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Forums => English & Linguistics => Topic started by: Jonathon on June 05, 2006, 08:15:45 AM

Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on June 05, 2006, 08:15:45 AM
I just came across this snappy little couplet in a manual I'm working on:

Quote
To remember how to use the volatility index, think of this simple rhyme:

When the VIX/VXO/VXN is high, it’s time to buy.

When the VIX/VXO/VXN is low, look out below.
Simple indeed. If you can figure out how to pronounce it, that is.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Noemon on June 05, 2006, 08:52:16 AM
I read it as "vicks vox vuxen".  Sometimes a touch of dyslexia and a willingness to throw in a few vowels is a real help.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on June 05, 2006, 09:04:46 AM
Quote
I read it as "vicks vox vuxen".
Me too. After all, if VSEPR is read "vesper," this one is easy.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on June 05, 2006, 06:20:27 PM
Well, it still doesn't scan well. :P  
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: pooka on June 07, 2006, 09:45:15 AM
On CMT/CPD/
On DNDR/BLTZN :santa:  
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on June 16, 2006, 11:22:14 AM
My boss just used the word "miscellaneously" where she clearly meant "mistakenly." :huh:  
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: pooka on June 16, 2006, 11:45:59 AM
Wow.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Sheila on June 16, 2006, 12:53:45 PM
*insert "nihilistic" anecdote here*
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Mr. Anderson on June 17, 2006, 06:31:25 PM
Quote
My boss just used the word "miscellaneously" where she clearly meant "mistakenly." :huh:
I miscellaneously used the word "miscellaneously" for "mistakenly."

*head a-splode*
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on June 21, 2006, 10:15:51 AM
"It’s amazing the impact what we think can have on the bottom line."
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on June 21, 2006, 10:17:06 AM
Here's what I heard from my boss today:
Quote
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on June 21, 2006, 10:18:23 AM
Wow. So your boss is mute, eh?


My quote was from a course manual, by the way.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on June 21, 2006, 10:25:33 AM
About the only time I hear from my boss is when I call him up.

I haven't called him today, so I haven't heard anything from him.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: pooka on June 21, 2006, 12:39:29 PM
Did you mean to put quotes around that bottom line sentence?  You know, the one that in English would read "What we think can have an amazing impact on the bottom line."
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on June 21, 2006, 12:43:56 PM
Yes.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Mr. Anderson on June 21, 2006, 09:33:11 PM
Ah, that's why I thought you were going insane, or I was going insane.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on July 06, 2006, 10:12:43 AM
I've had several conversations with my boss that have gone something like this:

Boss: Can you do X?

Me: Sure.

Boss: You have?

Me: No . . .

Boss: Oh, okay. But can you?

Me: Yeah . . .


I really don't understand what's going on in conversations like that.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: dkw on July 06, 2006, 11:49:24 AM
I recently had a pre-marital session where the future groom kept using "consummate" when he meant either "consecrate" or "celebrate."  At least, I assume he doesn't want to "publicly consummate the marriage," or "finally consummate the marriage with all their friends and family present."

He used it about 5 or 6 times, too.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on July 06, 2006, 11:52:32 AM
>.<

Ooh, poor guy. Someone should've let him know. "You keep using that word. I don't think it means what you think it means."
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: dkw on July 06, 2006, 11:57:21 AM
Yeah.  If it had been a private counseling session, or any other situation with just me and the couple I would have.  But at the time I thought it would be more embarassing for him if I drew attention to it in front of other people.  And there was no chance to pull him aside.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on July 06, 2006, 12:35:31 PM
Let's hope that he really is ignorant about the meaning of that word and that the wedding party doesn't get a really unpleasant surprise.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on July 19, 2006, 03:06:09 PM
Quote
Receive $2.25 per share from the sell of the option
Utah English strikes again!
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on July 19, 2006, 03:07:55 PM
How is that Utah English?
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on July 19, 2006, 03:11:08 PM
Because to many Utahns, words like "sell" and "sale" rhyme, so many people end up using the wrong one. People who pronounce these words differently have no problem using the right one.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on July 19, 2006, 03:14:19 PM
How can they rhyme without being pronounced the same?

And if they are pronounced the same, how can you tell which one was said?
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Brinestone on July 19, 2006, 03:16:46 PM
They are pronounced the same in Utah English, which results in some people not being able to differentiate between them, which results in the error Jon Boy posted. I'm not sure what you're asking, actually.  :huh:  
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on July 19, 2006, 03:18:58 PM
Quote
How can they rhyme without being pronounced the same?
I'm confused. I didn't say that they rhyme without being pronounced the same.

Quote
And if they are pronounced the same, how can you tell which one was said?
Because one is a verb and one is a noun. It's easy to tell from the context which one was intended.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on July 19, 2006, 03:24:47 PM
OK, how can you tell that the speaker said
Quote
Receive $2.25 per share from the sell of the option
instead of
Quote
Receive $2.25 per share from the sale of the option
if "sell" and "sale" sound the same?
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on July 19, 2006, 03:48:24 PM
That depends on whether you're talking about the sounds that came out of their mouth or the meanings that they intended. Either way, they sequence of sounds /s?l/ came out. However, you can tell which word they meant by context. In that instance, the word in question is obviously a noun. "Sale" is a noun and "sell" is a verb, so you know that they meant "sale."
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on July 19, 2006, 03:50:25 PM
Quote
In that instance, the word in question is obviously a noun. "Sale" is a noun and "sell" is a verb, so you know that they meant "sale."
So how do you know they said "sell" instead of "sale"?

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on July 19, 2006, 03:59:23 PM
Ah. I think I realize why you're confused. This quote was written, not spoken, so I know exactly what it said and exactly what it should have said.

But this also indicates that to the author, "sale" and "sell" are pronounced the same (they both sound like "sell"). If they didn't sound the same to the other, then the author wouldn't've used the wrong word.

Does that make sense?
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on July 19, 2006, 04:05:06 PM
Quote
Ah. I think I realize why you're confused. This quote was written, not spoken, so I know exactly what it said and exactly what it should have said.
Huzzah!

Thankyouthankyouthankyou.

I am no longer crazy. :wub:
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on July 19, 2006, 04:14:32 PM
By the way, my favorite written example of Utah English was a sign that said, "Field Dirt Wanted." I drove past that sign for months before I figured out what it was really asking for.

And now I'll drive you crazy again by letting you try to figure it out.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on July 19, 2006, 04:19:53 PM
Quote
Field Dirt Wanted
:lol:
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on July 19, 2006, 06:44:54 PM
<-- doesn't speak Utah English

<-- doesn't remember the answer

Fill dirt?
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on July 19, 2006, 06:46:41 PM
Yup.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on July 19, 2006, 07:10:33 PM
Now comes the real question. What on earth is fill dirt?
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on July 19, 2006, 07:12:32 PM
When building buildings on the side of a hill, you need to level it out first.  This is usually either done by digging it out or by adding dirt to fill it in.

The dirt that you use to fill in is fill dirt.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on July 19, 2006, 07:19:30 PM
And this is different from plain old dirt how?
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on July 19, 2006, 07:19:45 PM
Purpose.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on July 19, 2006, 07:20:56 PM
So fill dirt has a goal in life?
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: pooka on July 19, 2006, 07:22:29 PM
It doesn't have to be topsail  ;)  
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on July 19, 2006, 07:22:48 PM
If you asked for some dirt, I might grab a bucket of it to give to you.

If you ask for fill dirt, I know you'll probably need dozens of cubic yards.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on July 19, 2006, 07:27:31 PM
Ok, I guess that makes sense.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on July 19, 2006, 07:29:51 PM
Yay!
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: JT on July 20, 2006, 08:41:00 AM
Quote
Ah. I think I realize why you're confused. This quote was written, not spoken, so I know exactly what it said and exactly what it should have said.

I understood right away, if it makes you feel better.

Fill dirt is different than regular dirt in some places, because the consistency and components of regular dirt aren't always allowable for building.

Example, in coastal Florida, the 'regular' dirt is silty (as you might guess) and, as such, isn't much good for fill dirt.  I seem to remember a bible verse saying why that is (though rivka might not be familiar with it ;) ).
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on July 20, 2006, 08:53:04 AM
Quote
I understood right away, if it makes you feel better.
I feel much better now. <_<
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: JT on July 20, 2006, 08:57:12 AM
You should feel better, too, though not because I understood.

At least this misunderstanding didn't come from a hyperliteral reading of the initial post, but from a genuine misinterpretation.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on July 20, 2006, 09:00:01 AM
Yup. The word "said" is ambiguous because it can apply to both speech and writing, along with more abstract concepts.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on July 20, 2006, 09:09:36 AM
Quote
At least this misunderstanding didn't come from a genuine misinterpretation of the initial post, but from a genuine misinterpretation.
There.  I fixed it for you. :pirate:
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Sheila on August 01, 2006, 10:19:15 AM
Quote
Done sent to team for comments.

 
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: pooka on August 01, 2006, 11:59:22 AM
Is that "Done sent" or "Done, sent"?
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Sheila on August 01, 2006, 12:00:53 PM
Exactly.

edit: I'm sure he meant the second, but the first is what the email says.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on August 01, 2006, 12:43:54 PM
Or he speaks redneck.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: skillery on August 02, 2006, 01:55:38 PM
Quote
"vicks vox vuxen"
What the Swedish gentleman said when he took his pet fox to the vet to be neutered.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on August 03, 2006, 12:05:58 PM
I keep seeing "Acc. Dist." on this page and thinking it says "Acc. Dat." (abbreviations for two grammatical cases). Obviously my subconscious yearns to relearn Old English.

On the other hand, I keep seeing "bullish" and seeing something else. So maybe my subconscious is just playing tricks on me.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on January 18, 2007, 10:37:09 AM
I saw a gem of a quote last night: "The key to motivation is motive." Awe-inspiring, it is. I think I feel a paradigm shift coming on.

Also, my brain refuses to recognize "empathic" as a word; I always see it as "emphatic" first. But "emphatic listening" just doesn't make much sense.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on January 18, 2007, 11:29:03 AM
Sure it does. It means to listen really hard.

Welcome to the language of self-help books. It'll shift your paradigm all right.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on January 18, 2007, 12:08:06 PM
Whenever I synergize, I get a strange tingling sensation. Should I be concerned?
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on January 18, 2007, 12:40:25 PM
This is a family forum, Jonathon.  Don't you think you ought to dial it back a notch?
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on January 18, 2007, 12:50:39 PM
:innocent:  
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on January 18, 2007, 01:09:17 PM
Quote
Whenever I synergize, I get a strange tingling sensation. Should I be concerned?
This is an indication that the sync cable for your PDA is leaking electricity. Time for a new cable!
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on January 18, 2007, 01:09:53 PM
All this talk of pardigms, shifting no less!  I tell you, when I was a kid, paradigms knew their place.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on January 18, 2007, 01:42:48 PM
Hey, it's the '90s. Times have changed, man. Get with it.


I have a feeling that this job is going to supply a lot of great quotes.
Quote
To listen empathically is to listen with the heart. The word “heart” also contains the words “ear,” “hear,” and “art.”
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on January 18, 2007, 01:58:11 PM
Quote
To listen empathically is to listen with the heart. The word “heart” also contains the words “ear,” “hear,” and “art.”
It's like numerology.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on January 18, 2007, 02:20:10 PM
Even worse. It's like the Bible Codes.
 
 
Did I mention that my ex adores these books? >.<
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on January 18, 2007, 02:20:38 PM
Bible Codes or Covey's stuff?
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on January 18, 2007, 02:53:06 PM
Covey.

My ex is addicted to self-help books and self-help gurus.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on January 18, 2007, 03:05:16 PM
The whole idea of a self-help guru is an odd one.  If the idea is to help myself, why do I need to buy your book?
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on January 18, 2007, 03:23:54 PM
Porter, you are spot on today!  I keep reading your posts and cracking the heck up.  You are in the ZONE, man!
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on January 18, 2007, 04:09:02 PM
Quote
The whole idea of a self-help guru is an odd one.  If the idea is to help myself, why do I need to buy your book?
Don't get me started . . .

Especially since many of them have pretty sucky track records when it comes to their own personal lives. Not Covey particularly. But a certain divorced-his-wife-of-25-years-and-married-his-assistant-who-was-half-his-age person comes to mind.

 :P  
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on January 18, 2007, 05:34:04 PM
Who would that be, Rivka? I haven't studied up on my self-help gurus.

One interesting thing I've already noticed: the original book is far better than any of the stuff written about the book (not that the original doesn't have its share of trite aphorisms, overgeneralizations, and whatnot). All the stuff I've quoted here, for instance, is fluffy commentary presumably written by people in marketing.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on January 18, 2007, 05:58:14 PM
Really, really tall guy. Featured in Shallow Hal.

I'm sorry, that man's name may not be spoken in my home.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on January 18, 2007, 06:50:38 PM
Quote
Especially since many of them have pretty sucky track records when it comes to their own personal lives. Not Covey particularly. But a certain divorced-his-wife-of-25-years-and-married-his-assistant-who-was-half-his-age person comes to mind.
It sounds like he actualized his goal.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on January 18, 2007, 07:59:17 PM
There was probably some synergizing or paradigm shifting going on, too. Sicko. <_<  
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on January 19, 2007, 08:30:02 AM
Quote
Quote
The whole idea of a self-help guru is an odd one.  If the idea is to help myself, why do I need to buy your book?
Don't get me started . . .

Especially since many of them have pretty sucky track records when it comes to their own personal lives. Not Covey particularly. But a certain divorced-his-wife-of-25-years-and-married-his-assistant-who-was-half-his-age person comes to mind.

 :P
It looks to me like he helped himself to whatever he wanted.  How appropriate for a self-help guru.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on January 19, 2007, 09:16:59 AM
I wonder if self-help gurus really like eating at buffets.

Also, how do they deal with it when they have to buy gas in Oregon or New Jersey?
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on January 19, 2007, 10:09:32 AM
Easy!  They just shift their paradigms!

Duh!
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on January 19, 2007, 10:28:47 AM
The pervs.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on January 19, 2007, 10:42:21 AM
::nods sagely::
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on January 23, 2007, 08:31:38 AM
Quote
Love is a value that is actualized through action. So, is love a verb or a feeling? The proactive mind subordinates feelings to values. Pssst . . . make love a verb!
*wallbash*

action != verb
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on January 23, 2007, 08:58:02 AM
I would disagree, but I can't figure out how to do that in a purely action-oriented manner, thus making my sentence incomplete.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on January 23, 2007, 10:03:02 AM
:P

To clarify, there are lots of verbs that do not name actions, and there are lots of things that could be called actions that are not predicative parts of speech. For more examples of the annoying "x is a verb" trend, see here (http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/003856.html), here (http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/003520.html), and here (http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/001729.html).  
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on January 23, 2007, 10:42:23 AM
Honestly, that doesn't bother me.  Saying "X is a verb", while not being techincally correct, communicates an idea very effectively.

Although it does seem kinda dumb to actually start using X as a verb, like in your third link.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on January 23, 2007, 11:02:11 AM
I see it more as a quick and easy alternative to communicating clearly, precisely, and accurately.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on January 23, 2007, 11:14:05 AM
I'll agree on the accurately, but to me at least, it commicates very clearly and precisely.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: pooka on January 24, 2007, 08:33:58 AM
Quote
Really, really tall guy. Featured in Shallow Hal.
 Now I'm going to have to see Shallow Hal out of morbid curiosity.  Was it actually him or someone based on him?
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: JT on January 24, 2007, 10:38:13 AM
The real deal Holyfield.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: pooka on January 24, 2007, 12:06:03 PM
Oh, I checked on IMdB and it wasn't who I thought.  There was another guy, the original founder of Franklin Quest did that too.  Then Stephen Covey's company merged with it, and tried to clean up the image a bit.  It is good to remember Korihor*, who taught that everyone fared "according to the management of the creature" and that every man prospered according to his strength, and whatever man did was no sin.

Still, I do keep a calendar and week-at-a-glance now.  

* a bad guy in the book of Mormon
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on January 24, 2007, 05:50:55 PM
Quote
I'll agree on the accurately, but to me at least, it commicates very clearly and precisely.
"Love is an action" is just as clear and precise, with the added bonus of not making you look like you flunked English class. ;)  
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on January 24, 2007, 05:52:34 PM
Good point.  I think you're right.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: imogen on January 27, 2007, 09:49:39 AM
Nothing to do with the topic, I just wanted to say I wholly appreciate rivka's sig (and porter's words.).
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on January 31, 2007, 08:08:20 AM
Here's a great misread quote:

“When you get to the end of your rope, tie a knot in it and hang.” —Eleanor Roosevelt

The first time I missed the "on" at the end.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on January 31, 2007, 08:31:11 AM
That does change the meaning quite a bit.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Brinestone on January 31, 2007, 08:31:24 AM
:lol:  :blink:  
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on January 31, 2007, 01:14:00 PM
Perhaps someone would rather tie a knot and hang than end a sentence in a preposition.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on January 31, 2007, 01:46:05 PM
Except that it's really an adverb. :P  
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on January 31, 2007, 01:53:47 PM
::hangs head::
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on January 31, 2007, 01:56:16 PM
It's okay; we all make mistakes, after all.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on January 31, 2007, 02:21:22 PM
Yeah, just give me enough rope...
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on February 02, 2007, 09:56:11 AM
I have just lost all faith in the accuracy of the quotes we use in our planners. I just came across one that was attributed to "Marlene vos Savant." That's the way her name appears in the book of collected quotes that was used as a source.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on February 02, 2007, 10:05:33 AM
I assume they're talking about Marilyn vos Savant?
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on February 02, 2007, 10:35:42 AM
Yup. Google returns 68 hits for "Being defeated is often only a temporary condition. Giving up is what makes it permanent. Marlene vos Savant" and 443 for "Being defeated is often only a temporary condition. Giving up is what makes it permanent. Marilyn vos Savant."
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on February 22, 2007, 11:10:54 AM
"It takes less time to do a thing right than it does to explain why you did it wrong." —Henry Wadsworth Longfellow

I heartily disagree. That's the beauty of excuses—they take remarkably little time and effort.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Farmgirl on February 22, 2007, 11:35:57 AM
Quote
Are you bored with life? Then throw yourself into some work you believe in with all your heart. Live for it, die for it, and you will find happiness that you had thought could never be yours.
   - Dale Carnegie

That was on our company home page today.  I really really like that quote.

FG
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on February 22, 2007, 01:05:01 PM
Here's one for Porter:
Quote
Chop your own wood, and it will warm you twice.
—Henry Ford
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on April 17, 2007, 10:39:35 AM
This one's a bit of a head-scratcher.
Quote
To listen is an effort, and just to hear is no merit. A duck hears also.
—Igor Stravinsky
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on April 17, 2007, 10:50:53 AM
Quote
Here's one for Porter:
Quote
Chop your own wood, and it will warm you twice.
—Henry Ford
It's true.  :cool:  
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on April 17, 2007, 01:01:02 PM
Quote
This one's a bit of a head-scratcher.
 
How so?
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on April 17, 2007, 01:04:05 PM
It's just such a bizarre example. I mean, is "duck" really at the top of the list of things that hear but don't listen? Do ducks have no merit? Do they make no effort? It just seems really strange to me.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on April 17, 2007, 01:06:22 PM
I'm guessing that you, unlike Igor, never tried reasoning with a duck.  I do believe that his first wife was a duck, so there is a bit of a barb intended there for her and his ex-in-laws.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on April 17, 2007, 01:21:27 PM
You guess wrong, my dear Shvester. I have had many interesting and thought-provoking conversations with ducks. Their comical appearance belies a depth of intellect and wisdom not often found in the animal kingdom.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on April 17, 2007, 02:07:35 PM
Well then, I stand corrected.  And lest you accuse me of bigotry, let me state for the record that some of my best friends are quacks.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on April 17, 2007, 04:31:19 PM
Quote
This one's a bit of a head-scratcher.
Quote
To listen is an effort, and just to hear is no merit. A duck hears also.
—Igor Stravinsky
Those nutty Russians.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: dkw on May 03, 2007, 08:56:26 AM
I just had a phone conversation lasting less than 2 minutes and the other person used the phrase "per se" at least four times.  Incorrectly.  It seemed like she was just using it as a filler-sound.  Or maybe to mean "at all."

"I'm not a member of your church per se."

"Well, I don't have a ride per se."  

 
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on May 03, 2007, 09:11:05 AM
I guess I don't know how it's used correctly, because neither of those sound wrong to me.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on May 03, 2007, 09:21:14 AM
It means "by itself" or "intrinsically." I think it's becoming increasingly common* for people to use it to mean something more like "technically" or "actually."

*This could just be an example of the recency illusion.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on May 03, 2007, 09:24:19 AM
I actually looked it up, and then within 30 seconds saw that DKW had used it correctly over on Entropical.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on May 03, 2007, 09:34:02 AM
It's easy to see the semantic creep involved, though. Take her post over there:
Quote
He can be frustrating and annoying, but I don't think he's done anything wrong per se.
The meaning here is that being frustrating and annoying are not intrinsically wrong, or that they are not wrong by themselves. But in a looser sense, you can replace "per se" with "technically."
Quote
He can be frustrating and annoying, but I don't think he's done anything technically wrong.
But this doesn't work in reverse—you can't (or maybe shouldn't) replace "technically" with "intrinsically."
Quote
I don't technically have a ride.
*I don't intrinsically have a ride.
*I don't have a ride by itself.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: dkw on May 03, 2007, 09:54:38 AM
I guess the sentences I quoted above could be correct in other circumstances.  If, say, the woman had been attending our church for awhile but wasn't technically a member.  As opposed to never having set foot in the building at all, which is the reality in this case.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on May 09, 2007, 12:37:44 PM
I'm always amused to see how many of the inspirational quotes in our planners contradict each other. For example: "Argue for your limitations, and sure enough, they're yours" and "Accept your limitations and you go past them." Uh . . . so which is it? Or do we just care more about giving people warm fuzzies than we do about giving them real advice?
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on May 09, 2007, 01:55:32 PM
Quote
Or do we just care more about giving people warm fuzzies than we do about giving them real advice?
Um, DUH!
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on May 09, 2007, 06:47:17 PM
Quote
Or do we just care more about giving people warm fuzzies than we do about giving them real advice?
DING, DING, DING! Welcome to the world of self-help publications. :P
 
 
 
Although honestly, I don't see those two as contradictory. Accepting your limitations is not the same as fighting to not overcome them.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on May 09, 2007, 08:21:54 PM
Quote
Accepting your limitations is not the same as fighting to not overcome them.
But what it is is not fighting to overcome them.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on May 09, 2007, 08:25:43 PM
I'm confused. Where did "fighting to not overcome them" come from?
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on May 09, 2007, 09:27:29 PM
Quote
"Argue for your limitations, and sure enough, they're yours"
To me, that implies not merely accepting your limitation, but actively fighting to stay limited.

Perhaps an example will help. I have a coworker whose computer skills are minimal. When I or someone else try to teach her how to do things, she resists very strongly. Hanging onto her limitations as hard as she can.

I have another coworker who thinks he can do all sorts of things that they actually cannot. That is, he refuses to accept his limitations -- or even admit to them.

My favorite co-worker is pretty good at admitting what she doesn't know, and asking someone who DOES know to teach/explain. She accepts her limitations and works past them.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on May 10, 2007, 09:19:06 PM
So that was clear?

Or was it so unclear that you are ignoring it and hoping it will just go away?

Because I thought of another good example . . .  ;)
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on May 11, 2007, 07:49:05 AM
I was just thinking about it and then didn't get around to responding. I don't see a huge distinction between accepting one's limitations and arguing for them—at least not a significant one. For example, I am not a concert pianist. And considering that I don't play the piano, I probably never will be. This is a limitation. I accept it. Now, if someone tells me that I can do it if I try, I could easily argue with them and tell them why I can't. Between accepting and arguing, nothing has changed in my ability or my mindset, so it's kind of pointless to make a distinction.

So perhaps the real point isn't that the quotes contradict each other, but rather that they're just trite fluff that only partly applies to real life.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on May 11, 2007, 07:51:44 AM
Quote
I accept it. Now, if someone tells me that I can do it if I try, I could easily argue with them and tell them why I can't.
Why you can't, or why you won't?
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on May 11, 2007, 08:05:42 AM
If we're talking about me playing piano in a concert, I'm not sure it really matters. I won't because I can't.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on May 11, 2007, 08:22:08 AM
But not being a concert pianist -- while definitely a limitation -- is probably not one that affects your day-to-day life. And if it DID, because you really wanted to be able to play at that level, wouldn't you be more likely to improve your piano playing if you acknowledged your limited skill and worked on it, rather than either pretending than you were already at concert level or stating that you will never play any better, so why bother to practice? (Note that I am not saying that you would ever make it to concert pianist level. But you might well improve your skills, neh?)

The example I thought of yesterday, because it came up during my day: At work I frequently get told how organized I am. Which I think is hysterical, because I am one of the least organized people I know. However, I acknowledge that limitation, and compensate for it. I journal voicemails and phone calls in Outlook, because otherwise I would never remember who I spoke to or when. I use the task list for silly little things, because otherwise I will forget them too. (And if I am away from my desk when I am asked to do something, and forget by the time I get back, I better hope someone reminds me later!) I use tape flags and sticky notes like they're gonna save my soul. ;)

As opposed to my boss, who I think is innately actually less disorganized than I . . . but has a "this is who I am and everyone just has to deal with it" attitude. Both I and her secretary have tried to get her to use Outlook with little success, and it's not really a computer-literacy issue. Her limitations are part of how she defines herself, and she is stubbornly unwilling to change that.

My limitations certainly are part of what defines me, but I do my best to rise above them.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on May 11, 2007, 08:23:45 AM
Quote
So perhaps the real point isn't that the quotes contradict each other, but rather that they're just trite fluff that only partly applies to real life.
Oh, that I agree with. ;)
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: pooka on May 18, 2007, 07:47:09 AM
This is really immature of me, but this sentence always makes me laugh:
Quote
The Arbitrator, after hearing and consideration of this party’s briefs, if any are submitted, shall select the last written proposal of either party as the award, such award being issued within thirty (30) days after submission of briefs, if any, together with an opinion explaining the Arbitrator’s reasons for his selection.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: pooka on May 30, 2007, 07:32:57 AM
I wasn't sure where else to post this, but I read a summary of a decision that looking at porn on the internet is not by itself an offense worthy of termination for a long-standing employee with not other problems on his record, and whose internet use does not contribute to a hostile environment for other employees.  

I think it might be different if they caught him, counselled him, and then caught him again.  

I believe the finding also recognized a distinction between porn and sites that have racist or violent content.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: pooka on June 01, 2007, 10:50:33 AM
Oh man, the explaining the selection of the parties' briefs has been delorted.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: dkw on June 03, 2007, 06:10:10 PM
Gramatically, what is the difference between "shall" and "will"?  Because I recently heard a sermon that had a whole section making a big deal about the fact that King David used the word "will" rather than "shall" in the last verse of the 23rd psalm.  And, temporarily leaving aside the fact that the thing wasn't even written in english, I think he was blowing smoke about the distinction.  But I realized afterward that I'm not actually sure about that part.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on June 03, 2007, 07:08:16 PM
I was just reading that at one point, it was taught that the difference between will and shall was that one was more emphatic than the other.  But the weird thing is that their usages were reversed for first person, vs. second and third person.

I don't remember which is which though.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on June 04, 2007, 02:39:12 AM
I just checked two translations. One said "will" and one said "shall."  :D

In Hebrew, it's not even a separate word.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: pooka on June 04, 2007, 10:34:04 AM
*The Archbishop of Canterbury said that we should all sin from time to time. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shall_and_will)

The wiki article also explains what I believe Rivka is saying, which is that many languages inflect the verb themselves, rather than employing modals to express futurity etc.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on June 05, 2007, 08:45:05 AM
Grammatically speaking, they work the same way—they're both future modals. Semantically, there's a fair amount of overlap, but shall is sometimes used to express obligation or some sort of imperative (compare "thou shalt not steal" to "thou wilt not steal"). But because there's so much overlap in meaning, they're to some extent interchangeable. As you suspected and as Rivka confirmed, the supposed distinction is meaningless here because it doesn't go back to the original.

And as Porter said, it has sometimes been taught that the distinction is reversed for the first person and second/third persons. According to the Wikipedia article:
Quote
The most influential proponent of the distinction was John Wallis, whose 1653 Grammatica Linguae Anglicanae stated "The rule is... to express a future event without emotional overtones, one should say I shall, we shall, but you/he/she/they will; conversely, for emphasis, willfulness, or insistence, one should say I/we will, but you/he/she/they shall".
But this rule is completely baseless. It's not supported by etymology or by any historical usage.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: pooka on June 06, 2007, 09:58:04 AM
I'm just going to park this here to comment on later, it has to do with complementizers and X bar theory:
Quote
It does appear things began to deteriorate from the write-ups I read that were in her file. 
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on June 11, 2007, 03:09:55 PM
From a sample Personal Mission Statement™ in our planner backend section:
Quote
I want to use my healing talents to keep hope alive and express my vision courageously in word and action.   

In my family, I want to build healthy, loving relationships in which we can each become our best selves.
 
At work, I want to establish a fault-free, self-perpetuating learning environment.

In the world, I want to nurture the development of all life forms, in harmony with the laws of nature.
I was fine until I got to the last sentence. Well, the second-to-last one is weird, too, but the last one made me laugh. I don't even know where to begin.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on June 11, 2007, 03:12:39 PM
I want to nurture the development of flesh-eating bacteria.  Flesh-eating bacteria is perfectly natural as well.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on June 11, 2007, 03:14:27 PM
Quote
I want to nurture the development of flesh-eating bacteria.
Just so long as you don't violate the laws of nature (whatever those are), you have my blessing.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on June 11, 2007, 03:21:27 PM
Does your blessing involve the transmission of flesh-eating bacteria?
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on June 11, 2007, 03:22:38 PM
My blessing is a bunch of vague feel-good speech that you may interpret as you wish.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on June 11, 2007, 03:24:46 PM
I spit upon your verbiage.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on June 11, 2007, 06:11:31 PM
*cultures mph's spit*
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on June 12, 2007, 09:24:35 AM
Quote
Quote
I want to use my healing talents to keep hope alive and express my vision courageously in word and action.   

In my family, I want to build healthy, loving relationships in which we can each become our best selves.
 
At work, I want to establish a fault-free, self-perpetuating learning environment.

In the world, I want to nurture the development of all life forms, in harmony with the laws of nature.
I don't want any of those things.  I wouldn't mind a nice tuna sandwich, though.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on June 12, 2007, 09:29:35 AM
That's not very nurturing to the tuna, is it?
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: pooka on June 12, 2007, 11:40:48 AM
Quote
I want to use my healing talents to keep hope alive and express my vision courageously in word and action.

In my family, I want to build healthy, loving relationships in which we can each become our best selves.

At work, I want to establish a fault-free, self-perpetuating learning environment.

In the world, I want to nurture the development of all life forms, in harmony with the laws of nature.
It is reminiscent of something the Borg Queen would say.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on June 12, 2007, 12:00:29 PM
I don't think cybernetic implants are exactly in harmony with the laws of nature.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: pooka on June 12, 2007, 12:06:22 PM
But what if they improve quality of life for all creatures?
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on June 12, 2007, 12:12:18 PM
Then they should rewrite their mission statement to reflect the fact that they assimilate people into a collective and make them cybernetic drones.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on June 12, 2007, 03:13:20 PM
Quote
That's not very nurturing to the tuna, is it?
It is the tuna's mission in life to nourish ME!  You know, as part of the interconnectedness of all life forms, harmony, nature, nurturing.  Yadda yadda ya.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on June 12, 2007, 03:37:29 PM
Yeah, the circle of life sure is nice when you're up on top of it.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on June 12, 2007, 03:49:07 PM
Yup!
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on June 13, 2007, 02:10:07 AM
Quote
Quote
That's not very nurturing to the tuna, is it?
It is the tuna's mission in life to nourish ME!  You know, as part of the interconnectedness of all life forms, harmony, nature, nurturing.  Yadda yadda ya.
You forgot about the sparks of holiness eating the tuna raises.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on June 13, 2007, 06:57:37 AM
Holy Mackerel!
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: dkw on June 25, 2007, 08:06:48 AM
Quote
Grammatically speaking, they work the same way—they're both future modals. Semantically, there's a fair amount of overlap, but shall is sometimes used to express obligation or some sort of imperative (compare "thou shalt not steal" to "thou wilt not steal"). But because there's so much overlap in meaning, they're to some extent interchangeable. As you suspected and as Rivka confirmed, the supposed distinction is meaningless here because it doesn't go back to the original.

And as Porter said, it has sometimes been taught that the distinction is reversed for the first person and second/third persons. According to the Wikipedia article:
Quote
The most influential proponent of the distinction was John Wallis, whose 1653 Grammatica Linguae Anglicanae stated "The rule is... to express a future event without emotional overtones, one should say I shall, we shall, but you/he/she/they will; conversely, for emphasis, willfulness, or insistence, one should say I/we will, but you/he/she/they shall".
But this rule is completely baseless. It's not supported by etymology or by any historical usage.
Would it be fair to say that if someone claimed that "I will" is declarative and "I shall" is permissive that that someone has no clue what he is talking about?

(I know that "I may" would actually be the permissive, but is declarative vs permissive even a dichotomy, or are they in two different categories altogether?)

While I am slightly curious about the parenthetical, the first question is mostly rhetorical and venting.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on June 25, 2007, 09:32:08 AM
I've never heard someone use the term "permissive" as if it were some sort of grammatical or semantic category, and I don't think I've heard "declarative" used since elementary school. In English the usual term for a statement with ordinary modality is "indicative." So I would say the answer to your first question is yes.

And even if "declarative" and "permissive" were some sort of dichotomy, there isn't a clear dichotomy between "shall" and "will." There's an awful lot of overlap, and "shall" has at least a few separate but related senses that can't all be captured by one label.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: pooka on June 25, 2007, 09:48:57 AM
Is it better in that sense to respond to someone with "Let me check with my friend who is a linguist." or to go them one better by BSing about how that used to be the case, but [insert linguistic technobabble] to the effect that [random mutisyllabic word] + ive = pWn3D!!!!

 
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: dkw on June 25, 2007, 02:25:38 PM
Good question.  I can't decide if I should let this slide or try to tactfully let the guy know.   If anyone listening knows grammatical terminology it's making him look bad, but what are the chances that anyone does?  Or that they care?

It's a spinich in your teeth situation -- would you rather know, or not?
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on June 25, 2007, 02:29:47 PM
It could always be worse, I suppose; he could have said something like "faith is a verb."

Personally, I'd rather have someone tell me that I was making a fool of myself and spreading nonsense. Not everyone is of that mindset, though.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on June 25, 2007, 04:33:43 PM
"faith is a verb." -- Jon Boy

I'm just looking for things to take out of context, ain't I?  

This one isn't as funny as my sig, though.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on June 25, 2007, 04:39:20 PM
Unless you're not above spurious and misleading editing in your quotations, you really should have a set of single quotes inside the double quotes, like this: "'faith is a verb.'" :pirate:  
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on June 25, 2007, 06:40:18 PM
Well, misleading editing was pretty much the point, but if I put in the single quotes, I can claim that it's not misleading at all, since the punctuation explicitly says that you were quoting something. Thanks!
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: pooka on June 26, 2007, 05:45:04 AM
Spinach in teeth could happen to anyone.  Flaunting of ignorance... well, it probably does happen to everyone, but I think "he who is convinced against his will..." applies.  What was the context?  Did he make this pronouncement to a group of people?  

Basically, if one wants to become the type of person to go about correcting people's mistaken notions about grammar, it's probably a good idea to have a book or two that you are then willing to stick to in the future where you can show people.  I happen to have a whole shelf where I could go and look stuff up depending on what the desired outcome of the conversation is.   :devil:   I'm just sayin'.  It's a rare argument that can be won with "Language is an organism; words are neither good nor bad, they simply exist."

Boy that last phrase was hard to put.  Also, I've never had to open a book with someone.  In general, the knowledge that I could results in people not questioning me much.  It's weird, because we question each other a lot here, because we're mostly languagey types, and hyperliteral ones at that.  In normal life, people find me scary.

Part of what I love about my job is that my boss is very literate, and I know that he values my skills.  I just realized that.  
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on June 26, 2007, 07:18:49 AM
Quote
Basically, if one wants to become the type of person to go about correcting people's mistaken notions about grammar, it's probably a good idea to have a book or two that you are then willing to stick to in the future where you can show people.
I disagree.  Case in point, the current case.  I knew that at one point, shall/will was taught to have different levels of emphasis, and that they were reversed for first person.  I had no problems sharing that notion even though I have no book which says that, and I couldn't give any references.  If somebody had challenged the veracity of what I said, all I could have done is shrugged and said "I know I've read it somewhere", which I have.

Lucky, Jonathon had my six, so that wasn't a problem.

*high five*
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on June 26, 2007, 07:52:36 AM
*dons appropriate protection first*

*high five*
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: pooka on June 26, 2007, 09:54:30 AM
"Had my six"?
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on June 26, 2007, 10:01:06 AM
Had my back.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on June 26, 2007, 12:39:21 PM
He had your back?  And that was lucky?

Huh.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on June 26, 2007, 12:46:34 PM
Lucky for me.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on July 17, 2007, 01:05:12 PM
"I didn't say that I didn't say it. I said that I didn't say that I said it. I want to make that very clear." —George Romney

I'm assuming this is Mitt Romney's father. Of course, the quote is attributed but unverified, so take it for what it's worth.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Farmgirl on July 24, 2007, 11:50:35 AM
You know how sometimes you walk into a conference room and some people are already there and chit-chatting waiting for everyone else to show up?

Sometimes that makes it so people come in during the middle of a conversation and miss the context of what is being discussed..

so it was yesterday here at my work when we walked into the conference room and two men from our department, who were already seated in there talking about the TENNIS game they had played against each other the night before. However, we had no idea they were talking about tennis. This was all we heard:

B:  "so, are you still sore from last night?"
J: "yeah, it really made my butt hurt, for some reason"
B: "so, then, not tonight? Or do you feel up to it?"

Everyone else just kinda stopped and stared for a minute then burst out laughing.  They still didn't understand what people thought was so funny until someone explained how that sounded.  And they quickly explained they had met for TENNIS the night before (how that made J's butt hurt, I still don't know).

ROFL
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on July 24, 2007, 12:02:14 PM
My sister tells a hysterical story of being overheard out of context at work.  She was in her cubicle, where everyone can pretty much overhear everyone else's phone conversations, and talking to the Ford dealership about renting a car for the weekend.

"I'd like to arrange for an Escort, picking up tonight after work."

"Well, I'm going to a friend's wedding in Delaware, so I might need it until Sunday night, or, depending on how I'm doing, Monday morning."

"No, I don't care about the color.  I'm not picky."

By the time she had finished the call, the rumor was out and flying through the office.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on July 24, 2007, 02:06:18 PM
*snort*
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on July 24, 2007, 03:51:58 PM
Hey, true story!
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: pooka on July 24, 2007, 06:37:40 PM
My brother refused to call the car he sold me an "Escort".
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Farmgirl on August 02, 2007, 02:11:33 PM
Ha -- Just came from a meeting that included members of our Legal staff department.

The legal guy used, during the conversation This Word (http://www.webster.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?sourceid=Mozilla-search&va=panoply), and we questioned what it was (because none of us had heard the word before).

But he said it wrong -- he said it like the word "Monopoly" except starting with "Pan" -- so basically gave it an extra syllable.   He was using it in the definition of "a magnificent or impressive array", but basically he was meaning "encompassing everything - the whole universe" kinda thinking.

So we all (including him) went back and looked up the word after the meeting. And he realized he had been spelling and using it a bit incorrectly.

 :D  
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: pooka on August 13, 2007, 06:04:08 AM
Somehow "convenience store" became "connivance store."  I bet someone put an a in the end of convenience and Word fixed it for them.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: pooka on August 24, 2007, 07:01:09 AM
We were discussing "Shall" and "Will" back on page 6, and I ran across this in a brief today:
Quote
The legal dictionary defines the term “shall”:  “As used in statutes, contracts, or the like, this word is generally imperative or mandatory.”  Black’s Law Dictionary, 1541, Henry C. Black, 4th ed. (West 1951).
So it's peculiar to legal jargon.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: pooka on September 02, 2007, 07:06:59 PM
This isn't really work, but I was checking some ASL because of my sister's blog:

Quote

    I let you know your lesson is H and Hanukah is wrong spells and Its
    actual is meaning : Hanukkah

    Bye, I enjoy checking to your site is the best sign langauge.

Dear Ecdrury,
According to dictionary.com there are three accepted spellings:
"Hanukkah or Hanukah also Chanukah."
But now I have a vote from you for the longer spelling.
Thanks for sharing your comment.
Cordially,
Dr. Bill
p.s. By the way, "langauge" is actually spelled, "language."  (Grin.)
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on November 27, 2007, 12:37:04 PM
Taken from an e-mail from the facilities help desk:
Quote
Objective: To provide above and beyond customer service to all FranklinCovey associates and tenants. To create a positive, proactive working relationship that will
“Deliver Case-Worthy Customer Results”
That's exactly how it appeared, including the colors and the randomly quoted and title-capped bit on the next line.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: pooka on November 27, 2007, 12:58:32 PM
I'm imagining that being read aloud in StrongBad's "Monster Truck Rally Announcer" voice.  
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on November 28, 2007, 02:47:08 PM
Sunday! Sunday! Someday!


Speaking of quotes from work, right now I'm editing a database of quotes for an upcoming line of planners. I came across a quote from Aristotle that looked severely underpunctuated. I'd seen the same quote before with different punctuation, so I decided to look it up to see if I could find a real source (and yes, I realize full well that Aristotle himself probably used no punctuation at all—still, I assumed there was a somewhat authoritative translation I could rely on).

In searching for a source, I quickly came across this (http://lists.village.virginia.edu/lists_archive/Humanist/v19/0541.html). Surprise—the quote isn't from Aristotle at all. It's from a guy who was writing about Aristotle's Ethics. I suspect that if we really dug for sources, we'd find that an appallingly large number of our quotes are spurious. Our sources consist of compilations of quotes, and of the couple dozen or so books in my office, I think there is only one that actually gives references. All the rest are, in my opinion, completely untrustworthy. But what can I do?

*sigh*
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: pooka on November 29, 2007, 09:16:35 AM
I've heard of Wil Durant.  He's kind of famous.  Why not just ascribe the quote to him?
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on November 29, 2007, 09:24:14 AM
I will. The problem isn't that I don't know who to assign the quote to, but that our sources are so unreliable. Sometimes I feel like we'd be almost as well off trawling random MySpace pages for quotes.

I find the problem of incorrect attribution interesting. The last couple times I've driven past Thanksgiving Point in Lehi, their sign has included a few cheesy motivational quotes; one is attributed to "anonymous," one to "source unknown," and the third to "bumper sticker." Seriously. Of course, those all effectively mean the same thing: "We don't know who said it and we can't be bothered to find out."
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on November 29, 2007, 09:27:02 AM
In a situation such as that (Thanksgiving Point), I'm not sure it's so bad that they don't know who said it and can't be bothered to find out.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on November 29, 2007, 09:28:36 AM
*shrug* I still think it makes them look lazy. And quoting a bumper sticker just looks stupid.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on November 29, 2007, 01:23:49 PM
Ages ago, there was an episode of "The Odd Couple" where Felix enrolled in a writing class that guaranteed that by the end of the class you would be a published author.  Lands up, most of the publication was on bumper stickers.

I just love the idea of a writing class for bumper sticker writers.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Amilia on December 05, 2007, 05:43:30 PM
I am currently working in the office of an art glass studio.  My boss asked me to proof a bio of one of our artists.  I like to think that I am OK at this sort of thing, but I generally just go by what sounds/feels right.  So I would like to ask those of you linguists here, who really do know what you are doing, if I missed anything glaring.  Did I add in too many commas?  Do I need to cut the second "key artist?"

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Treavor Holdman is an artist with a passion for glass.  He grew up in a family of artists and teamed up with his brother Tom to become part of Holdman Studios at the age of 15.  Since then Treavor has been one of the key artists for many large art glass installations.  Several of the pieces he has been heavily involved with as a key artist have priced at over a half million.  His work is literally seen by thousands everyday in many public spaces including churches, universities, and city centers all over the globe.  Treavor has the unique ability to let the glass sing the song it was destined to sing.  In his own words, "I let the glass speak for itself.  As the fire and flame take hold of it, I feel what direction the glass would like to go to shine, and I take it on that journey.  Then, in the end, the glass will do a much better job of taking your breath away then I ever could."  Treavor has truly found his life's journey and invites us all to come along.

Thanks.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on December 05, 2007, 05:56:29 PM
The punctuation looks fine to me. I think I would cut "as a key artist"—it sounds repetitious, and I don't think it's really necessary. Also, you should only use one space between sentences.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: theCrowsWife on December 06, 2007, 06:00:23 AM
I would dump the "literally." If it absolutely must stay, move it so that the sentence reads, "His work is seen by literally thousands everyday." The number is what is literal, not the act of seeing.

Otherwise, what Jonathon said and it'll look good.

--Mel
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Amilia on December 06, 2007, 07:47:50 AM
Lovely!  Thank you.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on December 06, 2007, 07:49:56 AM
The act of seeing is literal too.  :P

And I think anyone reading it would take "literally" to have wide scope over the clause, so I don't think anyone is going to have trouble understanding it. Such is the beauty of adverbs.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Neutros the Radioactive Dragon on December 06, 2007, 08:00:15 AM
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The punctuation looks fine to me. I think I would cut "as a key artist"—it sounds repetitious, and I don't think it's really necessary. Also, you should only use one space between sentences.
As a typist who learned, very, very long ago, to put two spaces after the end of a sentence, I still have a hard time just using one space.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on December 06, 2007, 08:01:29 AM
I still use two spaces.  And I don't feel bad about it. :P
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on December 06, 2007, 08:09:29 AM
I think I broke the habit in only a few weeks. *shrug*

But even if it's impossible for you to stop typing that way, they should be removed before the text is typeset and printed.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: theCrowsWife on December 06, 2007, 03:45:19 PM
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The act of seeing is literal too.  :P

And I think anyone reading it would take "literally" to have wide scope over the clause, so I don't think anyone is going to have trouble understanding it. Such is the beauty of adverbs.
I didn't say it was incorrect or that people would misunderstand it, I said I would remove it. It doesn't sound professional to me at all.

