GalacticCactus Forum

Forums => English & Linguistics => Topic started by: Jonathon on September 21, 2006, 01:32:43 PM

Title: Between you and I
Post by: Jonathon on September 21, 2006, 01:32:43 PM

I just learned that, contrary to popular belief, this construction is at least four hundred years old. The first few relevant quotations from the OED are from Shakespearean plays and sonnets, and there's a usage note following the definition: "This was very frequent in end of 16th and in 17th c., but is now considered ungrammatical." You learn something new every day, I guess.

Title: Between you and I
Post by: Porter on September 21, 2006, 01:33:16 PM

Huh.

Title: Between you and I
Post by: Jonathon on September 21, 2006, 01:49:50 PM

Apparently it's a victim of the recency and frequency illusions (http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/%7Emyl/languagelog/archives/002386.html). Maybe it really is increasing in frequency, but it could also be that there's simply an increased awareness of the usage (or maybe both).

Title: Between you and I
Post by: Porter on September 21, 2006, 02:01:56 PM

That's some fascinating stuff there.

Title: Between you and I
Post by: spacepook on September 21, 2006, 03:09:47 PM

So does that make it good or awesome?

Title: Between you and I
Post by: pooka on September 21, 2006, 03:10:43 PM

Crap, that was me and I thought I deleted it.

 

Title: Between you and I
Post by: Porter on September 21, 2006, 03:42:15 PM

I heard somebody use that construction today, and because of this article, I didn't correct them.

Title: Between you and I
Post by: Tante Shvester on September 21, 2006, 03:59:34 PM

I guess that makes you a better person.  Congratulations.

Title: Between you and I
Post by: Porter on September 21, 2006, 04:02:00 PM

What really makes me a better person is that I eschew the high road.

Title: Between you and I
Post by: rivka on September 21, 2006, 05:43:41 PM

What does it taste like? I've often wondered.

Title: Between you and I
Post by: Porter on September 21, 2006, 05:51:26 PM

It's minty.

Title: Between you and I
Post by: Jonathon on September 21, 2006, 07:58:47 PM

Well, apparently there's more to the issue than "it's been around for a while, but then people decided it was wrong." According to Merriam-Webster's Dictionary of English Usage, "between you and I" seemed to drop out of usage in the early eighteenth century and then reappeared in the mid-nineteenth century. It could very well be that it's surging in popularity right now, but nobody has any data on it.