wav of seatback sounds creepy as hell. Like a ghost is possessing my machine.
Holy crap yes.
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According to various sources I've found, till, 'til, and 'till are all acceptable shortened forms of until. I also discovered that till actually predates until, while the forms with the apostrophes are recent inventions. However, using till as a preposition and not a verb still looks wrong to me. I wouldn't want some overzealous editor to see it and think I'm just ignorant. Artistic license is great and all, but there's a right way to be wrong.
So what I'm looking for is statistics on current usage. Since google doesn't apparently parse the apostrophe, and it doesn't distinguish between till the preposition and till the verb, I'm at a loss as to how to determine which shortened form is most commonly used today. Then I thought to myself, "Self, there is just one place where you can get help with that question."
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AHD's .wav of seatback sounds creepy as hell. Like a ghost is possessing my machine.
Holy crap yes.
Happy Halloween from AHD!
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So what about traytable?
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According to various sources I've found, till, 'til, and 'till are all acceptable shortened forms of until. I also discovered that till actually predates until, while the forms with the apostrophes are recent inventions. However, using till as a preposition and not a verb still looks wrong to me. I wouldn't want some overzealous editor to see it and think I'm just ignorant. Artistic license is great and all, but there's a right way to be wrong.
So what I'm looking for is statistics on current usage. Since google doesn't apparently parse the apostrophe, and it doesn't distinguish between till the preposition and till the verb, I'm at a loss as to how to determine which shortened form is most commonly used today. Then I thought to myself, "Self, there is just one place where you can get help with that question."
And you came here instead? ;)
I'd love to get you some really exact numbers, but I'm having a hard time figuring out how to use this corpus (http://www.americancorpus.org/). I searched for "till" and "til", but it didn't like "'till" or "'til". So all I can give you so far is 7965 for "till" and "997" for "til", but those numbers are pretty clear.
One nitpick: none of those are shortened forms of "until" any more than "to" is a shortened form of "unto". "Till" is actually just the Old Norse equivalent of "to" which was borrowed during the late Old English period. And you realize, of course, that the hypothetical overzealous editor is really the ignorant one, right?
Anyway, if those numbers aren't good enough, here's what I was taught in one of my editing classes: "Till" is absolutely fine and is preferable. "'Til" is technically wrong, but it's common enough that a lot of people actually prefer it and think it's right. "'Till" is a weird hybrid of the two that should be avoided.
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One nitpick: none of those are shortened forms of "until" any more than "to" is a shortened form of "unto". "Till" is actually just the Old Norse equivalent of "to" which was borrowed during the late Old English period. And you realize, of course, that the hypothetical overzealous editor is really the ignorant one, right?
I thought my post made it clear I was aware of both of those things.
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Oh, and thanks. :)
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"Till" is absolutely fine and is preferable. "'Til" is technically wrong, but it's common enough that a lot of people actually prefer it and think it's right. "'Till" is a weird hybrid of the two that should be avoided.
Huh?
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I thought my post made it clear I was aware of both of those things.
I wasn't quite sure, but at any rate it's not the important issue. And you're welcome.
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"Till" is absolutely fine and is preferable. "'Til" is technically wrong, but it's common enough that a lot of people actually prefer it and think it's right. "'Till" is a weird hybrid of the two that should be avoided.
Huh?
The second one is preceded by an apostrophe. I suppose I should have done them in italics rather than in quotes to be clear.
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Huh. I like the weird hybrid.
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That's what SHE said!
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It took me a minute to figure out what "till" as a verb was. I would have said the common other usage of the word was as a noun. *shrug*
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Is rolling eyes a cliché? I find a fair amount of support for the assertion that it is online. But I see rolling eyes as fundamentally different from, say, "his eyes slid down her bosom" or some such nonsense. I don't think rolling eyes is really a metaphor--I think it describes an actual action, and one that is very common in some situations. I'm writing about an adolescent protagonist, and if "he rolled his eyes" is out of my arsenal, then I may as well just quit. Adolescents roll their eyes all the freaking time, and it's not the same to say, "he looked upward" or something like that.
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Eye rolling, shrugging, slouching, shuffling, and all that are fair game, in my book.
Or, well, if I had a book.
You know what? I think I do have a book!
(Don't you roll your eyes at ME, mister!)
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Is rolling eyes a cliché? I find a fair amount of support for the assertion that it is online. But I see rolling eyes as fundamentally different from, say, "his eyes slid down her bosom" or some such nonsense. I don't think rolling eyes is really a metaphor--I think it describes an actual action, and one that is very common in some situations.
Yup. Not a cliche at all. Did someone tell you that it is?
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Yes.
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I agree with Esther and Jonathon. For exhibit A, I present my 14-year-old daughter. For exhibit B, my almost-12-year-old son.
If their eyes were suddenly unable to roll (and it's amazing how far they go -- to a degree that is physically impossible in anyone over the age of 20), I think they might explode.
. . . hey, I could get behind this . . .
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Capitalization rules are so stupid sometimes. If I follow what's in Chicago, I end up with this title Power from On High, which looks strange. But Power from on High looks weird too, and I'm not sure if I can justify Power From On High (which I think would be my preference).
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Coincidentally, Jonathon, did you get to see the university forum today?
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I caught a few minutes of it when I was across the hall and someone turned it on. I'll listen to the full thing later.
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In your example, I'd capitalize the whole thing, "Power From On High", based on the rule of it looks right to me.
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Actually, so would I.
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Yeah, I'm thinking that aesthetics wins out here.
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Yeah, I'm thinking that aesthetics wins out here.
Should that not be "aesthetics win out here" ?
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Maybe it could be, but it isn't.
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Have you ever considered becoming a lawyer?
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Oh, gosh, no. :P
Though I do believe that the ability to analyze language is very helpful to the field of law.
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In large part because the people who make the laws don't realize what they're making.
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I've thought of being a lawyer. Though when I was a junior, I thought that was the worst idea ever.
I've used "Till" since one of my English teachers said it was legit. I forget whether I was told that " 'til" is wrong at that time.