Besides, adverbs are often a sign of lazy writing.  :P

--Mel
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on December 06, 2007, 03:48:01 PM
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Besides, adverbs are often a sign of lazy writing.  :P
 :blink:

Really? Why in the world do you think that?
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Neutros the Radioactive Dragon on December 06, 2007, 04:22:17 PM
Using words is the sign of lazy writing.

Just try and say something without them.  It's really tough.

*gesticulates madly*

See what I mean?
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on December 06, 2007, 06:38:07 PM
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I think I broke the habit in only a few weeks.
Ditto.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Noemon on December 07, 2007, 06:14:55 AM
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The act of seeing is literal too.  :P

 
Not for the blind!
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: theCrowsWife on December 07, 2007, 07:04:44 AM
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Besides, adverbs are often a sign of lazy writing.  :P
:blink:

Really? Why in the world do you think that?
In fiction. Adverbs are often used with weak verbs, when often there is an actual verb that means the same thing as the verb-adverb pair. Or they're used paired with the word "said" as a way to state how a character is feeling, when that should have been established in other ways (behavior, thoughts if we're in that character's POV, prior history, etc).

Adverbs are easy ways to add detail, which means that they tend to get overused in fiction. Many writers (especially beginners) will improve their prose if they get rid of as many of them as they can, as long as they don't go to ridiculous lengths to avoid them. Sometimes an adverb really is the best choice, but it's a lot less frequently than many people believe.

--Mel
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on December 07, 2007, 08:04:40 AM
I think the problem there is unclarity and overuse, not the adverbs themselves. Just because something is overused by bad writers doesn't mean it's always (or even often) a bad thing for good writers. I'd also say that just because it might help a novice writer to get rid of them doesn't mean it's a good idea for everyone to do the same.

And, of course, here's a relevant Language Log link (http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/%7Emyl/languagelog/archives/003721.html) that says it all better than I could.

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There are techniques that could be effective.  A piano student who's inclined to overuse the sustain pedal -- it can cover a lot of finger sins -- might be told to play some pieces without the sustain pedal, either a few times or for some period, after which the sustain pedal is reintroduced.  Similarly a sports player who's inclined to favor one particular move very heavily might be told not to use it, either for one practice or for some period, after which the ban is lifted.  The aim is to expand a repertoire.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: theCrowsWife on December 07, 2007, 09:00:44 AM
Yes, that would be why I said that adverbs are often a sign of lazy writing, not that they always are. I also said that "Sometimes an adverb really is the best choice, but it's a lot less frequently than many people believe."

Unclarity and overuse. I don't see where we are actually disagreeing here.

I would still remove "literally" from the posted bio, though. It sounds very unprofessional to me.

--Mel
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on December 07, 2007, 09:07:18 AM
I disagree that adverbs are often a sign of lazy writing. I think that's far too broad a statement.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: theCrowsWife on December 07, 2007, 10:58:48 AM
Even with the caveat that I'm speaking of fiction writing?

--Mel
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on December 07, 2007, 11:07:10 AM
Can you point me to any fiction that doesn't use adverbs?

If all fiction uses adverbs, than the presence of adverbs in fiction isn't a sign of anything.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on December 07, 2007, 11:55:09 AM
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Even with the caveat that I'm speaking of fiction writing?

--Mel
I don't see why fiction writing is that special or different.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: theCrowsWife on December 07, 2007, 01:20:45 PM
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Can you point me to any fiction that doesn't use adverbs?

If all fiction uses adverbs, than the presence of adverbs in fiction isn't a sign of anything.
That's false logic. An irregularly shaped mole can be a sign of skin cancer, but pointing at cancer-free patients who have a lot of moles and saying that therefore moles are meaningless for predicting cancer is pretty ludicrous.

Now granted, in my first statement, I was being a bit flip (hence the sticking-out-of-tongue). However, I did clarify several times that I was referring to excessive usage, and I never stated that ever using an adverb was wrong. They just tend to be used as shortcuts by writers. (And I'm not saying that shortcuts are always bad either; everything has a time and a place.)

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I don't see why fiction writing is that special or different.

Not special, but different, in that every form of writing has different rules and guidelines. They all have different purposes and audiences, after all. If I pick up a user manual, I expect the information I need to be easy to find and understand, and thorough enough to answer my question. When I pick up a novel, I expect to be immersed in an interesting story with interesting characters.

I could list off quite a few "rules" for fiction writing that, if followed, will generally improve a writer's prose. That's not to say that someone who thoroughly understands the rules and why they exist can't break them; on the contrary, judiciously breaking the rules is often necessary in great writing. However, the new writer who breaks them out of ignorance usually will find that their prose is better if the rules are followed.

--Mel
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on December 07, 2007, 01:26:09 PM
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That's false logic. An irregularly shaped mole can be a sign of skin cancer, but pointing at cancer-free patients who have a lot of moles and saying that therefore moles are meaningless for predicting cancer is pretty ludicrous.
If all humans had moles, then the existence of moles on an individual would not be a sign of anything.



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Now granted, in my first statement, I was being a bit flip (hence the sticking-out-of-tongue). However, I did clarify several times that I was referring to excessive usage, and I never stated that ever using an adverb was wrong.
OK.  If you throw in the word "excessive", then it's a totally different situation.  Just like irregularly-shaped moles could be useful for predicting cancer while the mer presence of moles wouldn't be, excessive adverbs can be a sign of poor writing while adverbs in general aren't.

Of course, it's practically a tautology that excessive anything is bad.

edit:  I removed where I said it was a false analogy.  'Cuz it's not.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on December 07, 2007, 01:33:09 PM
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That's false logic. An irregularly shaped mole can be a sign of skin cancer, but pointing at cancer-free patients who have a lot of moles and saying that therefore moles are meaningless for predicting cancer is pretty ludicrous.
Your original statement sounds to me like saying that since some moles are cancerous, moles in general are often a sign of cancer.

Again, I disagree with the notion that adverbs in general tend to be shortcuts. Adverbs as a part of speech are a much broader and more essential category than most people realize, I think.

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I could list off quite a few "rules" for fiction writing that, if followed, will generally improve a writer's prose.
I'd be interested in what other rules you'd list, if you don't mind.

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That's not to say that someone who thoroughly understands the rules and why they exist can't break them; on the contrary, judiciously breaking the rules is often necessary in great writing. However, the new writer who breaks them out of ignorance usually will find that their prose is better if the rules are followed.
I honestly have a hard time wrapping my head around that. If "breaking" the rule can be a good thing, then doesn't that mean that maybe there's a problem with the rule? Like, shouldn't they perhaps be "rules for novice writers" rather than "rules for all writers, though you can break the rules once you've learned them well enough"? That seems to me like saying that as a rule everyone should have training wheels on their bikes, but you can break the rule and take them off if you're good enough.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on December 07, 2007, 01:34:37 PM
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OK.  If you throw in the word "excessive", then it's a totally different situation.  Just like irregularly-shaped moles could be useful for predicting cancer while the mer presence of moles wouldn't be, excessive adverbs can be a sign of poor writing while adverbs in general aren't.

Of course, it's practically a tautology that excessive anything is bad.
Exactly. But I get the feeling that CrowsWife and I have very different ideas about what constitutes excess in this situation, and I think that's the key.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on December 07, 2007, 01:36:14 PM
I completely agree with Crow about breaking rules.  In the martial arts, we used to say that the better you understand a rule, the more you're allowed to break it.

Of course, that's because it's not really a rule -- it's an aid to teach a principle.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Brinestone on December 07, 2007, 02:14:23 PM
I have to step in here because I've read a lot of amateur fiction writing, and I've been in several fiction writing groups, and there's a lot of truth to her assertion that beginning writers often overuse -ly adverbs. It's true that excessive anything is a mark of bad writing---I'm recalling one em-dash-heavy story we published at Leading Edge here---but it's also true that amateur fiction writers tend to love adverbs. It might be because their English teachers called their writing "descriptive" when they did it in grade school, and they definitely want to be descriptive while writing fiction.

I've seen this over and over and over again. Flat characters, terrible dialog, and plots that resemble a favorite novel or TV show are also common characteristics of new writers. For some reason, a lot of the adverbs they use show up in dialog tags (as Crow said). It gets really annoying.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: theCrowsWife on December 07, 2007, 03:27:52 PM
Jonathon, what you're saying about adverbs not being a predictor of poor quality writing probably is true in the abstract. But, like Brinestone, I have read and critiqued a lot of amateur writing in the last few years (I'll add here that I consider myself to still be an amateur, although a more knowledgeable one than a few years ago). In actual practice, over-use of adverbs (specifically -ly ones, as Brinestone noted) is so common amongst beginning writers that it is actually a predictor.

Back to the mole analogy, if you just thought that a mole was a mole,  you wouldn't be able to predict cancer by examining them. However, if you've learned through experience or training that some kinds of moles are usually bad news, they become much more useful. So, someone who has had the experience of reading and critiquing lots of amateur fiction will spot the "bad" adverbs much more easily than someone who doesn't have that experience. That person would also be more likely to scrutinize all adverbs for signs of badness.

Some other fiction writing rules (off the top of my head, based on things I see frequently). These are all things that can be broken if it is absolutely necessary for the story, but there are always consequences. If a writer is skilled enough to handle it, they'll do what they can to minimize the consequences. With luck, only someone trained in the rules will notice, and then only to say, "Hey, look at how this guy broke this rule! And it totally works in this story!"

-Show, don't tell. Personally, I believe that the rule is more correctly stated as "Show what is important and interesting, tell what is important and less interesting, and skip anything that is both unimportant and uninteresting." Example of this rule taken to the extreme: Robert Jordan. However, a lot of new writers do need to learn to write actual scenes instead of just stating what happens, or to show a character being angry rather than saying that he is, etc.

-If you're writing in limited omniscience POV, you can't tell us what non-POV characters are thinking.

-If you're writing in limited omniscience POV, you can't tell us anything that the POV character doesn't know.

-Just use "said," not "remarked, whispered, shouted, etc." Occasional use is fine, but if at all possible, include that information in other ways, like through the actions and thoughts of the character. This goes back to the "show, don't tell" rule.

-Don't hide information that the POV character knows that is important to the story. ESPECIALLY don't taunt the reader by having the character think about the information, but not actually share it. Writers think that hiding information increases suspense, but it really just increases frustration. In some genres this has become so entrenched that it's actually accepted as part of the way you write stories for that genre, but definitely don't use it outside of that genre (it seems like a lot of mystery stories are written this way, although I haven't kept up with the mystery genre so things may have changed). The exception to this is if you have an unreliable narrator, but those can be tricky to handle well.

There are plenty more, but those are broken so frequently that they tend to stay at the top of my mind.

--Mel
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on December 07, 2007, 04:10:08 PM
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If you're writing in limited omniscience POV, you can't tell us what non-POV characters are thinking.
Bujold cheats with this one.  Her characters are able to more information that seems humanly possible from a glance or a nod.

"With a turn of her hand, she indicated that she partially agreed with him, but had reservations on account of the possible economic ramifications, and that they should form a 12-member committee to examine the matter more fully."

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Don't hide information that the POV character knows that is important to the story. ESPECIALLY don't taunt the reader by having the character think about the information, but not actually share it.
Few writing tricks are liable to piss me off like this one.  I don't see it that much in books, but it's quite frequent on the screen.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on December 08, 2007, 04:45:47 PM
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Jonathon, what you're saying about adverbs not being a predictor of poor quality writing probably is true in the abstract. But, like Brinestone, I have read and critiqued a lot of amateur writing in the last few years (I'll add here that I consider myself to still be an amateur, although a more knowledgeable one than a few years ago). In actual practice, over-use of adverbs (specifically -ly ones, as Brinestone noted) is so common amongst beginning writers that it is actually a predictor.
I've read my fair share of amateur writing too (and written some). Yes, I know the problem exists, but I still think "adverbs are often a sign of lazy writing" to be a gross overstatement. I'd be surprised if there's really much of difference between good adverb use and bad adverb use, statistically speaking.

Actually, it might be an interesting project to count the number of adverbs in a piece of bad writing and in a comparable piece of good writing. If anyone wants to take a crack at it, that'd be awesome. Or maybe I'll do it myself when I've got time.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on December 08, 2007, 04:58:21 PM
My favorite peeve about amateur writing is the part where the character stops in front of a mirror and then the reader gets to see what he looks like.  I just wait for this bit.

"John caught a glimpse of himself in the mirror.  His raven black hair fell to shoulder length, framing his angular face.  His ice blue eyes looked back at him piercingly, and a shudder went through him as he was struck by their power.  His long thin nose twitched, alluringly, as he licked his full, yet masculine, lips.  He smiled at his reflection, revealing pointy canine teeth."
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Neutros the Radioactive Dragon on December 10, 2007, 08:52:00 AM
I've seen some really good amatuer writing, and some really bad professional writing as well.

Although a professional would have to convince someone that the piece is good enough to get paid for, I don't see much other correlation between good and bad writing based on vocation.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: dkw on December 28, 2007, 08:24:13 AM
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Could you please respond back to me “today”, and let me know . . .

 >.<  
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on December 28, 2007, 09:03:23 AM
YES! YES! A THOUSAND TIMES YES!

That one is even worse than the grocer's apostrophe, and y'all probably know how I feel about that. ;)

Using quotes for emphasis kills no kittens. However, I devoutly believe that you lose a day of your life for each offense. (And there is someone on Hatrack who is working on their third year's worth of days. :P)
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on December 28, 2007, 09:08:11 AM
Also forbidden: using quotes for slogans (like the billboard around here that says "Lowbook Sales 'Buys Cars'") and using quotes for everything that sounds slangy or even remotely casual.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on December 28, 2007, 09:08:35 AM
Absotively.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Neutros the Radioactive Dragon on December 28, 2007, 09:20:59 AM
Posilutley.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on December 28, 2007, 10:08:31 AM
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And there is "someone" on Hatrack who is working on their third year's worth of days.
Rivka, sometimes you just "crack" me the "heck" up.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on December 28, 2007, 10:09:35 AM
Tante, please "knock it off."
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on December 28, 2007, 10:14:04 AM
:peek:  
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on December 28, 2007, 11:37:56 AM
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Tante, please "knock it off."
"pouts"
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on January 09, 2008, 02:11:20 AM
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Using quotes for emphasis kills no kittens. However, I devoutly believe that you lose a day of your life for each offense. (And there is someone on Hatrack who is working on their third year's worth of days. :P)
Make that fourth.

>.<
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: dkw on January 28, 2008, 11:57:37 AM
Should it be "The staff are doing xyz" or "The staff is doing xyz"?  

I vote for "are," since "staff" in this case seems to be short for "the members of the staff."  
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on January 28, 2008, 11:59:46 AM
Either one works.

I believe we had a discussion about "This couple is" vs. "This couple are" around a year ago.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on January 28, 2008, 12:05:15 PM
I prefer "are" there, too. The notion of plurality seems more significant than the notion of the staff members' unity.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on January 28, 2008, 01:06:18 PM
Unless the staff is planning to go out on strike.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: goofy on January 29, 2008, 06:11:00 PM
I think quotes on signs make a lot of sense... they're used for emphasizing a word where no other method of emphasis exists.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on January 29, 2008, 06:11:59 PM
Except for bolding, italicizing, underlining, color, font...
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: goofy on January 29, 2008, 08:54:10 PM
Often those things aren't available or are hard to use. McWhorter (http://www.nysun.com/article/61711) calls it an "underground alternative punctuation."
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on January 29, 2008, 09:07:21 PM
capitalization...
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on January 30, 2008, 12:23:41 AM
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I think quotes on signs make a lot of sense... they're used for emphasizing a word where no other method of emphasis exists.
They could use an apostrophe-ess.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on January 30, 2008, 08:18:37 AM
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Often those things aren't available or are hard to use. McWhorter (http://www.nysun.com/article/61711) calls it an "underground alternative punctuation."
Really? I can't imagine why any of those things would be unavailable on billboards or other signs. If they can typeset a regular font they can just as easily do bold or italics at the very least.

Also, though I like McWhorter, I don't really find the analogy of quotes for emphasis and "impact" as a verb compelling at all. One is a shift from one part of speech to another, which really throws some people, and the other is a misuse of punctuation marks, which are by nature artificial and thus, in my opinion, more easily subject to arbitrary rules.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: goofy on January 30, 2008, 09:10:48 AM
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Really? I can't imagine why any of those things would be unavailable on billboards or other signs. If they can typeset a regular font they can just as easily do bold or italics at the very least.

I was thinking of those signs with the premade letters you have to slot in, but yes.

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Also, though I like McWhorter, I don't really find the analogy of quotes for emphasis and "impact" as a verb compelling at all. One is a shift from one part of speech to another, which really throws some people, and the other is a misuse of punctuation marks, which are by nature artificial and thus, in my opinion, more easily subject to arbitrary rules.

That sounds reasonable, except that quotation marks seem to be just as mutable as other features of language, judging by all these signs where they're used for emphasis.

Quotation marks are a relatively recent invention, they're very rare before the 19th century. They are used for highlighting in standard English (scare quotes), so an extension to using them as emphasis is not surprising. I know you guys don't like them. Please go on not liking them. I'm just saying.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on January 30, 2008, 09:32:19 AM
Ah. I wasn't thinking of those sorts of signs. I could see using quotes for emphasis there if it was really necessary and that was the only option.

And I do agree that quotation marks, like everything else, is mutable, regardless of its origin. Punctuation has changed quite a bit in the last couple centuries, and we think of this as an improvement.

I can see why people think they need quotes for emphasis or for whole slogans. I just don't think they really do, because sometimes it causes unintentional alternate readings, and sometimes it's just visually distracting. I think that in general, the average layperson overestimates the amount of visual emphasis or adornment they need to apply to text.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Sheila on January 31, 2008, 11:57:40 AM
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Sometimes the keeper of the vision gets in the way of progress

I really wish I could provide the context for that.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on January 31, 2008, 01:36:55 PM
You work in an office where they do laser vision correction surgery?
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: goofy on January 31, 2008, 06:56:40 PM
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I can see why people think they need quotes for emphasis or for whole slogans. I just don't think they really do, because sometimes it causes unintentional alternate readings, and sometimes it's just visually distracting. I think that in general, the average layperson overestimates the amount of visual emphasis or adornment they need to apply to text.
I'd agree with that. I still like them tho.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on January 31, 2008, 07:26:41 PM
Fair enough.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: weezer on January 31, 2008, 07:53:45 PM
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Really? I can't imagine why any of those things would be unavailable on billboards or other signs. If they can typeset a regular font they can just as easily do bold or italics at the very least.

I was thinking of those signs with the premade letters you have to slot in, but yes.
 
Marquees? There are red letters available for these signs. I find that a red word stands out more than a word with quotation marks around it.  
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on February 01, 2008, 11:44:04 AM
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Quote
I can see why people think they need quotes for emphasis or for whole slogans. I just don't think they really do, because sometimes it causes unintentional alternate readings, and sometimes it's just visually distracting. I think that in general, the average layperson overestimates the amount of visual emphasis or adornment they need to apply to text.
I'd agree with that. I still like them tho.
Bah!  You're both nutty descriptivists!
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: goofy on February 01, 2008, 01:14:32 PM
And it feels good. Join us!
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on February 01, 2008, 01:34:43 PM
I'll think about it.

Where do you fall on the "lands up" vs. "winds up" or "ends up" controversy?
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: goofy on February 01, 2008, 02:00:27 PM
There's so many usage controversies I can't keep track of them all. Which one is this exactly?
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on February 01, 2008, 02:06:26 PM
All I know is that Tante says "lands up," and some people have given her a hard time about it. I use both "ends up" and "winds up" fairly interchangeably and am not very familiar with "lands up." I suspect it's a regional thing, but that's just a guess. I don't recall ever hearing about it or seeing it in a usage manual before.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: goofy on February 01, 2008, 02:36:43 PM
I suspect it's regional as well. I don't know if I've heard it before. There's nothing about it on the ADS (http://www.americandialect.org/).
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on February 01, 2008, 04:16:24 PM
It is definitely regional. I know other people who say it, but IIRC they are all from the area near Tante.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on February 02, 2008, 03:48:50 PM
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It is definitely regional. I know other people who say it, but they land up being from the area near Tante.
I'm campaigning to expand the region.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on February 03, 2008, 09:34:26 AM
I would appreciate it if you'd stop editing my words.  
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on February 03, 2008, 10:17:38 AM
OK.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on February 05, 2008, 11:16:28 AM
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The dream begins with a teacher who believes in you, who tugs and pushes and leads you to the next plateau, sometimes poking you with a sharp stick called “truth.”
—Dan Rather
I wonder if he said this before or after Rathergate. I'm guessing before.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Sheila on February 15, 2008, 11:57:27 AM
This quote is the only note I took during an hour long meeting today:

Quote
If you're in a cave and you have a candle and someone comes along with a flashlight, you think you're in tall cotton.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on February 15, 2008, 12:04:32 PM
I'm guessing that "you'll think you're in tall cotton" is some sort of Southern saying?
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Sheila on February 15, 2008, 12:13:45 PM
is it?  o_O


edit: does that mean the cave part makes sense to you? o_O  
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on February 15, 2008, 12:25:03 PM
I'm just guessing. My take is something like "If you're in a cave and you have a candle [meaning you can't see very well] and someone comes along with a flashlight [so now you can see much better], you think you're in tall cotton [in hog heaven? something like that]." I don't know what it means out of context, and I've never heard "in tall cotton" before.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Brinestone on February 15, 2008, 12:25:32 PM
I'm guessing being in tall cotton is good. Which means that you'll be extremely glad that someone came along with a flashlight to help you through the cave. I'm not sure why the heck it was said.

(I have a pretty good idea of what sort of person would say such a thing, though. ;))
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Sheila on February 15, 2008, 12:29:30 PM
He consistently uses metaphors that are either nonsensical ones like this or are potentially offensive ones like, "it's time for us all to open up our kimonos and let us all see what we have." I think writing them down is the only way I'm going to be able to continue attending meetings with him. I very nearly burst into laughter at today's.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Noemon on February 15, 2008, 12:30:25 PM
A coworker of mine announced once that he was "happy as a pig in tall cotton" once.  Of course, he's pretty much the Malapropism King of SW Ohio, and he loves to do cliche mashups.  "In tall cotton" basically = "really favorable circumstance", and he was combining that with "happier than a pig in [word that would be much more apporpriate at sakeriver]".

Another of his more memorable utterances was "that's the greatest thing since Jesus invented bread!"
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Sheila on February 15, 2008, 12:37:17 PM
Oh my, he actually said "happier than a pig in [word that would be much more apporpriate at sakeriver]" today.  :angst:  
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on February 17, 2008, 04:17:52 AM
Quote
Another of his more memorable utterances was "that's the greatest thing since Jesus invented bread!"
I'm guessing that before that loaves and fishes trick, it was all matzah, all the time.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on February 17, 2008, 10:34:35 AM
Probably. Except it was presumably Yemenite-style matzah, which is more like pita.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on February 27, 2008, 02:12:21 PM
I don't think I've posted this one before:
Quote
The truly great general views reverses calmly and coolly.
That's three words in a row that could be interpreted as multiple parts of speech. Of course, if you hear it read properly out loud, there's no potential misparsing.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on February 27, 2008, 02:17:43 PM
It took me half a dozen tries before I found a version that I could parse.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on February 27, 2008, 02:49:23 PM
I got it right off the bat, and had to reread a couple of times to misunderstand it.  Perhaps I ought to buy one of those day planners after all.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on February 27, 2008, 07:10:59 PM
Quote
I got it right off the bat, and had to reread a couple of times to misunderstand it.  Perhaps I ought to buy one of those day planners after all.
Ditto, but I'm fairly certain I have heard it said aloud before.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on March 05, 2008, 10:50:45 AM
I need some opinions on the following quote:
Quote
Commemorates Russia's 1812 defeat of Napoleon.
This made me do a double take. Why would anyone commemorate a defeat? It seems more natural to me to talk about commemorating a victory. Does it strike anyone else as just a little off?
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Neutros the Radioactive Dragon on March 05, 2008, 10:53:25 AM
It works, but is clumsy. I think I'd choose something that meant "in rememberence of" instead.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on March 05, 2008, 10:54:24 AM
It didn't until you pointed it out.  I'm still not sure if it does to me, though.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on March 05, 2008, 10:58:06 AM
It could just be that I'm really tired today and took an extra half-second to parse it. My mental process went something like "Why would Russia commemorate its own defeat? Oh, wait—it was Napoleon who was defeated." The more I look at it, the more I think it's probably just fine.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Neutros the Radioactive Dragon on March 05, 2008, 11:03:58 AM
Well, I parsed it the same way....

Maybe I am a bot?
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on March 05, 2008, 11:15:10 AM
While it's not the greatest phrasing, I'm having trouble coming up with anything better. "Victory over Napoleon" is worse, neh?
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Brinestone on March 05, 2008, 11:18:45 AM
They defeated Napoleon. I don't see what's wrong with it.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: pooka on March 06, 2008, 06:18:14 AM
The thing is, the Russians didn't really prevail over Napoleon on the battlefield.  My impression was it was the Russian winter that did him in.  He tried to march on to the Capital and his army just disintegrated... I think.  I could be wrong.  

Now I'll have to go look it up.

Campaign of 1812 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Napoleonic_Wars#The_Russia_campaign_of_1812)... Napoleon did make it to Moscow, but found it abandoned and on his retreat the army disintegrated.  Basically, the Russians out-retreated him.  Again, not what you'd call "victory" but defiinitely a defeat for Napoleon.  
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on March 06, 2008, 07:37:38 AM
I'd call that a victory.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on March 06, 2008, 07:40:41 AM
Traditionally, the Russians have won wars by surviving their winter weather better than the namby-pamby invaders.

Furs and vodka.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Neutros the Radioactive Dragon on March 06, 2008, 07:52:21 AM
:lol:  
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on March 06, 2008, 08:09:03 AM
Here's an awesome map/chart (http://strangemaps.wordpress.com/2007/12/31/229-vital-statistics-of-a-deadly-campaign-the-minard-map/) showing Napoleon's advance and retreat. The width of the line represents the number of men in his army. Peach is the advance, and black is the retreat.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on March 06, 2008, 11:17:56 AM
Wow. Great link, Jonathon.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on March 06, 2008, 11:22:02 AM
It's kind of mind-boggling to think that less than 2.5 percent of those soldiers came back alive.

And that site has all kinds of cool stuff. I'd forgotten about it until this discussion.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: pooka on March 06, 2008, 12:29:17 PM
Yeah, a lot of people try and do that with the election.  I personally find The population weighted map of the US (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Cartlinearlarge.png) really disturbing.  I understand what point they hoped to make, but it only succeeds in suggesting that the cartographer was dropping acid or something.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on March 06, 2008, 12:32:14 PM
I think I can identify Utah on that (not actual borders, but at least the general blobby area).
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on March 06, 2008, 02:04:07 PM
Quote
I understand what point they hoped to make, but it only succeeds in suggesting that the cartographer was dropping acid or something.
No kidding.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on March 12, 2008, 02:01:35 PM
"In Mexico, the fourth of July falls on the fifth of May."  
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on March 12, 2008, 02:02:01 PM
:lol:  
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on March 12, 2008, 02:02:14 PM
*blink*
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on March 12, 2008, 02:15:08 PM
Are you familiar with Cinco de Mayo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cinco_de_Mayo)?
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on March 12, 2008, 02:24:03 PM
Of course. That quote just made my brain hiccup.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on March 12, 2008, 06:14:27 PM
Well, sure. It should be  "In Mexico, the fourth of July falls on the sixteenth of September."
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on March 12, 2008, 07:16:08 PM
Um . . .
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on March 12, 2008, 07:22:39 PM
Quote
A common misconception in the United States is that Cinco de Mayo is Mexico's Independence Day; Mexico's Independence Day is actually September 16 (dieciséis de septiembre in Spanish), which is the most important national patriotic holiday in Mexico.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on March 12, 2008, 08:05:41 PM
I knew about the misconception (though I did not know that there is an actual Mexican Independence Day). But unless there's some sort of space-time anomaly going on south of the border, July 4th only ever falls on July 4th.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on March 12, 2008, 08:07:22 PM
That's just a coincidence.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on March 12, 2008, 09:53:32 PM
My grandfather's birthday always fell on Purim, no matter what date that was.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on March 12, 2008, 09:54:43 PM
Quote
But unless there's some sort of space-time anomaly going on south of the border, July 4th only ever falls on July 4th.
July 4th is a metaphor.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on March 13, 2008, 08:05:45 AM
Your mom is a metaphor.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: pooka on March 13, 2008, 08:20:43 AM
I'm hearing that with a Scotty accent.  Though he would say "mother".
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on March 13, 2008, 09:15:32 AM
Quote
Your mom is a metaphor.
That could cause some problems for her students. And my dad.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on March 31, 2008, 12:23:35 PM
Quote
A man that studieth revenge, keeps his own wounds green.
—Francis Bacon
What the crap?
 
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Brinestone on March 31, 2008, 12:46:37 PM
Um . . .  
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on March 31, 2008, 01:09:58 PM
I found the original, and those are indeed Francis Bacon's own words. He seems to use the -th and -s third-person singular endings somewhat interchangeably.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on March 31, 2008, 01:13:01 PM
Aren't they pretty much interchangeable?
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Brinestone on March 31, 2008, 01:18:46 PM
Very interesting.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on March 31, 2008, 01:31:29 PM
Quote
Aren't they pretty much interchangeable?
It depends on what you mean by that. They both mean "third-person singular indicative present tense," so in that sense they're interchangeable. The -th ending used to be the norm (indeed, the only option). Then the -s ending came along and eventually replaced it (and is now the only option, unless one is trying to sound archaic). I imagine there was a period of time when both were in use and were thus more realistically interchangeable.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on March 31, 2008, 03:23:08 PM
That just ain't kosher.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on April 02, 2008, 01:09:41 PM
"The way we see the problem is the problem."

Someone hit the Escape key—I think I'm entering an infinite loop.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on April 02, 2008, 01:16:44 PM
You know, maybe I'm getting soft in the head after a rough night at work and insufficient sleep, but I kind of like that; it makes sense to me.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on April 10, 2008, 08:20:05 AM
Quote
The subtle, classic design of these pages will assure you are only focused on your most important responsibilities.
Is there a word missing here?
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on April 10, 2008, 08:23:35 AM
Quote
The subtle, classic design of these pages will assure that you are only focused on your most important responsibilities.

Also, I'd switch the order of "only" and "focused".
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on April 10, 2008, 08:28:40 AM
Assure what or whom, though? I don't think "assure" can be intransitive.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Brinestone on April 10, 2008, 12:18:51 PM
Should it be ensure instead? I'm not really sure what the sentence means.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on April 10, 2008, 12:44:48 PM
Quote
Should it be ensure instead?
Yeah.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on April 10, 2008, 09:26:29 PM
I thought so too, but m-w says they mean the same thing.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on April 11, 2008, 08:46:40 AM
Quote
Should it be ensure instead? I'm not really sure what the sentence means.
I think they mean that the simple design won't distract you. I don't think it has to be ensure. I think it's just plain awkward.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: pooka on April 11, 2008, 10:26:33 AM
It sounds like a class action lawsuit in the making. ;)  "They assured me I would only focus on... oh, that clock uses IIII instead of IV."
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Primal Curve on April 29, 2008, 08:51:27 AM
Quote
ppt is insiment that we initiated a transfer of funds without her premission per above event

Gah! Illiterate boobs.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: pooka on April 29, 2008, 09:56:23 AM
What's "insiment" supposed to mean?
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Primal Curve on April 29, 2008, 10:48:28 AM
I'm pretty sure it's supposed to mean "insistent" or something.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on April 29, 2008, 11:50:36 AM
My boobs are quite literate, thank-you-very-much.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Neutros the Radioactive Dragon on April 29, 2008, 01:07:34 PM
o_O  
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on April 29, 2008, 01:15:55 PM
I don't believe that they are.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: pooka on April 29, 2008, 01:36:06 PM
I can't even read braille with my fingers.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on April 29, 2008, 02:28:59 PM
I think now would be an appropriate time for this guy:

 :peek:  
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Mr. Anderson on April 29, 2008, 02:30:33 PM
I haven't been in this forum for months, and this is the conversation I just happen to walk in on.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on April 30, 2008, 08:34:22 AM
Overheard at work last night:

Zoraida:  "I'm going to the vending machine to get sneakers.  Do you want something?"

Carmen:  "They have sneakers?  OK -- get me sneakers, too."

Zoraida:  "Esther, do you also want sneakers?"

Me:  "No.  I'm wearing boots."

That cracked them the heck up.  They were laughing all night that I thought a Sneakers Candy Bar goes on your feet.

"
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: pooka on April 30, 2008, 10:12:40 AM
:lol:  
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: pooka on May 05, 2008, 05:45:40 AM
Quote
by the Warehouse Employees, Dairy, Bakery, Softdrink, Laundry, Linen, General Sales Drivers and Allied Employees, Local Union No. ###, a/w International Brotherhood of Teamsters
I thought that was just their letterhead, but they really use that in a document.

I edited out the local number, just realized I shouldn't have put that in there.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on May 05, 2008, 08:06:10 AM
That's a long and unwieldy name if I've ever seen one. Also a pretty strange conglomeration.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on May 06, 2008, 12:16:34 PM
"orientate"

As opposed to, I suppose "orient".
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on May 06, 2008, 12:26:24 PM
Orientate (http://books.google.com/books?id=2yJusP0vrdgC&pg=PA698&vq=orientate&dq=dictionary+of+english+usage&source=gbs_search_s&sig=eqqCxRN-lLPMGtboPWRGBRztM3U) is a perfectly cromulent word. It's more common in British usage, though, probably because Americans are more likely to get their panties in a bunch over such things.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on May 06, 2008, 03:05:41 PM
I am fully aware that orientate is technically correct. But it's still WRONG! :P

And it's unnecessary -- orient works perfectly well as a verb. Ostentatious Brits. :angry:  
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on May 06, 2008, 03:08:06 PM
This wasn't a Brit.  It was an engineer.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on May 06, 2008, 03:10:34 PM
Quote
I am fully aware that orientate is technically correct. But it's still WRONG! :P

And it's unnecessary -- orient works perfectly well as a verb. Ostentatious Brits. :angry:
Wrong on the grounds that it's unnecessary? If that's the standard you're going to use for deciding what's right and what's wrong, then you've going to have to scrap whole swaths of the language.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on May 06, 2008, 03:10:57 PM
Quote
This wasn't a Brit.  It was an engineer.
I was just saying that it's far more common in Britain, not that it's exclusively British.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on May 06, 2008, 03:21:29 PM
Quote
Quote
I am fully aware that orientate is technically correct. But it's still WRONG! :P

And it's unnecessary -- orient works perfectly well as a verb. Ostentatious Brits. :angry:
Wrong on the grounds that it's unnecessary? If that's the standard you're going to use for deciding what's right and what's wrong, then you've going to have to scrap whole swaths of the language.
Like the less/fewer distinction. :P
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on May 06, 2008, 03:52:18 PM
Quote
Wrong on the grounds that it's unnecessary?
No, wrong because it warps the fabric of space-time.

The unnecessary aspect was a separate issue; hence the use of "and."
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on May 06, 2008, 03:57:40 PM
Quote
No, wrong because it warps the fabric of space-time.
Ah, so you're going to even try to come up with a good reason for your dislike of it, eh? :P

Quote
The unnecessary aspect was a separate issue; hence the use of "and."
So you don't think that being unnecessary is bad?
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: pooka on May 06, 2008, 06:57:31 PM
I think orientate sounds like a good signature dish for a Chinese pub called O'Chius.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on May 06, 2008, 08:46:24 PM
My main problem with "orientate" isn't the word itself, but how it's used by the people who use it; I mostly see people saying "orientate" instead of "orient" when they are trying to sound smarter than they are.

You know, like "cromulent".
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Brinestone on May 07, 2008, 01:49:59 AM
Is the "cromulent" part a joke?
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on May 07, 2008, 01:56:14 AM
I thought "cromulent" itself was a joke, a made-up word meant to sound erudite.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Brinestone on May 07, 2008, 02:51:17 AM
Yes. It's also from the Simpsons.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Neutros the Radioactive Dragon on May 07, 2008, 07:57:45 AM
It embiggens us all.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on May 07, 2008, 09:51:27 AM
My opinion is this: if you don't like a word like orientate, don't use it. But don't try to tell me there's something innately wrong with it, and don't judge and ridicule those who use it. Ruth told me that she naturally uses orientate, and I have never felt like her speech was ostentatious or pretentious or affected.

And really, isn't the word ostentatious more ostentatious than orientate, and erudite more erudite than orientate?
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Brinestone on May 07, 2008, 09:56:27 AM
Until this discussion, I always thought orientate sounded uneducated. I was self-conscious of the fact that I used it.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: pooka on May 07, 2008, 12:41:39 PM
When does anyone say "orient" in daily speech?  Perhaps in furniture arranging?
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: dkw on May 07, 2008, 12:44:43 PM
I think the only time I've ever heard orientate used or used it was jokingly in reference to orientation events.  As in, "what are you doing this weekend?"  "Oh, I've got to go get orientated."
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on May 07, 2008, 03:18:48 PM
Quote
When does anyone say "orient" in daily speech?  Perhaps in furniture arranging?
The opposite, with "dis," is somewhat more common. But I certainly have heard people talk about becoming oriented to their surroundings, or new job, or whatever.

I have visceral reaction to "orientate" (why? dunno), but I apologize if anyone felt judged or ridiculed. That was certainly not my intent.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Neutros the Radioactive Dragon on May 07, 2008, 03:31:52 PM
So, could this adoption of orientate be described as orientatenation?

Would that be orientable?
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on May 07, 2008, 03:57:53 PM
I deal with 3D modeling at work, and it's pretty common to talk about the orientation of a part.  
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on May 08, 2008, 02:58:53 PM
Quote
My opinion is this: if you don't like a word like orientate, don't use it. But don't try to tell me there's something innately wrong with it, and don't judge and ridicule those who use it. Ruth told me that she naturally uses orientate, and I have never felt like her speech was ostentatious or pretentious or affected.

And really, isn't the word ostentatious more ostentatious than orientate, and erudite more erudite than orientate?
I'm embarrassed that I may have insulted anyone here.  Surely my use of language and my pronunciation are not quite standard, and I'm a hypocrite to criticize anyone else's usage.

I'm sorry if I caused hurt feelings.  Please accept my apologies.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on May 08, 2008, 03:11:42 PM
I don't think you or Rivka or anyone else were insulting. I wasn't insulted, at any rate, and nobody else has said that they were either.

I guess I just don't understand the harsh criticisms some people heap on particular items of usage. If it's a joke, then I don't get it. If it's serious, then I think it's misinformed. I especially don't get why people have such strong feelings about such an obscure word as orientate.

Of course, I'm a hypocrite too, because I generally dislike the word utilize, but I think that's only (or mostly) because it's such a common word in overblown technical and bureaucratic writing.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on May 08, 2008, 03:13:42 PM
I heard the word orientate again today.  The beekeeper who brought 2 dozen behives here to live on our place said that the bees will be especially active and ornery for a day or so while they orientate themselves to their new surroundings.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on May 08, 2008, 03:25:44 PM
Quote
I don't think you or Rivka or anyone else were insulting. I wasn't insulted, at any rate, and nobody else has said that they were either.
Thanks for that, Jonathon.  It's been bothering me for days, the chagrin.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Neutros the Radioactive Dragon on May 08, 2008, 03:28:14 PM
Don't you mean chagrinitatory?

Or is that chagrinatatifications?
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Farmgirl on June 03, 2008, 11:02:11 AM
Okay - just overheard this at work and it made me ROFL.  Ought to use it as a sig.

Two co-workers talking about cars.

"This car wasn't just red, it was RED. It was a kinda of 'you-can-kill-someone-in-this-car-and-get-away-with-it' red!"


(sorry for all the hyphens, JB)
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on June 03, 2008, 11:06:48 AM
I absolve you of those hyphens.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on June 03, 2008, 11:13:31 AM
Quote
(sorry for all the hyphens, JB)
I don't know why they should bother me.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Neutros the Radioactive Dragon on June 03, 2008, 11:14:55 AM
In that usage, the speaker kind of intended them as a single word, I would guess.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on June 03, 2008, 11:16:55 AM
I actually think that's an awesome use of hyphens.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Farmgirl on June 03, 2008, 11:26:35 AM
I just had to say the apology because I had just read JB's column on hyphens, and I realized I have no idea what the right way is to use hyphens.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on June 03, 2008, 11:32:57 AM
You clearly have at least an idea. :)
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Mr. Anderson on June 03, 2008, 02:08:39 PM
Quote
Okay - just overheard this at work and it made me ROFL.  Ought to use it as a sig.

Two co-workers talking about cars.

"This car wasn't just red, it was RED. It was a kinda of 'you-can-kill-someone-in-this-car-and-get-away-with-it' red!"


(sorry for all the hyphens, JB)
Meaning the blood splatter would blend in with the paint?  And I really hope they didn't say "kinda of," but very intelligent sounding people either way.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Farmgirl on June 03, 2008, 02:32:00 PM
Ha -- yeah, I know. I pointed out that blood, once dried or exposed to air long, is no longer red, but more of a dull brown, and that would show up nicely on a red car :)
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on June 26, 2008, 01:34:26 PM
Quote
Inasmuch as we had not previously utilized I was concerned about what it would mean.
As am I.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on July 18, 2008, 03:03:13 PM
Quote
In Paul's discussion in verse 3, the KJV "benevolence" (Greek opheilen) literally means "that which is owed" or "one's due or obligation," which was also a euphemism for pleasing a wife conjugally.
Which is itself a euphemism for having sex.  
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Annie Subjunctive on July 21, 2008, 06:28:15 PM
How euphemic can we be?
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on July 21, 2008, 06:49:58 PM
My favorite euphemism for sex is from Steven Covey's 7 Habits book, and it goes something like, "Even the way in which a man and woman bring a child into the world is synergistic." After that, Cicada and I took every mention of synergy as a reference to sex.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on August 12, 2008, 08:33:12 PM
Got this email at work tonight.  What's with the random capitalization and quote marks?

Quote
Please be "advised" that on Thursday August 14 and Friday August 15 the Lobby Entrance Road will be "Closed" to make necessary repairs. There will be Contractors resurfacing the the road. Pedestrians are asked to "Used Caution" when entering and exiting the Building. The River Road Entrance should be used for dropping off and picking up People.

Duly noted.  I'll be sure to Take that under "advisement".



(And, not for nothing, do they really expect the pedestrians and hospital visitors to be seeing this email?)
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Neutros the Radioactive Dragon on August 13, 2008, 08:27:06 AM
*used caution*
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on August 13, 2008, 12:30:43 PM
It's more cost effective than brand new caution.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on August 15, 2008, 03:12:09 PM
From an article talking about Egyptian astronomy:
Quote
In our era of large cities and electric lights, it is hard to picture how much these celestial bodies were part of Egyptian life. Most students do not regularly see starry nights because of light pollution. The natural nocturnal luminaries were particularly striking in Egypt, where most nights were cloudless and very clear. The lustrous bodies of the night sky were overlarge; they dominated the night landscape and forced their way into the minds and visions of every Egyptian soul. They were a much greater and pressing presence for these ancient inhabitants than most of us would naturally assume. Because of this powerful, intrusive sight, the stars spoke loudly to the Egyptians, whether they wanted them to or not. Their movements and power were an inescapable noise raining upon the eyes of our ancient counterparts.
I'm not sure I've ever seen such purple prose in my life. The awkward second references (http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/news/mcintyre/blog/2008/08/that_elongated_yellow_fruit.html) are pretty good, too.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on August 15, 2008, 07:26:11 PM
Quote
I'm not sure I've ever seen such purple prose in my life.
You've been reading Sakeriver over the last few months, haven't you?
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on August 15, 2008, 07:50:50 PM
I think it's worse when it comes from a professor writing an academic paper.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on August 21, 2008, 10:54:26 AM
Quote
What he did notice was that the number of women far outnumbered the number of men in the audiences.
What I noticed is that the number of instances of "numbers" far outnumbers the number of times the word "number" needs to be there.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on August 21, 2008, 10:56:48 AM
Quote
There were almost as many "visions" as there were hundreds of denominations.
So . . . there were hundreds?
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on August 21, 2008, 11:03:05 AM
Almost.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on August 21, 2008, 11:28:37 AM
Got it. All is clear now!
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: dkw on August 21, 2008, 12:39:35 PM
No, no.  There were slightly more than 100 times as many denominations as there were visions.  I don't see what's so confusing about that!
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on August 21, 2008, 12:50:00 PM
Ah.  I see now.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on August 21, 2008, 02:20:41 PM
Quote
No, no.  There were slightly more than 100 times as many denominations as there were visions.  I don't see what's so confusing about that!
Aha! I don't know what I was smoking before. Now it's really clear. So if, for example, there were seven hundreds of denominations, then there'd be almost seven visions. It makes perfect sense.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Annie Subjunctive on September 18, 2008, 01:05:43 PM
Maybe I'm not understanding what they're trying to say here, but:
Quote
Overall, the research and definition of culture has shifted over the past 40 years, and this has been heavily influenced by the academic fields of sociology and anthropology. Old definitions from Webster (Mish, 2001) included the 'cultivation of soil' or the 'raising, improvement, or development of some plant, animal or product.' Today, the meaning has gone from Arnold's 1869 view of culture having characteristics of beauty, intelligence, and perfections to the idea of culture being very ordinary in how each human society shapes its own purposes and meanings.
If you're trying to say that the meaning of the word culture has changed, shouldn't you leave the "growing things" meaning out of it altogether? That's still an alternate meaning for culture, and has nothing whatsoever to do with what we mean when we say "culture" in the sociological context.

