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Forums => English & Linguistics => Topic started by: Porter on May 07, 2008, 07:45:25 AM

Title: Chocolate Troi
Post by: Porter on May 07, 2008, 07:45:25 AM
One of our baby goats is named Troi (the sister of Picard and Riker), and is a rich chocolate color.  She gets called "Chocolate Troi" by the children.

When I say "Chocolate Troi", the first sound of each word sounds identical.  "Troi" sounds like "chroy".  Is this normal?  Is this just happening because it's being said after "chocolate"?
Title: Chocolate Troi
Post by: Noemon on May 07, 2008, 08:49:01 AM
"Chroi" is really hard for me to say.  My mouth just doesn't want to move in  that way.

When I say "Chocolate Troi" (which I've been sitting here in my cube doing for the last minute or so, probably to the bemusement of my coworkers), it ends up coming out either "chocolate 'troi" or "chocola' tshroi", depending on the way some butterfly in China's wings are flapping.  In the former case, there's a suggestion of an "sh" sound to the "t" in "troi", but it isn't very pronounced.
Title: Chocolate Troi
Post by: Porter on May 07, 2008, 08:50:36 AM
I just realized that I don't pronounce the 't' at the end of 'chocolate' when I'm saying those two words together.  My tongue goes up to the top of my mouth, but it just kinda stays there, ending the word.  Is that a glottal stop?

edit: Or if I'm saying it fast, the 't' just gets skipped.
Title: Chocolate Troi
Post by: Noemon on May 07, 2008, 09:00:56 AM
Yeah, I do the same thing if I'm saying the word by itself.

The sound that I make out of the "T" in "Troi" really isn't quite an "sh" or a "ch" sound.  Kind of a "tch", but not exactly.
Title: Chocolate Troi
Post by: Porter on May 07, 2008, 09:05:08 AM
I don't think that there's a difference between "tch" and "ch" to me.

But then, I also don't think there's a difference between how I pronounce "where", "wear", and "ware".
Title: Chocolate Troi
Post by: Jonathon on May 07, 2008, 09:57:41 AM
In English, when /t/ is followed by /r/, it becomes more retroflex, meaning the tip of the tongue curls towards the roof of the mouth. The combination of a retroflex /t/ and /r/ sounds a lot like /t?r/ ("chr"), but not quite.

Noemon: There isn't any difference between "ch" and "tch"; or rather, if you think there's a difference, that doesn't seem to capture it. The IPA symbol for the "ch" sound is actually two symbols (sometimes written as a ligature): /t?/. It's just the symbol for "t" plus the one for "sh." So if "ch" is /t?/, then "tch" is /tt?/, which probably isn't what you meant.

Porter: There probably isn't any difference between your pronunciations of "where," "wear," and "ware." Presumably you also pronounce "whale" and "wail" the same, and "marry," "merry," and "Mary" the same.
Title: Chocolate Troi
Post by: Porter on May 07, 2008, 09:59:30 AM
Yup.  My pronunciation space appears to be quite cramped.
Title: Chocolate Troi
Post by: pooka on May 07, 2008, 12:40:35 PM
I noticed this when I was in Middle school, thinking about my name at the time, Tricia Chiu.  (Chiu being pronounced Choo- the i doesn't do anything.)