Methinks.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on September 18, 2008, 01:11:58 PM
The OED has the definition "The cultivation or development of the mind, faculties, manners, etc.; improvement by education and training" dating back to 1510. This evolved into the meaning "The distinctive ideas, customs, social behaviour, products, or way of life of a particular society, people, or period" by 1860. So it's not just the last 40 years. The agricultural sense really does seem irrelevant, though.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Annie Subjunctive on September 18, 2008, 01:34:10 PM
The more I read other people's published dissertations, the less I worry about my own. This same piece talks about programs that "use multimedia to peak the students' interest."
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Neutros the Radioactive Dragon on September 18, 2008, 04:13:12 PM
>.<

That's as bad as using "jive" instead of "jibe".

 :nono:  
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on September 18, 2008, 10:37:34 PM
Oh stewardess, I speak jive.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on September 19, 2008, 07:03:50 AM
Quote
That's as bad as using "jive" instead of "jibe".
Huh.  I never knew that was wrong.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Annie Subjunctive on October 09, 2008, 10:33:38 AM
Is this correct?
Quote
Additional case studies are needed to establish our results, using exemplary teachers as well as less good teachers from different universities and colleges and from different departments.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on October 09, 2008, 10:40:27 AM
"less good" is a little awkward, but that's probably better than saying "inferior teachers" or something of the sort.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on October 09, 2008, 02:45:48 PM
It should definitely be "fewer good teachers," because "teachers" is a countable noun.



But in all seriousness, I'd go with something like "teachers who are not as good." Actually, I still don't like that much, but my head hurts too much to come up with something better right now.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Noemon on October 10, 2008, 10:20:43 AM
How about "using both normal and exemplary teachers"?
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on October 10, 2008, 11:39:12 AM
I think that sounds good.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Amilia on November 14, 2008, 02:24:36 PM
I work for an art glass studio.  My favorite supplier, Mad Dog, has a hoot of a catalog.  Most of the entries are ordinary businesslike entries.  But every now and again I come across one that just cracks me the heck up.  One I just ran across:

Quote
ZINC BRACE BAR
SISSY BAR!  As thick as the STEEL BAR, but bends and solders much easier.  Great for curvy bracing.

My all time favorite entry:

Quote
APRON
Ultra chic, apron with scientifically devised rear opening for fresh air circulation.  One trendy size fits all.

The caption next to the apron's picture reads:
Quote
Maude Dogge with apron
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: pooka on November 14, 2008, 06:20:18 PM
Fresh air circulation.   :lol:  
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on December 30, 2008, 10:43:15 AM
Quote
The final conditions of the surrender called for the Mormons to make an appropriation of property to cover any indemnities caused during the Missouri conflict . . .
Uh, no. The Mormons did not appropriate any property; they surrendered it. The state of Missouri appropriated the property. And the appropriation did not cover any indemnities; the appropriation was the indemnity against the damages caused by the conflict.

The whole paper is full of stuff like this—not just awkwardness or wordiness, but flat-out wrongness.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: pooka on December 31, 2008, 09:33:32 AM
You can't just scrawl "I do not think that word means what you think it means" and give it back, I suppose.

Yeah, that definitely makes it sound like the Mormons received stuff, which is not how I've heard it.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on December 31, 2008, 10:17:38 AM
He used "appropriated" somewhere else when he clearly meant something more like "disbursed". I'm guessing he just doesn't know what it means.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Narnia on January 02, 2009, 10:05:12 AM
Why does my supervisor (along with a zillion other people) use the word 'we' when asking how my project is progressing?  "How are we doing?"  I didn't realize how absolutely irritating that was until I started hearing it from him 2-3 times a day.  

I am comfortable enough with him that I once said "I don't know how you're doing, but I'm doing fine!"  He didn't get the hint, and still uses the 'we' version all the freaking time.   o_O  
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on January 02, 2009, 10:06:10 AM
1) He thinks he's royalty.

2) He has a tapeworm.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on January 02, 2009, 10:08:27 AM
3) He's using an indirect form to be polite.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Narnia on January 02, 2009, 10:09:19 AM
Quote
3) He's using an indirect form to be polite.
I don't get that.  It sounds condescending and incorrect.  I think I'm going to go with rivka's tapeworm theory. ;)
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on January 02, 2009, 10:14:52 AM
:lol:  
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on January 02, 2009, 10:15:34 AM
I manage, or supervise, or whatever.  I never do the "How are we doing?" thing.  Typical is, "What's the story?", "Any news?", "Anything to report?"  "What's going on with <whatever>?", or "What's the word on the street?".

Narnia, how do you feel about those?
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Narnia on January 02, 2009, 10:23:36 AM
I like them all much better than 'how are we doing?'  I would welcome any or all of them at any time.  :)

After 3 more seconds of deep thought, I realize that Tante's phrases invite simple answers like "No problem," "everything's ok," etc.  Whereas "How are we doing?" seems to require something....else.  I'm not sure what.  I know I'm just being silly, but there it is.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on January 02, 2009, 11:08:07 AM
I love the simple answers, especially when they are "everything's OK".  Of course, if I find out later that everything was not OK, that's not so cool.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on January 02, 2009, 11:17:04 AM
Quote
Whereas "How are we doing?" seems to require something....else.  I'm not sure what.  I know I'm just being silly, but there it is.
Huh. I just respond with "Fine, thanks." Maybe you're responding to body language as well?
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Narnia on January 02, 2009, 11:28:08 AM
I gues it seems like I need to say something else more specific I guess.  I can't quite tell.

I'm a terrible person, though.  He just did it again with a "Do you think we'll be able to finsish [project] by the end of today?"

I responded with "I'll be able to finish it...I don't know about the two of us together."  (Like I said, our working relationship is pretty casual and joky, so I felt comfortable saying that.)  He totally didn't get it.  *sigh*  I'll shut up I guess.  :sarcasm:
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Zalmoxis on January 02, 2009, 02:13:15 PM
There is no I in team, Narnia.

Edit to add: But there are two 'A's in The A-Team!
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on January 02, 2009, 02:34:35 PM
If you want him to get it, try, "Oh! Are you going to help? Great! You type, and I'll dictate."
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Narnia on January 02, 2009, 02:39:28 PM
:D

That was meant for Zal, but it works for Rivka too.  I honestly think that he doesn't even realize it.  If I said that, he'd be like "What are you talking about?" He already thinks I'm insane, so I'd better stop while I'm ahead. ;)
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on January 03, 2009, 03:54:02 PM
If I were to give you some honest, useful advice in this, it would be to either ignore him or laugh at him behind his back.  That's what the people I supervise do.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Noemon on January 12, 2009, 08:42:29 AM
Remember a few weeks ago, when I posted about a coworker with idiosyncratic ways of pronouncing just about everything, who is also very quick to correct my pronunciation? I just overheard him talking to another coworker. They're talking about movies, and he was referencing some film where Ride of the Valkyries was used to comic effect. He pronounced Wagner "Vaagner", with the "aa" sounding like the "a" in "can", but more drawn out.  
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Annie Subjunctive on January 12, 2009, 09:19:39 AM
I'll add my vote to the we annoyance. Although my personal pet peeve is when people say "we're pregnant." No... no, you're not.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on January 12, 2009, 09:23:35 AM
Quote
Although my personal pet peeve is when people say "we're pregnant." No... no, you're not.
Do you find it annoying when the woman says that?
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Noemon on January 12, 2009, 09:48:41 AM
I do. Unless by "we" she means herself and another woman or group of women, all of whom are in a family way.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on January 12, 2009, 10:24:36 AM
I never said "we're pregnant", but I did say that "we're expecting a baby in February".

Which we both were.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on January 12, 2009, 10:25:37 AM
In fact, come to think of it, I don't think I said "pregnant" much at all, referring to myself or us.  I think I preferred, "expecting" for both.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Noemon on January 12, 2009, 10:31:57 AM
And that's entirely different.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: The Genuine on January 12, 2009, 10:52:29 AM
Quote
Quote
Although my personal pet peeve is when people say "we're pregnant." No... no, you're not.
Do you find it annoying when the woman says that?
I do.

And I also love the Spanish false cognate "embarazada."  In certain situations of pregnancy, saying "we're embarassed" is probably a lot more useful in a lot more situations than saying "we're pregnant."
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on January 15, 2009, 08:26:16 AM
The author of the piece I'm currently editing has a really annoying habit of omitting that whenever possible. He writes sentences like "Smalling adds Joseph Smith told them he had . . .". Sure, there's nothing grammatically wrong with it, because English allows omission of relative that in certain cases, but he does it a lot in cases that cause (temporary) misparsing. I've probably inserted one or two per page, and I'm on page 54 now.

The most annoying part of the piece, though, is the fact that the the body of the article is 38 pages, but the notes take up another 78 pages. I came across one note that went on for three and a half pages. Note to authors: if it's important enough to include in the article, put it in the body of the text where people will read it and where it will lend support to your thesis. If it's not that important, briefly mention the issue and then refer readers to some other sources that cover it in more detail. Heck, why not take all those tangential discussions in the endnotes and make separate pieces out of them if they're so important.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: The Genuine on January 15, 2009, 10:26:51 AM
That's a good general rule for the kind of stuff you're probably writing, but I am compelled to add:

Unlike law journals, which have many footnotes, legal briefs to real courts use in-line citations.  So while we do sometimes use footnotes to add a little tangential point, we also sometimes drop a footnote as a way of actually highlighting an important point (because of the visual offset).

We'd never do a lengthy one though (so I'm not actually disagreeing with you, just adding my two valuable cents).  Usually a snide comment like "While opposing counsel has made much of blah blah blah, it is telling that they previously blah blah blah."
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on February 18, 2009, 01:44:31 PM
The editor before me took this sentence:
Quote
Rather than requiring justice or compensation, a vendetta as seen in the concept of "an eye for an eye," this ransom functions as a substitute that allows the injured party to extend mercy and be reconciled.
And turned it into this:
Quote
Rather than requiring justice or compensation, a vendetta is seen in the concept of "an eye for an eye." This ransom functions as a substitute that allows the injured party to extend mercy and be reconciled.
The first one was awkward, but the second is simply ungrammatical and nonsensical. Argh.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: The Genuine on February 18, 2009, 01:51:49 PM
I have have no idea what either one is trying to say.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on February 18, 2009, 05:25:47 PM
Apparently my coworker didn't either. It doesn't help that they're out of context. It's talking about the law of sacrifice in the Old Testament. It probably makes more sense if you take out the awkward parenthetical clause beginning with "a vendetta".
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: The Genuine on February 18, 2009, 05:35:10 PM
Indeed.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on February 18, 2009, 06:32:39 PM
Funny. I knew exactly what it was about.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on February 18, 2009, 06:47:00 PM
As you should. :P  
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on February 18, 2009, 07:43:36 PM
Shall we count the number of conceptual issues I have with the sentence, above and beyond its glaring usage/grammar/etc. problems? ;)
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on February 18, 2009, 07:58:37 PM
Nah, that's okay. It just struck me as funny that a Jew instantly knew what it was about, even out of context.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on February 18, 2009, 08:42:33 PM
It helps that this Jew has had previous discussions with Christians on related topics.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: The Genuine on February 18, 2009, 08:59:39 PM
Why would it take a conversation with a Christian (New Testament person) for a Jew (Old Testament person) to understand an Old Testament passage?  What's up with this passage?  Can I get a citation?

(In advance, both thanks, and apologies for my ignorance.)
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on February 18, 2009, 09:06:11 PM
It would probably take a conversation with a Christian to understand a Christian interpretation of it.

I'm not sure of the exact passage the author was referencing, but she talked about Isaiah 53 a lot, so it might have been in there somewhere. If you're really curious, I can check tomorrow.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: The Genuine on February 18, 2009, 09:27:47 PM
Oh the pain!  I accidently read Isaiah 52 in my quest for 53!  It burns!  Too much Bible!!!

 :P


Huh.  I don't see it in 53, though I can see how that part (chapter?) would relate to the analysis.  That part in 53:10 is a bit scary where it says (King James) "Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him."
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on February 18, 2009, 09:31:55 PM
You aren't looking for the quote that I posted, are you? Because that's the author's commentary on a particular passage. And now that I think about it, it might have been in Exodus or Leviticus. You'd better read both of those just to be safe.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: The Genuine on February 18, 2009, 09:36:58 PM
No, I wasn't looking for the "an eye for an eye" bit, just something about retribution in 53.  Without more context, I doubt I could ever find it in my lifetime.  I've never made it through the entire Bible or Book of Mormon.  Not start-to-finish, anyway.  You think legal writing's bad???
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on February 18, 2009, 09:54:17 PM
Quote
It would probably take a conversation with a Christian to understand a Christian interpretation of it.
Bingo.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Annie Subjunctive on February 19, 2009, 12:48:04 PM
Ok, this one is awkward, but I wrote it. What's the most effective way to say what I'm trying to say here?

Quote
Taking cues from the classroom environment researchers, we seek to place the current extant body of knowledge within a metaphorical framework that views computer technology as one of many factors in an ecosystem.

Can I say "currant extant?" Is there a better way to say that? Does the sentence make sense? While it's not my research question, it is in a fairly key spot in my introduction.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on February 19, 2009, 01:03:32 PM
"Extant" implies that it is something that has survived while other things have been lost or destroyed, such as extant manuscript fragments. I think it's just fine with "current".
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on February 20, 2009, 08:06:39 AM
If you're still interested, Jesse, the passage referenced by that quote is Exodus 21:29–30.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: The Genuine on February 20, 2009, 10:28:08 AM
Quote
29:  But if the ox were wont to push with his horn in time past, and it hath been testified to his owner, and he hath not kept him in, but that he hath killed a man or a woman; the ox shall be stoned, and his owner also shall be put to death.

30:  If there be laid on him a sum of money, then he shall give for the ransom of his life whatsoever is laid upon him.


29:  So if my ox kills someone, and I'm responsible for not keeping it in its pen, both the ox and I can be put to death.  That's clear enough.

30:  I'm not sure I get this.  Does it mean the owner has to give all of his money instead of being put to death?
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on February 20, 2009, 11:22:08 AM
I don't see where you're getting the "all".  
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: The Genuine on February 20, 2009, 11:35:55 AM
It was just a guess, because it's not clear who would be laying on him a sum of money.  So I guessed it meant God, in which case it necessarily had to be all of his money.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on February 20, 2009, 11:41:42 AM
I'm guessing the family of whomever the ox killed. The Germanic people once had a similar practice called weregild (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weregild) ('man-payment').
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Annie Subjunctive on February 20, 2009, 12:02:29 PM
And this is my humble opinion, but none of that is really about an ox at all. It's symbolism for an atonement for sin.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on February 20, 2009, 03:56:30 PM
Quote
And this is my humble opinion, but none of that is really about an ox at all. It's symbolism for an atonement for sin.
That's the point where Jewish tradition disagrees with you.

I am definitely not an expert in N'zikin (damages), but IIRC, the first verse talks not about what is actually done by a human court, but what the negligent owner deserves by the hands of Heaven. The second describes what is actually done. And the "him" is not the guilty party. It means the value of the victim -- in terms of earning potential. Sort of like how life insurance is supposed to work. Also, the ox's owner is only responsible if the ox is "an habitual gorer". Like how in American law they say every dog gets one bite?

Also, did Jesse get confused, or is this one of the places where the numbering differrs between a Tanach and Christian Bible? To me, the verses Jesse quoted are 28 - 29.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: The Genuine on February 20, 2009, 04:28:56 PM
Quote
Also, the ox's owner is only responsible if the ox is "an habitual gorer". Like how in American law they say every dog gets one bite?
That makes sense, Rivka.

Anyway, since the Bible isn't exactly my field:  the one-bite rule does not necessarily apply if you already know your dog has violent tendencies.  And then there's the question about whether that rule applies only to strict liability cases, as opposed to mere negligence.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: The Genuine on February 20, 2009, 04:30:00 PM
Oh, I got that from some online King James version.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_...er=21&version=9 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=2&chapter=21&version=9)
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Annie Subjunctive on February 20, 2009, 04:38:38 PM
I guess I should say - I think it is about the ox, but it's also full of symbolism, according to Christians.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on February 20, 2009, 05:15:15 PM
Quote
Also, did Jesse get confused, or is this one of the places where the numbering differrs between a Tanach and Christian Bible? To me, the verses Jesse quoted are 28 - 29.
I'm the one who gave the reference, not Jesse. I don't know how the verses are numbered in the Tanach, but in the King James version the relevant verses were 29 and 30.

And I should note that I really did not want to kick off a discussion on scripture interpretation. The only point I was trying to make was that my coworker botched something.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: The Genuine on February 20, 2009, 05:55:55 PM
Does that mean you would prefer not to have such discussions here in general, or were you simply pointing out that that's not what you meant to start at this time on this subject?
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on February 20, 2009, 06:02:47 PM
Mostly the latter, but also some of the former. It wasn't my intent for this thread to be hijacked, and I'm afraid it won't be a terribly productive discussion.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: The Genuine on February 20, 2009, 06:03:43 PM
::pokes out your eye::

 :pirate:
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on February 20, 2009, 06:04:27 PM
Ow! That was uncalled for.

 :cry:  
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Annie Subjunctive on February 20, 2009, 06:47:34 PM
You should poke out his eye.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Annie Subjunctive on February 20, 2009, 06:49:45 PM
And if it helps at all, the reason I brought it up was to clarify for Jesse that, at least according to some interpretations, it's not just rambly words about oxes. That there's symbolic meaning there.

Not that Rivka's interpretation is rambly. Just that someone unfamiliar with the Old Testament might find it a lot more boring than it actually is.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: The Genuine on February 20, 2009, 07:04:12 PM
Actually, oxen really excite me.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on February 21, 2009, 09:15:36 PM
Quote
Quote
Also, did Jesse get confused, or is this one of the places where the numbering differrs between a Tanach and Christian Bible? To me, the verses Jesse quoted are 28 - 29.
I'm the one who gave the reference, not Jesse. I don't know how the verses are numbered in the Tanach, but in the King James version the relevant verses were 29 and 30.
I know. But he provided the verses. I was asking if he got them wrong, or if the numbering was different.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: The Genuine on February 22, 2009, 08:21:19 AM
Apparently King James wasn't entirely thrilled with your translation.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on February 22, 2009, 08:37:01 AM
I never met the man!
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on March 13, 2009, 02:57:27 PM
Seen on a listserv for college registrars:
Quote
The card is given out in the robbing room the day of commencement.
*snicker*
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Farmgirl on March 14, 2009, 06:48:06 AM
Well, it's nice to know they are preparing them for SOME way to support themselves after college! :)
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on March 14, 2009, 10:41:16 PM
By teaching them how to cope with theft?
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Annie Subjunctive on April 02, 2009, 03:42:09 PM
This isn't a quote from work, but it's a question about work.

Is it OK to say "the turn of the century" to refer to the most recent turn of century? I want to write it in this paper to refer to how things have changed since the late 1990's, early 2000's, but when I re-read it it sounds like I'm talking about a hundred years ago.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on April 02, 2009, 04:03:16 PM
I say it, but am usually misunderstood.

"I thought scrunchies went out at the turn of the century."

"Nah, everyone was wearing them in the '90's."

"Exactly."
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on April 02, 2009, 04:06:43 PM
If it sounds like you're talking about 100 years ago, then I'd find a different way to say it.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Annie Subjunctive on April 02, 2009, 04:12:05 PM
My problem is that I've already said "since the 1990s" twice. What would be another good way to re-word?

Here's the paragraph:
Quote
With such results, the call for more computer access was the new rallying cry and school districts were quick to follow national trends. But in the late 1990s, it became apparent to researchers that increasing access was not being matched by increasing success, or even increasing use, in the average classroom (Cuban, 1999). By 1995, schools averaged one computer for every nine students, but the impact on instruction was minimal and a significant number of teachers didn’t use computers at all (Reiser, 2001). Since the turn of the century, the focus has shifted to the phenomenon of integration.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on April 02, 2009, 04:30:50 PM
Personally, I think it's clear in context which turn of the century you're talking about. But what's wrong with "since 2000" if you feel like you're saying "since the 1990s" too much?
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Annie Subjunctive on April 02, 2009, 04:35:58 PM
I feel like there's too many numbers.  
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on April 02, 2009, 05:50:53 PM
"In the past two decades"?
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on April 02, 2009, 07:28:32 PM
The turn of this century.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on April 10, 2009, 10:48:54 AM
Quote
After receiving no governmental protection, Joseph Smith said "[the Constitution's] sentiments are good, but it provides no means of enforcing them."
How do you say something after something that didn't happen and kept not happening? Receiving no governmental protection doesn't have an end point in time unless you start receiving no governmental protection, in which case Joseph Smith probably wouldn't have said that. (And anyway, then I'd word it something like "After receiving governmental protection . . .".)
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on April 10, 2009, 10:57:15 AM
How about "After asking for and not receiving governmental protection, Joseph Smith said..." or "Disappointed in not receiving governmental protection, Joseph Smith said..."
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on April 10, 2009, 12:39:30 PM
I think both of those work really well, because it shows the causality and sequence of events more clearly.

Of course, this is a student paper that I'm grading, not a piece that I'm editing. I just wanted to share because it was semantically weird.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Annie Subjunctive on April 23, 2009, 12:15:49 PM
Any ideas?

This is the introduction to my article, which I've re-written about 47 times. I finally feel like it says what I want it to say. But the last sentence is just wonky. What would be a better way to word that? Any other critiques are welcome.

Quote
Over the past 30 years, information and communication technologies have revolutionized the workplace and the home. In the classroom, however, computer technology has not had the same transformative effect (Davidson, 2007). Why hasn’t the use of educational technology kept pace? Researchers have been investigating this issue since the personal computer became widely available in the early 1980s. We attempt here a brief historical overview of the current of thought on the issue of computers in education, highlighting the shifting focus over the years from the ease of access to computer technology to the factors that influence successful integration once that access is attained; such as teacher qualifications, pedagogy, teacher attitudes and beliefs, and external environmental constraints. And yet, even after years of inquiry, it seems that “education … remains rooted in the practices of the past and continues to resist the lessons arising from educational research” (Desjardins & vanOostveen, 2008).

We propose that the underlying issue behind all of these findings is the concept of agentive valuation, the process by which goal-oriented agents willfully react to perceived benefits and threats within their environments. Agentive valuation is driven by motivations similar to those we find in organisms in the natural world, namely risk aversion and perceptive valuation of the surrounding environment. We conclude that the successful integration of technology is a function of its perceived contribution to the goals of the agents within the environment. In the case of education, these agents are teachers, administrators and students. We believe that recognizing this concept of agentive valuation reconciles the many facets of the issue that researchers have previously described into one whole.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on April 23, 2009, 09:06:06 PM
We believe that recognizing this concept of agentive valuation addresses many previously unacknowledged facets of the issue.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Annie Subjunctive on April 23, 2009, 09:16:11 PM
We want to say that the other facets are acknowledged by everyone else but that this concept reconciles them.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on April 23, 2009, 10:04:13 PM
We believe that this concept of agentive valuation addresses many previously unreconciled facets of the issue.
 
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Ajar on April 30, 2009, 11:09:32 AM
"He folded like a cheap suitcase."

"We chased that like a dead herring."

Actual quotes from a co-worker.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on April 30, 2009, 11:11:30 AM
Quote
technology implies belligerence
Huh?
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Narnia on April 30, 2009, 01:57:36 PM
Quote
"He folded like a cheap suitcase."

"We chased that like a dead herring."

Actual quotes from a co-worker.
WOW.  I think I'm extra giggly today.  That made me LOL.  Again.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on April 30, 2009, 01:58:11 PM
I need to know. Is the dead herring chasing or being chased? Is it red?
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Ajar on May 01, 2009, 10:59:04 AM
Quote
Quote
technology implies belligerence
Huh?
It's a quote from a great short story by Peter Watts. I'm pretty sure the story is available on his website, but I can't remember the title. I'll try to remember to look it up in my anthology tonight and link you.

The dead herring was a theoretical lead being followed that ultimately led nowhere, so I guess it turned out to be both red and dead.  
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on May 01, 2009, 01:51:18 PM
How does technology imply belligerence?
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Annie Subjunctive on May 01, 2009, 09:37:13 PM
Quote
I need to know. Is the dead herring chasing or being chased? Is it red?
I think it's a chaste herring.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Ajar on May 04, 2009, 04:57:19 PM
I should hope the herring is chaste -- it's dead!

Today, my co-worker coined a new one -- "Don't let me hold the door for you on the way out."

"Don't let the door hit you on the way out" + "Let me hold the door for you," I'm thinking.

Quote
How does technology imply belligerence?

Porter, the story is called 'Ambassador.' (http://rifters.com/real/shorts.htm)
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on May 04, 2009, 05:21:54 PM
I've been seeing this one a lot lately, and now it's showing up at work.

Its'.

When you're not sure whether it should be "its" or "it's", the solution is NOT to settle on "its'" as a compromise!!! >.<
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on May 04, 2009, 08:03:43 PM
It makes as much sense as the standard rule. :P
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on May 04, 2009, 08:41:17 PM
I'd have to say it makes less.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on May 04, 2009, 09:27:46 PM
Less than zero?
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on May 04, 2009, 09:33:48 PM
The current rules for its and it's do not make zero sense.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on May 04, 2009, 09:55:46 PM
From bubkes to makkes!*

*From next-to-nothing to absolutely nothing.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on May 04, 2009, 10:44:16 PM
Quote
The current rules for its and it's do not make zero sense.
Explain to me the sense of why one has an apostrophe and the other does not, and why it's not the other way around.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on May 05, 2009, 12:06:29 AM
Well, "it's" is a contraction of "it is", and contractions get apostrophes when they contract.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on May 05, 2009, 12:09:12 AM
Now explain why there's no apostrophe for the possessive form.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on May 05, 2009, 12:14:01 AM
None of the possessive pronouns get apostrophes, so if they let its have one, then his and her and their would get jealous.  You know how possessive they can be.

Hey, it IS a stupid excuse for a possessive pronoun.  If I could, I would have a talking to with the folk who thought that one up.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on May 05, 2009, 08:55:42 AM
Quote

Quote
How does technology imply belligerence?

Porter, the story is called 'Ambassador.' (http://rifters.com/real/shorts.htm)
Here's the answer I was looking for:

Quote
Tools  exist   for  only one  reason:     to  force  the universe  into
unnatural   shapes.    They  treat   nature   as   an  enemy,   they  are  by
definition   a   rebellion   against   the   way   things   are.     In   benign
environments  technology  is   a   stunted,   laughable   thing,   it   can't
thrive in cultures gripped by belief in natural harmony.  What need
of   fusion   reactors   if   food   is   already   abundant,   the   climate
comfortable?   Why  force change upon a world which poses no
danger?
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on May 05, 2009, 10:39:35 AM
Quote
Quote
The current rules for its and it's do not make zero sense.
Explain to me the sense of why one has an apostrophe and the other does not, and why it's not the other way around.
Contractions with pronouns and forms of helping verbs, including be, always have apostrophes standing in for the omitted letters—for example, he's, she's, I'm, they're, we'll, you've and so on. There aren't any exceptions to this rule, so there's nothing nonsensical about that.

Possessive forms of personal, interrogative, and relative pronouns never have apostrophes. Of course, the only ones that end in s are his and whose, and even though these historically comes from he or who plus the genitive s inflection, morphologically it's not really the same as the possessive s that we attach to other things. The question is whether it is still considered a personal pronoun and whether the s on the possessive form is the same as the one on his and whose or something else. You could make a good argument that its is just it plus the possessive 's enclitic, just like one's. So that's where it's debatable and maybe a little nonsensical (though not completely nonsensical).
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on May 05, 2009, 10:46:21 AM
Quote
You could make a good argument that its is just it plus the possessive 's enclitic, just like one's.
That's how I view it, but with the added bonus of somebody making an annoying rule that it's not supposed to have an apostrophe so as to avoid nonexistent confusion.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on May 05, 2009, 11:11:30 AM
I'd have to agree with you there.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Ajar on May 06, 2009, 10:49:28 AM
Quote
Quote

Quote
How does technology imply belligerence?

Porter, the story is called 'Ambassador.' (http://rifters.com/real/shorts.htm)
Here's the answer I was looking for:

Quote
Tools  exist   for  only one  reason:     to  force  the universe  into
unnatural   shapes.    They  treat   nature   as   an  enemy,   they  are  by
definition   a   rebellion   against   the   way   things   are.     In   benign
environments  technology  is   a   stunted,   laughable   thing,   it   can't
thrive in cultures gripped by belief in natural harmony.  What need
of   fusion   reactors   if   food   is   already   abundant,   the   climate
comfortable?   Why  force change upon a world which poses no
danger?
Yep.

I really like the story, so while I suppose I could have answered you in detail myself, I wanted to share the story instead. :)
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on May 06, 2009, 10:59:53 AM
That was a very Peter Watts story.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Ajar on May 06, 2009, 12:47:28 PM
Yes. Yes it was.  :lol:  
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on May 06, 2009, 12:50:57 PM
Peter Watts story are much more your type of story than mine.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Ajar on May 07, 2009, 07:20:42 AM
Sorry. :( I thought you liked Blindsight.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on May 07, 2009, 07:40:52 AM
It was interesting, but I didn't like it nearly as much as you did.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on June 04, 2009, 02:39:09 PM
This comes from a book about Latter-day Saints in Germany during World War II. It's a woman's recollection of her father coming home from a POW camp when she was four. That's as much as is explained in the text.
Quote
He was skinny, but he was pretty healthy. I didn’t know him. When he came home I was still in a crib. And he came home and my mom was so excited, and she came in—it was midnight, and he said, “Oh, look who’s home!” And I said, “Yeah, an uncle!” And my mom said, “No, it’s your dad!” And I said, “No, it’s an uncle!” And over and over my mom said, “It’s your dad!” and I said, “No, it’s an uncle!” And my dad had a salami that he had gotten somehow, and he showed me the salami, and I said, “That’s my dad!”
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on June 04, 2009, 03:00:21 PM
o_O
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on June 04, 2009, 10:01:52 PM
I wouldn't accept a strange man as my father for just a salami.  I'd require some rye bread, some deli mustard, a nice cole slaw on the side, and a juicy pickle.

I have standards.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Neutros the Radioactive Dragon on June 05, 2009, 08:53:12 AM
Quote
I wouldn't accept a strange man as my father for just a salami.  I'd require some rye bread, some deli mustard, a nice cole slaw on the side, and a juicy pickle.

I have standards.
 :erm:  
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Noemon on June 11, 2009, 07:57:09 PM
From an email sent out by somebody fairly high in my work's hierarchy. Pretty close to the top, actually.

Quote
For those that have asked and for others that are still wondering, a bollard is a post or protective safety guard/barrier, i.e., Goggle will provide a plethora of information and pictures. 
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Neutros the Radioactive Dragon on June 11, 2009, 08:09:50 PM
Beer goggles will do that too.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Noemon on June 11, 2009, 08:14:41 PM
The "goggle" bit was kind of funny, but it's just a typo; anybody could make it. The misuse of "i.e." was like fingernails on a chalkboard for me, though.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Neutros the Radioactive Dragon on June 11, 2009, 08:16:47 PM
Yeah. It seems kinda extraneous. i.e. You know?
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Noemon on June 11, 2009, 08:23:22 PM
:lol:  
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Noemon on June 18, 2009, 09:06:49 PM
I've talked before (probably in this thread) about one of my coworkers. He's constantly misusing words, creating cliche mashups, and the like. There are two of his (both of which he says all the time) that I've been meaning to post for ages. The first is "internet conductivity" (when he means "connectivity", of course), and the second is "sleep depredation" (when he means "deprivation").

Correcting him has absolutely no impact at all on future repetition of these gaffes.  
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on June 18, 2009, 09:09:30 PM
My boss many times talks about us "jumping over hoops". Which at least kind of still makes sense.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on June 18, 2009, 09:58:15 PM
Idioms are just another hurdle for him to jump through.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on June 18, 2009, 11:02:20 PM
Her. ;)
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on June 18, 2009, 11:49:29 PM
You know, I vacillated between the male and female pronoun, and in the end, just flipped a coin.  A virtual coin.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on June 19, 2009, 01:09:40 AM
I think it's funny because I am fairly certain this is not the first time we have had this same conversation about my boss. No reason you should remember she's a she -- I doubt you've ever met her! I just find it amusing.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Neutros the Radioactive Dragon on June 19, 2009, 07:04:05 AM
Yes. I find such errors entertaining as well. If I know the person cares, I mention it. If not, I just sit back and smile.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on June 29, 2009, 12:00:51 PM
One of my coworkers just scanned an image for our designer and asked her what format she wanted the image in. The designer responded, "Uh, JPEG, TIFF, it's all the same." >.< Uh, no, it's not.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on June 29, 2009, 12:05:25 PM
Somebody should recommend that to maintain image integrity, your designer needs to save each version as a separate .jpg, and then re-load it from the .jpg each step.  
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on June 29, 2009, 12:06:45 PM
I think it'd be better to avoid JPEGs altogether and use something with lossless compression, like a TIFF.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on June 29, 2009, 12:12:02 PM
Um, I was saying that he should change his workflow so that he was essentially only working with jpgs, so that each step new JPEG artifacts would come and multiply on top of the ones from other steps. <_<
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on June 29, 2009, 12:24:29 PM
So that after only a few changes, the images start looking like absolute crud? Sounds good to me.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: pooka on June 29, 2009, 12:45:45 PM
Except he'd remember you were the one who recommended it.  The lesson learned would not be that jpgs are bad, but that you are.  
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on June 29, 2009, 12:46:50 PM
Well, that's a useful thing to know, no?
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on June 29, 2009, 12:50:32 PM
Quote
So that after only a few changes, the images start looking like absolute crud? Sounds good to me.
Bingo.  

Then he won't ask you that question anymore.  Hopefully.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: The Genuine on June 29, 2009, 01:23:03 PM
What about .png?  How does that compare to .tiff?

Isn't .png newer, smaller, and web-browseable?  What's the upside to .tiff?
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on June 29, 2009, 01:59:06 PM
First off, the designer is a she, not a he. Second, I wasn't the one doing the scanning. I just overheard the conversation. Third, PNG does not support CMYK color spaces. We don't need something web-browsable, but printable.  
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on July 01, 2009, 04:15:19 PM
And now, for the shockingly racist quote of the day:
Quote
Another surprise in table 1 was the high self-esteem reported among the Mexican LDS students, especially on positive items. . . . We have no reasonable explanation for this cultural difference. We actually anticipated that the LDS Mexican students would have lower self-esteem than other LDS students. Perhaps the Mexican [high school] seniors compare themselves to other Mexican students rather than to American youth and feel pretty good about themselves.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: sweet clementine on July 01, 2009, 04:36:37 PM
wow! What the heck is that?
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on July 01, 2009, 05:18:24 PM
It's from a book on the influence of religion on LDS youth.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on July 01, 2009, 05:30:20 PM
>.<  
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on July 01, 2009, 08:50:55 PM
Maybe they are too ignorant to understand that they are supposed to feel inferior to white people.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on July 01, 2009, 09:12:49 PM
Apparently so.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Annie Subjunctive on July 01, 2009, 10:44:24 PM
People like this are being published?
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: sarcasticmuppet on July 02, 2009, 06:34:50 AM
Well, with Stephanie Meyers as a benchmark...
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on July 02, 2009, 08:20:32 AM
One of our English instructors shared an email with me from a student protesting their grade of "B", which includes such memorable phrases as "with all do respect".

 :peek:  
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on July 02, 2009, 08:35:14 AM
Quote
People like this are being published?
Sadly, yes, though I should point out that we'll be deleting most of what I quoted.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: pooka on July 02, 2009, 12:01:32 PM
I still haven't figured out how they measure self esteem, exactly.  I think there are people who get doctoral degrees in that stuff, but it doesn't sound like you are dealing with one of them.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on July 02, 2009, 12:16:45 PM
There are psychometric tests (http://www.wwnorton.com/college/psych/psychsci/media/rosenberg.htm) that the researcher can use.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Farmgirl on August 28, 2009, 07:22:52 AM
Overheard from our conference room right behind me just a few minutes ago:

(This conference room is filled with some of our upper level IT people, a couple upper level bank execs and some information security folks.   It's a conference call - I'm assuming with some vendor);

Person on other end of phone (sounds young-ish) says:
 "I have a tendency to talk really fast and go through this quickly — most IT people dig that. But if you can't keep up, shout out.  We will cut through the marketing crap and get to just the IT stuff."

Okay - so we're IT people, true, but with execs in there wouldn't you think a bidding company would talk a bit more professionally that that?  Dig? Crap? What in the world?
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on August 28, 2009, 09:12:10 AM
I hate to say this, but I'm guessing the other end of the call was in California . . .
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: pooka on September 14, 2009, 03:32:02 PM
Quote
   *  Chartreuse green carpeting will lead the way to the Medical & Scientific Pavilion
    * Burnt orange carpet will be present throughout the Frame and Accessories area
    * Teal carpeting with be the pathway to The Lenses & Processing Technology Pavilion
    * The Galleria will maintain its bright refreshing pink carpeting.
To be fair, in the emails the carpet colors are color coded.  But burnt orange carpet?
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on September 14, 2009, 03:41:41 PM
I was just noticing this morning, looking at car colors.

The 70s are back. Only SHINY!
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on September 14, 2009, 08:46:34 PM
The 70's?  Fake wood paneling on the station wagons?

-o-

Pooka, oy!
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on September 14, 2009, 09:37:00 PM
Ok, 70s kitchen colors. Avocado, burnt sienna, almond.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on September 14, 2009, 10:11:21 PM
Avocado and maize!  What the heck happened in the 70's that made everyone have to have an avocado refrigerator and a maize dishwasher?

It may be related to the Government putting fluoride in the municipal water supply.

Although it was kind of cool to ride around in a station wagon that was pretending to be carved out of a block of wood.  It was like you were in a Pinewood Derby.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on September 14, 2009, 10:24:44 PM
I should get some fake wood paneling for my station wagon.

(http://img-77.carmax.com/Images/Gallery/5/77/577-1-555-946b1862.jpg)
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on September 14, 2009, 10:30:51 PM
I got myself a used TV set a few weeks ago that has that fake wood grain on it.  And little knobs for vertical hold, horizontal hold, color, brightness and picture.  And built-in rabbit ears that telescope out of the top.

However, it doesn't show episodes of Welcome Back Kotter or The Odd Couple or Happy Days or any of those other woodgrain-era shows.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on September 14, 2009, 10:34:08 PM
Quote
(http://img-77.carmax.com/Images/Gallery/5/77/577-1-555-946b1862.jpg)
Nah, more like:

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_i_AovfzNXgQ/SHlVXCeiFxI/AAAAAAAATGk/RXYWfb8ZRhE/s400/IMG_5893.jpg)
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on September 14, 2009, 10:55:20 PM
Quote
I should get some fake wood paneling for my station wagon.
No, you should get some real wood paneling.   That would be awesome.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on September 14, 2009, 11:07:51 PM
(http://www.2fords.net/johnspages/WonderfulWoodies/images/48Ford-Woody-Wagon.jpg)
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on September 14, 2009, 11:09:16 PM
Quote
Avocado and maize!  What the heck happened in the 70's that made everyone have to have an avocado refrigerator and a maize dishwasher?
No clue. I grew up with kitchens those colors all around me, and I still haven't recovered from the trauma. ;)
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on September 14, 2009, 11:15:21 PM
Our telephones were avocado and maize.  Avocado was the new black and maize was the new white.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: pooka on September 15, 2009, 06:35:44 AM
Quote
Although it was kind of cool to ride around in a station wagon that was pretending to be carved out of a block of wood. It was like you were in a Pinewood Derby.
:lol:  
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on September 15, 2009, 09:20:55 AM
Quote
Nah, more like:

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_i_AovfzNXgQ/SHlVXCeiFxI/AAAAAAAATGk/RXYWfb8ZRhE/s400/IMG_5893.jpg)
But my car looks like the picture I posted (except that it's navy blue instead of dark green). Though when I'm done with it it might look more like your picture.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: The Genuine on September 15, 2009, 10:04:39 AM
Why did old-skool bumpers have those two prongs jutting out in front?  Was the idea that if you rear-ended someone you could do extra damage to the car in front?
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on September 15, 2009, 10:13:26 AM
To the contrary. They absorbed some of the impact, by deforming and/or crumpling, IIRC.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: The Genuine on September 15, 2009, 12:25:46 PM
So why not still use 'em?
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Annie Subjunctive on September 15, 2009, 01:03:50 PM
Because the more damage you do to your car, the more likely you are to have to buy a new one.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on September 15, 2009, 01:09:24 PM
No. Because more recent bumpers do something similar with (again, IIRC) internal springs.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Ajar on September 15, 2009, 02:38:52 PM
Quote
Labels should be removed from performance reviews. The impersonality of labels is extremely demotivating.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on September 15, 2009, 09:45:19 PM
Huh?
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on September 16, 2009, 10:02:52 AM
This is the title of an actual journal article published in the Journal of Psychopharmacology: "Self-medication with alcohol appears not to be an effective treatment for the control of depression."
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: pooka on September 16, 2009, 05:56:22 PM
They change the style of bumpers to help you know which cars are old and which are new.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on September 30, 2009, 12:37:40 PM
Quote
What is written here is the result of many years of ponderous and solemn thought. . . .
Ponderous is a word I would tend to avoid in describing my own writings and thoughts.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on September 30, 2009, 12:41:38 PM
Are you pondering what I'm pondering?
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on September 30, 2009, 12:42:49 PM
I think so, Brain, but where are we going to find rubber pants our size?
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: sweet clementine on September 30, 2009, 01:37:02 PM
:lol:
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Annie Subjunctive on September 30, 2009, 08:00:54 PM
I fink so, Brain. But if they called 'em Sad Meals, kids wouldn't buy 'em.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on October 09, 2009, 11:58:20 AM
One of my coworkers was talking about how much she loves chai tea and how it's okay because it's totally herbal and doesn't have any real tea in it. :erm:  
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on October 09, 2009, 12:01:26 PM
Turn her on to Celestial Seasonings Bengal Spice Tea (http://www.celestialseasonings.com/products/detail.html/herbal-teas/bengal-spice).  All the herbal, spicy chai goodness without the tea.

Oh, and make sure you get her recommend card confiscated.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on October 09, 2009, 12:03:53 PM
Now I wonder if she was talking about something like that, even though she did repeatedly call it chai.

I should probably sic the Honor Code Office on her just to be safe.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on October 09, 2009, 12:34:33 PM
Quote
Now I wonder if she was talking about something like that, even though she did repeatedly call it chai.
Very possible. I know some non-Mormons who are only familiar with herbal chai and were surprised when I told them the most common tea called that was real tea.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on October 09, 2009, 12:48:58 PM
Quote
I should probably sic the Honor Code Office on her just to be safe.
::nods::
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Annie Subjunctive on October 09, 2009, 04:23:59 PM
Rooibos Chai (http://www.luckyvitamin.com/item/itemKey/74351?utm_source=googlebase&utm_medium=fpl&utm_term=OrganicIndiaTulsiTeaRedChaiMasala18TeaBags&utm_content=74351&utm_campaign=googlebase&site=google_base)! Rocks my little world.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on November 02, 2009, 03:24:49 PM
Quote
It has long been a fundamental tenant of our consulting philosophy
BZZ! Thanks for playing, but I think we'll stick with companies that speak English goodly.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on December 21, 2009, 10:21:14 AM
Recent post on my listserve:

Quote
We had a mother call and yell at us because:

1.   The diploma we issued to her son looks so cheap.
2.   It won’t fit in the frame she purchased from the school bookstore

After further conversation and yelling we managed to determine that the diploma she had for her son was 8 ½ x 11 and did not have a colored seal. Our real diploma is 12 x 15 and has a multicolored seal. We looked up the student and he is 2 credits short.

I have heard of forging a transcript, but giving it to your mother!

BUSTED!
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: sweet clementine on December 21, 2009, 10:35:07 AM
oh SNAP!
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on December 21, 2009, 10:38:47 AM
That's awesome!
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Brinestone on December 21, 2009, 11:39:11 AM
Hahahaha!
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Annie Subjunctive on January 14, 2010, 12:09:32 PM
"The population was 82% minority..."

I know we can use "minority" to mean something that doesn't necessarily mean "minority" but I still thought this was funny to read.

Also, is this sentence grammatical? I can't quite figure out how it fits together: "Enjoy Dasani with a splash of natural flavor essence, like fresh fruit is squeezed into every bottle."
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: BlackBlade on January 14, 2010, 01:12:49 PM
In regards to a prize horse who had fallen through ice and was proving difficult to haul out, "I just knew that if we didn't get him out, we were gonna lose that horse."

Also I'm late but the kid with the fake diploma gets props for originality.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on January 14, 2010, 02:03:32 PM
Annie, I'd lose the "is".

Quote
the kid with the fake diploma gets props for originality.
Sadly, as further discussion on the listserv proved, nope.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Annie Subjunctive on January 14, 2010, 02:46:09 PM
Quote
Annie, I'd lose the "is".
I didn't write it - I just read it on the bottle of water I was drinking. At work.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on January 14, 2010, 03:51:47 PM
I know.

I was answering your question.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Annie Subjunctive on January 14, 2010, 05:13:21 PM
I was trying to figure out what they actually meant by leaving the "is" in there.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on January 14, 2010, 05:35:50 PM
That they don't have an editor with sufficient authority on their marketing team. :P
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on January 14, 2010, 06:05:52 PM
Quote
I was trying to figure out what they actually meant by leaving the "is" in there.
Serving as the verb of the subordinate clause introduced by "like"?

I'm not seeing what's ungrammatical about it, though I think it is a little clumsy. I'd probably write, "Enjoy Dasani with a splash of natural flavor essence, as if fresh fruit was squeezed into every bottle."

Edit: Actually, I think that's still pretty clumsy. But that's how I'd rewrite it with a minimum of changes.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: sweet clementine on January 14, 2010, 06:26:16 PM
I think they meant it like this "Enjoy Dasani with a splash of natural flavor essence; it's like fresh fruit is squeezed into every bottle."
but they used a comma and forgot the "it's"
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on January 14, 2010, 08:46:18 PM
I'll skip the Dasani altogether; I don't want a splash of natural flavor essence.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Annie Subjunctive on January 15, 2010, 05:33:45 AM
There's poor kids in Africa who don't even get a splash of natural flavor essence.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Scott R on January 15, 2010, 06:07:58 AM
When I was a kid, we used to dream of natural flavor essence...
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Scott R on January 15, 2010, 06:13:14 AM
Quote
The whole idea of a self-help guru is an odd one.  If the idea is to help myself, why do I need to buy your book?
I know that this is a really old quote-- Porter is probably dead and buried by now-- but this cracked me up.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on January 15, 2010, 06:31:51 AM
Wow.  That is old.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on February 03, 2010, 03:35:26 PM
From work last night, a patient was complaining to the nurse that she was cold, and asked what the temperature was in the room.

"It's fine.  It's room temperature in here."

I love that.  No matter what the temperature of the room, it's room temperature.  After the nurse went out, I went in with an extra blanket.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: The Genuine on February 04, 2010, 01:07:14 PM
Who likes to sleep at room temperature?
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: sweet clementine on February 04, 2010, 02:45:53 PM
me
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: The Genuine on February 04, 2010, 05:35:11 PM
Really?  Most people I know prefer it cold, so they can kick the blankets off or stick their feet out or something.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on February 04, 2010, 07:57:50 PM
I prefer warm.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: BlackBlade on February 04, 2010, 08:40:27 PM
I love it freezing, assuming of course I have plenty of nice warm coverings on the bed.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on March 10, 2010, 10:20:03 AM
The other day one of my coworkers, who is working as a writing tutor for one of our director's classes, came across this gem in a student paper:

Quote
David O'McKay

We all had a good laugh at that.


(For those who don't know, David O. McKay was an LDS prophet a few decades ago.)
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: BlackBlade on March 10, 2010, 11:04:51 AM
I kinda like O'McKay.  It takes a Scottish sounding name and makes it Irish.  Scots-Irish?  
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on March 10, 2010, 11:44:37 AM
Mac/Mc can be either Irish or Scottish, as I understand it. I think O' is exclusively Irish.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: The Genuine on March 10, 2010, 11:52:12 AM
I knew Mc could be Scotch as well as Irish, but I didn't know Mac could be Irish as well as Scotch.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on March 10, 2010, 12:15:02 PM
The Mc/Mac distinction is a myth.

link (http://www.scottishhistory.com/articles/misc/macvsmc.html)

link (http://www.houseofnames.com/xq/asp/sId./kbId.95/title.Mac,+Mc+prefix/qx/knowledgebase.htm)

And just so you know, the preferred term is Scottish or Scots, not Scotch. That's considered outdated and mildly offensive.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: TomDavidson on March 10, 2010, 12:37:49 PM
I like McO'Kay better, personally.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on March 10, 2010, 12:57:51 PM
O'Mckayahanoshaunosea.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on March 10, 2010, 01:00:44 PM
Back when my ma was working in the NYC public schools, the schools chancellor was Harold O. Levy.  It always cracked her the heck up when she saw it written as Harold O'Levy.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on April 08, 2010, 12:26:07 PM
While proofreading a book, I've come across some awesome old obituary titles from the Deseret News in the late 1800s and early 1900s:

“Funeral Rites Set Friday for Mrs. Crow”
“Last Call Comes to Early Settler of Utah”
“Judge Charles S. Zane Called Suddenly by Death”
“Hyrum Goff Is Called by Death”
“Death of Mrs. Goff: Estimable West Jordan Woman Passes to the Great Beyond”

And my very favorite:
“Death’s Sorrowful Work: Alice Lambert Peart Passes from This Mortal Sphere”
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on May 04, 2010, 02:42:25 PM
Quote
One of those images, taken in 1849 or 1850, shows him in a fine suit, clean-shaven with thick dark hair and penetrating but soft eyes.
Like being stabbed with a teddy bear, I'd imagine.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on May 04, 2010, 03:20:22 PM
:lol:  
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: dkw on May 13, 2010, 07:29:35 AM
"rectification for the sake of the restoration of a state of rectitude."

 
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: BlackBlade on May 13, 2010, 07:36:40 AM
Quote
"rectification for the sake of the restoration of a state of rectitude."
For the sake of the restoration of a state of rectitude for the sake of the restoration of a state of rectitude for the sake of the restoration of a state of rectitude for the sake of the restoration of a state of rectitude for the sake of the restoration of a state of rectitude for the sake of the restoration of a state of rectitude for the sake of the restoration of a state of rectitude for the sake of the restoration of a state of rectitude for the sake of the restoration of a state of rectitude for the sake of the restoration of a state of rectitude for the sake of the restoration of a state of rectitude for the sake of the restoration of a state of rectitude for the sake of the restoration of a state of rectitude for the sake of the restoration of a state of rectitude for the sake of the restoration of a state of rectitude for the sake of the restoration of a state of rectitude for the sake of the restoration of a state of rectitude.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Annie Subjunctive on May 16, 2010, 10:48:28 PM
Quote
We in the 21st century live in the digital age, thanks to the emergence and rapid
development of personal computers and other digital technology in the latter half
of the 20th century. The old sound spectrograph of the 1940’s1 has given way to
digital signal processing, just as phonograph records and other analog products
gave way to the digital revolution. Today, besides computers and software/hardware
for computer installation, other digital offerings include digital cameras and
camcorders; digital cell(ular) phones; DAT recorders (DAT = digital audio tape);
digital voice recorders (replacing micro-cassette recorders); checkbook-sized
e-dictionaries; PDA’s (personal digital assistant) and other handheld devices (or
“handhelds”) for retrieving email, reading an e-book, surfing the web, etc.; music
store-and-play formats such as “mp3”; full-size and portable CD- and DVD-disk
players; digital television, including HDTV, and the digital cable, satellites and
satellite dish-antennas that deliver it to our homes, offices, and vehicles; digital
home cinema; and of course, the digital projectors of business and academia, to
name just a few. And for research, teaching and learning, to facilitate search and
retrieval, a number of digital library projects2—some already accessible online—
have been working at digitizing and archiving textual- and sound-materials
(including music and spoken language data), as well as video and film media for
easy search and retrieval. The World Wide Web alone (WWW, or ‘The Web’)
offers an incredible array of resources and information (some of which may
require subscription or password registration), including online newspapers and
magazines, online dictionaries and encyclopedias, academic e-journal articles,
archived e-texts and sound-files, and more. Whereas in the mid-1990s there was
only a handful of Chinese-language programs available online, it is unusual today,
in 2003, to find any major Chinese program or association which is not represented
on the Web.

Really? Did you really need to tell us all of that? And in your introduction? Did you need to include the extra parentheticals as you talked about cell(ular) phones, other handheld devices (or “handhelds”) and World Wide Web (WWW, or ‘The Web’)? Not only was that so tedious and unnecessary as to make me dread finishing your paper; I'm pretty sure I don't want to read anything else you've ever written.  
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Annie Subjunctive on May 16, 2010, 10:50:42 PM
Let me edit it for you:

Quote
We in the 21st century live in the digital age, thanks to the emergence and rapid
development of personal computers and other digital technology in the latter half
of the 20th century. The old sound spectrograph of the 1940’s has given way to
digital signal processing, just as phonograph records and other analog products
gave way to the digital revolution. This new technology has had a profound impact
on the way we are able to analyze and study tone production of speakers of
Mandarin Chinese.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Annie Subjunctive on May 16, 2010, 10:57:58 PM
Bah! She never shuts up!

Quote
For instance, my own Morrow Micro Decision computer—
purchased in Seattle for one thousand, five hundred 1982 U.S. dollars—was an
8-bit, Z-80, 4 Mhz desktop computer with 64K memory and a CP/ M 2.2 operating
system, strictly text-based, with no “Graphic User Interface” or GUI, meaning no
little icons to drag about; its pre-LED (light-emitting-diode) phosphor screen was
monochrome green, and each of the two built-in 5-1/4” floppy-disc drives held a
total of only 200 KB, or about 1/6 of what the formatted and now obsolescent
floppy-disk would later on come to hold.9 No hard drive, no external storage. It did
have a full-stroke keyboard, but could only “beep”: there was no “sound card.”10
Furthermore, there were no ports for headphone jack, line-in, or microphone. And
as you might imagine, that little computer had no graphics or video support, nor
did it have an internal or external fax-modem.11 The early CP/M and DOS-based
desktop computers without a sound card could not be used for speech analysis and,
from there, harness speech technology for language teaching.

Quote
Due to limitations of space,
only a few aspects of Mandarin Chinese structure will be highlighted, but that
should suffice to demonstrate the usefulness of the software under discussion.

Because I used up all my space describing every digital object known to man.

On the other hand, this is helpful to know. If you ever would like to be published in the Journal of the Chinese Language Teachers' Association, apparently they publish anything.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on May 16, 2010, 11:52:24 PM
And they pay by the word!
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: dkw on May 17, 2010, 04:37:04 PM
Heh.  I had one of those the other day.

"Can you help me edit my presentation, it's way too long."

Well, lets just take out everything that's not even remotely related to your topic, that should cut it by about a third.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on May 19, 2010, 11:12:30 AM
The opening line from one of the articles from our Student Symposium a few years back:

Quote
The Tower of Babel destroyed almost all hope of coming to a consensus of what love really means.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on May 21, 2010, 10:41:50 AM
:lol:  
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Annie Subjunctive on May 22, 2010, 12:37:16 AM
Quote
The opening line from one of the articles from our Student Symposium a few years back:

Quote
The Tower of Babel destroyed almost all hope of coming to a consensus of what love really means.
Do they then launch into the Sapir Whorf hypothesis?
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on May 22, 2010, 09:21:58 AM
No, but that might have been interesting. Instead it was just a bad lead-in. Here's another awful one from a book called Finding God at BYU:

Quote
Choices are made every day by people. A young child decides whether to eat a cookie after being told not to touch the cookie jar. A teenager decides whether to join a gang, smoke, or drink alcohol. A young man or woman tries to determine what the meaning of life is. This story is about the choice that I made to attend Brigham Young University and how my choice to come to Provo was instrumental in my quest to discover a whole new life.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on May 22, 2010, 11:25:58 PM
>.<
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: BlackBlade on May 23, 2010, 07:40:45 AM
Quote
No, but that might have been interesting. Instead it was just a bad lead-in. Here's another awful one from a book called Finding God at BYU:

Quote
Choices are made every day by people. A young child decides whether to eat a cookie after being told not to touch the cookie jar. A teenager decides whether to join a gang, smoke, or drink alcohol. A young man or woman tries to determine what the meaning of life is. This story is about the choice that I made to attend Brigham Young University and how my choice to come to Provo was instrumental in my quest to discover a whole new life.
Every time I want to be condescending towards folks at BYU for being dummies, I always get this nagging thought in the back of my head that says something like, "You didn't get into BYU."

I have not identified if that is the sensible part of my brain that stops me from becoming a jerk, or if God is personally chiding me.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on June 03, 2010, 10:07:34 AM
Alluding to Matthew 7:3–5, about failing to notice the beam in one's own eye:

Quote
In these verses, Christ is warning his disciples not only of the deceptive nature of others but also of the self-deceptive nature of beams.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: BlackBlade on June 03, 2010, 10:21:54 AM
Quote
Alluding to Matthew 7:3–5, about failing to notice the beam in one's own eye:

Quote
In these verses, Christ is warning his disciples not only of the deceptive nature of others but also of the self-deceptive nature of beams.
That should be grounds for immediate excommunication.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Annie Subjunctive on June 03, 2010, 05:12:18 PM
That's the best thing I've read all day.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: pooka on June 04, 2010, 09:29:44 AM
I can see what they were trying to say, but failed to.  I'm afraid my writing might be like that.

Looking at it again, the biggest problem I see in that quote is that Christ isn't talking about the deceptive nature of others.  But let me check Bible Gateway.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Brinestone on June 04, 2010, 11:15:29 AM
Do beams deceive themselves?
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on June 04, 2010, 11:36:56 AM
Apparently so.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: pooka on June 04, 2010, 01:14:04 PM
Well, right, that's the first thing you notice, but the beam is a metaphor for self deception.  Looking past that, the deception of others is not the primary impact of the verse.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Annie Subjunctive on June 08, 2010, 09:27:58 PM
I had my students interview each other today and I was particularly tickled by their answers to this question:

Quote
What would you do if you were king of the world?

Kill the person who don't like me.
Help poor people.
Build things for people.
Travel the world.
Sleep every day.
To make every one be a rich.
Don't care to eat, and happy forever.
If I was king I would like to eat people.
I will make everybody relax all the time.
I want to help many no house's people find a home.
Travel around the world.
Help all old man.
Eat all delicious.
I will make the world happily and safely, and everyone shares the stuff to each other.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on June 08, 2010, 09:29:29 PM
:lol:  
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: BlackBlade on June 09, 2010, 07:22:43 AM
:cool:

My favorite was the "help all old man" one.  It's very Asian.
Title: Quotes from work
Post by: Annie Subjunctive on June 09, 2010, 08:13:03 AM
I'm a fan of making everyone relax all the time.

"Relax already! I SAID RELAX!"
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on June 13, 2010, 01:42:58 PM
I like "eat all delicious".
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: eslaine on June 13, 2010, 01:44:21 PM
Wow. Even in Firefox, Annie has a HUGE sig.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on June 13, 2010, 01:50:00 PM
I seem to remember the same thing happening on Sake when it moved to SMF.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on June 13, 2010, 01:56:19 PM
Yup. It's because "size = x" has VERY different things in the two. Expect all "tiny" text in old posts to have the same issue.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Annie Subjunctive on June 13, 2010, 05:19:49 PM
Really? It's not huge to me... and I'm using Firefox
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Neutros the Radioactive Dragon on June 13, 2010, 05:28:59 PM
I was when I was using FF. And it's fixed now.  :p
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on June 13, 2010, 06:12:42 PM
Really? It's not huge to me... and I'm using Firefox

That's because I already fixed it.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Annie Subjunctive on June 14, 2010, 06:04:26 PM
My American coworker (the American American one) just read aloud some news to me - "Looks like Iran's sending aid ships to Gaza."

(at least he and I have some political common ground - this was one of them we discovered)

"Oh man," I replied.

"Yeah, glad I'm in Taiwan," he said.

"Far away from any sort of political turmoil?" I giggled.

"Yeah," he said matter-of-factly. "All I have to worry about is China, I guess."

It took a few minutes to realize that I was being dark humorish but he wasn't.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Annie Subjunctive on June 16, 2010, 09:10:21 PM
"What is something you hope? Why?"

"I hope to be a good drummer. Because play drum can make me more handsome."

.
.

"How would you explain to a friend who asked 'What is salsa music?'"

"hoot music."
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Neutros the Radioactive Dragon on June 16, 2010, 09:14:39 PM
You know, that's what all the chicks say about drummers. And guitarists. And vocalists. Stupid drummers. Stupid guitarists and vocalists. Stupid. <_<
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Annie Subjunctive on June 16, 2010, 10:31:27 PM
Sorry - one more. It's actually very well-written. The last sentence is what's cute -

"Young people like listening to music that are different rhythms playing at different tempos. The roots of classic music are very diverse and some of people like listening to classic music. Many people play different genres of music from their mind."
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Annie Subjunctive on June 22, 2010, 10:24:57 PM
Only because they're cute sweethearts:

How would your life change if you were deaf?

If I were deaf, my life will turn more dare. I will meet the challenge, and figure out them one by one. First, I will learn finger language and communication is not a obstructing.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Annie Subjunctive on June 22, 2010, 10:27:30 PM
Would you rather be deaf or blind? Why?

I would rather be blind. Eyes can't see anything. But my hears can listen to all of voice.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: dkw on June 27, 2010, 06:31:59 PM
The prof I edit for uses "one" as a reflexive pronoun.  At least once per manuscript, in addition to changing it, I put a comment on the fact that it is an indefinite pronoun and can't be used that way, but he keeps doing it
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Scott R on June 28, 2010, 04:19:09 AM
dkw, people tend to ignore my helpful edits, too.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: dkw on June 28, 2010, 09:21:36 AM
It's not quite that bad, he always accepts the change.  It just frustrates me that he doesn't remember when he writes the next thing. 
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Annie Subjunctive on June 28, 2010, 08:01:13 PM
What is the place like?
Many ice cover the world but not many.

What is it like when he goes down into the crevasse?
There is very beautiful like a heave.

Why does he say "the world isn't supposed to look like this?" (1:55)
Because the world isn't supposed to look like this.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on June 29, 2010, 01:09:05 PM
The prof I edit for uses "one" as a reflexive pronoun.  At least once per manuscript, in addition to changing it, I put a comment on the fact that it is an indefinite pronoun and can't be used that way, but he keeps doing it

Any chance he's just accepting all your changes without actually looking at them?
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: dkw on June 29, 2010, 02:34:21 PM
Probably.  I hope he does read the comments, though.

Having thought more about it, it's possible that he had already written this manuscript by the time he got my comments on the last one.  The man churns out books like they were grocery lists.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on July 08, 2010, 02:20:54 PM
Quote
In an 1845 letter written from Great Britain to his father, Aphek, he commented on his commitment to Mormonism.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Brinestone on July 08, 2010, 04:24:31 PM
"Great Britain, I am your father."
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on July 09, 2010, 11:32:57 AM
Quote
Johnson became a member of the Council on 26 March and may have been the only meeting he attended with Woodruff, so it plausible that Woodruff simply forgot Johnson was present on that occasion or he may have believed he was dead.

There are just so many things wrong here.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on July 09, 2010, 12:37:18 PM
Good golly.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on July 09, 2010, 12:44:34 PM
Quote
During the Prophet's ministry, the Holy Order met semi-regularly for special prayer meetings, discuss doctrine and revelations and to initiate additional members into that Holy Order.

Again: so many things wrong here. And can anyone explain to me just how often "semi-regularly" is?
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on July 09, 2010, 12:54:10 PM
Somewhere between regularly and irregularly. ;)

More fiber might help.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on July 09, 2010, 02:14:22 PM
Quote
Wilford Woodruff was personally involved, not as a detached observer, but as a participant, both as an actor in the event deeply affected by the events

Kill me now.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on July 09, 2010, 02:23:20 PM
::kills Jonathon::
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on July 09, 2010, 02:23:43 PM
::resuscitates Jonathon::
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on July 09, 2010, 02:32:52 PM
Thanks!
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: BlackBlade on July 09, 2010, 06:01:29 PM
*kills Jonathan*

Whoops, sorry, I was already committed to my motion when Tante killed and resuscitated you.  She was that fast.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on July 10, 2010, 06:58:36 PM
:resuscitates Jonathon again:
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Scott R on July 14, 2010, 04:25:00 AM
After an email exchange in which one of the project managers decided that she was to be the single point of contact to a particularly difficult-to-deal-with client:

"We are beholding to you."
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on July 14, 2010, 07:43:20 AM
I have a colleague who, when she means to say "an awful lot" says either, "like a banshee" or "like gangbusters".  I keep a straight face, so as not to be obnoxious, but I get the oddest mental pictures when she says that her husband was snoring like a banshee or that her children eat pickles like gangbusters.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: BlackBlade on July 14, 2010, 07:48:22 AM
She sounds like my mom.  My mother is notorious for wrenching phrases until they are almost unrecognizable.  Some of her classic ones, that she still has been known to say from time to time:

"He's always got a crank up his arm."

"I feel like I'm in a three ring side show."

"She's off her whack."

Bonus points for proper translations of all three.

Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Scott R on July 14, 2010, 07:57:14 AM
1. Stick up his keister.
2. Three ring circus
3. Off her medication.  Or chum.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Annie Subjunctive on July 14, 2010, 08:32:26 AM
3. out of whack
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Scott R on July 14, 2010, 08:43:35 AM
Oh, right.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: dkw on July 14, 2010, 10:52:25 AM
Tante, I don't think "like a banshee" in your example means "an awful lot."  I've heard it in reference to snoring, and I'm pretty sure it refers to the fact that banshees are known for their loud obnoxious noise.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: BlackBlade on July 14, 2010, 03:37:37 PM
1: "Prank up his sleeve."

2: Correct, "Three ring circus."

3: Actually, it's two phrases that mean the same thing, "Off Her Rocker." and "Out of Whack."
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: dkw on July 15, 2010, 08:49:45 PM
"A discourse of Orient creates orientalism by orientalizing. "
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on July 15, 2010, 09:01:48 PM
Well, I certainly can't argue with that!
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Annie Subjunctive on July 15, 2010, 09:23:44 PM
They were serious? What were they trying to say?
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on July 15, 2010, 09:30:26 PM
I'm not sure, but I think they were disoriented. Or should be. :P
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: BlackBlade on July 15, 2010, 11:04:14 PM
I'm not sure, but I think they were disoriented. Or should be. :P
Occidentally, your comment wasn't very funny. ;)
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Annie Subjunctive on July 16, 2010, 12:22:15 AM
If I got fired and sent home, would that be me getting disoriented?
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on July 16, 2010, 12:50:43 AM
Since you're not British, yes.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: dkw on July 16, 2010, 06:47:21 AM
Yes, it was serious. 

Since it's in a chapter dealing with post-colonial theory I assume it refers to the idea that "The Orient" is a western construction projected onto Asian countries.  The (lack of) context surrounding the sentence wouldn't get you there if you weren't already familiar with that argument, though.

Also  :D at BB.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on July 16, 2010, 10:30:11 AM
Quote
The use of these metaphors makes the differences immediately, emphatically clear, and vivid and concise, using far fewer words.

I deleted those last four words.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: BlackBlade on July 16, 2010, 06:31:04 PM
Quote
The use of these metaphors makes the differences immediately, emphatically clear, and vivid and concise, using far fewer words.

I deleted those last four words.
I'm sure you would have been remiss if you hadn't.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Annie Subjunctive on July 18, 2010, 11:05:36 PM
My favorite thing about my school is: "has a strict ethos. a broad field there are many amiable teachers."

Dear students: believe it or not, but I can tell when you use google translate.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Annie Subjunctive on July 18, 2010, 11:16:24 PM
This one is just cute:

"Play the piano can make me feel happy. Reading always let my brain full of fantasy feeling."
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: BlackBlade on July 19, 2010, 12:08:13 AM
This one is just cute:

"Play the piano can make me feel happy. Reading always let my brain full of fantasy feeling."
I'm sure this is how my Chinese reads when I turn in my homework to my teachers.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on July 19, 2010, 11:52:39 AM
From the Q&A section of the Chicago Manual of Style web site (http://www.chicagomanualofstyle.org/CMS_FAQ/new/new_questions01.html):

Quote
Q. Can I use the first person?

A. Evidently.

 :D
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on July 19, 2010, 02:13:04 PM
 :D
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Scott R on July 20, 2010, 06:27:23 AM
That's brilliant!
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on July 20, 2010, 02:08:09 PM
Quote
Soured by bitter consequences, God's character is often maligned by distraught humans.

Terrible on so many levels.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on July 20, 2010, 03:52:42 PM
That one is painful.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Annie Subjunctive on July 20, 2010, 04:54:43 PM
You'd write like that too if your God was soured by bitter consequences.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on July 20, 2010, 05:54:41 PM
You mean, "if He were", right? ;)
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Annie Subjunctive on July 20, 2010, 06:25:44 PM
You'd write like that too were your God soured by bitter consequences, like taking Taiwanese English tests.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on July 20, 2010, 06:39:01 PM
Exactly!
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on July 20, 2010, 08:33:50 PM
He wasn't soured, His character was.  The bitter consequences soured His character.

I think it might read better if His character was embittered by sour consequences.  Maybe they could throw in some salty language and sweet vengence.  And umami.  Some umami would be nice.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: pooka on July 20, 2010, 09:07:13 PM
I saw a dangling modifier in a wikipedia article today.  It must have been the one about jade, since that is the only article on wikipedia that I read today.  I also had to refrain from editing in that Nephrite is even more related to kidneys than Jadeite.  Someone is supposedly meeting with my boss tomorrow about a jade trading opportunity so I was researching it.  Maybe I will get to try and explain the specific gravity test for lapidary jades as opposed to precious jades.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Annie Subjunctive on July 20, 2010, 09:21:25 PM
Don't you like how wikipedia makes you a minor expert on anything at a moment's notice?

Also, I almost edited wikipedia today when it said "farts" where it obviously meant "arts." But once again, laziness at having to register won out. Do you know how much of my wisdom has been lost to the world because I'm too lazy to register?
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on July 20, 2010, 09:29:56 PM
Register, shmegister. I edit Wikipedia all the time, and I'm not registered. Very few articles required you to be in order to edit.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Annie Subjunctive on July 23, 2010, 01:25:36 AM
Quote
If I could travel to another country it would be ______________ because ...

Canada. There is very beautiful and wonderful! The people is friendly and kind and there food is delicious.

Almost! Your dreams are almost accurate! Let's have poutine in class next week.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on July 23, 2010, 07:30:35 AM
 :D
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: pooka on July 23, 2010, 08:59:03 AM
Yeah, I think you need to be registered to create articles.  But anyone can edit wikipedia.  That's the whole point.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on July 29, 2010, 02:10:01 PM
Quote
Early cylinder-style phonographs were capable of recording sound.

They wouldn't have been very good phonographs if they weren't.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on July 29, 2010, 03:18:30 PM
Well, yeah, but I've had phonographs since I was a kid, and none of them recorded.  They just played records.
.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on July 29, 2010, 03:30:40 PM
Oh, duh. I don't know how I missed that.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Annie Subjunctive on July 29, 2010, 04:43:33 PM
Did anyone else have the Fisher Price record player? With those plastic records with little poky dots all over them that somehow actually worked? That was awesome.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on July 29, 2010, 07:46:52 PM
Oh, duh. I don't know how I missed that.
Probably because you were focused on the original meaning/etymology of the word, rather than modern usage?

Did anyone else have the Fisher Price record player? With those plastic records with little poky dots all over them that somehow actually worked? That was awesome.
My parents still have mine. It sort of even still works, I think.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on July 29, 2010, 10:23:24 PM
I had that record player, too.  I'm sure my parents haven't kept it.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: BlackBlade on July 29, 2010, 10:57:53 PM
Did anyone else have the Fisher Price record player? With those plastic records with little poky dots all over them that somehow actually worked? That was awesome.
I had it.  It worked along the same principle as a music box.  The records were also color coded.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on July 29, 2010, 11:01:52 PM
Oh, duh. I don't know how I missed that.
Probably because you were focused on the original meaning/etymology of the word, rather than modern usage?

Probably. Also, my coworker thought it was funny and pointed it out to me, so I was just thinking about how silly and tautological it sounded without actually stopping to think about it.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on August 03, 2010, 03:17:58 PM
I am currently reviewing comments (http://www.nasfaa.org/publications/2010/rnprmcomments080310.html) from NASFAA and ACE on currently proposed regulations from ED. My favorite line (in the 34 pages) has got to be from ACE's comments:
Quote
We believe that federal regulation based on anecdote is a very bad practice.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Annie Subjunctive on August 09, 2010, 01:08:52 AM
This is the best one I've read today:

Lily is a girl who loves to shop. One day, she forgot to take medicine. She went to a summer sale and bought a lot of clothes, t-shirts, dresses. It cost her about a million dollars. She used seventy of her credit cards. Then it was too heavy for Lily to carry them home. Therefore she called twenty-one taxis and sixty buses to drive her clothes home. On the way home, she was so generous that she gave thirty-two of her shirts to some panhandlers and beggers. She also bought seventy big closets and one huge closet to put her clothes. Then she took the medicine. Actually, it was her fancy daydream.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: BlackBlade on August 09, 2010, 01:23:00 AM
Note Lily didn't tip a single driver in her entourage though she gave some of her clothes to beggars.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on August 09, 2010, 01:54:27 AM
Quote from work tonight: "Just because I don't know stuff doesn't make me ignorant!"
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: BlackBlade on August 09, 2010, 02:10:37 AM
Quote from work tonight: "Just because I don't know stuff doesn't make me ignorant!"
It's true, maybe that stuff is just ignorant of her.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Scott R on August 09, 2010, 09:05:50 AM
Stuff would like to get to know you.  He's waiting downstairs with a grin and a tea-cozy.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on September 01, 2010, 01:34:41 PM
Our usual contract indexer really frustrates me sometimes. It seems like half the index is composed of junk entries for passing references to people or things or references to things in the endnotes. I came across this gem just now:

Quote
cows, skinning diseased, 172

Yes, that's right: the story about Wilford Woodruff skinning dead, diseased cattle and then getting sick and being healed deserves its own entry in the index.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Scott R on September 02, 2010, 04:24:44 AM
Under cows rather than healings?
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on September 02, 2010, 09:23:56 AM
Yup. It's only a paragraph-long story, so it's almost not worthy indexing, but my first thought would be to put it under something like "Woodruff, Wilford, healing of" or maybe just "healing". I just can't imagine that a lot of readers are going to think, "I wonder where that story about skinning diseased cows was . . . oh, here it is!"
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Annie Subjunctive on September 08, 2010, 09:51:04 PM
 I like dilicious food. Even I will be fat fat fat I still like.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Annie Subjunctive on September 08, 2010, 09:53:38 PM
I like to eat beef, cake and chocolate.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on September 09, 2010, 02:40:48 PM
I know that I usually hate language peeving, but I really hate the use of "indicate" to mean "say", as in "Elder Brown indicated that President David O. McKay wished to see Eldon." It always gives me the mental image of someone communicating solely through hand gestures and facial expressions.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: BlackBlade on September 09, 2010, 04:41:23 PM
Why does, "indicate" indicate nonverbal communication for you?

Sorry, the question is asked in all seriousness, but I couldn't resist writing it that way.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on September 09, 2010, 05:58:48 PM
Because most uses of indicate indicate some sort of indirect or nonverbal communication. Quite frequently it's a nonhuman doing the indicating, as in "Studies have indicated that people who use indicate to mean say are ten times more likely to be social deviants." I most often see indicate used to mean say in writing that is otherwise awkward or amateurish.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: BlackBlade on September 09, 2010, 06:19:39 PM
Because most uses of indicate indicate some sort of indirect or nonverbal communication. Quite frequently it's a nonhuman doing the indicating, as in "Studies have indicated that people who use indicate to mean say are ten times more likely to be social deviants." I most often see indicate used to mean say in writing that is otherwise awkward or amateurish.
Ah, I see.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Annie Subjunctive on September 09, 2010, 07:40:55 PM
I read a really great passage in Bleak House last night. Esther was talking to Mr. Guppy, who works for lawyers and is very meticulous about things being said correctly.

Quote
“You were so good as to imply, on that occasion—”

“Excuse me, miss,” said Mr Guppy, “but we had better not travel out of the record into implication. I cannot admit that I implied anything.”

“You said on that occasion,” I recommenced, “that you might possibly have the means of advancing my interests and promoting my fortunes by making discoveries of which I should be the subject."
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Annie Subjunctive on September 09, 2010, 07:41:32 PM
Oh, I guess that was "imply," not "indicate." But I enjoyed it nonetheless.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: The Genuine on September 09, 2010, 08:44:36 PM
J, Does it bother you if I say that I'm going to the supermarket instead of saying that I'm driving there?
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on September 09, 2010, 09:08:18 PM
I can't imagine why that would bother me.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: The Genuine on September 09, 2010, 10:32:57 PM
It just strikes me that saying something is a subset of indicating something.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on September 09, 2010, 10:40:39 PM
I thought it was pretty clear from my previous posts that I don't consider say to be a subset or synonym of indicate, so I don't know why you'd think the problem was that I don't like using words that are supersets of other words.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: pooka on September 10, 2010, 10:08:46 AM
The problem I see with indicate is that some people think of something has more syllables, it is more formal.  I see this a lot in people thanking the Lord for the "moisture" rather than rain or snow.  Now, if there were a light wintry mix that morning, I could maybe see "moisture" as a superior reference.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: BlackBlade on September 10, 2010, 11:14:20 AM
The problem I see with indicate is that some people think of something has more syllables, it is more formal.  I see this a lot in people thanking the Lord for the "moisture" rather than rain or snow.  Now, if there were a light wintry mix that morning, I could maybe see "moisture" as a superior reference.
Bro. Groberg gave a talk about praying for favorable winds on a rickety boat.  The captain chastised him for it because there might be a boat coming in the other direction, and for God to grant them that boon he would have to inconvenience the other boat.

I've never been able to pray for favorable weather since.  The best I can do is pray to God to end say a drought brought on by wickedness.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Annie Subjunctive on September 10, 2010, 05:21:01 PM
Passive aggressive me wants to volunteer to offer prayers whenever I get the chance just so I can express thanks for the precipitation. Moisture just makes it sound like we're all sweaty.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on September 12, 2010, 07:35:44 PM
How about just thanking/asking for, you know, rain?
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Annie Subjunctive on September 12, 2010, 07:53:25 PM
Well, I think the "moisture" thing started, at least it seemed so in the places I always lived, as a way to encompass both rain and snow. But the fact that we already have the word precipitation is what always puzzled me about it.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on September 12, 2010, 10:43:39 PM
Actually, in Jewish prayer, we pray for rain only in rain season.  The rest of the time, we pray for dew (although in some traditions, they leave off the dew prayer, and in some, they pray for rain and dew, no matter the season.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Annie Subjunctive on September 13, 2010, 12:10:45 AM
in some, they pray for rain and dew, no matter the season.
They're only one step away from praying for moisture. Be vigilant!

How do you say moisture in Hebrew? Does it sound like being sweaty?
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on September 13, 2010, 12:43:34 AM
I know how to say water, dew, and rain (actually, I know at least two words for rain) in Hebrew. Oh, and snow! Not sure about moisture, though.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: BlackBlade on September 13, 2010, 07:56:57 AM
Well, I think the "moisture" thing started, at least it seemed so in the places I always lived, as a way to encompass both rain and snow. But the fact that we already have the word precipitation is what always puzzled me about it.
Maybe people use the word moisture more often than precipitation.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Annie Subjunctive on September 13, 2010, 04:44:00 PM
If they use it to mean precipitation, though, I don't think that word means what they think it means.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: BlackBlade on September 13, 2010, 04:51:32 PM
If they use it to mean precipitation, though, I don't think that word means what they think it means.
Well, I'm still trying to figure out when the heck Sundee is.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on September 13, 2010, 05:22:07 PM
It's the day after Saturdee, silly. :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Annie Subjunctive on September 13, 2010, 07:29:34 PM
For the warring descriptivist and prescriptivist within me:
Quote
The relationships between sounds and meanings are arbitrary, yet they define the world, and it may be painful to notice that the good old world is disappearing with what was earlier considered good language.
The descriptivist scores a blow.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on September 15, 2010, 03:27:51 PM
I'm editing a piece by an author who is a chronic that dropper.

Quote
Oliver recalled when they “received the office of the lesser priesthood” the angel had made a “promise” he would be ordained “to the Presidency.”
Quote
Oliver Cowdery wrote both he and Joseph “received the high and holy priesthood” from these Apostles.

I'm adding in about five or six thats per page to help with readability. It's getting really annoying.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: dkw on September 15, 2010, 03:44:16 PM
I worked with a Sr. Pastor who would take the thats out of other people's newsletter articles (and never used them in his own) because he thought they were a waste of space.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: BlackBlade on September 15, 2010, 03:49:23 PM
Is that a grammatical problem, or just a stylistic one?
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on September 15, 2010, 03:56:19 PM
dkw: It probably goes back to traditions like Strunk & White's "omit needless words," which I think is vague and unhelpful at best and detrimental at worst. Just because you can technically omit something and still make sense doesn't mean you should.

BlackBlade: Those sentences aren't technically ungrammatical, so I would say that it's just a stylistic issue. People frequently delete that as a complementizer or relative pronoun, especially in speech, as in "He said he was going to the store." That's completely unambiguous and unobjectionable. When it becomes a problem, in my opinion, is when the next phrase or clause reads like a complement to the verb in the main clause, when it's actually part of a subordinate clause. They are what's called garden path sentences (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garden_path_sentence), where the sentence is technically grammatical but very easy to misparse.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Nighthawk on September 15, 2010, 06:31:39 PM
I'm editing a piece by an author who is a chronic that dropper.

Quote
Oliver recalled when they “received the office of the lesser priesthood” the angel had made a “promise” he would be ordained “to the Presidency.”
Quote
Oliver Cowdery wrote both he and Joseph “received the high and holy priesthood” from these Apostles.

I'm adding in about five or six thats per page to help with readability. It's getting really annoying.

I don't see anything wrong with.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on September 15, 2010, 06:47:26 PM
 :D
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on September 15, 2010, 08:32:00 PM
I just adore Jasper Fforde sometimes:

Quote
"Good. Item seven. The had had and that that problem. Lady Cavendish, weren’t you working on this?’

Lady Cavendish stood up and gathered her thoughts. ‘Indeed. The uses of had had and that that have to be strictly controlled; they can interrupt the imaginotransference quite dramatically, causing readers to go back over the sentence in confusion, something we try to avoid.’

‘Go on.’

It’s mostly an unlicensed-usage problem. At the last count David Copperfield alone had had had had sixty three times, all but ten unapproved. Pilgrim’s Progress may also be a problem due to its had had/that that ratio.’

So what’s the problem in Progress?’

That that had that that ten times but had had had had only thrice. Increased had had usage had had to be overlooked, but not if the number exceeds that that that usage.’

Hmm,’ said the Bellman, ‘I thought had had had had TGC’s approval for use in Dickens? What’s the problem?’

Take the first had had and that that in the book by way of example,’ said Lady Cavendish. ‘You would have thought that that first had had had had good occasion to be seen as had, had you not? Had had had approval but had had had not; equally it is true to say that that that that had had approval but that that other that that had not.’

So the problem with that other that that was that…?’

‘That that other-other that that had had approval.’

Okay’ said the Bellman, whose head was in danger of falling apart like a chocolate orange, ‘let me get this straight: David Copperfield, unlike Pilgrim’s Progress, had had had, had had had had. Had had had had TGC’s approval?’

There was a very long pause. ‘Right,’ said the Bellman with a sigh, ‘that’s it for the moment. I’ll be giving out assignments in ten minutes. Session’s over – and let’s be careful out there."
(from The Well of Lost Plots)
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on September 15, 2010, 09:17:47 PM
I love that quote too. In fact, I believe I mentioned it here. It's a teeny bit more comprehensible with the italics (http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/show/58832).
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: pooka on September 16, 2010, 09:49:38 AM
Is TGC the galacticcactus? ;)
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Annie Subjunctive on September 19, 2010, 11:16:55 PM
This isn't a quote from work, it's just my own frustration: I have the hardest time typing the word language. This is exceedingly vexing for someone writing papers in the field of second language acquisition. Every single time I go to type it my fingers tie themselves up in knots and I end up writing lanugae or langague or some other ridiculous iteration. If I do it one more time, I'm going to punch myself in the face.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on September 20, 2010, 09:08:29 AM
I usually end up with langauge.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: BlackBlade on September 20, 2010, 11:55:01 AM
Well that's strange.  If I need to type out the word language just once, like in a sentence, I have no problem doing it.  I just tried writing out the word over, and over again, and after about four times it starts getting really hard!?

My attempts without any editing to follow,

language language language language language langeuage language language langeu language language language language language language language <---(felt like a mistake but I kept typing anyway) language language language language language languagel language language language language.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: pooka on September 20, 2010, 06:23:35 PM
language.  Nope.  But then I couldn't type Nope.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Kate Boots on September 21, 2010, 10:47:16 AM
I know that I usually hate language peeving, but I really hate the use of "indicate" to mean "say", as in "Elder Brown indicated that President David O. McKay wished to see Eldon." It always gives me the mental image of someone communicating solely through hand gestures and facial expressions.

I just saw this and had to express my sympathy.  I used to have to transcribe my former boss's dictated notes from meetings.  In addition to sentences that defied grammatical punctuation, he almost always used "indicated" instead of "said". It was as if some teacher had told him not to use the word "say" and "indicate" was all he could think of to replace it.   "Mr. Smith's secretary indicated that Mr. Smith was out of the office."  I always imagined a conversation of winks and nudges.  Drove me nuts.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on September 21, 2010, 01:08:01 PM
My feeling is not that they were taught not to use say, but rather that they're reaching for more learned words.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Kate Boots on September 21, 2010, 01:29:06 PM
Probably.  This guy tended to be very insecure about being surrounded by people who had more education than he did.  (It was at a university.)  I spent a year and a half typing out this stuff and had no discretion to change anything.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on September 21, 2010, 01:39:24 PM
Ugh. That would drive me nuts too.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on September 23, 2010, 02:44:48 PM
Quote
Rallying to the cause, a formal organization composed of single young men and women under the age of thirty known as the Young Gentlemen’s and Ladies’ Relief Society of Nauvoo was formally organized on March 21, 1843. (emphasis mine)

*sigh*

Nice dangling participle too.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on September 23, 2010, 03:00:40 PM
It's also a good example of what I consider to be rather rote and superficial editing: the previous editing changed the author's original "comprised of" to "composed of" and left everything else.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: BlackBlade on September 23, 2010, 03:08:30 PM
Are there situations where comprised is a better word in a sentence rather than composed?
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on September 23, 2010, 03:16:54 PM
Yes. The traditional definition of comprise is essentially 'to be composed of', so it doesn't really work as a substitute for compose. According to the traditional rule, one could say that the fifty states compose the United States and that the United States comprises the fifty states, but not that the United States is comprised of fifty states. But people have been using "comprised of" for over two hundred years, and I don't think there's any going back. In fact, I'd say that at least 90 percent of the time when I see some form of comprise in unedited writing, it's in the traditionally incorrect use.

Personally, I would have left "comprised of" in there. I figure if 90 percent of our authors (who nearly all have PhDs) use it in the so-called incorrect way, then it's not worth changing. But what bugs me is when editors seize on usage shibboleths like this one, dutifully correcting them all, while passing over more fundamental semantic and structural problems.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: pooka on September 23, 2010, 06:18:13 PM
Here here.   ;)
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: BlackBlade on September 23, 2010, 06:21:26 PM
Thanks Jon.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on September 28, 2010, 09:05:34 AM
I just came across the phrase "age-group" in something I'm editing, and I noticed that someone had stuck a hyphen in it. Well, that's obviously wrong, I thought, so I struck it out. But then I looked it up in Merriam-Webster just to be safe, and lo and behold, they have it with a hyphen. Blech. I think I hate that worse than good-bye (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/good-bye).
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: pooka on September 28, 2010, 09:50:21 AM
Agegroup looks weird because of the proximate gs.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on September 28, 2010, 09:57:48 AM
I'm talking about age group versus age-group. I wouldn't make it a closed compound.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Annie Subjunctive on October 02, 2010, 05:25:38 PM
One of my students is fond of writing in English on her facebook, which I think is a great way to practice. I'm still trying to figure out what today's status update means, though:

"I like today.

BUT..........

I have an annoying cousin.
...
Today, the collapse of the Cold War as a smile"
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on October 03, 2010, 12:20:37 AM
Any chance "smile" was meant to be "simile"?
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Annie Subjunctive on October 03, 2010, 02:16:55 AM
Maybe. Pretty sure she doesn't know what simile means, but perhaps.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on October 03, 2010, 02:23:47 AM
Pretty sure she doesn't know what simile means
This occurred to me -- it's a pretty advanced word. But it would make so much more sense!
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: BlackBlade on October 03, 2010, 04:03:12 AM
One of my teachers over the summer said she found it endlessly amusing that often, when I was speaking Mandarin, I would make sentences that were a juxtaposition of formal, and informal words.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Annie Subjunctive on October 06, 2010, 01:52:57 AM
Today's quiz: "Use these words in a sentence that explains the meaning."

thrive
He thrived my sister three days ago and I felt anxious.

allergic
He never eats fish because it's allergic to him.

coincidence
I think the word "coincidence" is a pretty hard word.
(My response: What a coincidence! I think so too!)

allergic
Kevin lobster is allergic to lobster. What a strange!
(sadly, this student did not have an answer for the word coincidence)

coincidence
All of us like Jeff because he has coincidence.

mood
The teacher blamed us when we didn't do our homework. I think it's a good mood for us.

disgusted
He is such a disgusted person.
(technically correct, but probably not what you meant.)

disgusted
Some people like to try disgusted food because this can make their life more exciting.

allergic
I am allergic to the doll's fur, so I can't approach these dolls.
(Maybe these are Teen Wolf dolls)

allergic
Will you feel allergic about any seafood?

They're actually very good students. I just find their phrasing awful cute. Also, just about every student's sentence for the word mood was about a math teacher and students who got bad grades. Coincidentally, math is the class they have right before mine . . .
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on October 06, 2010, 06:55:28 AM
I think I too might be anxious if someone were thriving my sister.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Annie Subjunctive on October 06, 2010, 07:40:23 AM
I know! It made me wonder if I really knew the meaning because all the sudden it seemed very sinister.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: BlackBlade on October 06, 2010, 09:41:09 AM
Quote
mood
The teacher blamed us when we didn't do our homework. I think it's a good mood for us.
To be fair, I think the student the student went wrong when they said, "good mood" instead of, "appropriate mood".

So, "I think it's the appropriate mood towards us."
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Nighthawk on October 06, 2010, 10:09:19 AM
Quote
I think the word "coincidence" is a pretty hard word.

If one answered that for every word, would he pass? I mean, it technically is correct and in a sentence...  <_<
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on October 06, 2010, 10:15:44 AM
Not a "sentence that explains the meaning".
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Nighthawk on October 06, 2010, 10:17:27 AM
I fail! :P
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: pooka on October 06, 2010, 10:37:29 AM
Were we really after a sentence that explains the meaning or a sentence that demonstrates an understanding of the meaning?
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Annie Subjunctive on October 06, 2010, 03:59:15 PM
I don't think they would understand "a sentence that demonstrates an understanding of the meaning."
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Annie Subjunctive on October 09, 2010, 08:26:01 AM
I can always tell when my students use Google translate
Quote
Jesus Christ
1.To save the world,he was nails tight in ten type cases.
I dunno, call it a sixth sense or something . . .
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: BlackBlade on October 09, 2010, 08:36:55 AM
I can always tell when my students use Google translate
Quote
Jesus Christ
1.To save the world,he was nails tight in ten type cases.
I dunno, call it a sixth sense or something . . .
I wish I had a job where I could read funny things like that.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: pooka on October 09, 2010, 09:37:50 PM
I'm trying to figure out what that could have started out as.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Annie Subjunctive on October 10, 2010, 06:06:03 AM
The "ten type cases" is a weird rendering of "cross" which is 十字架 (a frame/case shaped like the character for 10)
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Annie Subjunctive on October 11, 2010, 01:14:11 AM
OK, today's are great. They were given a situation of someone with a problem, and had to write a paragraph of advice (to use modal verbs like should, ought to, etc.) Here were my two favorites

Situation: a girl is wondering whether to break up with her fiance because he doesn't talk about his feelings and doesn't do anything considerate for her.
Advice: "He doesn't know how to please you; this also means he doesn't know how to please other girls. You should be happy for that."

Situation: a guy has a crush on his female friend. She has a boyfriend who treats her badly and this guy can't get up the guts to tell her how he feels.
Advice: "You ought to write a card to her, to say how you love her. You'd better tell her that you are her real Mr. Right. You are supposed to be stronger than her boyfriend & kill him. You have to buy anything that she likes. You must marry her."
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: pooka on October 12, 2010, 02:50:10 AM
If he didn't, that would pretty much make him a tease, I think.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Annie Subjunctive on October 12, 2010, 06:19:07 AM
The best part is that the "& kill him" was very small and inserted with a caret.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Annie Subjunctive on October 12, 2010, 06:22:41 AM
P.S. I had to look up "carrot; disambiguation" on Wikipedia before I could post that and not make myself look like an idiot. Cheers for Wikipedia clearing up misconceptions held since childhood!

Speaking of misconceptions held since childhood, until 5th grade I was convinced that parentheses were carentheses. I remember quite vividly the humiliating scene of my disillusionment. I was very pleased, though, this week, when I taught the word to my boss and she said "Parentheses or carentheses?" Validation after all these years.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: pooka on October 13, 2010, 06:41:45 PM
I don't know if this really counts as a quote from work, but we were playing scrabble the other night and my husband thought that "putting on airs" required an e in the "airs".  Thoughts?
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on October 13, 2010, 07:10:29 PM
I don't think it does.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on October 13, 2010, 08:35:31 PM
I can't see any reason it would. I can't find any dictionary that likes that spelling.

And since when does Scrabble have phrases?
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: pooka on October 13, 2010, 09:06:04 PM
He was just debating whether s could be added to air.  I didn't voice my opinion that it could.  He came back from a lost challenge to win that game, quite unexpectedly.  Though I had warned spacepook to not keep crowing our leading score.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on October 13, 2010, 11:15:33 PM
He was just debating whether s could be added to air.
Ah.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Annie Subjunctive on October 13, 2010, 11:45:14 PM
Why are we talking about carrots in two separate threads?
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on October 14, 2010, 11:15:40 AM
Because you talked about carats here, and that made me think of all the homophones of carrot, which I posted here.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on October 14, 2010, 11:16:11 AM
Book title du jour: John R. Winder: Member of the First Presidency, Pioneer, Temple Builder, Dairyman.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: pooka on October 15, 2010, 07:12:15 AM
Dairymanliness is next to Godliness.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Brinestone on October 15, 2010, 08:01:47 AM
God milk?
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on October 15, 2010, 09:25:52 AM
Holy cow!
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: BlackBlade on October 15, 2010, 09:52:59 AM
Was it the Salt Lake Temple where one winter while it was being constructed they housed cattle inside?

edit: Nope nevermind, I believe it was the Kirtland Temple after the Mormons had left Ohio.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on October 15, 2010, 10:21:09 AM
Holy cow!
Winner!
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Scott R on October 15, 2010, 10:54:30 AM
All the funny quotes I have from work are classified.

Rats.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: pooka on October 15, 2010, 04:11:10 PM
Was it the Salt Lake Temple where one winter while it was being constructed they housed cattle inside?

edit: Nope nevermind, I believe it was the Kirtland Temple after the Mormons had left Ohio.
I'm willing to bet it was the Nauvoo Temple, after it had burned and partly collapsed.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: BlackBlade on October 15, 2010, 08:51:45 PM
Was it the Salt Lake Temple where one winter while it was being constructed they housed cattle inside?

edit: Nope nevermind, I believe it was the Kirtland Temple after the Mormons had left Ohio.
I'm willing to bet it was the Nauvoo Temple, after it had burned and partly collapsed.
Actually it might have been the first Nauvoo temple.  But I'm pretty sure it was burned after all that other stuff happened.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: pooka on October 16, 2010, 09:35:54 AM
No, it burned first and then got hit by a tornado.  

There was also a fire that broke out during the original run of use as a temple, but that was successfully put out.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Annie Subjunctive on October 19, 2010, 10:46:20 PM
Assignment: If you could invent something new, what would it be?

Thing: Wanton door (the door which can arrive anywhere you want.)
Why: If someone invent this door, we can save time to go to another countries or places. And this invention can be more safely than take airplane. Maybe one day, I will invent the Wanton door. That the world can be a really Global-village.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Nighthawk on October 20, 2010, 10:09:25 AM
 :blink:
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Mucus on October 20, 2010, 10:30:43 AM
It's like a Stargate, or Iconian portal, or Taelon ID.
Pretty handy if you can iron out the bugs ... which could take anywhere from one or two episodes to whole seasons.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on October 20, 2010, 01:46:42 PM
I'm editing something about the renovation of the Tabernacle on Temple Square, and it talks about how the seating capacity was actually reduced, thus expanding the spacing between the rows. Then it describes the new seating as more accommodating than the original seating, which seems backwards to me. "More accommodating" says to me that it seats more people, not that it seats fewer people but that they have more room.

Thoughts?
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on October 20, 2010, 02:04:10 PM
More comfortable?  Or maybe they mean more accommodating to people with disabilities or, you know, fatness.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on October 20, 2010, 02:14:15 PM
Not really more comfortable, because they're still hard wooden pews, and not really more accessible either. I think he simply means it in the sense of "more spacious", but it seemed odd to me because the article keeps talking about how the Church has always struggled to provide large enough meetinghouses for large conferences. Then the Conference Center was built, which seats about three or four times the number of people as the Tabernacle, and the Tabernacle was renovated and its capacity slightly reduced, so in that sense it's actually less accommodating now than before.

Maybe I'm overthinking this.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on October 20, 2010, 04:17:19 PM
It may accommodate fewer people, but it is more accommodating to each of those people.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on October 20, 2010, 04:26:44 PM
Right. But my natural tendency is to read it as saying that the new seating accommodates more people, when in fact it accommodates fewer. The context ultimately makes it clear, but I wondered if it actually said what he meant.

Maybe I should've included the actual sentence in context.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: BlackBlade on October 20, 2010, 05:00:17 PM
I don't think accommodate must be limited to a numerical sense, though I've certainly heard it used numerously that way.  Still, the word feels like it should be able to accommodate (no play on words intended) the other meaning where comfort is discussed.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on October 20, 2010, 05:26:45 PM
This is really splitting hairs (and is probably just me anyway), but to me, "accommodates" implies number while "accommodating" implies ease/comfort.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on October 20, 2010, 06:04:01 PM
Quote
More comfortable?  Or maybe they mean more accommodating to people with disabilities or, you know, fatness.
Having sat in the SLC Tabernacle, I'm going to with "or, you know, knees".


Quote
Not really more comfortable, because they're still hard wooden pews
Increasing the space between those wooden pews will definitely make sitting there for any length of time more comfortable.

Quote
This is really splitting hairs (and is probably just me anyway), but to me, "accommodates" implies number while "accommodating" implies ease/comfort.
That's how it is for me too.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on October 20, 2010, 09:51:33 PM
Pew is a funny word.  It always makes me think that the seat smells bad.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on October 20, 2010, 09:56:57 PM
(http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/funny-pictures-cat-goes-pew.jpg)
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: BlackBlade on October 21, 2010, 06:45:40 AM
Ahhhhhh....
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on October 21, 2010, 09:58:19 AM
Here's the full sentence in its unedited glory:

Quote
Though more accommodating than the originals, President Hinckley still quipped about the new seating at the building's rededication, "As you've already discovered, the new benches are just as hard as the old ones were."

I decided to leave "accommodating" and change it as follows:

Quote
Though the new pews are more accommodating, President Hinckley still quipped at the building's rededication, "As you've already discovered, the new benches are just as hard as the old ones were."


But later in the article, the author includes this quote from the Church's Presiding Bishop:

Quote
We hope in a very inauspicious way to structurally strengthen the building.

I certainly hope not.

The problem is what to do with the quote. If I leave it in, both Bishop Burton and the author sound stupid. If I put in a (sic), the author saves some face but Bishop Burton's malapropism is highlighted. If I delete "inauspicious" and insert "inconspicuous" in brackets, it still draws too much attention to itself. I might have to just delete the quote.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: dkw on October 21, 2010, 10:12:39 AM
Can you contact the author and ask if he meant to type "inconspicuous"?  If he says yes, then you're all clear, if he says "No, I'm sure the Bishop said 'inauspicious,' then leave the quote out.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on October 21, 2010, 10:18:48 AM
I already know the original quote said "inauspicious". The original is in this article (http://www.ldschurchnews.com/articles/46348/Tabernacle-to-close-for-renovation.html), at the start of the paragraph just above the third picture.

I'd already decided to cut it before I saw your post, but it's nice to have some confirmation.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on October 27, 2010, 04:13:08 PM
(This is posted just to make Jonathon kvell (http://www.google.com/dictionary?q=kvell&langpair=en|en&hl=en&sa=X&ei=PbHITJ3FPI-4sAPh9pmkCQ&ved=0CBgQmwMoAA).)

The question posted to the listserv was:
Quote
Colleagues -
 
Recently the language in our catalog referring to student classification was challenged.
 
We classify any student with "less than 30 credits completed" as a freshmen. However, some on campus feel the text should be "fewer than 30 credits completed".
 
I always assumed that because we're referring to a unit of measurement, less than was appropriate. But I haven't dug too deep into proper usage of less vs. fewer.
 
What say you?

Several responses gave standard defenses of "fewer". I posted as follows:
Quote
Once, I too was an unrepentant prescriptivist. “Less coffee, fewer donuts!” I cried.

Then I started hanging around with linguists and reading the Language Log blog. See http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/004005.html

Summary: It’s more complicated than that. And there’s nothing wrong with saying “less than 30 credits”.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on October 27, 2010, 04:31:21 PM
 :)

I'll even overlook the fact that you misspelled my name. ;)
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on October 27, 2010, 05:04:16 PM
 :whistling:

(Student whose file I was dealing with earlier today spells it the other way.)
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on October 28, 2010, 02:04:27 PM
Quote
Upon entering the building, the entry is floored in white marble, and the walls are veneered with large blocks of golden travertine marble, both extracted from Utah quarries.

Upon exiting the building, however, the entry ceases to exist.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on October 28, 2010, 04:32:28 PM
Well, DUH. On the way out, it's the exit.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on October 28, 2010, 04:41:58 PM
Oh, psh. You're going to make me ruin the joke by explaining it.

According to the prescriptive rule, the understood subject of a participial clause is the subject of the main clause. Ergo "Upon the entry's entering the building, the entry is floored in white marble. . . ." And when the entry exits the building, presumably it ceases to be an entry at all.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on October 28, 2010, 05:02:56 PM
Oh, psh. You're going to make me ruin the joke by explaining it.
No. I'm going to ignore the fact that I know your point is valid in favor of commenting on the literal meaning of what you said.

;)
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on October 28, 2010, 05:06:07 PM
Hmm. Now I'm trying to figure out how your meaning is more literal than mine. :p
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on November 01, 2010, 05:13:04 PM
Today is Nov. 1. That means that the final versions of most of the regs that were released for negotiated rulemaking 60+ days ago have now been released by the Dept. of Education. The majority will go into effect July 1.

I hate reading those things undigested, and will wait the few days/weeks it will take the various analysts to come out with annotated and charted versions. Meanwhile, from one of those analysts:
Quote
As part of today's vocabulary lesson from the US Department of Education, we turn to page 173 of the final regulations. The word of the day is "eleemosynary":

   "the institution being authorized specifically as an
    educational institution, not merely as a business or
    an eleemosynary organization"

Pronounced el-uh-mo-sin-ary, it means "supported by charitable contributions" or "dependent on charity".
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Nighthawk on November 01, 2010, 07:27:06 PM
Well it is the US Government... They can make up any word they want, right?



Old Anecdote of the Day:

One day the Director of Marketing had to do a presentation to the board of directors of IBM Latin America. He had not written the presentation himself, but rather had a lackey prepare it for him and send him the document. He took it to Kinkos and spent upwards of $200 to get multiple copies printed on heavy stock, bound and readied for distribution.

Unbeknownst to him, there use to be a Microsoft Word virus called the "Wazzu Virus" (http://www.f-secure.com/v-descs/wazzu.shtml)... It was a macro virus that would pick a random word in a Word document and replace it with the word "wazzu".

He spent thirty minutes during his presentation trying to come up with an adequate explanation of what the "Wazzu Factor" was and how it related to international shipping.

I didn't have the heart to tell him.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: pooka on November 01, 2010, 08:10:41 PM
Eleemosynary would make a great baby name.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on November 01, 2010, 08:32:06 PM
Well it is the US Government... They can make up any word they want, right?
And apparently travel back in time. Dictionary.com had it as a word of the day in 2003.

Eleemosynary would make a great baby name.
:blink:
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on November 01, 2010, 08:36:48 PM
As a general rule, I'm against making up new names for babies.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: pooka on November 01, 2010, 08:56:04 PM
Spacepook stopped calling the baby Cedar ever since the ultrasound.  Now it's "the baby".
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: dkw on November 01, 2010, 09:02:08 PM
I already knew the word "eleemosynary", but I don't remember why I know it. 
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on November 01, 2010, 10:21:48 PM
Word-of-the-day calendar? That's probably the only reason why anybody knows that word.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on November 01, 2010, 10:40:28 PM
Well, SOMEONE at the Department knew the bloody thing!

Probably some lawyer. ;)
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Annie Subjunctive on November 02, 2010, 02:12:13 AM
One time my design partner gave me a word of the day calendar for Christmas. So I faithfully read it out loud to her and our coworkers every day. One day the word was noblesse oblige, which I'd never heard, in English OR French, until that day. The very net day I listened to a book on tape by Neal A. Maxwell, and guess what word he used.

The moral is, sometimes a word of the day calendar might save your life. (Like, if, instead of a Neal A. Maxwell book on tape it had been the safety instructions on a 747 and I was sitting in an exit row.)
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on November 02, 2010, 07:07:58 AM
I'd love to see the safety instructions that used "noblesse oblige". :D
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: dkw on November 02, 2010, 10:24:20 AM
Not terribly likely -- the only way I've been exposed to word of the day calendars is when my mom emails me a particularly interesting one or if I happen to check an online dictionary that day that has it in their banner or sidebar.  It probably showed up in something weird I read 20 years ago and just stuck.  My mental filing cabinet has a very large "useless minutia" section.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: pooka on November 02, 2010, 02:28:49 PM
Noblesse Oblige dictates that economy class be evacuated ahead of first class due to the lack of legroom.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on November 02, 2010, 03:57:56 PM
I didn't mean that I couldn't think of an appropriate context. I meant, I'd love to see the snooty airline that printed up such instructions, and what they looked like.

Also, I decided to skim the regs. A friend gave me the tip to search for the string "changes:", plus some sections are of more interest than others. And I literally LOL'd at this:
Quote
Comment: One commenter noted that
most Pell-eligible applicants would not
benefit from the IRS Data Retrieval
Process since they are not required to
file a Federal tax return because they do
not earn enough. Therefore, this
commenter argued that these applicants
and the institutions that serve them
would not experience the reduction in
burden the IRS Data Retrieval Process is
expected to provide.
Discussion: The commenter is correct.
Changes: None.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on November 10, 2010, 01:21:56 PM
My coworkers are all puzzled about this sentence, and I'm puzzled about their puzzlement. It's from a book about Latter-day Saints in Germany before and during World War II.

Quote
Under a government that convinced or compelled more and more of its citizens to march to the same dark tune, members of a church that exalted the concept of freedom of choice (moral agency) were bound to feel at odds with the party line.

They're apparently all hung up over the "march to the same dark tune bit" because they're confusing or conflating it with "march to the beat of a different drummer", which means rather the opposite of what is meant here. They even had issues with the word "dark", though I have no idea why. I'm having a hard time seeing how this sentence's meaning is anything but readily apparent. I'm rather bewildered that five different people, two of whom are copy editors, could read it and be so baffled by it. One of them even said that it was such a terrible sentence that it should be run over by a bus. I think they all need to read a lot more.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: BlackBlade on November 10, 2010, 01:32:33 PM
I should think that the image of Germans either saluting or marching in unison is one of the most common images of the period.  Your co-workers sound like they are editing out of a sense of personal bias rather than accepted usage.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on November 10, 2010, 01:38:59 PM
I don't think it's bias. They're all insisting that it isn't accepted usage, because they searched in an online dictionary of idioms and couldn't find "march to the same tune", as if that proves that the phrase doesn't exist or doesn't make sense.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on November 10, 2010, 01:42:21 PM
All that proves is that it's not a cliche.

I'd think that might be a good thing.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on November 10, 2010, 01:47:23 PM
Or simply one that they're not familiar with. But one girl kept insisting that it wasn't a real idiom. First of all, I'd disagree, and second, so what?

But what really baffled me was the insistence that it didn't make any sense or meant the opposite of what was intended.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on November 10, 2010, 01:50:53 PM
I join you in your bafflement.

Or simply one that they're not familiar with.
I meant the fact that they couldn't find it in the idiom dictionary.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: BlackBlade on November 10, 2010, 01:57:16 PM
Or simply one that they're not familiar with. But one girl kept insisting that it wasn't a real idiom. First of all, I'd disagree, and second, so what?

But what really baffled me was the insistence that it didn't make any sense or meant the opposite of what was intended.
Does an idiom have to be documented in order for it to be used?  I mean if I make one up and its well put together well enough that its meaning is clear, would an editor still strike it?
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: dkw on November 10, 2010, 02:07:45 PM
Tell them it's imagery, not an idiom.

The only part of it I thought was not completely clear was whether the "party line" at the end was the LDS line or the Nazi line.  But it's clear after a half-second double-take what the author means.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on November 10, 2010, 02:18:28 PM
I meant the fact that they couldn't find it in the idiom dictionary.

Gotcha.

Does an idiom have to be documented in order for it to be used?  I mean if I make one up and its well put together well enough that its meaning is clear, would an editor still strike it?

To the first question, no. After all, it has to be used before it becomes noticeable enough to be documented, right? And to the second, a good editor wouldn't. I think it's a mark of amateur editing to come across an unfamiliar phrase and delete it or change it as a reflex. This post (http://www.subversivecopyeditor.com/blog/2010/11/true-crime-in-copyediting.html) is a good explanation of how good editors should work.

Tell them it's imagery, not an idiom.

Yeah. I don't know why they were so hung up on the question of whether it was an established idiom.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: dkw on November 10, 2010, 08:23:36 PM
Where/how do you draw the line between editing and re-writing?   What do you when you're pretty sure you could write the paper/chapter/book better but that's not really your job?  Or how do you deal with the frustration of knowing that you could do it better but that that's not your job?

That could be a general or specific "you" up there -- anyone who edits other people's stuff feel free to answer.  Other people's stuff other than school papers, that is.  That's a much easier line for me to draw.  

ETA:  didn't mean to limit that.  Anyone please answer what you would do, but those who do do please tell me what you do do.

But not what you doo doo, I get enough of that conversation with my kids.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: pooka on November 10, 2010, 09:24:28 PM
I agree with the run over with bus person.  Though I would try and come up with a more original way to say it.  It sounds hackneyed, even if it has not technically ever been published before. 

My qualification is as a former legal secretary and as an english speaker working for a non english speaking boss.  The violations of english that go on at my job are so frequent and horrible I really wind up picking my battles.  I do sometimes worry about documents that get sent out to allied providers and facilities and if they understand the complications involved in working for my boss.  Unlikely.  They probably just assume our whole office is illiterate.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on November 11, 2010, 11:59:17 AM
Where/how do you draw the line between editing and re-writing?   What do you when you're pretty sure you could write the paper/chapter/book better but that's not really your job?  Or how do you deal with the frustration of knowing that you could do it better but that that's not your job?

That could be a general or specific "you" up there -- anyone who edits other people's stuff feel free to answer.  Other people's stuff other than school papers, that is.  That's a much easier line for me to draw.  

ETA:  didn't mean to limit that.  Anyone please answer what you would do, but those who do do please tell me what you do do.

But not what you doo doo, I get enough of that conversation with my kids.

Boy, you could probably write whole books about this question, and every editor is probably going to give you a different answer.

Personally, I prefer a light hand by default. For one thing, I think that ideas about what makes writing better or worse are often pretty subjective and difficult to justify. For another thing, not all authors are appreciative of substantive revisions or rewriting. Some authors get pretty upset that you're butchering their words and changing their meaning; other authors appreciate that you've improved their words and strengthened or clarified their meaning. And a lot of authors don't really have the best understanding of what copy editors do. Some think we're just here to clean up mistakes and apply consistent style and formatting. Others expect more than that. If you're working on something that you think could use a pretty substantive edit, I think it's best to check with the author first and see how much editing they're comfortable with.

A lot of editors talk about advocating for the reader or working as an intermediary between author and reader, but the truth is that editors are not normal readers and don't necessarily know how normal readers will respond. However, some editors will react as if they are the only reader, changing everything that seems even a little weird or unclear to them. Some editors are of the opinion that even potential ambiguities, however unlikely they are, should be changed, but I like to give readers more credit than that.

But there are plenty of times when I know I could write something better, but I basically just remind myself that it's not my job. It can still be pretty frustrating, though, to feel like we're publishing subpar stuff. I just try to remind myself several things:

There's always going to be some frustration when you feel like you could make it better, but it's not your job. It's actually one reason why I get really tired of editing sometimes—I don't like feeling like we're publishing mediocre work and there's nothing I can do about it. This is why I sometimes prefer typesetting—at least I can ensure that the final product looks good.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: dkw on November 11, 2010, 12:53:49 PM
I'm not the authors' research assistant or coauthor or ghostwriter. By default, I assume that they don't want me to be

Heh.  I am the author's research assistant.  I guess I'm trying to figure out the line between that and ghostwriter.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on November 11, 2010, 01:37:20 PM
Ah. Yeah, that is tricky. Have you talked to your boss about how much editing or rewriting he expects or is okay with?
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on November 17, 2010, 11:41:31 AM
This is from an oral history interview quoted in a book we're editing:

Quote
I don't want to mention any names, but Huck was very well known as a Nazi.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: BlackBlade on November 17, 2010, 12:31:46 PM
Seems that if somebody is well known as something or other there isn't any need to name names.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on November 17, 2010, 12:49:09 PM
Didn't want to mention any names, but forced himself.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Annie Subjunctive on December 12, 2010, 10:08:40 PM
Today's assignment: we watched Merry Christmas, Mr. Bean, whom they love, and they had to write about "at least three funny things that happened and explain why they were funny."

These were some of my favorites:

When he play the doll, it has a funny drama. The dinasour is fighting with tanks and robert. And he makes a lot of weird sounds.

Play Jesus pattern.

He plays the little statue, it's really like a child's act.

He pull Santa Clas's beer which is real.

He sent a mail to himself.

He wake up and dance.

His head is catched for the turky.

The turkey be in his head.

He put his head in the turckey's booty.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Scott R on December 13, 2010, 05:12:01 AM
Quote
Under a government that convinced or compelled more and more of its citizens to march to the same dark tune, members of a church that exalted the concept of freedom of choice (moral agency) were bound to feel at odds with the party line.

I have a different criticism than your peers, Jonathon: it's a bit side-comment heavy.  Take out some of the "or" statements and the parenthetical, and it'd be a lot more clean.  Here's what I'd suggest:

Under a government that compelled more and more of its citizens to march to the same dark tune, members of a church that exalted the concept of moral agency were bound to feel at odds with the party line.

I might add the qualifier 'Nazi' to 'party line' to clarify the issues rivka and dkw mentioned.

Quote
Where/how do you draw the line between editing and re-writing?   What do you when you're pretty sure you could write the paper/chapter/book better but that's not really your job?  Or how do you deal with the frustration of knowing that you could do it better but that that's not your job?

I think Jonathon gave a great answer.  I copy-edit for IGMS, and I take the same attitude as he does.  Generally, by the time it gets to me, we don't have any time for changes anyway. 
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: pooka on December 16, 2010, 05:53:03 PM
I haven't seen Merry Christmas, Mr. Bean.  And now I don't need to.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: BlackBlade on December 16, 2010, 06:11:42 PM
I haven't seen Merry Christmas, Mr. Bean.  And now I don't need to.
Why not?  It sounds like you are saying you didn't see it.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: pooka on December 16, 2010, 06:40:56 PM
I guess it depends on your definition of "need".
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Annie Subjunctive on December 17, 2010, 02:21:35 PM
I'm pretty sure everyone needs to see Merry Christmas, Mr. Bean.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Scott R on December 20, 2010, 07:13:08 AM
I don't need to.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on December 20, 2010, 08:11:49 AM
I've got to agree with Annie on this one. 
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Scott R on December 20, 2010, 09:02:08 AM
You don't gotta.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on December 20, 2010, 09:29:23 AM
I do.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on December 20, 2010, 08:34:58 PM
I don't need to.
I'm going to have to agree with Scott on this one.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: BlackBlade on December 20, 2010, 08:45:13 PM
I don't need to.
I'm going to have to agree with Scott on this one.
That's not fair, Mr. Bean can't even state why you are mistaken.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on December 21, 2010, 07:02:30 AM
I agree with Rivka.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Scott R on December 21, 2010, 10:03:25 AM
Yeah, but you don't HAVE to agree with her.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on December 21, 2010, 10:32:38 AM
That's what YOU think.  >:D
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on December 21, 2010, 12:03:33 PM
I have to agree with you there, Scott.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: pooka on December 22, 2010, 05:24:14 PM
That's what YOU think.  >:D
I knew it, you two are the same person, namely Tom Davidson.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on January 14, 2011, 11:30:39 AM
From a book on German Latter-day Saints in World War II: even in wartime, love finds a way.

Quote
He was already a Wehrmacht soldier and as such was not free to visit her. In April 1943, he was given leave to go home to Bad Homburg and asked her to join him there. Just after they parted, she received a telegram with the text, "Do you want to be my wife? Please let me know immediately. Hans." Her reply was one word in the affirmative.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: BlackBlade on January 14, 2011, 01:37:53 PM
And I thought it was lame of my father to have asked my mother to marry him over the phone.  Hans just set a new standard.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on January 14, 2011, 01:43:03 PM
One of my coworkers noted that it's similar to asking someone to marry you in a text message.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: BlackBlade on January 14, 2011, 01:47:12 PM
One of my coworkers noted that it's similar to asking someone to marry you in a text message.
It's an apt comparison.  Besides Hans being gutless, why else wouldn't he have just asked her while they were together?  Is there some sort of cultural convention that it's improper for a man to ask a woman to marry him face to face?
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on January 14, 2011, 01:47:56 PM
One of my coworkers noted that it's similar to asking someone to marry you in a text message.
Except that a telegraph was far more expensive, and thus a fairly extravagant gesture.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on January 14, 2011, 01:51:01 PM
And another coworker suggested that maybe he didn't realize how much he missed her until after he'd left.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on January 14, 2011, 02:02:07 PM
That's how it always works in the movies!
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: BlackBlade on January 14, 2011, 02:10:54 PM
That's how it always works in the movies!
But it often does not end favorably in the movies.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on January 14, 2011, 02:20:56 PM
More often than not. They chase down the train, plane, automobile or what have you, and declare their love. Or follow after on the next train, plane, or automobile, and THEN declare their love.

Sometimes the person who has left is on foot, even. For example, Two Weeks Notice.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: pooka on January 14, 2011, 02:51:54 PM
I just keep thinking "Dear Rolfe. Stop.  Don't Stop!"
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: BlackBlade on January 14, 2011, 03:00:50 PM
More often than not. They chase down the train, plane, automobile or what have you, and declare their love. Or follow after on the next train, plane, or automobile, and THEN declare their love.

Sometimes the person who has left is on foot, even. For example, Two Weeks Notice.
In a Chinese movie, he would have been shot down by Americans, struggled to get back to her, and been killed after trying to show someboy a kindness.

If he had survived, she would have died or else married another.  The movie would have ended with anything but them being married.  Or if they were married, it would have inadvertently brought on horrible consequences.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on January 14, 2011, 03:10:47 PM
I just keep thinking "Dear Rolfe. Stop.  Don't Stop!"
  :D

BB, the closest I've gotten (or am likely to get) to watching a Chinese movie was The Joy Luck Club.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: BlackBlade on January 14, 2011, 03:28:02 PM
I just keep thinking "Dear Rolfe. Stop.  Don't Stop!"
  :D

BB, the closest I've gotten (or am likely to get) to watching a Chinese movie was The Joy Luck Club.
I really think you should give Not One Less a shot.  I don't know if it is still in Instant Queue, but it is one of the few with a happy ending.  Some other ones I have seen that end well that I highly recommend are Eat, Drink, Man, Woman. And, The Road Home, also, Together.  I think you could really enjoy those.  There is heart ache, but it's not as bad as some of the other Chinese movies I really enjoy.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on January 14, 2011, 03:46:02 PM
I really think you should give Not One Less a shot. 
It appears to be in the saved potion of my instant queue. Maybe when it comes back on instant.

Some other ones I have seen that end well that I highly recommend are Eat, Drink, Man, Woman.
I saw the Hispanic version (http://movies.netflix.com/Movie/Tortilla_Soup/60020787).
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: BlackBlade on January 14, 2011, 05:25:47 PM
I'd never even heard of Tortilla soup, but the plot synopsis didn't interest me as much.  The ending to Eat, Drink, Man, Woman is one of the most powerful moments in film for me.  I just love the actors expressions, it chokes me up every time.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: pooka on January 14, 2011, 06:09:18 PM
"The Road Home" was an excellent movie whose drama derives from emotion and not death. 
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on January 16, 2011, 12:11:16 PM
The ending to Eat, Drink, Man, Woman is one of the most powerful moments in film for me.  I just love the actors expressions, it chokes me up every time.
Tortilla Soup has a pretty good ending as well.

I probably wouldn't have seen it, except UCLA did a special showing for alumni a few years back. My mom and I went, enjoyed the movie, met the actors, and salivated over the yummy-smelling (non-kosher, of course) food -- provided by the same famous chefs who did the food for the movie.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Mucus on January 18, 2011, 08:35:09 AM
... If he had survived, she would have died or else married another.  The movie would have ended with anything but them being married.  Or if they were married, it would have inadvertently brought on horrible consequences.

Heh. I think I recall a funny interview where Jet Li was asked why he keeps on dying in his (mainland) Chinese films, my Google-fu fails me though so you'll have to take my word that it was amusing.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on January 18, 2011, 11:31:01 AM
I just came across an unfortunate name: Hugh Pugh. It's especially funny because the name Pugh comes from ap Hugh, which is Welsh for "son of Hugh".
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on January 18, 2011, 11:32:18 AM
Heh.  You said poo.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on January 18, 2011, 11:33:08 AM
No, I said pyoo.

(http://twentyseven.me/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/pew-pew-pew-small-778901.jpg)
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: BlackBlade on January 18, 2011, 12:01:30 PM
I just came across an unfortunate name: Hugh Pugh. It's especially funny because the name Pugh comes from ap Hugh, which is Welsh for "son of Hugh".
Sorta like John Johnson?
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on January 18, 2011, 12:06:34 PM
Yup. It's exactly sorta like John Johnson.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on January 18, 2011, 12:20:32 PM
Or Avraham Benavraham.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on January 18, 2011, 12:30:52 PM
Or Ben benBen.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: BlackBlade on January 18, 2011, 12:48:20 PM
Or Ben benBen.
I was going to suggest that or John Johnson, but obviously ended up on the latter.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on January 18, 2011, 01:39:48 PM
"Maybe we should add that to our marketing scam.  Um, I mean scheme."
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on January 18, 2011, 01:40:46 PM
Sorta like John Johnson?
Johnny Johnson was the nemesis of Jimmy James in News Radio.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Marianne Dashwood on January 21, 2011, 11:16:52 AM
"The Road Home" was an excellent movie whose drama derives from emotion and not death. 

How did I miss this? The Road Home is probably my favorite movie of all time ever. I recommend it to anyone with tastes even vaguely similar to mine.

Not One Less, on the other had, I could take or leave. It's a little heavy handed for me. Together is lovely, though.

If you're not into martial arts, Rivka, you can stop there, but if you're OK with martial arts and like beautiful cinematography check out Hero and House of Flying Daggers.

This message was not, believe it or not, sponsored by the Zhang Yimou Fan Club.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on January 21, 2011, 11:58:40 AM
"The Road Home" was an excellent movie whose drama derives from emotion and not death. 
I was with you until I realized you weren't talking about Road House with Patrick Swayzee. ;)
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Marianne Dashwood on January 22, 2011, 01:04:59 PM
So, I have my Ed Psych students write reflections on the chapters they read each week. I got this little jewel today:

Quote
Also in my teaching I am going to scaffolding my children b/c that is not only the theory but the requirement these days in public schools, why else would you talk about the same theorist Vygotsky in like 3 classes in this Educational program.  I mean he must be super improatnt to be mentioned in 3 different subjects.   And in this educational program at BYU last fall I felt like I was reading the same text book for at least 3 to 4 classes.  This Winter I feel I am reading the same text book for at least 3 of my classes why b/c you all love Vygostky.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: dkw on January 22, 2011, 04:11:19 PM
Was the chapter at least about scaffolding?
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: pooka on January 22, 2011, 06:20:49 PM
You gotta read some summaries of Vygotsky while simultaenously listening to your son practicing his laugh in front of the bathroom mirror.

P.S.  It's weird, I think Vygotsky's delineation between internal speech and external speech is probably closer, in present day America, to the delineation between spoken language and written language.  I think he must have lived in a a time when external speech was more similar to written language.  If I'm not merely imagining the existence of such a time.  

P.P.S.  But I can see why Vygotsky would be so hot.  His premise that it is imagination and pretending, and not clarity and logic, that separates us from the animals is so postmodern.

t.P.S.  Though in the end of my whirlwind tour of Vygotsky's ideas, I think I have to grant the idea of scaffolding as it might be applied to adult moral development is very interesting. 
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Marianne Dashwood on January 22, 2011, 11:20:09 PM
Most of what everyone loves about Vygotsky is the Zone of Proximal Development.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on March 29, 2011, 11:02:06 AM
I just had to share this story from a book about Germany during World War II:
Quote
During an air raid, . . . my mother and I came upon an elderly couple in the courtyard in the process of gathering propaganda leaflets, floating down from the sky. An American bomber had been kind enough to dump them on our property. The neighbors were aghast that we had caught them in a criminal activity. They asked if we would turn them in. I told them no, if they would share the precious leaflets with us, not to enlighten us, but for a much more mundane purpose. Toilet tissues had long been unavailable for purchase. Instead, we let the daily newspaper serve dual purposes. But since the newspaper printing plant had been bombed out, the leaflets, measuring about 8 ½ × 11 inches, cut into four sections, could serve not only cerebral but also posterior functions, courtesy of the 8th U.S. Air Force.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Brinestone on March 29, 2011, 11:09:58 AM
That's awesome!
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: BlackBlade on March 29, 2011, 01:55:35 PM
That makes me feel almost patriotic.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Farmgirl on March 31, 2011, 11:20:26 AM
Well, this isn't exactly about language and work -- but does tie in with some of the idiocracy we often experience at work.

In our company environment, Marketing department controls most web-based company/customer interactions  (intranet, internet web pages, social media outreaches, press releases, etc. etc.)  Our marketing department can be... difficult.. to work with.

One of my closest friends at work, works in the Internet Development department - trying to make Marketing's wishes come true from a web developer standpoint.

So this was part of the exchange of emails between them all earlier this week.  (I should explain that our company "brand" is that the company name, anywhere it appears, is all in caps -- i.e. XXXXXXX Bank, N.A.)  Has been that way ever since they changed to this name from the old "First National" name.
******************
Web Developer:   "Facebook has advised us that we can't have our page named XXXXXX Bank, because there are too many caps. They no longer allow entire word capitalization for business pages"

Marketing -- "This is a problem -- we used to have it that way for [XXXXX Other Page]!"

Web Developer:  "Yes, I know. We were grandfathered in for that one. This is a new Facebook rule."

Marketing: -- 'Well, this is just not going to work!!! It is very important that our brand is consistent among new and existing pages.  Talk to Facebook about it and asked them to override or drop that restriction!!!!"

Web Developer:  *face-palm*

****************

I teased him "So.. you just gonna call up ole Mark Zuckerberg and ask him to make an exception for you, are ya?"  ROFL

Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: fugu13 on March 31, 2011, 11:56:45 AM
Not Zuckerberg, of course, but Facebook does have a department for resolving exceptions, and they might be sympathetic to the argument that your bank really is XXXXXXXX Bank, with the caps. If you guys ask nicely and try to get to someone with sufficient decision-making power, it could work out.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Farmgirl on March 31, 2011, 12:03:04 PM
Well, Web Developer guy has so for been unsuccessful in making contact with ANYONE at FB via any means.  FB, even FB Help, doesn't exactly have a big flashing sign that says "click here for conflict resolution!"  LOL
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on March 31, 2011, 12:28:43 PM
Insisting on having your name appear in all caps is stupid, I think. It just doesn't look good. I used to work for a place that had half of its name in caps, and now they just have an initial cap. I think it looks much better that way.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: fugu13 on March 31, 2011, 12:39:40 PM
Posting on the forum would probably be a good start, but I think you'd be most likely to get assistance via their advertising arm (note: getting the name may require making a small facebook ad buy or somesuch): http://www.facebook.com/business/contact.php
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Farmgirl on March 31, 2011, 12:45:34 PM
Insisting on having your name appear in all caps is stupid, I think. It just doesn't look good. I used to work for a place that had half of its name in caps, and now they just have an initial cap. I think it looks much better that way.

Not arguing with you on that point.  Much of what Marketing does I think is stupid.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on March 31, 2011, 06:40:29 PM
Not from my work, but apparently from somebody's: “Please don’t send me something to proof if there are errors in it.” (http://clientsfromhell.net/post/4187456238/please-dont-send-me-something-to-proof-if-there)
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on June 09, 2011, 09:39:59 AM
Quote
When the war began, the district president was ——— ——— (born 1902), a real estate agent dealing with nautical properties.

I'm having a hard time wrapping my brain around the concept of "nautical properties".
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on June 09, 2011, 09:48:43 AM
Docks, marinas, shipyards, beachfront properties?
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on June 09, 2011, 10:03:54 AM
Well, Merriam-Webster says, "of, relating to, or associated with seamen, navigation, or ships", so that might work, but at the very least I don't think it's quite the right word. Beachfront properties don't necessarily have anything to do with seamen or ships, though docks and shipyards do.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on June 09, 2011, 10:27:54 AM
Well, a Google search for "nautical properties" turns up a lot of real estate sites for beachfront properties, so I guess it's a real thing.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on June 16, 2011, 03:01:34 PM
Quote
For most of my life, I was a nondenominational Christian, meaning I believed in Jesus Christ and Heavenly Father, but I never did anything about it.

This is not my understanding of what "nondenominational" means, but I'm not entirely sure what the author's going for. Any ideas?
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on June 16, 2011, 03:16:33 PM
It means that the author didn't belong to any specific church and didn't subscribe to any specific creed.  The author was not Methodist, was not Presbyterian, was not Lutheran, was not Baptist, etc..

It's right in line with what I understand the word to mean.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on June 16, 2011, 03:18:02 PM
But not belonging to a particular sect does not automatically entail not doing anything about one's faith.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on June 16, 2011, 03:19:30 PM
For the author, it apparently did.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on June 16, 2011, 03:23:31 PM
I highly doubt that it automatically entailed that or that it actually meant what the author said. As I said before, that's not what "nondenominational" means, unless you grant that the author has his own special meaning of the word that no one else uses. :p
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on June 16, 2011, 03:26:38 PM
Huh.  Reading it again, I guess that the author is saying that's what the word means. 

That's not how I read it at all, though, and I doubt that's what the author meant.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on June 16, 2011, 03:28:25 PM
I think the author intended what you got, which is that he didn't belong to any particular church and never acted on his faith. But for some reason I'm having a hard time coming up with a nice, concise substitute.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on June 16, 2011, 03:35:10 PM
Quote
But for some reason I'm having a hard time coming up with a nice, concise substitute.
The trouble is that you want it to be nice, concise, and accurate.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on June 16, 2011, 03:36:15 PM
I'm just difficult that way.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on June 16, 2011, 03:40:01 PM
How about:

Quote
For most of my life, I was a nondenominational Christian.  I believed in Jesus Christ and Heavenly Father, but I never did anything about it.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Marianne Dashwood on June 16, 2011, 03:54:44 PM
I would just take out the "meaning" and split it into two sentences. Remove the causality. Otherwise, that's rather offensive to nondenominational Christians.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Marianne Dashwood on June 16, 2011, 03:55:29 PM
Or, you know, what Porter just said on the second page I didn't read.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on June 16, 2011, 03:56:02 PM
Good suggestion. Or how about just changing it to "nonpracticing"?
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: BlackBlade on June 16, 2011, 04:39:18 PM
Porter's route seems fine. I like it better than nonpracticing, as nonpracticing implies that Christianity in practice requires church going. That would make Joseph Smith a nonpracticing Christian for a long time.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on June 16, 2011, 05:23:28 PM
I prefer not adding the word "nonpracticing" and any and all implications might come with it, but I disagree with BB as to what those implications are.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on June 16, 2011, 05:55:16 PM
Quote
For most of my life, I was a nondenominational Christian, meaning I believed in Jesus Christ and Heavenly Father, but I never did anything about it.
I'm going to go back and say that my original interpretation of this sentence was correct.

Mary Cate has a Relief Society activity tonight, which means that I need to figure out what I'm doing for dinner.

I'm not defining anything, but I'm describing a ramification of her having the activity tonight. 

Or, to use the author's slightly odd construction,

Mary Cate has a Relief Society activity tonight, meaning I need to figure out what I'm doing for dinner.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on June 17, 2011, 10:27:08 AM
Hmm. I still disagree. The OED says, "To signify; to convey or carry a meaning, significance, consequence, etc." I think that's a pretty apt definition. Your having to worry about dinner is a consequence of Mary Cate's not being there to make dinner. Not doing anything about his faith is not necessarily a consequence of his being nondenominational. Plenty of people are nondenominational but active churchgoers.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on June 17, 2011, 11:00:52 AM
Me cooking dinner is not necessarily a consequence of Mary Cate being gone.  Plenty of people don't cook dinner but have a spouse that is gone for the evening.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on June 17, 2011, 11:22:47 AM
But your having to cook dinner is a necessary consequence of your spouse being gone. His being inactive is not a necessary consequence of his being nondenominational.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Marianne Dashwood on June 17, 2011, 11:24:50 AM
I agree with Porter - I think you should just omit the implication of any sort of connection between the two.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on June 17, 2011, 11:40:39 AM
But your having to cook dinner is a necessary consequence of your spouse being gone.
No it wasn't.  I could have taken the kids out to dinner.  We could have gone hungry.  I could have convinced my kid to cook something they liked.  (This is what actually ended up happening, BTW.)

Quote
His being inactive is not a necessary consequence of his being nondenominational.
It wasn't a necessary consequence, but it was the consequence for him.  I don't know why you feel that it has to be a necessary consequence for the word to be used that way.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on June 17, 2011, 11:43:44 AM
But your having to cook dinner is a necessary consequence of your spouse being gone.
No it wasn't.  I could have taken the kids out to dinner.  We could have gone hungry.  I could have convinced my kid to cook they liked.  (This is what actually ended up happening, BTW.)

Let me rephrase: your having to worry about dinner was a consequence.

Quote
Quote
His being inactive is not a necessary consequence of his being nondenominational.
It wasn't a necessary consequence, but it was the consequence for him.  I don't know why you feel that it has to be a necessary consequence for the word to be used that way.

I don't think it's even a consequence. He's nondenominational and he doesn't do anything about his faith. I don't think there's any causal relationship at all, so I don't think it's correct to say that one means the other.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on June 17, 2011, 11:45:15 AM
I think that the author would disagree with your claim that there's no causal relationship at all.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on June 17, 2011, 01:54:04 PM
I think the author is a non-observant Christian.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Marianne Dashwood on June 17, 2011, 02:50:13 PM
I think that the author would disagree with your claim that there's no causal relationship at all.

See, I agree with this - I think the author is fully intending a causal relationship. But I think that would be offensive to others who read it.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on June 17, 2011, 03:00:10 PM
I think that's the problem to me. The author may perceive some causality or equivalency, but I don't think that makes it true, and I especially don't like the implication that it's true for anyone but himself.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on June 17, 2011, 03:06:33 PM
Are you objecting as an editor or as a reader?
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on June 17, 2011, 04:09:13 PM
Both?
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: BlackBlade on June 17, 2011, 04:14:05 PM
Both?
You should object as forum administrator too, that way it's a trifecta.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on June 17, 2011, 04:16:35 PM
Done!
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on June 17, 2011, 04:33:02 PM
Both?
Heh. As a reader, I agree with your objection. But were I editing, I think I would not -- the intent he (apparently) wishes to convey is being accurately conveyed. The sentence says what he wants it to.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Brinestone on June 17, 2011, 04:43:25 PM
But shouldn't a good editor consider how readers will take what the writer is saying and suggest a different way to write it to the author so as not to offend?
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on June 17, 2011, 04:53:57 PM
I am unconvinced that the average reader would find it either offensive or confusing.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on June 17, 2011, 06:00:04 PM
Both?
Heh. As a reader, I agree with your objection. But were I editing, I think I would not -- the intent he (apparently) wishes to convey is being accurately conveyed. The sentence says what he wants it to.

I disagree. And as Ruth says, I don't really see the distinction. And I don't get why you say, "As a reader, I agree with your objection," and then later, "I am unconvinced that the average reader would find it either offensive or confusing." Those sound contradictory to me.

As I've said, I think that while the author's intent may be clear, I think that what he says does not actually match his intent. I think it's sloppy and vague at best, so I have reworded it.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: BlackBlade on June 17, 2011, 06:02:00 PM
Growing up it always bugged me when kids in school would break out in Cantonese/Mandaring (but mostly Cantonese), so as to hold conversations, without any thought to the rest of us in the room. I get that some things are just easier to discuss in a certain language. It *really* angered me when they'd break into Cantonese explicitely to talk about somebody so that they could not understand. I accepted though that I was a minority, and that English while the official language of Hong Kong until 1997, was really the secondary language.

Now I am here working my job in Utah, and I feel the same feelings of being outcast but because I don't speak Spanish. Nobody has spoken in Spanish so as to exclude me, to be honest it probably isn't safe to do so, I can pick out plenty of words. But I just don't like the *every* person in the evening team defaults to Spanish when they talk about almost everything, even the caucasians. I'm probably not doing a good job of explaining why it bugs me, but I feel like if you need to get a few words out in another language fine, but make sure others nearby don't feel excluded/talked about.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on June 17, 2011, 07:55:27 PM
Those sound contradictory to me.
I don't consider myself an average reader.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on June 17, 2011, 10:08:39 PM
Right, but why would you agree with my objection as an above-average reader but then say the average reader wouldn't object?
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on June 17, 2011, 10:55:30 PM
I agree with everything Rivka has said on this matter.

Maybe that should be my sig...
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: dkw on June 18, 2011, 05:34:17 AM
In my experience there are two almost completely contradictory uses of the term "non-denominational" when applied to Christianity.  The first is the sort of generic Christian that the author in question seems to be referring to -- it's what's usually meant by non-denominational chapels at hospitals and airports and non-denominational prayers at public events.  But when someone says they go to a non-denominational church it is more likely to mean a church that is not that sort of "generically" Christian but is not associated with a denomination either because they strongly believe that church governing authority is vested in the local congregation, or because they were started by a charismatic pastor who holds onto authority, or because their particular interpretation of Christianity is so particular that they don't agree with the teachings of any denomination.

And, again in my experience, a person who refers to themselves as a non-denominational Christian is more likely to be meaning it in the second sense.  The person who means it in the first sense is more likely, if asked his/her religion, to just say Christian. 

Which is all to say, I think Jonathon is right to change it.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Brinestone on June 18, 2011, 07:20:14 AM
My understanding of nondenominational matches precisely what Dana described. It has nothing to do with not going to church.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: BlackBlade on June 18, 2011, 07:22:06 AM
Dana pretty much nailed what I was thinking when I read the phrase.

Also, I'm still annoyed about Cantonese and Spanish, but I feel so alone in my frustration.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Marianne Dashwood on June 18, 2011, 07:52:06 AM
Wait, what happened with Cantonese and Spanish?
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: BlackBlade on June 18, 2011, 07:59:07 AM
It's about seven posts above your post.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Marianne Dashwood on June 20, 2011, 10:05:52 AM
I'm doing some qualitative coding on student course evaluations. I'm rather fond of this one:

Quote
Professor J you are a beast. Your tests are animals and there is nothing wrong with that just know you are a very difficult teacher, especially considering this is a 100 level class. Your T.A.s are the saving grace of the class. Without them we would be destroyed.

I'm not quite sure how to mark it though. Positive experience in the class? Negative experience in the class? Maybe I need to make a category for beastly experiences in the class.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Marianne Dashwood on June 24, 2011, 04:20:43 PM
"I generally wore boring, plain headbands, despite my deep inner desire to be girly and colorful. "
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: pooka on June 26, 2011, 06:52:26 PM
Too bad that wasn't from the era when more athletes wore headbands. 
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on July 07, 2011, 10:36:24 PM
Quote
especially since it is his first name and not his sir name
:D
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on July 07, 2011, 10:40:04 PM
Nice eggcorn!
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on July 07, 2011, 11:33:09 PM
I was amused. And when catching up on weeks' worth of listserv messages, that's always helpful.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on July 27, 2011, 01:40:17 PM
Quote
This mannerism, however, was not dictated by revelation nor was it explicitly implied in journal accounts
Given the inherent difficulty in explicitly implying anything, I can see why it didn't happen.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on July 27, 2011, 02:38:42 PM
*snicker*
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on July 27, 2011, 02:39:17 PM
Quote
However, the efforts of neither could be completed without the other.

It's interesting how this reads to me quite differently from "neither one's efforts could be completed without the other's." Is it just me? I think moving the "neither" completely changes the scope of the negation.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on July 27, 2011, 03:21:39 PM
It's not just you.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on July 27, 2011, 04:35:11 PM
Oh, good. Sometimes, when you've read too many student papers, everything starts sounding weird.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on July 27, 2011, 06:39:48 PM
I am familiar with the phenomenon.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on July 28, 2011, 08:24:17 AM
Quote
However, the efforts of neither could be completed without the other.

It's interesting how this reads to me quite differently from "neither one's efforts could be completed without the other's." Is it just me? I think moving the "neither" completely changes the scope of the negation.
It doesn't change the scope at all for me.  How does it change for you?
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on July 28, 2011, 10:05:08 AM
It doesn't really make sense, but it sounds like the efforts could be completed without the other's efforts.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on July 28, 2011, 01:05:59 PM
Well, I agree that your interpretation doesn't make sense.  ???
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on July 28, 2011, 03:57:42 PM
Maybe I'm just doing a crappy job of explaining it. Or maybe it's because I'm one of those people who think that "everybody doesn't like ice cream" is not the same as "not everybody likes ice cream".
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on July 28, 2011, 04:18:53 PM
Quote
Or maybe it's because I'm one of those people who think that "everybody doesn't like ice cream" is not the same as "not everybody likes ice cream".
I can certainly see how those can be parsed to mean different things.  Not so with the quote from work.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on August 03, 2011, 01:57:29 PM
Overheard just now: "I have no less than at least ten cowlicks."
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: BlackBlade on August 03, 2011, 02:29:54 PM
Overheard just now: "I have no less than at least ten cowlicks."
I don't even know what that's supposed to mean.

-----

As an aside I just received an email with the signature at the bottom "Money cannot buy happiness, but it’s more comfortable to cry in a Mercedes than it is on a bicycle."

Leaving the moral issues aside, there is a very famous quote echoed in China that has become current as a sort of symbol for the rising generations spoiled nature and self centeredness. Essentially a TV show hostess who since saying this has gone on to even more fame and fortune said, "I would rather weep in a BMW than smile on a bicycle."

Is this phrase or another iteration of it more common place and older than I had supposed? Or is it evolving? Developed independently?
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on August 03, 2011, 02:34:30 PM
Overheard just now: "I have no less than at least ten cowlicks."
I don't even know what that's supposed to mean.

It means the same thing as "I have no less than ten cowlicks" or "I have at least ten cowlicks". I just thought the combination was funny.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: BlackBlade on August 03, 2011, 02:41:26 PM
Overheard just now: "I have no less than at least ten cowlicks."
I don't even know what that's supposed to mean.

It means the same thing as "I have no less than ten cowlicks" or "I have at least ten cowlicks". I just thought the combination was funny.
I don't even know what the phrase, "I have no less than ten cowlicks" is supposed to mean. Is it not a phrase, is it just a statement of quantity they goofed up?
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on August 03, 2011, 02:53:44 PM
The speaker just inserted a superfluous quantifier. I'm not sure what part is unclear. Do you know what a cowlick is? I only ask because for years I thought the word was "callick", because that's how people around here pronounce it.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: BlackBlade on August 03, 2011, 02:59:53 PM
The speaker just inserted a superfluous quantifier. I'm not sure what part is unclear. Do you know what a cowlick is?
Yes. It sounds like I was assuming the phrase had some special folksy meaning, when it doesn't. It's no different than somebody saying, "I have no less than at least $10".
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on August 03, 2011, 03:00:55 PM
Right. The context was that someone was talking about having gotten a haircut, so there was no special meaning to it.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: The Genuine on August 03, 2011, 03:04:51 PM
Short of shaving it off, is a cowlick the sort of thing you can style around?  I figured they were more like fingerprints.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Marianne Dashwood on August 03, 2011, 03:25:23 PM
BB, I'm really proud of myself for knowing the Chinese saying and thinking of it before you brought it up :)

I think the English quote is liable to be a passed-around translation of the Chinese saying.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: dkw on August 03, 2011, 03:26:47 PM
Short of shaving it off, is a cowlick the sort of thing you can style around?  I figured they were more like fingerprints.

A good haircut can camouflage them pretty well.  
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on August 03, 2011, 04:05:24 PM
BB, I'm really proud of myself for knowing the Chinese saying and thinking of it before you brought it up :)

I think the English quote is liable to be a passed-around translation of the Chinese saying.

Huh?
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: BlackBlade on August 03, 2011, 04:15:15 PM
BB, I'm really proud of myself for knowing the Chinese saying and thinking of it before you brought it up :)

I think the English quote is liable to be a passed-around translation of the Chinese saying.
I'm quite pleased you were in the loop on it. :)

I learned it in Beijing last summer, it's still a pretty hot topic for gossip there these days. Another interesting anecdote a teacher related to me is that on a dating game show they have a panel of girls select from a group of eligible bachelors. This one very handsome guy on the show was doing very well and seemed to be the clear favorite of most of the girls until he was asked what car he drove to work. He indicated he rode a bike and immediately all the girls went cold and he left the show without any offers for dates. Upon being interviewed it was revealed that he is in fact very well to do and that while he could afford many many cars, and that he owns a nice one, it stays in the garage. He chooses to bike to work because his office is very close to his home, and he felt it was better for the environment to avoid driving if possible.

There was an explosion of discussions online after that episode of the show aired. One might think all those girls have egg on their face but in reality it's a disturbing trend in China where not only are there more and more males and fewer and fewer females, the females that are available expect specfic indicators of wealth before they will even consider dating a man. Not that that is unique to China, but it's still unpleasant to watch happen.

---
Quote
Huh?
Jonathon: She's responding to the second part of my original post I made in response to yours. The part about it being more comfortable to cry in a Mercedez than on a bicycle, and the China stuff.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on August 03, 2011, 04:27:59 PM
Ah, gotcha.

<–tired brain
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on August 04, 2011, 10:28:43 AM
Urgh. This is some of the deadest, most lifeless prose I've read in a while, but it's already typeset, so there's no chance of rewriting it now.

Quote
This volume is filled with gripping and fascinating stories of members of the LDS Church in West Germany and Austria during World War II. Learn about the conditions the German Saints faced during World War II. They did not have access to the many conveniences American Saints took for granted—including their local Church leaders, clean places to meet, cars, and temples. Germany was one of the war fronts where homes were destroyed and friends and families were killed. Unlike American soldiers returning to their homes, nearly half of the German Saints had no home to which to return. Hundreds of them served in the German military, while thousands more stayed home and endeavored to keep their families and the Church alive. Their stories of joy and suffering are presented in this book. Readers will be touched at the faith and dedication shown by these Saints—young and old, military and civilian.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: BlackBlade on August 04, 2011, 10:44:24 AM
"German Saints in WWII: We had it worse in every way."

Take that!
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on August 10, 2011, 11:57:45 AM
Worst opening sentence I've read in a while:

Quote
In order to survive for any length of time, and to perform the tasks needed to ensure future survival, humans need a regular supply of food and water.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on August 10, 2011, 12:27:33 PM
I sometimes think I'm incapable of recognizing bad writing.  My reaction to that sentence is to nod my head and say "Yup.  That makes sense.".
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on August 10, 2011, 12:30:39 PM
It's an opening to an article about the symbolism of feasting in the ancient Near East. The problem isn't that it doesn't make sense, but that it's so blindingly obvious that nobody needs to be told that. Humans need food and water to survive? No *@#$, Sherlock.

The article is about the symbolism of feasting in the ancient Near East. Establishing some background is the norm in scholarly papers, but this is a little ridiculous.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: BlackBlade on August 10, 2011, 01:24:09 PM
Would it have been better if he perhaps contrasted the difficulty (if any) in procuring food and water, whereas today in many cultures we take it for granted that those things are available?
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on August 10, 2011, 01:46:46 PM
In generations past, obtaining food and water involved arduous and sometimes dangerous treks to the grocery store and to the sink, but in today's society, Peapod.com will deliver food and bottled water to your door.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on August 10, 2011, 01:58:01 PM
Would have been better if he perhaps contrasted the difficulty (if any) in procuring food and water, whereas today in many cultures we take it for granted that those things are available?

I don't think so. It's totally irrelevant to the article.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: BlackBlade on August 10, 2011, 02:35:31 PM
Would have been better if he perhaps contrasted the difficulty (if any) in procuring food and water, whereas today in many cultures we take it for granted that those things are available?

I don't think so. It's totally irrelevant to the article.
Your mom is irrelevant to the article.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on August 10, 2011, 03:06:30 PM
And for that very reason, she is not mentioned in it even once.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: BlackBlade on August 10, 2011, 03:24:06 PM
And for that very reason, she is not mentioned in it even once.
It's OK, go ahead and edit her into the acknowledgements section. Perhaps even the dedication page.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on August 11, 2011, 09:20:44 AM
My husband dedicated his dissertation to me.  :wub:  :p
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Brinestone on August 11, 2011, 12:42:55 PM
What was it on?
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: BlackBlade on August 11, 2011, 01:18:00 PM
"Where the hell is my ord.....oh hey UPS just pulled in BAI!"

...
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: BlackBlade on August 11, 2011, 04:36:07 PM
"Approximately one week ago I received an order of X. I did not realize that it would also be Unflavored. Actually a more accurate description would be Distasteful."

My customers are so funny sometimes. Also I'm not sure why they capitalized 'unflavored' and 'unsweetened'.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on August 12, 2011, 02:31:27 AM
What was it on?

Some combinatorics thing that I never could quite understand. He lost me by the second paragraph.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: The Genuine on August 12, 2011, 07:57:31 AM
How many paragraphs long was it?
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on August 12, 2011, 08:54:10 AM
Lots!
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: pooka on August 15, 2011, 05:37:24 AM
What was it on?
Paper.  :runs and hides:
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on August 31, 2011, 10:28:37 PM
Quote
Just like the Jones’, [omitted] has to keep up. 
ack!!!
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on August 31, 2011, 10:47:49 PM
At least it wasn't "Jone's", which I have seen before.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on August 31, 2011, 11:22:36 PM
As have I.

This was in an attachment sent out by a government agency to about 20,000 financial aid folk regarding an upcoming conference.  >_<
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on August 31, 2011, 11:30:27 PM
*facepalm*
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on September 01, 2011, 12:48:18 AM
Exactly.

Now, if only there were some way to use the fact that I noticed that to help bolster the application I am in the process of completing for a job with said organization -- which does involve editing as part of the job description.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Marianne Dashwood on September 01, 2011, 10:43:34 AM
I have a last name that ends in s. I have spent my life battling people who want to pluralize it with an apostrophe.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on September 01, 2011, 11:02:40 AM
Whereas I have spent my life battling people who want to pluralize my last name with ses.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: BlackBlade on September 01, 2011, 11:36:12 AM
I've spent my life not trying to battle people who change my first name into the more common variation Tyler. I figure if God and even Jesus deal with having all those variations on their names, I shouldn't fight a fight they're not willing to wage.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: dkw on September 05, 2011, 10:41:58 AM
Switching out a "t" for an "s" in the word intertextuality is a particularly unfortunate typo.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on September 05, 2011, 11:18:34 AM
*snerk*
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: dkw on September 07, 2011, 09:23:13 AM
It was not my typo, for the record.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on September 30, 2011, 09:34:45 AM
I'm editing a chapter on the Civil War that feels in places like it's a very rough draft. Some of it borders on incomprehensible.

Quote
The nomination for president of former general George McClellan, who hoped to arrange a “negotiated peace” with the recalcitrant Southerners, would ended the bloodletting concept of putting “ole Abe” out to pasture.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: BlackBlade on September 30, 2011, 09:54:21 AM
Brrr, I don't like George McClellan. But I hate that sentence even more!
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: pooka on September 30, 2011, 10:58:03 PM
I got as far as "would ended" and then they totally lost me. 
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on September 30, 2011, 11:10:26 PM
Yeah, it's fine up until then. I have no idea what it's supposed to mean past that point. Ousting Lincoln was a bloodletting concept? Huh?
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: BlackBlade on October 01, 2011, 04:12:57 AM
Does it matter so far as that sentence is concerned that McClellan was still a general throughout his campaign (they were much shorter then) and did not technically resign his commission until election day?
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: pooka on October 01, 2011, 11:30:29 AM
I'm not sure if it's supposed to be "would have ended" or "would have ended with."  
p.s.  I guess they are trying to compare ousting Lincoln with purging the administration, and possibly with getting new blood in.  Though the more easily associated concept is that Lincoln's war policy was draining the Union of blood, which is why it's so confusing.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: BlackBlade on October 01, 2011, 01:18:09 PM
I was speaking more to the phrase, "former General..."
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: pooka on October 03, 2011, 05:29:18 PM
Someone I consulted suggestedV
Quote
"The nomination for president of former general George McClellan, who hoped to arrange a “negotiated peace” with the recalcitrant Southerners to end the bloodletting, was made with the concept of putting “ole Abe” out to pasture."

Now I have to check the original.

Quote
The nomination for president of former general George McClellan, who hoped to arrange a “negotiated peace” with the recalcitrant Southerners, would ended the bloodletting concept of putting “ole Abe” out to pasture.

Hmm.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on October 06, 2011, 02:16:17 PM
From one of my listservs:
Quote
A reporter just tweeted about how surprised she was that many colleges misspell the word "FAFSA" as "FASFA".

Out of curiosity, I ran a specialized Google search to count the number of such typos on .edu sites, and found that there were 22,400 mentions of FASFA compared with 1,140,000 mentions of FAFSA. That's about a 2% error rate. Even the most elite colleges have such errors. I even found one college web site which had /fasfa/ as part of the URL.

The fact that FAFSA does not appear in the spelling dictionaries may contribute to the error, since both FAFSA and FASFA are missing. Also, the digraph "fs" is rare within English, mainly appearing at the end of plural words, while the digraph "sf" is much more common.

Another common typo is "finacial aid", appearing 6,830 times compared with 35,800,000 times for "financial aid". Other common typos include eduation, educaton, eligiblity, scholarsihps, scholorships, and scolarships.

Having typos like this isn't necessarily bad, since many students make similar typos, so the presence of the typos may make it easier for students to find the right pages.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: pooka on October 06, 2011, 04:12:51 PM
:faceplam:

(In seriousness, I question whether sf occurs more often than fs)
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on October 06, 2011, 04:59:28 PM
Google: Low PageRank & Bad Spelling May Go Hand-In-Hand (http://searchengineland.com/google-pagerank-spelling-correlation-95821)
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: pooka on October 06, 2011, 05:51:25 PM
I am fascinated to learn that the term "content farm" exists for those crap sites.  That would make a good submission for that language place that sponsored your contest. 
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on October 10, 2011, 01:53:56 PM
Recently shared (with IDing info removed) by a fellow registrar:

Quote
Hello there,
 
This may be an odd question but I have 2 degrees and a minor from [school] (B.S. Criminal Justice, [other degree]).  Can I get one of those degrees off my record?  I'd rather not have the Criminal Justice degree I earned so I'm wondering if there's anything I can do?  I ran afoul of the law so I'd rather not have that degree anymore :)
 
I would seriously and sincerely appreciate it if you could look into this matter.
 
Many thanks in advance,
[name]
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on October 10, 2011, 01:58:26 PM
*facepalm*
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on October 10, 2011, 02:39:43 PM
Perhaps I ought to have given up my nursing degree when I got sick.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Marianne Dashwood on October 10, 2011, 02:55:28 PM
That is pretty great.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Nighthawk on October 11, 2011, 10:48:37 AM
So not having a degree means I can pretty much do whatever the hell I want with blatant disregard and no concern for my personal record? Woohoo!!!
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: BlackBlade on October 11, 2011, 02:48:59 PM
So not having a degree means I can pretty much do whatever the hell I want with blatant disregard and no concern for my personal record? Woohoo!!!
I think it was more he wanted to expunge the criminal justice degree so that when he had his day in court, that degree would not make him look worse.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Dobie on October 11, 2011, 03:33:21 PM
I think he wants to disassociate himself from the criminal justice system he probably blames for his troubles.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on November 07, 2011, 09:01:09 AM
Quote
Matsuri are festivals that center on the shrine. Generally they are attended by the whole village, and even if persons never darken the door of the shrine at other times of year, they turn out for matsuri, of which there is a variety. These are fun times.

Sure sounds like a blast!
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Marianne Dashwood on November 07, 2011, 09:20:27 AM
Not just a blast - fun times.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on November 07, 2011, 09:33:11 AM
No times are better than fun times.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on November 07, 2011, 09:53:05 AM
Well, there's the New York Times.  That's some really good times right there.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on November 09, 2011, 08:52:26 AM
Quote
"It's nice to just quibble about very small things."
"Isn't that what we get paid for?"

I thought it was to fix errors.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on November 17, 2011, 11:10:48 AM
Quote
The Chinese enjoyed life and families, and so the Theravada form [of Buddhism], which required the ascetic life, was not especially attractive to them.

As opposed to all those other cultures that hate life and families.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: dkw on November 17, 2011, 12:25:33 PM
How serendipitous.  I'm reading this thread on a break in a lecture that just mentioned the first attempts to introduce Theravada Buddhism into China.   
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: The Genuine on November 17, 2011, 12:27:49 PM
Is that serendipity or coincidence?
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: dkw on November 17, 2011, 12:31:15 PM
I found it amusing, therefore it was a happy coincidence, thus serendipitous.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on November 17, 2011, 12:40:24 PM
If it's a happy coincidence for you, do you want to edit this book for me? ;) This guy's prose is flat and lifeless, and he starts every other sentence with "thus" or "hence" or "therefore". It's really tedious.

Also, that's the entirety of the discussion about why Theravada did not take in China.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: dkw on November 17, 2011, 12:53:31 PM
If it's a happy coincidence for you, do you want to edit this book for me?

Nope.  The happy part was that the giggle cleared my head a little.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on November 17, 2011, 12:56:43 PM
Well, I guess that's worth something.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Marianne Dashwood on November 17, 2011, 02:52:47 PM
Quote
The Chinese enjoyed life and families, and so the Theravada form [of Buddhism], which required the ascetic life, was not especially attractive to them.

As opposed to all those other cultures that hate life and families.

Will you please write this in the margin? Please?
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: BlackBlade on November 17, 2011, 03:23:16 PM
Quote
The Chinese enjoyed life and families, and so the Theravada form [of Buddhism], which required the ascetic life, was not especially attractive to them.

As opposed to all those other cultures that hate life and families.

Will you please write this in the margin? Please?
Jonathon: 請接受她的建議!

I love how google translate (which I didn't use to write that) says, "Please accept her proposal" as the translation if I omit the exclamation mark. With the exclamation mark in, it translates to "Please accept her suggestions!"  Apparently one cannot exclaim one's proposals in Chinese.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on November 21, 2011, 09:07:17 AM
". . . or do we minus the amounts . . ."

aaaaaaaaauuuuuuuuuuuuggggghhhhhhhhhhhhh!
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on November 21, 2011, 10:13:40 AM
 >_<
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: BlackBlade on November 21, 2011, 12:26:20 PM
Oh man, that grates on the mind.

Edit: In other news a customer said, "I can't hardly hear you." I very nearly corrected her grammar.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on November 21, 2011, 04:04:35 PM
"I can't hardly hear you." is perfectly understandable.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on November 21, 2011, 04:09:13 PM
True, but it's also widely considered incorrect. Intelligibility is not the only determiner of whether something is considered correct or standard.

But I'd recommend against correcting a customer's grammar.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: BlackBlade on November 21, 2011, 04:57:40 PM
"I can't hardly hear you." is perfectly understandable.
If the person was indicating that the value representing their ability to hear me was anything but "hardly" then yes.

edit: But most people don't mean that.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on November 21, 2011, 05:15:55 PM
I think Porter is saying that you knew what was intended, even though it may not logically match what they said.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on November 21, 2011, 07:42:18 PM
Intelligibility is not the only determiner of whether something is considered correct or standard.
And thank goodness for that.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on November 21, 2011, 07:46:27 PM
Could you elaborate? I'm not trying to trap you or anything—I'm just curious what your thoughts are.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on November 21, 2011, 07:56:16 PM
Yes, I know that it's widely considered incorrect.   If somebody wrote that for an English paper, I'd absolutely advise them to change it.  But in spoken English, I think it's a perfectly reasonable variation.  

I disagree with the notion that a double negative must logically mean a positive.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on November 21, 2011, 08:33:41 PM
Outside of an instructional situation (teacher, parent, etc.), I think it would be extremely obnoxious to correct that sort of non-standard English phrasing.

I'd agree. There are few cases where it's acceptable to correct someone else's language.

Quote
I disagree with the notion that a double negative must logically mean a positive.

(Disclaimer: I'm by no means an expert in logic.) It depends on what your axioms are. Two negatives can mean a positive, and in standard English they often do, but there's usually contrastive stress applied: "I didn't not do my homework." But nonstandard varieties that use multiple negation don't usually do this—they just distribute the negation, without extra stress, throughout the sentence, like "I didn't do no homework." The first sentence might be represented as something like –(–(do homework)), while the second might be (–do) (–homework). There's no reason to assume that the first negative has to have scope over the whole phrase, thus cancelling out the second.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on November 21, 2011, 08:59:50 PM
Could you elaborate? I'm not trying to trap you or anything—I'm just curious what your thoughts are.
That way lies arguments about whether that horrible jumbled paragraph (the one that was ubiquitous for a bit a few years back) really is or is not readable, and just how hard it is or is not to decode. There are, IMO, enough accepted-usage ways to say most things that there is no reason to argue for the acceptability of most incorrect usages simply because it is possible to decode what the speaker/writer probably meant. Intelligibility is far too subjective and slippery to be the only (or primary) question.

Outside of an instructional situation (teacher, parent, etc.), I think it would be extremely obnoxious to correct that sort of non-standard English phrasing.
I'd agree. There are few cases where it's acceptable to correct someone else's language.
I entirely agree. When I responded to the listserv post I quoted above (the "minus" one), I said nothing about her usage. I just vented here. ;)
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on November 21, 2011, 09:26:24 PM
"I can't hardly hear you." is perfectly understandable.

Unless, of course, the reason they can't hardly hear is because there's a bad phone connection.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on November 21, 2011, 10:24:01 PM
That way lies arguments about whether that horrible jumbled paragraph (the one that was ubiquitous for a bit a few years back) really is or is not readable, and just how hard it is or is not to decode. There are, IMO, enough accepted-usage ways to say most things that there is no reason to argue for the acceptability of most incorrect usages simply because it is possible to decode what the speaker/writer probably meant. Intelligibility is far too subjective and slippery to be the only (or primary) question.

I definitely agree that it's not the only question or even the primary one, as there are many possible sentences that are intelligible but not grammatical (in standard or any other English). And intelligibility isn't a binary feature but a whole spectrum. And intelligibility and grammaticality aside, there's the whole issue of style, which is a whole nother can of worms.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on November 21, 2011, 11:17:59 PM
/me nods vigorously
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: BlackBlade on November 21, 2011, 11:51:12 PM
The reason it strikes me as bad usage is somebody who says, "I can't hardly hear you" is either saying they hear me just fine, or they can't hear me at all, not even hardly.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on November 22, 2011, 12:02:49 AM
If someone says they can't hardly hear you, they are asking you to talk louder. To me, there is no confusion about that.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: BlackBlade on November 22, 2011, 12:25:05 AM
I know that's what people mean. But if they want to say that, then they can say, "I can't hear you" or "I can hardly hear you". Mixing the phrases just creates a circumstance where the words don't actually mean what they appear to mean on the surface.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on November 22, 2011, 04:24:45 AM
Only if you think about it too much.  I'd advise against thinking about it too much because it makes you look like a judgmental snob to whomever you correct.  Even if you are not a judgmental snob.

In any event, I think the proper idiom is "I CAIN'T hardly hear you", not "I CAN'T hardly hear you".  Not that I'd correct anyone on that.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on November 22, 2011, 09:56:21 AM
Taylor: What you're essentially talking about is a mismatch between the locution and the illocution (http://www.csun.edu/~vcoao0el/de361/de361s62_folder/tsld014.htm). That is, it's clear that the speaker meant one thing, even though their words literally mean another thing (given certain assumptions about how multiple negation works). And for your perlocution—how you receive it—you're favoring the literal rendering of the locution over the speaker's illocution. There's not necessarily anything wrong with that, but I think it's important to keep in mind that the literal meaning of an utterance is not the only guide to interpreting its meaning.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: BlackBlade on November 22, 2011, 12:54:39 PM
It's bugs me, and I imagine that won't change.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on November 22, 2011, 01:14:29 PM
Dunno.  I used to be the same way, but I got soft and mellow, like a stale malted milk ball, in my old age.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on November 22, 2011, 01:23:37 PM
It's bugs me, and I imagine that won't change.

It bugs me too, though I just silently let it pass by. (Except for one of my former coworkers, because sometimes it's fun to razz editors about their nonstandard usage.)

I was just trying to point out that "when someone says ____, they're really saying ____" is just one piece of the puzzle.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: BlackBlade on November 22, 2011, 01:27:44 PM
Dunno.  I used to be the same way, but I got soft and mellow, like a stale malted milk ball, in my old age.
I can't hardly parse your comparison.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Noemon on November 22, 2011, 03:45:28 PM
When I was in grade school the teacher asked a classmate of mine if she had done something, and the kid responded by saying "I has done did it". It kind of blew my mind at the time, because it seemed so much more involved than just "I've done it" would have been. Is there a dialect in which you'll find a construction like that, or was she just spewing words randomly?
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Farmgirl on November 23, 2011, 12:40:20 PM
It blows my mind that you can remember a random conversation from grade school....
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on November 23, 2011, 03:47:39 PM
If Jake's grade school (and memory) is at all like mine, snippets of random conversations and the odd absurdity are all he remembers from grade school.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Noemon on November 23, 2011, 06:11:37 PM
It blows my mind that you can remember a random conversation from grade school....
That particular remark really blew my mind.

Actually, though, my recall of my childhood used to be incredibly detailed. In recent years chunks of it have slipped away, though, which is sad. Makes me think I should start writing down what I can still recall of it.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on November 23, 2011, 06:25:28 PM
When I was in grade school the teacher asked a classmate of mine if she had done something, and the kid responded by saying "I has done did it". It kind of blew my mind at the time, because it seemed so much more involved than just "I've done it" would have been. Is there a dialect in which you'll find a construction like that, or was she just spewing words randomly?

I honestly don't know. There are probably a lot of dialects in which you might find something like "I done it" or "I done did it", but I don't know about that particular combination. How old were you at the time? If you were pretty young, it could just be because kids haven't fully mastered grammar yet.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Noemon on November 23, 2011, 06:44:13 PM
I believe we were in 2nd grade. It might have been 3rd, though.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: pooka on November 25, 2011, 10:31:36 AM
Someone probably had recently corrected her so she was trying to incorporate that.  

I remember the day they (the teacher and co-teacher) put a kid in the middle of a circle of all the children and tried to get him to pronounce "three" and not "free" and he wound up crying.  It's stuff like that makes me really not like prescriptivists.  If the person has not got the ear for what you're pointing out to them, it's just flat mean.  And it's actually the prescriptivist who is ignorant of what is really going on.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Marianne Dashwood on November 25, 2011, 09:53:56 PM
Or the child had the ear for it but hadn't developed the motor ability to produce the sound. That's the worst thing. A lot of children can perceive differences long before they can produce them.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on December 08, 2011, 10:04:07 AM
Quote
They cannot expect to have so many horses, cattle, and wagons to haul themselves and luggage over the mountains; and this will open up the way most effectually for many of the Saints to enjoy that anticipates, and, with many, long-desired privilege of walking over the plains.

I stared at this ungrammatical nightmare for at least five minutes before I finally realized that "anticipates" should be "anticipated".
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: BlackBlade on December 08, 2011, 03:06:03 PM
I only have the flimsiest of grasps as to what they were trying to say.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on December 08, 2011, 03:11:10 PM
It was in the context of how Saints immigrating to the US shouldn't bring tons of crap with them, because it would cost too much and slow them down. The author was saying that many people had anticipated and had long desired to come across the plains, and packing lighter would enable them to do so.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Marianne Dashwood on December 08, 2011, 05:46:56 PM
Even with "anticipated" I still can't figure it out. Was it written by a Chinese person?
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on December 08, 2011, 06:28:46 PM
Doubtful. But it's from 1852, so it sounds a little odd.

How about this: "This will open up the way most effectually for many of the Saints to enjoy that privilege of walking over the plains."

The privilege of walking over the plains was anticipated.

For many, the privilege of walking over the plains was also long desired.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: BlackBlade on December 08, 2011, 08:06:08 PM
I could barely stand driving over the plains. These people were nuts, crazy Mormon pioneer nuts.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: pooka on December 08, 2011, 09:24:06 PM
Well, many of them had been moved off from place to place and they decided rather than keeping up with the 150 mile hops they'd just go a good long ways and be done with.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: BlackBlade on December 08, 2011, 10:00:37 PM
Well, many of them had been moved off from place to place and they decided rather than keeping up with the 150 mile hops they'd just go a good long ways and be done with.
So if you were driven from home to home you'd be looking forward to a big long trek across the plains where you could setup home again?
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on December 08, 2011, 10:33:57 PM
This is talking about emigrants from the British Isles. They hadn't been driven from place to place.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on December 09, 2011, 02:33:47 AM
This is talking about emigrants from the British Isles. They hadn't been driven from place to place.

That's why they had to walk.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: pooka on December 09, 2011, 07:22:30 AM
Well, many of them had been moved off from place to place and they decided rather than keeping up with the 150 mile hops they'd just go a good long ways and be done with.
So if you were driven from home to home you'd be looking forward to a big long trek across the plains where you could setup home again?
I hope never to find out.  You don't think that had anything to do with it?  (Talking here about my read of the original quote and not Jonathon's explanation that it was British immigrants)
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on February 22, 2012, 07:15:31 PM
Title of email sent to listserv:
Quote
Communication with students on subsidized elimination

Um, I don't think you meant what you just said . . .
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Brinestone on February 22, 2012, 07:20:51 PM
That would be a new government low.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on February 22, 2012, 08:08:14 PM
Indeed.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: BlackBlade on February 22, 2012, 09:06:59 PM
Indeed.
War certainly seems to be a form of "subsidized elimination".
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on February 24, 2012, 11:52:02 AM
I'm working on a book whose author apparently hates expletive (or dummy) it. I'm constantly running across sentences like "When Garn finished his translation of the Voice of Warning is not known." It's not only stilted, but it makes for garden-path sentences. I expect the "when" to start a dependent clause before the main clause of the sentence. Instead that dependent clause ends up being the subject. I think it's much more natural to say "It is not known when Garn finished his translation of the Voice of Warning."
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: fugu13 on February 25, 2012, 07:44:53 PM
I think "No one knows when Garn finished his translation of the Voice of Warning" or "There's no conclusive evidence for when Garn finished his translation of the Voice of Warning" are even more natural and readable (though believe me I understand a lot of academics would have apoplexy over using such phrasings).
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: pooka on March 01, 2012, 09:55:23 AM
"Precisely when..." ?
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on March 01, 2012, 11:08:48 AM
?
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: pooka on March 01, 2012, 03:33:49 PM
Putting an adverb before "When" signals that the when is an adverb, not the other kind of when. 
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on March 01, 2012, 04:50:36 PM
I don't think it does. Conjunctive when can still take adverbs.

I think "No one knows when Garn finished his translation of the Voice of Warning" or "There's no conclusive evidence for when Garn finished his translation of the Voice of Warning" are even more natural and readable (though believe me I understand a lot of academics would have apoplexy over using such phrasings).

I think the second is rather wordy, and though the first is okay, I think the passive voice works better, because the agent in the sentence is (mostly) irrelevant. Neither would cause me apoplexy, though.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: fugu13 on March 01, 2012, 07:32:42 PM
Heh, yeah, the academics in question weren't intended to include you. I just have many memories of academics who seemed to apply an approach where if a sentence could possibly be rephrased to use "it is", it should be, along with banishing the word "I" (and usually "we").
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on March 01, 2012, 08:50:45 PM
I recently worked on a book in which the author almost always avoided the first person and instead referred to himself in the third person as "the author." Ugh. So awkward.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on March 02, 2012, 01:02:37 AM
In my documentation at work, I refer to myself as "this nurse" or "this supervisor".  It's the convention.

"The patient refused to take his medication and told this nurse to go to hell."
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Marianne Dashwood on March 02, 2012, 07:30:41 AM
I recently worked on a book in which the author almost always avoided the first person and instead referred to himself in the third person as "the author." Ugh. So awkward.

I know that's kind of expected in writing for some journals. But a whole book would be ridikalous.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on March 02, 2012, 10:10:49 AM
I know it's expected in some fields. I still think it's dumb.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: BlackBlade on March 02, 2012, 12:10:06 PM
I know it's expected in some fields. I still think it's dumb.
You mean, "This linguist thinks it's dumb".

*ducks*
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Marianne Dashwood on March 02, 2012, 12:50:10 PM
I know it's expected in some fields. I still think it's dumb.

If they do it enough, won't that become standard use, and shouldn't we be OK with that? ;)
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on March 02, 2012, 01:10:57 PM
Oh noes! You have caught me in a contradiction!
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on March 02, 2012, 06:23:35 PM
Owe nose!
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Dobie on March 05, 2012, 02:34:04 PM
Oh nose! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zG_LmSWPvW8)
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on September 10, 2012, 12:23:45 PM
"Every female who has not been placed, can, by proper arrangements, demand to be married."

From a Mormon newsletter from the 1850s.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on September 10, 2012, 01:09:47 PM
To anyone in particular? Was there a lottery?
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on September 10, 2012, 01:16:17 PM
I don't know the real answer, but I like the lottery idea. And I'm amused at the use of the word "placed", as if getting married is no different from getting a job.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Annie Subjunctive on September 11, 2012, 01:52:56 AM
That's rather awesome to know. Zal's sister and I were talking one evening about how marriage worked in the early Utah days and were wondering how much assignment and persuasion were going on. My then-boyfriend said, "Yeah, how did that work? Did the bishop just pull you aside and tell you that he needs you to take one for Zion?"
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: BlackBlade on September 11, 2012, 06:38:53 AM
I don't know the real answer, but I like the lottery idea. And I'm amused at the use of the word "placed", as if getting married is no different from getting a job.
Doesn't seem far off from many a marriage in America at that time.

Kinda makes one think about America being the land of opportunity, where a Mormon man can start out with nothing, then start up a small business with one employee, and after a few years of hard work and growth...well, you know. ;)
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: pooka on September 11, 2012, 04:40:30 PM
That's rather awesome to know. Zal's sister and I were talking one evening about how marriage worked in the early Utah days and were wondering how much assignment and persuasion were going on. My then-boyfriend said, "Yeah, how did that work? Did the bishop just pull you aside and tell you that he needs you to take one for Zion?"

It happened to someone in my maternal grandfathers line.  Like, she was missing many of her teeth.  I think they mention that because it was such a Christian undertaking.  Though the fourth wife was the nanny, at the insistence of the first two wives.  They had hired a dashing young tutor, who started to think about courting her, and the husband was told they wanted to keep her in the family.  I'm a descendant of the nanny.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: BlackBlade on September 11, 2012, 05:13:51 PM
My great great grandfather was commanded my Brigham Young to marry a widowed mother and her daughter.

I know right?!
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: The Genuine on September 11, 2012, 06:07:17 PM
 :nono:
"Every female who has not been placed, can, by proper arrangements, demand to be married."


That's a "be careful what you ask for" situation if I ever saw one.  (Particularly if you live in the shadow of a psychiatric hospital.)
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on September 12, 2012, 07:59:15 AM
My great great grandfather was commanded my Brigham Young to marry a widowed mother and her daughter.

I know right?!

My mind gets all boggley.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on September 12, 2012, 09:44:55 AM
My great great grandfather was commanded my Brigham Young to marry a widowed mother and her daughter.

I know right?!

 >_<
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: BlackBlade on September 12, 2012, 10:11:09 AM
Joking aside I think that would be a very interesting family dynamic to watch as a fly on the wall.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: pooka on September 12, 2012, 05:41:48 PM
Well, the doctrine of polygamy was for welfare as much as for multiplying.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on September 24, 2012, 09:51:58 AM
Quote
The certainty is that your body will, in due time, grow old and eventually become uninhabitable.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: BlackBlade on September 24, 2012, 01:58:50 PM
Oh yeah? Tell that to the bacteria and worms waiting for you to die.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on September 24, 2012, 02:05:12 PM
Uninhabitable for our spirits, at any rate (which was clear from context). I just thought it was an amusing way to put it.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: BlackBlade on September 24, 2012, 02:42:54 PM
Uninhabitable for our spirits, at any rate (which was clear from context). I just thought it was an amusing way to put it.
Even in regards to our spirits it's not true. Did Elijah's body become uninhabitable?
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on September 24, 2012, 02:48:21 PM
Maybe you should take it up with President Packer, who wrote the article. :p
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: BlackBlade on September 24, 2012, 03:44:38 PM
Maybe you should take it up with President Packer, who wrote the article. :p
I have issues with President Packer I would resolve first before that one.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on September 24, 2012, 04:27:23 PM
Well, I'll let you two work it out.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: BlackBlade on September 24, 2012, 04:29:17 PM
Well, I'll let you two work it out.
Until one of us is uninhabitable then!
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on September 25, 2012, 07:24:30 AM
Uninhabitable for our spirits, at any rate (which was clear from context). I just thought it was an amusing way to put it.
I like it.

I'm also a big fan of Packer.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: BlackBlade on September 25, 2012, 08:11:55 AM
I like President Packer just fine, but some of his decisions regarding church administration bother me. I'm sure that could be said of just about anybody though.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on September 25, 2012, 09:21:54 AM
Uninhabitable for our spirits, at any rate (which was clear from context). I just thought it was an amusing way to put it.
I like it.

Me too.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Zalmoxis on October 05, 2012, 01:28:32 PM
A faculty member took the executive to task for using the word "meeting invite" in an email. He said that you invite someone to a meeting or extend a meeting invitation, but not a meeting invite. So I hopped on to OED (thanks to my awesome local library) and took a screen shot for her that shows that invite has been used as a noun since 1615.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: pooka on October 15, 2012, 11:58:32 AM
Quote
As used herein, the singular form of a noun or pronoun will include within its meaning the plural form of a noun or pronoun, and vice versa; the use of the masculine form of a pronoun will include within its meaning the feminine form of the pronoun, and vice versa; the use of the tense of any verb will include all other tenses of the verb so used; and the use of “and” will include “or” and vice versa.

She works hard for the money, so hard for it honey... (I am singing this about my job typing, and not to say "we did work hard for the money" and vice versa.)
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on October 15, 2012, 12:46:30 PM
What the heck is that from, pooka?
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: pooka on October 15, 2012, 03:24:51 PM
Plaintiff interrogatories definitions and instructions.  I'm afraid it might be standard for this sort of thing.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: The Genuine on October 16, 2012, 06:31:52 AM
I've never seen anything quite like that before.  In fact, I think it disadvantageously adds a lot of ambiguity.

The point of interrogatories and requests for admission is to back people into corners.  The only time you want to be really broad is with requests for production (usually documents).
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: pooka on October 16, 2012, 12:45:53 PM
It's a mistaken identity case involving the AP and the NYT (a classroom treatment of an actual case from 1998).  So a lot of it involves documents, photos, records, communications which include... (someone kill me before I continue)
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: spacepook on October 16, 2012, 05:04:59 PM
:zaps with taser:
:CPR:
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on November 06, 2012, 11:08:33 AM
Quote
“While this might be quote on quote easy to get, we make sure the families understand what they’re getting into,” Nutt said.
*wince*
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on November 07, 2012, 09:25:39 AM
"
"
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on November 07, 2012, 12:13:41 PM
Quote
“While this might be quote on quote easy to get, we make sure the families understand what they’re getting into,” Nutt said.
*wince*
I find that both *wince* and :lol:.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on November 07, 2012, 12:24:30 PM
That's my reaction to most eggcorns.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on November 14, 2012, 09:41:19 AM
Quote
"The status of women is one of the questions of the day. Socially and politically it forces itself upon the attention of the world." To whom is this quote attributed, and when was it written? These questions will be answered as we discuss this timeless and timely topic.

This is the opening paragraph to a student symposium paper. I think it might be the worst opening paragraph I've ever read.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on November 14, 2012, 09:54:32 AM
It's definitely up there.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on November 14, 2012, 10:18:23 AM
From the opening of a section on women of Christianity:

Quote
Women have done, and continue to do, a variety of things, depending on the time, place, and circumstances of life. . . . Like the image of Rosie the Riveter and TV icons such as Donna Reed, women seek to maintain a balance in life, for themselves and their families, by doing whatever is needed.

The first sentence is laughably vapid. The second is just baffling. Are Rosie the Riveter and Donna Reed examples of the women of Christianity?
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on November 14, 2012, 11:55:47 AM
Sure. Aren't pearls and welding tools basic Christian motifs?
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on November 14, 2012, 12:07:14 PM
 :D
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on November 15, 2012, 08:47:47 AM
Opening line of a different student paper:

Quote
Our society is built on the Yankee ideals of rugged individualism and social Darwinism.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: BlackBlade on November 15, 2012, 08:57:46 AM
 ???
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on November 15, 2012, 09:17:24 AM
Didn't you learn in history class that the Founding Fathers were all eugenicists?
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on November 15, 2012, 11:11:05 AM
Who based their ideals on the research of a man who hadn't even been born yet!
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on November 15, 2012, 12:06:27 PM
Because they were inspired, duh-doy!
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Noemon on November 17, 2012, 10:01:15 PM
They were forward thinking.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: BlackBlade on November 18, 2012, 08:27:50 AM
Didn't you learn in history class that the Founding Fathers were all eugenicists?
No! And now I want a refund for about twelve years of second rate history classes!
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on December 19, 2012, 10:17:36 AM
Quote
No mention of dusting off feet is mentioned in D&C 84:88–93 either.

I love it when mentions are mentioned.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: BlackBlade on December 19, 2012, 12:47:41 PM
Quote
No mention of dusting off feet is mentioned in D&C 84:88–93 either.

I love it when mentions are mentioned.
LOL.

I know we don't have context, but what does he mean dusting off feet isn't mentioned in that passage?
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on December 19, 2012, 12:54:38 PM
I'm not sure what you mean. Nowhere in that passage does it mention dusting off feet.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on December 19, 2012, 01:01:12 PM
Quote
No mention of dusting off feet is mentioned in D&C 84:88–93 either.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: BlackBlade on December 19, 2012, 10:29:11 PM
I'm not sure what you mean. Nowhere in that passage does it mention dusting off feet.
It mentions cleaning ones feet. Surely shaking the dust off one's feet fits some definition of cleaning.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on December 19, 2012, 10:48:20 PM
Ah, I see. That passage mentions cleansing with water. The author was talking about mentions of shaking the dust off one's feet in the D&C and was merely noting that this is not the same thing.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on December 20, 2012, 09:17:52 AM
Quote
Schechner’s interest in the ranges of performances in life from human behavior to the performing arts to ritual to play examined the same topics as Turner, but from a different lens.

I've read this three or four times and still don't fully understand it.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on December 20, 2012, 12:05:31 PM
You broke my brain.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Brinestone on December 20, 2012, 12:37:52 PM
Quote
Schechner’s interest in the ranges of performances in life from human behavior to the performing arts to ritual to play examined the same topics as Turner, but from a different lens.

I've read this three or four times and still don't fully understand it.

I think this punctuation would help:

Schechner's interest in the rangers of performances in life—from human behavior, to the performing arts, to ritual, to play—examined the same topics as Turner, but from a different lens. The commas aren't technically correct, but I think they help understanding.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on December 20, 2012, 01:02:39 PM
They do help the reader to parse it, but I'm still not sure what it means. Schechner's interest examined the same topics as Turner, but from a different lens? Isn't it Schechner, not his interest, that examines the topics?

It seems like the author is trying to convey several different but related ideas, but they're sort of mashed together in a way that makes the relationship unclear.



What's not clear at all to me is whether the interests listed are the the topics being examined, the lens through which they're examined, something else entirely. At the very least I'm pretty sure they're not doing any examining.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: pooka on December 22, 2012, 06:43:22 PM
Nonfiction writing requires you summarize your thoughts now and then, even when not warranted and when it will just confuse people.  Though as I mentioned in guess the author the other day, this kind of problem indicates your scope of inquiry might need calibration. 
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on January 15, 2013, 09:52:40 AM
From an author's corrections:

Quote
Should this read "her's" rather than "hers"?

No, it should not.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on January 16, 2013, 12:32:51 PM
Quote
In 1851, he reported of the celebration of the 4th of July in Salt Lake City of the people “whose flair is as amazing as their hard-work and energy.”

 >_<
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: BlackBlade on January 16, 2013, 12:41:09 PM
No kidding! The Mormons had only been in Utah just shy of four years by that point. Hard-work and energy I can believe. Flair? Weren't they all in adobes at that point?
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on January 16, 2013, 01:09:25 PM
I'm just complaining about the way disjointed thoughts are smashed together into a sentence that's only barely grammatical.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on January 17, 2013, 09:55:22 AM
Quote
In accordance with Dan and I's correspondence . . .

Ack! No! No no no no.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: BlackBlade on January 17, 2013, 10:16:32 AM
Quote
In accordance with Dan and I's correspondence . . .

Ack! No! No no no no.
One very important grammatical moment in my life was when a friend of mine pointed out that when I want to say, "Noun and I/me did something" to simply say the sentence to myself without the other noun. If it sounded weird, then I had it wrong.

Worked much better than what I'd heard in school about "the subject of a preposition..."
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on January 17, 2013, 10:20:49 AM
BB, yeah, that's definitely the best method for most people.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on January 17, 2013, 10:36:10 AM
:nod:

That "trick" is what I do too.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on January 19, 2013, 04:55:05 PM
Quote
In 1851, he reported of the celebration of the 4th of July in Salt Lake City of the people “whose flair is as amazing as their hard-work and energy.”

 >_<

It needs another prepositional phrase or two, right?
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on January 19, 2013, 05:03:48 PM
Couldn't hurt.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: pooka on January 23, 2013, 03:02:14 PM
Quote
In accordance with Dan and I's correspondence . . .

Ack! No! No no no no.
:D
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on February 01, 2013, 10:03:53 AM
Quote
He told Brigham, “If it was his wish that I should go I would do so though to human calculation it seemed difficult.”  He asked Brigham if he should prepare to leave in the fall, and Brigham replied, “he reckoned I could get ready and be off in four or five days.”

No. He did not tell Brigham that, and Brigham did not reply that way. They might have each said something to that effect, but this is clearly an account of a conversation, not the conversation itself. And of course the author didn't provide source citations, so I don't know what to do with it besides writing a lengthy marginal query.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: BlackBlade on February 01, 2013, 10:10:29 AM
Perhaps the account comes from a journal mentioning the specifics of what was said?
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on February 01, 2013, 10:23:24 AM
Presumably. I don't know for a fact, though, so I can't reframe it like "He recorded in his journal, 'If it was his wish . . .'" I'll have to rely on the author to fix it.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: BlackBlade on February 01, 2013, 10:34:40 AM
Yeah for sure. I would say that *does* sounds like Brother Brigham. ;)
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on February 27, 2013, 10:49:43 AM
Quote
A fossilized, run-into-a-groove teacher, in short, a pedant, is an incubus upon the profession.

From Karl G. Maeser.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: dkw on February 27, 2013, 11:23:35 AM
Vivid, but unclear.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on February 27, 2013, 11:57:59 AM
I thought it was clear. I was just taken aback by the use of "incubus".
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: BlackBlade on February 27, 2013, 02:39:25 PM
I thought it was clear. I was just taken aback by the use of "incubus".
Why? I guess incubus is a bit too strong of a metaphor, since one teacher can hardly hold back the entire profession.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on February 27, 2013, 02:44:31 PM
An incubus is literally a demon that rapes women in their sleep. More metaphorically, it's a nightmare or merely something that acts like a nightmare.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: BlackBlade on February 27, 2013, 02:50:25 PM
An incubus is literally a demon that rapes women in their sleep. More metaphorically, it's a nightmare or merely something that acts like a nightmare.
I'm aware of what the word means. I was assuming he was using it in the "weighs on somebody like a nightmare" sense.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on February 27, 2013, 02:55:14 PM
Right. I think it's clear that that's how he meant it, but the primary sense is disturbing enough that I think it overpowered the intended meaning for me.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: BlackBlade on February 27, 2013, 02:59:14 PM
Right. I think it's clear that that's how he meant it, but the primary sense is disturbing enough that I think it overpowered the intended meaning for me.
Sure. I actually initially only knew about the nightmare meaning (because of the band Incubus). A few years ago I learned the demonic definition which was weird because I had known about the succubus from a very young age.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: dkw on February 27, 2013, 05:38:29 PM
Ah.  I didn't know about the nightmare or something that acts like a nightmare definition, so I was trying to figure out in what way a boring teacher could possibly be a demon-rapist upon the profession.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: BlackBlade on February 27, 2013, 06:44:39 PM
When you find out a $5 word has a definition you didn't know about, is that like finding out you can use US dollars without any issues in the Philippines?
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: dkw on February 27, 2013, 09:33:19 PM
Speaking of metaphors that just don't click for me . . .huh?
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: BlackBlade on February 27, 2013, 09:52:53 PM
Well when you have an advanced word and learn it has an application you didn't know about, since they are called five dollar words, I imagine it's a similar feeling when you show up in the Philippines, and realize you don't even need to change your money.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: pooka on March 03, 2013, 01:12:51 PM
I've never been given more than 25 cents for a hoity toity word.  

Perhaps the application of incubus in that description was relevant to the demon raping women in their sleep.  Though it seems to me more likely he didn't quite have the word he wanted.  He was just trying to use a noun he thought meant "really really bad."  P.S.  I think in this day and age, the "into a groove" phrase primes the sentence with a meaning that makes the use of incubus extra inappropriate.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on March 28, 2013, 08:29:17 AM
Quote
Nephi tells his heart to rejoice: “Rejoice, O my heart” (2 Nephi 4:28).
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Brinestone on March 28, 2013, 09:21:59 AM
That made me laugh.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on March 28, 2013, 09:34:11 AM
It made me and my coworkers laugh, too. I think that's a good sign that it needs to be changed.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: BlackBlade on March 28, 2013, 09:56:36 AM
I laughed.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Anna on March 29, 2013, 04:10:12 AM
It made me and my coworkers laugh, too. I think that's a good sign that it needs to be changed.

Don't you like a good laugh?
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: pooka on April 03, 2013, 01:28:57 PM
Three Nephites walk into a bar...
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: BlackBlade on April 03, 2013, 02:43:57 PM
Three Nephites walk into a bar...
I wonder if the Three Nephites would be bound by the Word of Wisdom.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Dobie on April 04, 2013, 06:10:14 PM
Three Nephites who had become hardened and impenitent and grossly wicked, insomuch that they did reject all the preaching and prophesying which did come among them, walk into a bar...
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: pooka on April 05, 2013, 04:25:27 PM
That almost works, except the three nephites by definition were highly virtuous.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Dobie on April 05, 2013, 04:49:32 PM
I guess if the Returned Missionary can be in a beer commercial the Three Nephites can go into a bar.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: pooka on April 11, 2013, 04:59:30 PM
May it be the same bar the three musketeers went into!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Annie Subjunctive on April 11, 2013, 07:07:11 PM
I don't know why I had to click on that spoiler to figure out the answer.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Noemon on April 23, 2013, 11:28:36 AM
"The logic is deeply embedded in the code."
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on April 23, 2013, 01:21:45 PM
It's like a one-line poem.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: dkw on April 23, 2013, 02:10:43 PM
Or a line from a Matrix knock-off.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Annie Subjunctive on April 23, 2013, 05:37:54 PM
Or a 21st-century koan.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on April 23, 2013, 05:59:27 PM
A koan was actually my first thought.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on May 07, 2013, 12:18:35 PM
The title of a real book that an author just cited: Utah in the World War: The Men Behind the Guns and the Men and Women Behind the Men Behind the Guns.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: BlackBlade on May 07, 2013, 01:44:12 PM
I think I need to weep.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on May 07, 2013, 02:25:46 PM
I think that's brilliant.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on May 07, 2013, 02:54:31 PM
One of my new coworkers just invented the word sustenation. (Yes, it's in the OED, but it's quite rare. I think she independently invented it.) You'd think the red squiggly line under it would have tipped her off that something was wrong. The weirdest part is that she replaced the perfectly cromulent word sustaining with sustenation because she thought that sustaining was nonparallel in context. I guess it sort of is (the other words in the list are noun, and this is a gerund, which is sort of a hybrid of a verb and noun), but it doesn't warrant that.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on May 07, 2013, 03:53:06 PM
A beautiful example of the flexibility of the English language as is evolves over time.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: fugu13 on May 07, 2013, 04:27:37 PM
"The logic is deeply embedded in the code."

Hey, it's a legitimate statement :P In some systems the business logic is heavily driven by something outside the code, such as a rules engine, or is modular and flexible so that business logic changes are easy, while in others the business logic is pervasive throughout the code, meaning it isn't easy to change.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on September 04, 2013, 10:29:18 AM
The job-training manuals I'm working on are written in a very odd sort of first person with a lot of imperatives (which are technically second person), like "Share my resume with a partner." I thought those were weird, but this one threw me for a loop:

Quote
Networking means contacting people I know who can either help me get a job directly or lead me to someone else for more information. It is the most effective way to find a job. In fact, a recent survey found that nearly 75% of jobs are found through networking. (It makes me wonder why anyone would spend much time job searching in any other way!) Often I have to network several layers deep to get real results.

When I hit the sentence in parentheses, I thought, "Wait—who's speaking? The workshop participant who doesn't know anything about networking and has never done it before?" Most of the other first-person stuff is clearly meant to refer to the participant, but it doesn't really make sense to read that part that way.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Brinestone on September 04, 2013, 11:24:38 AM
Are you supposed to keep it in that weird first person?
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on September 04, 2013, 11:40:33 AM
We've been changing it to the second person for the most part, though I left a couple of those in the first where it seemed like it was the facilitator, not the participants, speaking.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Brinestone on September 10, 2013, 09:35:08 PM
"I don’t think it should be something that should be completely everything."
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on September 11, 2013, 08:19:06 AM
Truer words were never spoken.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on September 26, 2013, 12:33:46 PM
I caught a bogus etymology (or at least a bogus definition) in something I was reviewing. It was in a passage explicating the term "put on Christ" in Galatians 3:27. It said that the Greek word translated as "put on" is enduo, which means "to endow." Then it added that it means to clothe oneself or to symbolically put something on.

But it doesn't mean "endow"; it means "clothe". Endow means "give". This isn't the first time I've seen this connection between enduo and endow, so I did a little more digging and found this article (https://www.lds.org/ensign/1993/04/new-testament-word-studies?lang=eng) from BYU law professor John Welch. He conflates endow, endue, and enduo in a very muddled explanation of the endowment ceremony. As far as I can tell, all three words are distinct, though I'm not sure if endue and enduo are really unrelated. They both mean "clothe", but one comes from Latin and the other from Greek.

Welch cites Noah Webster, who was a crap etymologist, but not a real etymological dictionary like the OED, which would have clearly explained that endow and endue come from different roots but have been conflated to some degree for centuries. And then he cites Joseph Smith, who used enduement and endowment interchangeably in his writings. Uh, no offense, but Joseph Smith had only a third-grade education and was not exactly a great speller. It's not surprising that he confused two words that the OED says were frequently confused.

I wonder how many people read that article by Welch and believed it all because he's a Mormon academic superstar who studied Latin and Greek, so obviously he must know what he's talking about. Stuff like that really irritates me.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: dkw on September 26, 2013, 02:59:08 PM
So what did you do?  Do you have the authority to get that changed, or do you just have to grit your teeth and endure it?
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on September 26, 2013, 03:24:40 PM
It wasn't actually my document, so I let the editor know. I explained the problem to her, but I'm afraid that she won't see it as a problem and will let it through. If it had been my document, I would have simply deleted the part saying that enduo means "to endow".
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Dobie on September 26, 2013, 06:31:34 PM
...or do you just have to grit your teeth and endure it?
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Annie Subjunctive on September 27, 2013, 10:20:55 AM
DKW, this is for you (http://instantrimshot.com/).
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on September 30, 2013, 06:54:35 PM
Quote
I have a sillybus and student guide which I created. 

*giggle*
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on September 30, 2013, 07:15:11 PM
Don't laugh at the sillybus, Rivka. It's a very serious sillybus.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on October 09, 2013, 11:06:46 AM
Quote
For example, water changes state when it freezes—it becomes ice. If you are making a cake, the batter changes state when it is baked and becomes a cake.

*sigh*

Someone didn't pay much attention in chemistry class. Granted, this is just a dumb Powerpoint slide full of management speak, not a science lesson, but it still irks me.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on October 09, 2013, 11:31:53 AM
I changed state when I moved from Georgia to New Jersey.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on October 09, 2013, 12:13:46 PM
Quote
For example, water changes state when it freezes—it becomes ice. If you are making a cake, the batter changes state when it is baked and becomes a cake.

*sigh*

Someone didn't pay much attention in chemistry class. Granted, this is just a dumb Powerpoint slide full of management speak, not a science lesson, but it still irks me.
UGH. Baking a cake is often an example given of something that is NOT a change of state, but a chemical change. My guess is the slidemaker vaguely remembers the lesson, but has screwed up which examples go with what because they never really got the idea.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on October 09, 2013, 01:30:07 PM
Probably. It's not like it's that difficult to grasp, though.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on October 09, 2013, 02:37:49 PM
Agreed.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Annie Subjunctive on October 09, 2013, 05:42:33 PM
The states of matter: batter, cake, ash.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: pooka on October 10, 2013, 09:39:24 AM
I was thinking batter, cake, nap.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: BlackBlade on October 10, 2013, 06:07:53 PM
I changed state when I moved from Georgia to New Jersey.
I always knew Tante was really Miss Daisy!

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on October 10, 2013, 09:16:09 PM
There was a popular song some years ago, "She Drives Me Crazy", and I changed the lyrics so that they were about that movie:

He drives Miss Daisy -- ooh-ooh
And no one else -- ooh-ooh
He drives Miss Daisy
'Cause she can't drive herself.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: pooka on October 20, 2013, 08:41:32 PM
 :D
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on October 25, 2013, 08:44:57 AM
I work on a software project that has been around for decades.

Part of it was written back in the DOS days when you were limited to an 8-character filename plus a 3-character extension, so there was a lot of abbreviating in order to pack as much info into a few characters.  This sort of abbreviation became embedded in the company culture and continued long after it was no longer necessary.

This is especially humorous when dealing with the "Analysis" code.  Here are some of the labels dealing with analysis:

AnalDim
AnalView
AnalWin
AnalWinControlWrapper
ANAL_DIM_LIST
ANAL_VIEW_OPTIONS
ANAL_VIEW_PROF_OPTIONS
ANAL_VIEW_SHOW_OPTIONS
ANAL_VIEW_SIZE_OPTIONS
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on October 25, 2013, 09:17:01 AM
 :D
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: BlackBlade on October 25, 2013, 10:23:26 AM
*snort* So that's awesome.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on October 25, 2013, 10:27:01 AM
If I ever worked in that area of the code, I'd try awfully hard to come up with an excuse to make something called AnalBumCover.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Annie Subjunctive on October 25, 2013, 05:44:06 PM
I work on a software project that has been around for decades.

Part of it was written back in the DOS days when you were limited to an 8-character filename plus a 3-character extension, so there was a lot of abbreviating in order to pack as much info into a few characters.  This sort of abbreviation became embedded in the company culture and continued long after it was no longer necessary.

This is especially humorous when dealing with the "Analysis" code.  Here are some of the labels dealing with analysis:

AnalDim
AnalView
AnalWin
AnalWinControlWrapper
ANAL_DIM_LIST
ANAL_VIEW_OPTIONS
ANAL_VIEW_PROF_OPTIONS
ANAL_VIEW_SHOW_OPTIONS
ANAL_VIEW_SIZE_OPTIONS


The last one is the worst.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Nighthawk on October 28, 2013, 07:04:27 AM
That kind of reminds me of when I worked at [REDACTED]... The person who was responsible for the text engine of the graphics package we were working on was also (1) the worst speller I've ever seen, and (2) the CEO of the company. Since he was the boss, no one could really tell him how horrible of a speller he was, much less that someone with such abysmal spelling should be responsible for things in the application relating to text. Like the spell checker, for example.

So two examples come to mind:

1) There actually was a procedure in the application defined as "bool WordIsReallyMisspeeled(char* str)". I 'm pretty sure that wasn't on purpose.

2) The CEO kept misspelling "bezier" as "beizer", which ended up being a problem for constant definitions and whatnot. In order to not have to worry about it, the following line appeared in the first include file:

#define     BEIZER     BEZIER

So now he could spell it wrong as often as he liked.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on October 28, 2013, 09:04:25 AM
"Nobody drives into the city -- there's too much traffic."
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on October 28, 2013, 10:25:55 AM
That makes perfect sense.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on October 28, 2013, 10:27:22 AM
It would if all the traffic were from people who live and work in the city.

However, since that is patently untrue . . . .
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on October 28, 2013, 10:49:22 AM
Quote
#define     BEIZER     BEZIER
*twitch*
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on October 28, 2013, 09:13:45 PM
It's like I work with Yogi Berra.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on November 01, 2013, 10:51:41 AM
The LDS Church style guide insists on capitalizing all personal pronouns referring to deity (with the curious exception of you/your/yours). I think it's annoying enough to capitalize "he" and "his" all the time, but it looks downright bizarre when using a different pronoun:

Quote
. . . which helps us draw near to Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ and to learn of Them.

It just looks awkward and ominous and draws undue attention to itself. Also, it makes me think of Them (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0047573/).

(http://ia.media-imdb.com/images/M/MV5BMTg4NTE2MTUzN15BMl5BanBnXkFtZTYwMTI4MDg4._V1_SY317_CR3,0,214,317_.jpg)
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: BlackBlade on November 01, 2013, 12:11:25 PM
The LDS Church style guide insists on capitalizing all personal pronouns referring to deity (with the curious exception of you/your/yours)
Duh, because it's "Thee/Thy/Thine". We never say you/your/yours when referring to God. ;)
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on November 01, 2013, 12:23:38 PM
Exactly. This is what the style guide says:

Quote
Avoid using the second-person pronouns you and your in references to Deity. However, if they are used, lowercase them:
Quote
“Heavenly Father, are you there?”

I guess if you're going to be so brazen as to use the informal and unsanctioned you, you should just forget about capitalizing it.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on November 01, 2013, 02:16:20 PM
I guess if you're going to be so brazen as to use the informal and unsanctioned you, you should just forget about capitalizing it.
:D
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: BlackBlade on November 01, 2013, 04:24:00 PM
I laughed out loud.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on November 14, 2013, 12:43:44 PM
This (http://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/6.12?lang=eng#11) was offered as a "useful scripture" on a section of a document on sexual purity:

Quote
Make not thy gift known unto any save it be those who are of thy faith. Trifle not with sacred things.

So if we're taking "gift" to be a euphemism for "sex", can we assume that it's okay to make your gift known to anyone of your faith?
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on November 14, 2013, 01:48:16 PM
But what about outreach?  Isn't that what the missionary position is all about?
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on November 14, 2013, 01:50:52 PM
 :peek:
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Brinestone on November 15, 2013, 08:56:56 AM
You guys are cracking me the heck up today. Well done.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on November 21, 2013, 03:39:45 PM
Quote
Managers should never pry into what the employee’s medical condition is or share the medical condition with others, except HR.

Got it. Only infect Human Resources.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on November 21, 2013, 03:58:26 PM
*snerk*
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on December 10, 2013, 08:50:36 AM
Quote
Then read Doctrine and Covenants 128:8, looking for a different way Joseph Smith taught that this statement can be written
Writers, please stop trying to cram so much into one sentence.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on December 10, 2013, 09:35:07 AM
Please. Please.  It's an "advance directive", not an "advanced directive".  The directive itself isn't far ahead of its time, it was just made up in advance of its implementation.

It's been wrong so many times and and then  copied so many times and then quoted so many times that I see it the wrong way much more than the right way.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Annie Subjunctive on December 10, 2013, 02:02:49 PM
Quote
Then read Doctrine and Covenants 128:8, looking for a different way Joseph Smith taught that this statement can be written
Writers, please stop trying to cram so much into one sentence.

I was editing my own writing this morning. I'm terrible at this.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on December 17, 2013, 10:59:00 AM
I just came across the quote "prescribing what Rome [prohibited]" in a manual I'm proofreading. Curious about the bracketed replacement, I checked the original and found that it reads "prescribing what Rome proscribed." It's a nice turn of phrase, but I guess we don't have any faith in the ability of readers (in this case seminary students) to either understand it or look up the word if they don't. And another editor told me to leave it as is instead of changing it back to the way the original quote has it.

Sigh.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: BlackBlade on December 17, 2013, 11:09:29 AM
One more little defeat on the ultimate road to dumb.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: pooka on December 17, 2013, 11:10:43 AM
Yup.  Might as well roll out the txt translation of the Bible.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: dkw on December 17, 2013, 11:25:23 AM
You couldn't talk them into maybe leaving it as the original but sticking in a footnote with the definition?
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on December 17, 2013, 11:28:10 AM
We don't really do footnotes like that (though it's not a bad idea). Plus, this is a proofread on a really tight deadline, so I don't really have the time or the freedom to suggest changes like that at this point.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on December 17, 2013, 11:55:58 AM
In other news, some people take our style rule of capitalizing names and titles of deity entirely too far.

Quote
. . . the law of witnesses was satisfied by the two Beings whose testimonies were irrefutable—the Father and the Son.
Quote
Jesus Christ is the only One to ever live on this earth who could accurately say . . .
:rolleyes:
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: BlackBlade on December 17, 2013, 12:21:28 PM
*snicker*
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Annie Subjunctive on December 17, 2013, 02:32:09 PM
To be fair, I don't think that many high school students would be familiar with the meaning of proscribe, especially if they saw it paired with prescribe like that. I would think the substitution is fine for the sake of communicating to the intended audience.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on December 17, 2013, 02:42:53 PM
It's a fair point, but then, will they know what "prescribe" means in that context? What about other unfamiliar words? Why even use a quote that students might not understand?

I think what bugs me most is that bracketed changes are usually made to make the grammar of the quote fit the grammar of the surrounding sentence (changing first-person pronouns to third-person pronouns, making verb tense consistent, and so on) or to supply missing referents to pronouns. I don't think I've seen brackets used simply to replace words that might be too hard. It seems to be outside the conventions of permissible changes to a quotation.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: dkw on December 17, 2013, 03:33:21 PM
Yeah.  If you're going to change words then paraphrase (with attribution of the idea) instead of quoting.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on December 17, 2013, 03:35:38 PM
I agree.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Annie Subjunctive on December 17, 2013, 08:57:02 PM
Yeah.  If you're going to change words then paraphrase (with attribution of the idea) instead of quoting.

This would make a lot more sense.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: pooka on December 22, 2013, 08:09:46 PM
I knew that word in high school, but it was from Latin class.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on December 30, 2013, 11:53:22 AM
From instructions on setting up before a meeting:

Quote
Set up chairs around the table (example on right)

Then it has a diagram of chairs around a table, in case you've never used a table and chairs before.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on December 30, 2013, 11:55:29 AM
Of all the things to include a diagram for . . .
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on December 30, 2013, 02:11:33 PM
Seriously. I wonder who looked at the text and thought, "What about people who don't know how to set up chairs around a table or, for that matter, read? We'd better include a diagram for them."
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on December 30, 2013, 02:54:13 PM
Pfft.

No, what probably happened is someone decided it needed more images, and then went looking for which ones could be done easily or stolen from somewhere else. :P
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on December 30, 2013, 09:04:17 PM
I've seen examples of chairs poorly arranged around a table.  DaVinci's Last Supper, for instance.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on January 02, 2014, 01:14:41 PM
I'm editing a job search skills workbook, and it gives some tips on how to answer common interview questions. For "What is your biggest weakness?" it says, "This can be a hard question. Don't share a real weakness (for example, 'I am a compulsive liar')." But wouldn't a compulsive liar feel compelled to lie about being a compulsive liar?
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on January 02, 2014, 01:46:22 PM
I don't think even compulsive liars lie about everything . . .
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on January 02, 2014, 01:56:09 PM
But surely the smart ones wouldn't tell the truth about being compulsive liars. :P
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on January 02, 2014, 02:14:57 PM
One would think.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on January 02, 2014, 09:05:59 PM
My answer to that interview question is that I tend to overpack for trips.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on January 03, 2014, 12:31:04 PM
Quote
Sometimes there was a little pride, then pride increased, and finally the people were waxed in pride.
I wonder if a lot of Church members don't realize that wax is a synonym with increase or grow. It's funny that we insist on reading and using King James-esque English so much, but we don't really teach people how to.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on January 03, 2014, 12:38:28 PM
Quote
and finally the people were waxed in pride.
Sounds messy.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: BlackBlade on January 03, 2014, 02:27:29 PM
Quote
Sometimes there was a little pride, then pride increased, and finally the people were waxed in pride.
I wonder if a lot of Church members don't realize that wax is a synonym with increase or grow. It's funny that we insist on reading and using King James-esque English so much, but we don't really teach people how to.
I would be surprised if most members did not know how to use "wax" in a sentence that way.

Maybe that person is an outlier?
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on January 03, 2014, 02:45:40 PM
I would be surprised if most members did not know how to use "wax" in a sentence that way.

Maybe that person is an outlier?

You're probably right. After all "were waxed" occurs not once in the LDS standard works, so it's not like the person who wrote that picked up the phrase without understanding it. They somehow made that up themselves.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: BlackBlade on January 03, 2014, 02:48:11 PM
I would be surprised if most members did not know how to use "wax" in a sentence that way.

Maybe that person is an outlier?

You're probably right. After all "were waxed" occurs not once in the LDS standard works, so it's not like the person who wrote that picked up the phrase without understanding it. They somehow made that up themselves.
*nods*

I think it would be an interesting study though to review by age groups how well Mormons of different age groups comprehend King James English.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: pooka on January 04, 2014, 11:54:31 AM
Probably similar to their comprehension of Shakespearean English. 
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: dkw on January 04, 2014, 12:17:19 PM
In my experience King James English slightly misused is a pretty reliable "tell" for Mormonism.*

*By which I mean that all the people I know who do that are Mormons, not that all the Mormons I know do that. When I hear it, I assume that the person is probably Mormon.  And so far I've always been right. (Not that it's a huge sample.)

Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on January 04, 2014, 02:46:50 PM
Interesting. Do people from other churches and congregations use it better? Or do they just not use it?
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on January 04, 2014, 03:55:53 PM
Quote
waxed in pride.

(http://thumbs4.ebaystatic.com/d/l225/m/mNka52U0BZ9rAuDT2FGLPTQ.jpg)
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on January 04, 2014, 03:56:50 PM
Tante wins.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on January 04, 2014, 03:59:02 PM
What's my prize?
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: dkw on January 04, 2014, 04:05:04 PM
Interesting. Do people from other churches and congregations use it better? Or do they just not use it?

Don't use it, except for direct quotes.  
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: pooka on January 04, 2014, 09:41:07 PM
Maybe they are directly quoting, but it's not the Bible? 
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Noemon on January 23, 2014, 07:31:01 AM
"my team...are diligently waged to determine solutions".
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: dkw on January 23, 2014, 07:42:16 AM
 :wacko:
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: BlackBlade on January 23, 2014, 08:20:45 AM
Quickly, if we get enough people to start saying that we can make it standard!
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on January 23, 2014, 10:51:16 AM
:wacko:

I second that emoticon.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on February 04, 2014, 09:10:06 AM
Quote
Remembering its location can help you show others in their Bibles where to locate this important doctrine about marriage.

Ugh. Who writes this stuff? It's just so clunky.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on February 04, 2014, 09:24:44 AM
Quote
One principle can we learn from these verses about how we should treat the Sabbath day is the following

This sounds like something Perd Hapley would write.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on February 04, 2014, 09:30:15 AM
Quote
Remembering its location can help you show others in their Bibles where to locate this important doctrine about marriage.

Ugh. Who writes this stuff? It's just so clunky.

But it's true!  We keep our Bibles in the bookcase.  It's hard to show people stuff in the Bible if you can't remember where you left it.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Brinestone on February 04, 2014, 03:38:00 PM
I thought the others were in the bibles, so presumably they know where they are?
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: dkw on February 06, 2014, 06:23:49 PM
I don't see how that follows.  They may have been lost.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on February 25, 2014, 01:18:56 PM
An author just changed "Display a candy bar or other treat" to "Display a delicious treat". I don't know why it's making me crack up so much.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: dkw on February 25, 2014, 02:45:46 PM
Is this the strategy where you throw candy at people who participate in discussion to encourage participation?
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on February 25, 2014, 02:53:06 PM
Worse. Show the kids a treat and ask who wants it. Pick two of them, divide the treat unequally, and ask them to decide who gets which piece. Then, without addressing or resolving the possible conflict you probably just caused, read about how Abraham and Lot argued about where to live and how they resolved their problem.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: dkw on February 25, 2014, 02:55:46 PM
 :blink:
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on February 25, 2014, 03:12:31 PM
And when the other editor and I pointed out the potential problems, including unnecessary conflict, lack of resolution, and lack of a real segue or connection to the lesson, we were told to leave it. No explanation given.

This is how about half of my job is. :\
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: dkw on February 25, 2014, 03:17:26 PM
I imagine that's one of the frustrating parts of an editor's job -- you get to fix the language but not the content.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on February 25, 2014, 03:33:03 PM
It really varies from job to job. We're supposed to make sure that the doctrine is presented accurately, that the scriptures are being interpreted appropriately, and that the methodology is sound. But when it comes down to it, we have no power to do so. I mean, we can talk to them and try to persuade them, but if they say "We want it this way. Leave it", there's really nothing we can do.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: BlackBlade on February 25, 2014, 08:14:16 PM
Why couldn't Lot and Abraham go into the candy bar business together?
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on March 07, 2014, 02:32:54 PM
Something I'm working on suggests this book (http://grafstressmanagement.com/bluebook/) as a resource for dealing with stress. I didn't want to refer people to it because most of the other sources are free or are probably available at the library, but then I started reading the testimonials (http://grafstressmanagement.com/testimonials/).

Oh

my

gosh.

Quote
Since my first encounter with Jan Graf, he has helped my family, friends, and my Doctor clients with every condition common and uncommon known to man. Just to name a few: marital problems, dyslexia, headaches, emotional baggage about money and wealth, heart and lung conditions, as well as stress and emotional concerns too many to name.

This stress-management technique cures dyslexia and heart disease!

Quote
The changes were astonishing.  I lost 65 pounds in eight weeks, without dieting, medication or exercise.  The diabetic and high blood pressure problems went almost immediately, likewise my leukemia problems.

And cancer!

Quote
As you know, we had been trying to have another baby for 4 years.  The day my husband saw you for the problems that he was having due to stress you discovered why I wasn’t getting pregnant.  According to my doctor I got pregnant that night.

And sterility!

Really, is there anything this amazing technique CAN'T do?
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on March 07, 2014, 02:49:54 PM
Can it slice, dice, and mince?
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on March 07, 2014, 03:07:03 PM
It can! And if you act now, we'll throw in a second one FREE!
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: BlackBlade on March 08, 2014, 06:50:26 PM
Can I also pay $14.95 for shipping and handling?!
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on March 08, 2014, 07:27:42 PM
You certainly can!

But wait, there's more! Be one of the first 500 callers, and we'll throw in this flexible LED book light FREE! That's a $25* value!


*Actually a $2.50 value. Someone in accounting probably made a decimal error.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on March 11, 2014, 01:42:05 PM
Quote
It was a stormy, multicultural night to remember and, in the morning light of Sunday’s temple dedication, still on the minds of the youth.

You can't make this stuff up.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on March 11, 2014, 02:07:04 PM
Quote
Long recognized in recent years . . .
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on March 11, 2014, 02:07:43 PM
You can't make this stuff up.
You're right, I can't. But someone clearly can.  >_<
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on March 11, 2014, 02:10:21 PM
The really amazing thing is that they get paid to.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on March 11, 2014, 02:22:26 PM
Indeed.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: dkw on March 11, 2014, 09:11:23 PM
Are you ever tempted to send them back with a note that says "You're joking, right?"
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on March 11, 2014, 09:24:09 PM
Oh, I've been tempted to write a great many things over the years. I have learned to sublimate those urges into snarky posts here and comments to my coworkers. Sometimes we've even had quote boards of really choice specimens.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on March 11, 2014, 11:15:29 PM
Oh, I've been tempted to write a great many things over the years. I have learned to sublimate those urges into snarky posts here and comments to my coworkers.
Shvester!
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on March 12, 2014, 10:41:24 AM
Shvester!

 :erm:
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on March 12, 2014, 09:00:47 PM
:D
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Noemon on April 03, 2014, 01:14:08 PM
This morning my boss was talking about someone who was eager to get started on a project,  and said that he was "biting at the chump" to begin. It was probably the most entertaining variant of "champing at the bit" that I've heard.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on April 03, 2014, 01:55:00 PM
That

is

awesome.

 :D
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Noemon on April 03, 2014, 04:05:16 PM
Isn't it, though?

Actually, this story reminds me that there was a question about her speech patterns that I was wanting to ask you.

:: dashes off to the "Ask the Expert" thread ::
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on April 23, 2014, 10:38:40 AM
Quote
Visualizing occurs as students picture what is taking place.

Yeah, that's pretty much how it works.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Noemon on April 27, 2014, 09:35:14 PM
 :D
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: BlackBlade on April 28, 2014, 07:06:29 AM
Bwa ha ha.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on April 28, 2014, 12:27:37 PM
Quote
one in the same
>_<
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: BlackBlade on April 28, 2014, 12:54:06 PM
 :dizzy:
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on April 28, 2014, 01:45:34 PM
"run rapid over them"
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on May 09, 2014, 09:28:31 AM
This is on our intranet page right now:

Quote
If a lack of sleep is keeping you up at night, read on for information and resources to help you get your zzz's.

As a matter of fact, a lack of sleep IS keeping me up at night!
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on May 09, 2014, 11:10:03 AM
A lack of sleep not only keeps me up at night, it keeps me up during the daytime as well.  But as much as I would like more zzz's, what I would prefer are qqq's because then I could win at the alphabet game on car rides.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on May 19, 2014, 03:48:13 PM
I'm editing a short piece on computer literacy for people who work at Deseret Industries stores. It includes a link to this site (http://academic.brooklyn.cuny.edu/education/jlemke/cpu-basic.htm) (and quotes from it without attribution, of course). Judging from its companion page on the WorldWideWeb (WWW), I'd say it has to be at least 17 years old. It references Windows 95 and the Mosaic browser, which was discontinued in 1997.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: dkw on May 19, 2014, 05:33:09 PM
Please tell me they didn't include the part about what you see on the front of "the box" including the floppy disc drive.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on May 19, 2014, 07:27:18 PM
No, they quoted the bullet points at the end, including the one about using a modem.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: dkw on May 19, 2014, 07:33:40 PM
Heh.  I remember the first time we used a modem to call another computer. We called the other family on the phone first to set it up so they'd have their computer on and ready. Then we hung up the phone and typed to each other.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: pooka on May 19, 2014, 08:29:12 PM
I like the scare apostrophes.
There's a missing 'carriage return' in the list of peripherals, combining printers and AV.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Nighthawk on May 19, 2014, 09:39:13 PM
I'm editing a short piece on computer literacy for people who work at Deseret Industries stores. It includes a link to this site (http://academic.brooklyn.cuny.edu/education/jlemke/cpu-basic.htm) (and quotes from it without attribution, of course). Judging from its companion page on the WorldWideWeb (WWW), I'd say it has to be at least 17 years old. It references Windows 95 and the Mosaic browser, which was discontinued in 1997.

Quote
A computer can work as a telephone, a television, a VCR, a CD player, a typewriter...

Yeah, technology's moved along a bit since then...

ETA: Oh gods, it gets worse. I feel old reading that.

The Web Information (http://academic.brooklyn.cuny.edu/education/web-info.htm) page linked to at the bottom is glorious.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on May 27, 2014, 01:36:40 PM
I hate getting client comments like this on documents I'm working on:

Quote
Are we going to label each as did w/slide 13... Trade Position - Male in these notes

First of all, it's basically gibberish. I have no idea what it means or why he wrote it in this strangely telegraphic form. Second, who is he even asking? He's the writer! It's not my job to decide what the content should be—it's his.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Annie Subjunctive on May 29, 2014, 02:50:18 PM
I'm starting to enter your world of madness. Except I get the visual side of things. Today I was tasked with re-doing 19 eLearning modules that were built previously by an instructional designer who makes like $125 an hour and he billed it all to himself and burned through the budget before it was done.

So I get the joy of going in and re-working files to look good, which is a lot easier to do from the beginning because then you don't have to change the same tiny things on dozens of identical slides. (Isn't there a master slide function? Why yes, yes there is. And there are five separate masters in there that look basically the same and most of the styling isn't done on them.) And it's mind-blowingly bad. The font, size, and boldness of text in similar boxes will change on every single slide. In some slides everything randomly overlaps itself, and haphazard default colors are just thrown onto things.

Anyway - I'll gladly do it for pay, but why wasn't it billed out to a graphic designer in the first place?

The funny quote I came here to share, though, was a conversation between me and my superior:

Boss: I guess you have to scan it and send it back. But I don't think we have any scanners in here. Do you have an iPhone?
Me: No.
Boss: An Android phone?
Me: A flip phone.
Boss: Do they even still make flip phones?

Turns out the printer was also a scanner. Score one for the 21st century. Still not sure why we're in the digital media department and my timecards are on paper, though.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on May 29, 2014, 03:31:00 PM
Your boss didn't know that the copiers are also scanners? Also, your timecards are on paper? Weird.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on May 29, 2014, 03:55:33 PM
Your boss didn't know that the copiers are also scanners?
Sounds like he didn't know the printer is a multifunction machine.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on May 29, 2014, 04:28:40 PM
If it's anything like ours, it looks like a big copier but it's also a printer and scanner. So yes, he didn't know that the printer/copier is also a scanner.

I'm just surprised that someone's boss in digital media wouldn't know that.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: BlackBlade on May 29, 2014, 04:52:20 PM
Your boss didn't know that the copiers are also scanners? Also, your timecards are on paper? Weird.
Seriously.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on May 29, 2014, 06:15:55 PM
If it's anything like ours, it looks like a big copier but it's also a printer and scanner. So yes, he didn't know that the printer/copier is also a scanner.

I'm just surprised that someone's boss in digital media wouldn't know that.
I'm not.

Our copier can theoretically also be used as a scanner (and printer), but it lacks the right card and connection. Because of the contract we have, adding them would be quite expensive.

The much smaller machine which sits on my desk is both a printer and a scanner (and a copier, although it's rarely used for that purpose), but is only slightly larger than the printers which sit on my colleagues' desks. When we were shopping around for it, we looked at several models which looked even more like just a printer.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Annie Subjunctive on May 29, 2014, 07:01:46 PM
Ours was pretty obvious. To be fair, though, he's rather new and everything he ever does is digital.

I think my timecard is on paper because I'm an on-call employee. But seriously, friends.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on June 04, 2014, 01:07:42 PM
I'm working on an awful form that is being revised by someone who apparently doesn't know what the form should say. This is how the instructions at the top read on the last iteration:

Quote
S&I leaders fill out this report at the end of the term or semester and submit the form to their supervisor. This report should then be taken to each regular results discussion with your supervisor. At the end of the school year, submit the completed form to your supervisor.

So submit it to your supervisor, and then take it to your supervisor, and then submit it to your supervisor. Got it.

Then it was completely rewritten this morning, so it now reads:

Quote
S&I leaders complete regular results discussions with their employees at the end of each term. Based on those discussions, supervisors evaluate and record the progress of their program/area on this form. They then submit this form to their supervisor prior to having their regular results discussion with their supervisor.

So now the supervisors (the S&I leaders' supervisor?) fill out the form, and then they submit it to their supervisor, and then they have a discussion with their (the supervisors'?) supervisor.

It's supervisors and regular results discussions all the way down.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: BlackBlade on June 04, 2014, 03:51:59 PM
Maybe you should ask your supervisor what it means. Clearly it's a document touched by management.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on June 04, 2014, 04:22:29 PM
Except that my supervisor wouldn't know any more than I do—it's for a different department. But yes, definitely touched by management.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: BlackBlade on June 04, 2014, 08:48:51 PM
I was just trying to work in one more supervisor into the situation.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Annie Subjunctive on June 05, 2014, 09:28:54 AM
Can confirm: am editing training modules for translators. The answer to virtually every "quiz" question is "ask your supervisor."
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: dkw on June 05, 2014, 12:03:14 PM
I wonder what the supervisors' training modules say.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on June 05, 2014, 10:30:12 PM
The translators speak to the supervisors, the supervisors speak to the team leaders, and the team leaders speak to God.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on June 18, 2014, 03:12:38 PM
Quote
Writing this principle on the board will help students see its importance.

I never knew teaching was so easy—all you have to do is write stuff on the board, and the students will automatically see its significance all on their own!
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Annie Subjunctive on June 18, 2014, 04:25:12 PM
Oh heavens.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Annie Subjunctive on June 18, 2014, 04:27:13 PM
Jonathon, do you get the impression that a lot of your clients get away with their bad habits because they've been in their jobs for years upon years and the Church isn't a very cutthroat place to work? I get that impression. (And not just with clients, with some of the people in my department. It seems to me that their jobs are what you'd call in Chinese an "iron rice bowl.")
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on June 18, 2014, 04:30:43 PM
Oh heavens.

They probably taught you that in your PhD program, right?
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on June 18, 2014, 04:31:25 PM
I think I picked it up from a Pearl Buck novel.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: BlackBlade on June 18, 2014, 04:42:02 PM
Quote
Writing this principle on the board will help students see its importance.

I never knew teaching was so easy—all you have to do is write stuff on the board, and the students will automatically see its significance all on their own!
Well, to be fair, if a teacher merely speaks a phrase it's more forgetable than when a teacher speaks a phrase and writes it on the board.

It signals to the class the teacher really wants you to consider it. It's not foolproof obviously, at most you've bought maybe a few more seconds of your kid's attention, but as a principle it work, especially if you keep referring back to it.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on June 18, 2014, 10:34:36 PM
Speaking the principle out loud will help the students hear its importance.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on June 19, 2014, 11:39:33 AM
Jonathon, do you get the impression that a lot of your clients get away with their bad habits because they've been in their jobs for years upon years and the Church isn't a very cutthroat place to work? I get that impression. (And not just with clients, with some of the people in my department. It seems to me that their jobs are what you'd call in Chinese an "iron rice bowl.")

I think that's a large part of the problem. It seems that a lot of people think that once you get a job at the Church, you're set for life. This means that a lot of people just coast once they get here. The Church Office Building also has a very insular culture, so it's hard to change things, and there's a lot of respect for authority, even if that authority is wrong. Also, I think it's sometimes hard to attract the best people in the field when you can only hire people who are active LDS and the pay isn't quite as competitive. That quote came from a seminary manual, and the problem there is that the writers aren't professional writers or instructional designers or anything. They're not necessarily even subject-matter experts—they're just seminary teachers who have been called to come to headquarters and write. Some of my other clients obviously have no idea how the publishing process is supposed to work. They've been through like four or five final reviews now because they keep treating each one as another chance to rewrite things. It's ridiculous, and I really have no leverage over them. Publishing Services is supposed to be a customer-oriented organization, and the customer is always right.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Annie Subjunctive on June 20, 2014, 03:22:55 PM
Oh heavens.

They probably taught you that in your PhD program, right?

That was what I took out of it after all was said and done, yes.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on June 20, 2014, 03:37:19 PM
Speaking the principle out loud will help the students hear its importance.

Writing this principle on students' backs with your finger will help them feel its importance.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: dkw on June 21, 2014, 04:18:46 PM
Teachers won't have any trouble smelling the importance of these directions.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on June 21, 2014, 04:45:55 PM
 :D
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on June 24, 2014, 12:40:24 PM
Today, in Replies That Won't Be Sent:

Writer: "Is this written at a 4th-6th grade level? If not, can it be?"

Me: "I don't know, you tell me. You wrote the damn thing."
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on June 24, 2014, 02:22:05 PM
*snicker-snort*
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: BlackBlade on June 24, 2014, 06:22:46 PM
:D
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on July 04, 2014, 06:05:10 PM
Book blurb starts: "A rouge planet".

Um . . .
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: BlackBlade on July 04, 2014, 06:32:06 PM
Maybe it's the future, and planets have gained self-awareness and all belong to some inter-solar system and one of the planets has decided it doesn't care for rules like gravity.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on July 04, 2014, 08:59:52 PM
Book blurb starts: "A rouge planet".

Um . . .

Like Mars?
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Neutros the Radioactive Dragon on July 05, 2014, 06:45:38 AM
It was just blushing.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on July 07, 2014, 12:33:57 PM
Quote
Tradition holds that Isaiah died prematurely by being 'sawn asunder' at the hands of king Manasseh.
Being sawn asunder is a well-known cause of premature death.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on July 07, 2014, 01:26:02 PM
I saw a woman sawn asunder by a magician, and she was just fine.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: BlackBlade on July 07, 2014, 05:37:20 PM
So you're saying Isaiah alive and just waiting for somebody to give him the cue to reappear just fine from behind a curtain?!?!?!
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on July 07, 2014, 06:09:29 PM
Maybe Manasseh was a crappy magician who messed up the trick.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on July 07, 2014, 06:38:53 PM
It makes perfect sense.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Annie Subjunctive on July 10, 2014, 11:03:16 AM
:lol:
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Annie Subjunctive on September 17, 2014, 11:21:58 AM
Literally a quote from work: one of the clients we're helping has a curriculum written for military families facing the stress of deployment and separation. It's a tiny project that was written by elderly missionaries and isn't as bad as it could be considering the limited resources they had in creating it, but as I'm helping revise and update it I'm having to track down the sources of a lot of quotations they used and a lot of them are from really old or obscure sources.

This one was tricky, even though it was attributed:

Quote
"The deeper the dark, the closer the dawn. However profound the suffering that envelops you, never forget the inner spark of hope and courage. Never lose the capacity to wait with patient enduring. Every hardship is an opportunity to strengthen ourselves, to temper our life and make it shine with greater luster. If you are going through a dark time, remind yourself that dawn is very close. Hope and courage will sustain you."
- Bishop Drew Rousse, Faith Cathedral

A quick search for Bishop Drew Rousse showed that he's a motivational speaker and there's not really anything credible published by him anywhere that I could find, so I assumed he had probably used the quote in a speech and it was attributed to him. Searching for the quote itself gets me a lot of Buddhist "thought of the day" sites and Tumblrs. Several different people attribute it to Daisaku Ikeda. The part where this gets odd is that I am one of the few LDS Church employees who would probably know who Daisaku Ikeda is. And I find that fact that one of his quotes made it into an LDS class somewhere rather funny.

Ikeda Sensei is the president of Soka Gakkai, a modern sect of Buddhism. One of the places I lived on my mission, Hachioji, is the world headquarters of Soka Gakkai and home to their university. They're, to be polite, a little wacky. And I realize that it's a little ridiculous for a Mormon to call a religious group wacky, but they display flags with the Soka Gakkai logo outside their apartments and wear lapel pins to identify themselves all the time and if you are a missionary and run into one you get an interesting militaristic pre-rehearsed spiel just for Mormons. There's kind of a cult of personality around Ikeda and he's one of the reasons that most Japanese people mistrust religion and equate "sect" with "cult." Some people call SGI (Soka Gakkai International) the "Mormons of Buddhism," which makes this all a lot funnier, but having had experience with both groups I hope I could authoritatively say this isn't true.

So, you know, it's a nice-sounding quote, but not the most legit of materials and I think I'm going to recommend that they remove it. And giggle to myself about the really weird coincidence that led me to be the one researching its origins.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: BlackBlade on September 17, 2014, 04:31:22 PM
Your experiences with them sounds exactly like Falun Gong members in Taiwan.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Annie Subjunctive on September 17, 2014, 08:23:46 PM
I would say they're even weirder than Falun Gong. Plus, they try to manipulate Soka Gakkai members into political positions and they own significant shares in a lot of major companies like 7&i Holdings and the Daiso 100 Yen shops. I knew Japanese LDS members who refused to shop at Daiso because of that. No one stopped shopping at 7-11, though.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: BlackBlade on September 17, 2014, 11:36:31 PM
Falun Gong members light themselves on fire and believe their leader can fly. They also infiltrated disturbingly high echelons of the Communist Party apparatus before they were really noticed. Let's hope Soka Gakkai and Falun Gong never have a baby.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Annie Subjunctive on September 18, 2014, 09:20:15 AM
Ack! I just discovered in this same project that a list of "resiliency skills" they're using in the curriculum and as a handout is lifted pretty much word-for-word from resiliencyskills.com. That's kind of an IP problem.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on September 18, 2014, 10:09:52 AM
I've said before that there's a huge problem with plagiarism at the Church Office Building. I think it's done mostly out of ignorance, but that's still no excuse.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: dkw on September 18, 2014, 03:40:28 PM
When I was a TA for a Buddhist-Christian dialogue class the speakers the professor brought in to talk about Buddhism were from SGI. I think he liked them because part of their doctrine had some similarities to a particular Lutheran doctrine and he leaned on that for the correlations he was trying to draw. I just tried to make sure that the students realized that they were a particular sect and didn't represent all of Buddhism any more than one denomination represents all of Christianity.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on October 06, 2014, 04:24:53 PM
Quote
The argument with Dick Boulton is potentially embarrassing for the doctor since he loses his temper and is bullied by the bigger Dick . . .

The editor suggested rephrasing that last bit to avoid an unintentional double meaning. Uh, yeah, good idea.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: BlackBlade on October 06, 2014, 04:58:33 PM
*snerk*
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on October 06, 2014, 06:38:02 PM
A long-time financial aid person explaining the history behind the federally-mandated separation of duties.
Quote
When I first began, the financial aid director wrote checks from the federal account to students. But there was an incident when a financial aid director took all the funds, his secretary and his boat and was heading for Mexico. He got caught. Should have left the boat behind.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on October 06, 2014, 09:19:28 PM
Good advice, there.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Keith on October 07, 2014, 08:16:39 AM
Quote
The last thing we want to do is build a product that nobody uses, so we're really trying to cover our tracks in the early stages of the project.

This same guy is a frequent source of malapropisms.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on October 07, 2014, 08:57:59 AM
A long-time financial aid person explaining the history behind the federally-mandated separation of duties.
Quote
When I first began, the financial aid director wrote checks from the federal account to students. But there was an incident when a financial aid director took all the funds, his secretary and his boat and was heading for Mexico. He got caught. Should have left the boat behind.

I feel like I'm missing the joke.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on October 07, 2014, 09:17:56 AM
Maybe its funny-factor is not as mainstream as I'd thought.

After all, stealing thousands of bucks from the government, not to mention from students waiting for checks, isn't such a big deal. Just getting caught. ;)
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on October 28, 2014, 02:01:27 PM
Quote
Suppose you see the sign in figure 5.1 at a local library. This sign would indicate that the library has handicapped parking or maybe a wheelchair ramp. This sign is a symbol indicating that there are certain accommodations for disabled people. There are many symbols in today’s world. Many of these symbols exist in mathematics.
I hate this entire paragraph. It's just . . . ugh.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Keith on October 28, 2014, 02:07:33 PM
I kind of laughed when I got to the final sentence.  I had NO IDEA from the preceding text that we'd be talking about math. 
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on October 28, 2014, 02:11:37 PM
Actually, the next paragraph is pretty bad too:

Quote
Mathematical expressions are a combination of numbers and operations. There are four operations. These are addition, subtraction, multiplication, and division. In algebra we use different symbols for some of these operations. Let’s look at different ways these operations can be represented.

There's nothing that explicitly connects symbols and operators, and I think they might mean "operators" when they say "operations". Plus, there's a lot more than four operations.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on October 28, 2014, 02:13:29 PM
I kind of laughed when I got to the final sentence.  I had NO IDEA from the preceding text that we'd be talking about math. 

Well, if you were enrolled in this seventh-grade math course, you'd probably have some idea that we'd be talking about math. ;)

But I think that still goes to show how badly written the paragraph is. It starts off on a seemingly irrelevant topic (why are we talking about handicapped symbols in a math course?) and then suddenly jumps to math without any transition.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on October 28, 2014, 03:17:51 PM
With a few notable exceptions, over the past 20-30 years, American elementary, junior high, and high school math books have become less and less about math, and more and more about all kinds of other stuff. Textbook indices used to have things like "multiplication". Now you're more likely to find "hamburger" (because a sidebar on one page talked about them).

Those quotes are not an exception to this dreadful trend.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on October 28, 2014, 03:45:34 PM
I don't have a problem with the content per se; I think think it's a really clumsily written and roundabout way of saying "algebra sometimes uses different symbols for these operations." It especially sticks out because the rest of the course content is not like that—it's totally dry and boring, but it's just about math.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on October 28, 2014, 05:47:22 PM
Fair enough.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: pooka on November 14, 2014, 09:53:47 AM
Rather than circumventing the inevitable question "when will I use this in real life" they cement the idea that math is about things you already knew everything about before you got to math.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on November 14, 2014, 09:08:53 PM
With a few notable exceptions, over the past 20-30 years, American elementary, junior high, and high school math books have become less and less about math, and more and more about all kinds of other stuff. Textbook indices used to have things like "multiplication". Now you're more likely to find "hamburger" (because a sidebar on one page talked about them).

Those quotes are not an exception to this dreadful trend.

You might appreciate this week's Sherman's Lagoon (http://shermanslagoon.com/comics/november-10-2014/) strips.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on November 16, 2014, 08:43:32 AM
 >_<

(But yes, amusing.)
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Annie Subjunctive on November 26, 2014, 12:13:46 PM
I'm personally a bit of a champion for the new ways we teach math. All the facebook ranting about common core (it's not common core, it's just more modern pedagogy) insists that "the way we learned it" was just fine. And it was, if the intent is just to teach how to use algorithms. But in the past we weren't actually very good at teaching numeracy, which we're a lot better at now. So no, you might not understand your child's homework, but that doesn't mean that the teachers are being ridiculous. It means we're teaching math concepts and not just how to use algorithms.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on November 26, 2014, 12:48:22 PM
Except they increasingly get to college without basic math knowledge. And this is true at prestigious and selective schools.

For some types of math knowledge, memorization is not merely a necessary evil; it is deeply necessary. And maybe not actually all that evil. (And I say this as someone who loathed being required to memorize things.)
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Annie Subjunctive on November 26, 2014, 01:32:18 PM
Well, I would argue that what they know by the time they get to college has a lot to do with high-stakes assessment, in math and every other subject. We don't teach students anything permanent when their assessments are so arbitrary and ineffective.

I'd have to look into the literature, but I'd say that students that are taught well with more conceptual methods do have better retention of concepts. In fact, I'm sure that's what the literature says because that's what my peers in math education are championing lately. The problem, as always, is in translating what we know works from research into what is actually achieved in the classroom environment.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on November 26, 2014, 01:36:19 PM
The problem, as always, is in translating what we know works from research into what is actually achieved in the classroom environment.
This I agree with.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on December 04, 2014, 02:21:59 PM
From one of my friends at the Church Office Building:

Quote
of all the words I expect to hear while working in the COB, vulva wasn't one of them
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on December 04, 2014, 06:24:56 PM
*snicker*
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Annie Subjunctive on December 05, 2014, 11:21:50 AM
From one of my friends at the Church Office Building:

Quote
of all the words I expect to hear while working in the COB, vulva wasn't one of them

I get a lot of interesting ones from my hidden cubicle next to the elevators, but haven't heard that one yet. Today was talk of an R2 unit with a bad motivator. Yesterday was a girl singing the "folk song" from Mockingjay that was then in my head the rest of the day.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on December 12, 2014, 10:23:37 AM
Quote
Focus for a moment on the rhythm of his lines. Notice how many words are in each line. In the first verse, there are seven words in each line, but in the second verse there are six words in each line. Now count the syllables in each line. When I first examined the rhythm in this poem, I was amazed. Despite the different word counts, the number of syllables in each line remains the same.

Wow! That really is amazing! Who ever could have guessed that a good poet could keep the same syllable count in every line of metered verse?
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on December 12, 2014, 10:27:16 AM
Amazing indeed.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on December 12, 2014, 10:35:43 AM
Then the instructor talks about how she often gets poems like this from students:

Quote
Quote
My dog Brandy,
Is often handy
When people come to prowl
Brandy starts to howl.
She also is quite sweet
And sits beside my feet
Making me feel love
More than a mourning dove
Yes, the above lines do make up a poem, and the lines rhyme and have rhythm, but because the poet focused so much on the rhyming and the rhythmic elements of the poem, the word choice lacks power.
The lines have rhythm? If herky-jerky is a rhythm, I guess.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: dkw on December 12, 2014, 11:11:20 AM
I took a poetry writing class in undergrad.  The instructor very much favored "rhythm" over meter. She couldn't actually define rhythm for us, but apparently knew it when she saw it.  She claimed that traditional poetic forms were too restrictive for down to earth poems that connected to real life. They're only good for floaty, ethereal stuff.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on December 12, 2014, 12:00:54 PM
*sigh*

Meter is really not hard. I don't get why even English teachers don't understand it.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on December 15, 2014, 01:54:41 AM
In a dispute between two nursing home residents, one in her 90's and one in her 70's: "I'm old enough to be your mother!"  "Oh?  Then act your age!"
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Brinestone on December 15, 2014, 08:59:24 PM
That's awesome! :)
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on January 29, 2015, 03:18:53 PM
Quote
Therefore, students who apply themselves will be able to demonstrate competence in the following areas:

  • The ability to demonstrate an understanding of the foundational or factual information essential for a basic understanding of LDS scripture, doctrine and history.

So students should have the ability to demonstrate competence in the ability to demonstrate an understanding? Got it.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on January 29, 2015, 04:08:10 PM
 :wacko:
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: BlackBlade on February 01, 2015, 10:47:07 PM
*barf*
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Annie Subjunctive on February 15, 2015, 07:17:49 AM
It all started when researchers said that educational objectives need to be actions. So now people try really hard to make vague nothingness sound like an action.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: pooka on February 28, 2015, 01:42:53 PM
I competenced that.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on March 03, 2015, 12:51:38 PM
Are the following instructions clear?

Quote
Complete the following reading assignments from The Spell of the Sensuous: Perception and Language in a More-Than-Human World:
1.   “Preface” (ix–x)
   “The Ecology of Magic” (3–29)
2.   “Philosophy on the Way to Ecology” (31–53, 57)
3.   “Philosophy on the Way to Ecology” (62–72 (top))
   “The Flesh of Language” (86–89)
   “Time, Space, and the Eclipse of the Earth” (181–84 (top))
4.   “Time, Space, and the Eclipse of the Earth” (201–23)
   “The Forgetting and Remembering of the Air” (225–27, 258–60)
For each of the four reading assignments listed above . . .

The original had "Read the following chapters" instead of "Complete the following reading assignments", and the editor was confused about the numbering system. I think it solves the problem if I make it clear up front that each numbered item is a reading assignment, even if it contains multiple sections of text.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: dkw on March 03, 2015, 12:57:52 PM
Sadly, I have to say no.  Students will not correctly interpret those instructions.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on March 03, 2015, 01:15:56 PM
Any suggestions? I considered having something like this:

Quote
Complete the following reading assignments from The Spell of the Sensuous: Perception and Language in a More-Than-Human World:
1. Reading assignment 1
     • Preface (ix–x)
     • “The Ecology of Magic” (3–29)
2. Reading assignment 2
     • blah blah

Does that help?
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on March 03, 2015, 02:59:38 PM
I think it does.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on March 03, 2015, 03:09:06 PM
Okay, thanks. It's a bit of a pain because lists in Word are the devil, but I'll manage somehow.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: dkw on March 03, 2015, 04:11:10 PM
How about moving the instructions to the top, making it "For each of the four assignments below read the selections and . . . "

Then you can list them the first way.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on March 03, 2015, 05:25:14 PM
I can't remember how lengthy the instructions that follow the list are. I'll have to look at it again tomorrow. Maybe I'll talk it over with the instructional designer too and see if she's got any ideas.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on March 04, 2015, 07:59:10 AM
How about moving the instructions to the top, making it "For each of the four assignments below read the selections and . . . "

Then you can list them the first way.

I just looked at it again, and I don't think that would work. The instructions that follow are kind of long, so I think it might confuse students to see "assignments below" and then not see the list right away.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: dkw on March 04, 2015, 08:43:33 AM
Are the four assignments for separate weeks?  I'm having trouble understanding why it's four assignments instead of one assignment or eight reading assignments. I get that the later instructions group the selections for whatever comes next, but "four reading assignments" seems really weird to me. If it is for separate weeks or days, how about labeling them "Day one" Day two" etc., and using "For each day's reading assignment . . . "
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on March 04, 2015, 09:44:40 AM
Because for each reading assignment, there's a one-page writing assignment. Thus the student writes four separate one-page papers on each set of readings. My first reaction was the same as yours, but it makes more sense in the full context of the lesson.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on March 09, 2015, 03:13:49 PM
Quote
One scholar (Remi Brague), for example, has proposed that a distinctive feature of the Greek language might have been a decisive factor.
This language, Brague tells us, possessed a rare grammatical feature that lent itself to the abstraction necessary to philosophy. It was possible in Greek, Brague explains, but not in other languages, to speak, not only of a “whole this” or a “whole that,” but of the concept of “The Whole” (ta panta). What if Greeks were able to speculate about “The Whole,” that is, “The Cosmos,” because they, unlike other peoples, were first able to say it? Is it not intriguing to consider that Western Civilization, and thus the revelation of certain fundamental human possibilities, might have sprung from such a linguistic quirk?

Ugh, no. This is a terrible argument, and most linguists would laugh at it. If anything, the causation is probably reversed: the Greeks started thinking of "the whole" and used the word panta to refer to it. And apparently this root goes back to Proto-Indo-European, so this so-called linguistic quirk is not a uniquely Greek. So if the PIE language had this word, and if the word can magically cause people to develop philosophy, then why didn't philosophy arise 6,000 years ago in the steppes of western Asia?
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on March 18, 2015, 09:22:24 AM
Is it normal to refer to Thomas Aquinas as simply Thomas? My field isn't religion and philosophy, but I think I've mostly heard him referred to as Aquinas.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: dkw on March 18, 2015, 11:19:12 AM
It's not uncommon. 

His spin-offs are Thomistic theology and Thomists, not Aquinian theology and Aquinists.

Depending on audience I would probably use full name for first reference and Aquinas afterward in a formal paper, though.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on March 18, 2015, 11:39:56 AM
Danke schön!
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on April 20, 2015, 01:24:49 PM
Quote
I broke my jaw and dislocated my other jaw.

How many jaws does this author have? I know that technically you have an upper and lower jaw, but I don't think anyone would say that they broke their jaw if they broke the maxilla. I think she means that she broke one side of her mandible and dislocated the other.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: pooka on April 26, 2015, 07:00:24 PM
Maybe she's one of Ridley Scott's
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on April 26, 2015, 09:55:25 PM
 ;D
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on May 06, 2015, 03:57:11 PM
Quote
an alumni

 >_<
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on May 13, 2015, 12:24:41 PM
Quote
She met her husband of almost twenty-five years at BYU and has lived in Orem ever since.

The editor's comment: "Was he almost 25 when they met or have they been married for almost 25 years? This is a little unclear."

*headdesk*
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on May 14, 2015, 06:04:53 PM
I found this amusing, and thought at least some of this crowd might as well.

Quote from: registrars' listserv
Most official documents now are stripped of all their special characters (and character!), so if a student declares it, we'll typically use it. So, yes, on our diplomas we have circumflexes, umlauts, tiles, accents, carets, and cedillas!
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on May 14, 2015, 08:06:44 PM
I don't think I get it.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on May 14, 2015, 10:28:48 PM
Maybe it's only funny to registrars, after all.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on May 15, 2015, 07:49:15 AM
Quote
She met her husband of almost twenty-five years at BYU and has lived in Orem ever since.

So, out of curiosity, does anyone else think this is ambiguous?
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on May 15, 2015, 07:54:46 AM
It sounded to me like they've been married for 25 years.  If the writer meant he was 25 years old, it would be "She met her husband at BYU when he was 25".
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on May 15, 2015, 08:31:13 AM
Agreed.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on May 15, 2015, 09:06:59 AM
My husband of five years earned his PhD.

My husband earned his PhD when he was five.

Totally not mix-up-able.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: dkw on May 15, 2015, 11:10:21 AM
Quote
She met her husband of almost twenty-five years at BYU and has lived in Orem ever since.

So, out of curiosity, does anyone else think this is ambiguous?

Not in the slightest.

I suspect your student editor has never encountered the construction "husband of ___ years" and had to stop and think about it so it seems ambiguous to them.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on May 15, 2015, 11:13:43 AM
I'm really having a hard time seeing how someone could construe it the wrong way, even if they've never seen that kind of construction before.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Annie Subjunctive on May 15, 2015, 02:45:05 PM
Yeah, I never would have interpreted to be about his age.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Annie Subjunctive on June 09, 2015, 02:01:07 PM
There's a lady at work who does voiceover work for free. We have paid, professional people who do voiceovers, but you have to have them bill to your project and it isn't cheap so this lady in the department who has a very good voice but doesn't require billing is really helpful for small-budget projects.

I had been aware of her, so I approached her about the narration for a video I'm doing. She was more than happy to help out, but when I got the audio files back I realized I'd heard her work before and it drove me absolutely batty.

My video is about calibrating pH meters. She decided she needed to clearly enunciate the /t/ in nearly every occurrence of the word meter, as well as water and button. Now, button doesn't sound quite so stilted, it comes across as someone just trying to be clear, but there is no one in the English-speaking world who says or expects to hear /mitəɹ/. British dialects will use /t/, yes, but most of them don't pronounce the /ɹ/. It sounds really bizarre and stilted the way the narration came out.

I felt bad asking for a re-take since she did it for free, but tried to word it nicely. I told her I was looking for a more "conversational" feel and linked her to an online dictionary's pronunciation, asking if she could pronounce it that way.

Her answer was, "Yeah, I originally pronounced it with a D but went back to re-do it. The D is just super Utah and so any time I produce something for outside of Utah I like to make sure the T is there."

.... would whoever is telling people lies about their "Utah accents" please stop? No, that isn't super Utah, that's something that every other American English speaker does.

I didn't say that, but I did want to reply, so I told her not to worry about having a Utah accent, she sounded very standard American to me.

Goodness.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on June 09, 2015, 03:06:55 PM
I think I'd let her know that's a general American English thing. Otherwise she'll probably keep overenunciating on other stuff.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Annie Subjunctive on June 09, 2015, 09:54:27 PM
I want to. I'm not sure how well she'll buy my authority on the subject, though.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Annie Subjunctive on June 11, 2015, 12:43:54 PM
Argh. I think I've learned my lesson just not to go with the free voiceover lady. She fixed her pronunciation of "meter" for me, but there are so many other places where she's just awkward and strained. She paces sentences really oddly. Her voice has a nice quality, so it sounds really professional, but then the sentences are just so stilted that the end result is weirdness.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: pooka on June 19, 2015, 08:28:12 AM
Did you see "In a World"?  I don't know that I can recommend it since it frequently crossed into raunchy territory.  It was just interesting to explore the idea of people who take voiceover so seriously.  In the follow up ending, they showed that it can be pretty important in how you present yourself.  Though it's hard to believe that people with that kind of problem wouldn't just note the problem and correct it.  I know my hair looks ridiculous, but since I'm not currently being paid by anyone to look professional, I'm going to keep rocking the 1st year Hermione look. 
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on July 05, 2015, 10:53:06 AM
I'm editing a department self-study report, and I keep running into stuff like this:

Quote
Measures of Success: The ability to produce a report that will illustrate a percentage of knowledge/learning gained (from pre and post-assessment) through having taken courses in four discipline areas (Math, English, Languages, and Science). All courses in these four disciplines will have pre and post-assessments developed and deployed, and a goal for percent of knowledge/learning increase will have an established baseline and goal for each course and for the four disciplines.

Our measure of success is not the report itself, but merely the ability to produce one? The goal will have an established baseline? The goal for percent of knowledge/learning increase will have a goal for each course?
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: dkw on July 05, 2015, 03:56:40 PM
Somebody put the actual paragraph in a blender and that was the result.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on July 06, 2015, 10:16:58 AM
That seems to be the most reasonable explanation.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Annie Subjunctive on July 10, 2015, 12:16:10 PM
Quote
Training on coaching involves goal-setting, empowering and inspiring their people

Do any of those words mean anything in the real world?
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: dkw on July 10, 2015, 06:26:30 PM
Is the sentence about soccer?
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Annie Subjunctive on July 10, 2015, 10:07:02 PM
:lol:

It had nothing to do with coaching at all. I have no idea where the coaching came from.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on July 20, 2015, 03:40:52 PM
More gems from our self-study:

Quote
Within the department’s operations section the customer support team, comprised of 12 full-time employees and 94 student employees, interactions between students and the department are handled (enrollment counseling, registration assistance, providing course materials, answering basic questions and questions about department policies and procedures, overseeing exam and proctoring, resolving technical support issues).

Quote
Also within operations there are 8 full-time employees, 17 part-time employees, and 17 independent contractors that market the courses and program, manage enrollments – including promotion, advertising, public relations, and customer-partner relationships.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on July 20, 2015, 09:09:03 PM
I judge them harshly in the sentencing.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on July 20, 2015, 09:52:52 PM
I don't really understand how college-educated people who work at a friggin' university can write so badly. Those aren't even complete sentences!
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on July 21, 2015, 12:19:26 PM
It just won't stop.

Quote
In short, as the course is built teachers plan into the assessments possible answers responses that discriminate as to whether or not the student knows the correct answer from, and as well as distracting answers possibilities. The distracting answer possibilities are used as and provide meaningful instructor guidance to clarify commonly misunderstood concepts, wrong answers, and poor responses.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on July 21, 2015, 03:12:53 PM
Speaking of distracting answers . . . .  :wacko:
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on July 22, 2015, 04:37:51 AM
Was that written by a non-native speaker?
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on July 22, 2015, 07:55:13 AM
Yes, it was written by a business major.



(Okay, so I don't actually know that.)
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on July 22, 2015, 07:57:58 AM
 ;D
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Annie Subjunctive on July 22, 2015, 11:07:33 AM
I just realized that the one client who I have the most headaches with is a micromanager. Things are all starting to fall into place. I made this realization when the most recent change he requested was a change to the wording on a slide - the wording that an editor, you know the editor in the editing department who edits, had suggested we use. So it's not just my job he feels more qualified to do.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on August 05, 2015, 08:21:36 PM
Quote
its'

*wallbash*
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on August 07, 2015, 10:23:25 AM
Quote
Fraud is illegal and it is against the law.

But is it also unlawful?
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on August 07, 2015, 10:28:38 AM
Quote
its'

*wallbash*

Next time, try bashing the offending party into the wall. It's much more effective AND more satisfying.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Annie Subjunctive on August 07, 2015, 11:50:11 AM
Quote
Fraud is illegal and it is against the law.

But is it also unlawful?

:lol:
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on August 07, 2015, 12:15:04 PM
Next time, try bashing the offending party into the wall. It's much more effective AND more satisfying.
Sadly, it is also unlawful.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on August 07, 2015, 12:32:06 PM
Dang it.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on August 11, 2015, 12:26:58 PM
One of the editors just changed "mother-son, father-daughter, and father-son dyads" to "mother-son, father-daughter, and father-son dads". :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on August 11, 2015, 02:47:00 PM
:facepalm:
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on August 11, 2015, 02:55:06 PM
I will never understand the tendency of some editors to think, "I don't know that word—it must be wrong."
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on August 11, 2015, 03:43:07 PM
Yeah, and how hard is it to look it up? Or just Google it?
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on August 11, 2015, 03:45:23 PM
Seriously. And editors should really be in the habit of looking up unfamiliar words and phrases.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on August 11, 2015, 04:07:27 PM
No joke.

A (very recently retired) editor I know used to keep a huge unabridged dictionary on her desk, and was grateful when it became available on CD instead.


My :facepalm: of the day (from an instructor, who really should know better) is syllabi's. As the plural of syllabus . . . .
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on August 11, 2015, 04:45:35 PM
 >_<
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on August 17, 2015, 01:01:23 PM
From an author bio:

Quote
Named in Who’s Who in America for the last ten years . . .

 :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on August 17, 2015, 02:54:35 PM
I think that needs the super-big eye-rollie. Seriously, you need to have a pulse to get in those. And sometimes even that requirement is waived. :P
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on August 17, 2015, 03:13:26 PM
I remember getting a letter when I was in high school saying that I'd been chosen for inclusion in Who's Who among American High School Students. Incidentally, they offered copies of the book for only $49.95 (or whatever it was). I think they also offered plaques and certificates and whatnot.

To a naive kid with an overly large ego, it was flattering. And yet even I could tell that the whole thing was pretty scammy and thus not really an honor.

Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on August 17, 2015, 07:22:03 PM
I got one of those in high school too.

And a similar one not long after I started working in higher ed.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: pooka on August 19, 2015, 04:27:03 PM
A learning activity on communication in nursing gives this example of confusing cause and effect:  "The moon is full-- we'll have a lot of psychiatric patients". 

It's superstitious and irrational, but I don't think there's any argument than increases of psychiatric patients could cause a full moon. 
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on August 19, 2015, 09:11:58 PM
From my experience, an increase in psychiatric behavior issues causes an increased perception of full moon.   I hear all the time that the patients are all acting up, so there must be a full moon.   If I say that, no, actually it's a waxing quarter, the other nurses look at me like I just don't get it.   Sometimes they'll even argue back that it has to be a full moon or why else would everyone be acting so crazy.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Nighthawk on August 20, 2015, 06:45:53 AM
From an author bio:

Quote
Named in Who’s Who in America for the last ten years . . .

 :rolleyes:

Well, if the email invitations are any indication, I would have been on that list the last thirty years had I decided to actually pay them for such an honor.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Annie Subjunctive on August 31, 2015, 12:58:43 PM
The narration in the module I'm currently working on says:

"You should always make sure to wash your hands before handling food, donning gloves, and touching food contact surfaces."

I have a picture appearing when the narrator lists each of the three situations: first, a hand holding a peach. Secondly, someone putting on a glove. Finally, someone washing a food conveyor belt.

I just got the list of feedback from my distressingly picky client. "Picture of the peach has an ungloved hand, we shouldn’t handle food without gloves."

So . . . why are we telling them to wash their hands before handling food or donning gloves? Wash your hands before handling food or donning gloves, but don't touch food without donning gloves. So, you know. Maybe just wash your gloved hands to be safe.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on August 31, 2015, 02:00:20 PM
Wash your hands, then wash your gloves, then put on your gloves, then wash your gloved hands.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: pooka on September 22, 2015, 07:58:03 PM
And never use your teeth to doff your gloves.  Please sneak doff into the manual!  For me.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Annie Subjunctive on October 01, 2015, 10:46:18 AM
More fun from the client who likes to do my job. He recently insisted that he and his committee write all final quizzes because they feel like the questions I write are "tricky and too hard." He said I could still write the mid-module comprehension checks that "don't count." Thanks, friend.

So here is one of the items I wrote, paring it down a lot in terms of the higher thinking skills, scenario-based items that are considered best practice:

Quote
Why is HACCP an improvement over food processing practices of the past?

- HACCP allows you to check for hazards during production rather than waiting until the end.

- HACCP allows you to detect every issue that comes up during production.

- NASA astronauts were healthier after eating food produced with the HACCP process.

- Food processing practices of the past did not allow you to test random samples.

He said that even though my correct answer (the first) is "technically correct," we should change it to something more accurate, so it reads:

Quote
Why is HACCP an improvement over food processing practices of the past?

- HACCP stresses identifying probable significant hazards before production and then verifying they are not present in the product during production.

- HACCP allows you to detect every issue that comes up during production.

- NASA astronauts were healthier after eating food produced with the HACCP process.

- Food processing practices of the past did not allow you to test random samples.

You're right. Waaaay better than the hard, tricky questions I write.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on October 01, 2015, 11:05:32 AM
>.<
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on October 01, 2015, 11:06:03 AM
Also, it's not at all obvious that the response that's literally twice as long as all the others is the correct response.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Annie Subjunctive on October 01, 2015, 01:57:26 PM
Also, it's not at all obvious that the response that's literally twice as long as all the others is the correct response.

This is exactly one of the principles in a document I sent him that lists best practices in writing multiple choice questions. When he insisted that they write their own questions, I said that would be OK as long as they would use the list of principles as a guide. They either never glanced at it once or enjoy willfully disobeying it, because all of the quizzes they send me are full of flagrant violations.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Annie Subjunctive on October 02, 2015, 09:11:32 AM
"You know how you said those videos I took were too fuzzy to use? Can you double check? Because I used two different cameras and I think one was better."

Me: checks. "Actually, it looks like all the videos are the same resolution. They're all 568 pixels wide, which is why they're too fuzzy to use. Our screen is 1024 pixels wide."

"Yeah, but I think on one of the cameras the lens was dirty or something so maybe the other ones are better."
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: pooka on October 03, 2015, 04:10:12 PM
I bet his answer has the advantage of being a verbatim quote from the materials.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Annie Subjunctive on October 05, 2015, 10:58:13 AM
Not the materials I wrote. Just a verbatim quote from the way everything needs to work in his mind. That's where a lot of the feedback I get comes from, I think.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on October 08, 2015, 11:15:07 AM
"I'm not going to get a flu shot.  You call it a shot, but it's really a vaccine.  I can't afford to get autism and bring it home to my kids."

-- A Healthcare Co-worker

(so much facepalm)
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on October 08, 2015, 11:25:14 AM
Oh, dear god. Facepalm is right.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on October 08, 2015, 11:42:26 AM
Sadly, there is still no vaccine against stupidity.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on October 08, 2015, 02:25:08 PM
Quote
often you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him think....
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on October 08, 2015, 09:01:10 PM
Yeah.  No horse sense.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Annie Subjunctive on October 09, 2015, 02:41:38 PM
-- A Healthcare Co-worker

You mean this person had some sort of training in healthcare? And still thinks that vaccines cause autism? And that it can be developed in adulthood? And that it's somehow contagious?

And also thought that you were disguising the fact that the flu shot was a vaccine?

That's at least four facepalms. I don't have that many palms.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on October 09, 2015, 04:13:43 PM
But that many faces you have?
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on October 09, 2015, 05:19:53 PM
However many people are in the room with her at any given moment.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Farmgirl on October 14, 2015, 03:21:20 PM
I would dearly love to :facepalm: on someone else's face sometimes..
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on October 14, 2015, 03:21:57 PM
I second that.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on October 14, 2015, 04:19:46 PM
Eww.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: pooka on October 18, 2015, 04:48:56 PM
People can work in healthcare without having any college, much less science coursework, or they can get through on Cs, technically. 
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on October 27, 2015, 10:55:32 AM
Editing catch of the day: "differenchiate".
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on October 27, 2015, 11:01:22 AM
It's a perfectly understandable spelling. :)
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on October 27, 2015, 11:10:11 AM
English spelling really is terrible.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on October 27, 2015, 11:23:21 AM
I'm trying to come up with a less controversial statement that isn't a tautology.

I'm failing.

But here are the two closest I could come up with:

Puppies are really cute.

The Star Wars prequels were a disappointment.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: dkw on October 27, 2015, 12:16:18 PM
Editing catch of the day: "differenchiate".

My brain keeps trying to process that as an actual word (other than the one it's supposed to be, I mean) but I can't decide what the definition would be.

Something to do with dentistry, maybe.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on October 28, 2015, 08:52:34 PM
Quote from: listserv
Welcome to today's episode of: What Does That Degree Really Mean Anyway? Today's contestant is the [specific degree]. (If you don't offer a [specific degree], then you may take your lovely parting gifts now.)

1. What differentiates the [specific degree] from the BA?

2. How many credits are in your [specific degree]?

Thanks for playing!
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on October 28, 2015, 09:05:01 PM
I'm not sure I understand.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on October 28, 2015, 09:17:35 PM
It's like a gameshow! But it's really a question about how various schools handle a particular kind of specialized degree!

(Ok, maybe this is another one only funny to registrars.)
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: dkw on October 29, 2015, 06:10:30 AM
BLS?
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on October 29, 2015, 07:18:08 AM
BFA, actually.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on October 29, 2015, 09:01:59 AM
I have a BA, BS, and BSN.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: pooka on October 30, 2015, 12:38:39 PM
What are your BA and BS in?
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on October 30, 2015, 01:01:54 PM
English and Psychology.

Just 'cause the way it worked out, I managed to acquire all that in only four undergraduate years.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: pooka on November 01, 2015, 07:50:02 AM
Cool.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on November 24, 2015, 09:40:41 AM
Quote
The bottom line is that food is super important.

Oh!
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on November 24, 2015, 10:10:23 AM
Is T-Rex a contributing author?
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on November 24, 2015, 10:11:06 AM
Sadly, no, but that really does sound like a T-Rex line.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on January 20, 2016, 06:52:50 PM
Quote
"gliche"
The quote marks were included in the original. >_<
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on April 04, 2016, 02:42:01 PM
In a discussion as to whether international students should be given extra time on exams:
Quote
We had a professor who did give all his international students a bit of extra time on exams.  When the Americans complained he told them he would be happy to give them the extra time and they could pick the language [other than English] they would like to take the test in.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on April 04, 2016, 02:56:20 PM
 :D
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on May 23, 2016, 12:52:40 PM
"for your FYI"
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on May 23, 2016, 05:22:18 PM
:faceplam:
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on May 23, 2016, 09:23:54 PM
I like it.   For your FYI, I got $60 from the automatic teller ATM so I could buy something for the bring your own BYOB party.

Oh my OMG!
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on May 23, 2016, 09:36:55 PM
Literally laughing out LOL.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on May 31, 2016, 02:24:09 PM
From a math lesson on line equations:

Quote
Many of you will have seen lines before.

I feel bad for those students from poor families who couldn't afford lines. They must have been so lost when they got to this lesson.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Annie Subjunctive on May 31, 2016, 03:17:53 PM
"for your FYI"

Is there any possibility they were trying to be clever here? I can see myself saying that in a casual group email trying to be funny.

But it probably wasn't, was it? It was probably a treatise on political instability in sub-Saharan Africa.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on May 31, 2016, 03:33:20 PM
I don't think it was supposed to be funny. It was said in a meeting, and I'm guessing it was just an accident.

I'm still a big fan of "as a for example", though. I had a boss who used that all the time.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on May 31, 2016, 04:06:34 PM
From a math lesson on line equations:

Quote
Many of you will have seen lines before.

I feel bad for those students from poor families who couldn't afford lines. They must have been so lost when they got to this lesson.
;D
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on May 31, 2016, 09:04:38 PM
I don't think it was supposed to be funny. It was said in a meeting, and I'm guessing it was just an accident.

I'm still a big fan of "as a for example", though. I had a boss who used that all the time.
I'm partial to "as a f'r'instance".
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on June 09, 2016, 01:08:06 PM
Quote
In 1884, Thomas Edison invented the vacuum tube. We know it today as the light bulb.

My first reaction was  >_<. Apparently it's not too far off from the truth, though—lots of people, Edison included, were experimenting with evacuated tubes, and what we know as a vacuum tube grew out of that research. Of course, Edison wasn't really the first person to invent the light bulb, either—he's just the first one to make a commercially viable light bulb.

So, actually, my reaction is still  >_<.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on June 29, 2016, 11:41:43 AM
"I haven't ever worked with accessibility text before. Is that some sort of political correctness thing?"
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on June 29, 2016, 11:50:15 AM
That's adorable.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on June 29, 2016, 12:20:34 PM
:facepalm:
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on June 29, 2016, 12:54:32 PM
Yeah, because making courses accessible to people with disabilities is just a fad about catering to people who are easily offended rather than a legal and moral obligation to make sure that people with disabilities have an equal opportunity to get an education.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on July 06, 2016, 09:28:17 AM
"It's so much quicker to ask you than to look it up myself."
"I'm not going to remember any of this."
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on July 06, 2016, 09:37:42 AM
 :wacko:
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on July 06, 2016, 01:19:18 PM
Pro tip: When your boss is teaching you a skill that is critical to your job, don't tell him that you're not going to remember any of it, as if saying that excuses you from having to know it. If you're really struggling to learn something, then we need to have an honest talk about it, not a flippant remark.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on July 06, 2016, 01:35:35 PM
These are coming from your direct reports? Oh, that's just criminally stupid.

Comments like that are bad enough when they come from colleagues or people who don't report to you directly.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on July 06, 2016, 01:48:03 PM
Yup.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on July 21, 2016, 01:59:02 PM
I edited a transcription of this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S64s3GrZlSM), and there's a part where the transcription left something blank because they couldn't understand what was being said. (It's at 3:35, if anyone's curious.) I watched the video, figured out that he was saying "air purifier", and inserted the change.

Someone following after me watched the same clip and apparently disagreed. They made a comment saying, "This was in Japanese."

Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on July 21, 2016, 02:03:25 PM
I also marked that "Ctlopan" should be "6LoWPAN" at 4:33, but this person disagreed (even though "6LoWPAN" is clearly visible on screen) and said it should be 6LoPAN. They wrote, "I checked this with the video—but I'll check again if you want." Okay, sure, except that 6LoWPAN (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6LoWPAN) is a thing and 6LoPAN isn't (https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=6lopan).
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Keith on July 25, 2016, 12:53:51 PM
>_<
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on July 27, 2016, 02:07:54 PM
I like it.   For your FYI, I got $60 from the automatic teller ATM so I could buy something for the bring your own BYOB party.

Oh my OMG!
Literally laughing out LOL.

I think I need to lie down for a while after reading those.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on August 01, 2016, 03:05:35 PM
A job applicant took our editing test and made some questionable changes. She circled "cutting" and "rocketing" in the phrase "cutting up ski slopes and rocketing through bobsled runs", the word "doggedly", and the phrase "lion's share", and then she made the following comment that applied to all of them: "do not use words that most people do not know the meaning of; keep it simple".

Um, sorry, but if you don't know the meaning of those words and phrases and can't even figure them out from context, then I think the problem is you.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on August 01, 2016, 06:42:01 PM
Um, sorry, but if you don't know the meaning of those words and phrases and can't even figure them out from context, then I think the problem is you.
>_<

Yes.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on August 05, 2016, 09:31:15 AM
In a stats course that one of my people is editing, there's an equation that looks like (a)×(b)/(c). The editor asked whether there should be spaces around the multiplication sign, and I said yes, but I pointed out that there should probably be parentheses around either (a)×(b) or (b)/(c) depending on what's intended. Technically, you should be able to just go left to right and get the right answer if ((a)×(b))/(c) is what's intended, but it's a good idea to make that clear.

The editor went to talk to the instructional designer, and the designer said that we don't need parentheses—you should be able to do the equation forwards or backwards and still get the same answer.

 :huh:
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on August 05, 2016, 09:59:53 AM
Right, because division is commutative.  >_<
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on August 12, 2016, 12:48:02 PM
"I've looked for an answer for this for years, but never hard enough to find it."

 :sarcasm:
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on August 12, 2016, 01:34:56 PM
:facepalm:
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on August 17, 2016, 06:05:40 PM
Background: The 2017-18 FAFSA will become available as of October 2016, rather than the following January (as was the case in previous years).

Quote
. . . will now have to switch from January to October for the start of the FAFSA and perhaps also for Financial Aid Awareness Month.

So, instead of competing with National Soup Month, National Mentoring Month, National Stalking Awareness Month, Birth Defects Prevention Month, Glaucoma Awareness Month, Cervical Cancer Awareness Month, Data Privacy Month, Oats Month and National Book Month, we'll now have to compete with National Dyslexia Awareness Month, Crime Prevention Month, Vaccine Injury Awareness Month, Child Abuse Awareness Month, Cyber Security Awareness Month, Jazz Awareness Month, Vegetarian Awareness Month, National Bullying Prevention Month, Polish American Heritage Month and Breast Cancer Awareness Month.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on August 18, 2016, 09:49:19 AM
I was unaware that there was so much awareness.  If only there were an Awareness Awareness Month to enlighten me.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on August 18, 2016, 09:59:58 AM
 :D
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on August 18, 2016, 10:33:39 AM
I was unaware that there was so much awareness.  If only there were an Awareness Awareness Month to enlighten me.
Funny you should say that . . .

http://time.com/3449708/breast-cancer-awareness-month-domestic-violence-awareness/
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on August 18, 2016, 10:55:06 AM
That's great.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on August 18, 2016, 09:47:40 PM
My son has a policy of contributing only to causes that address a remedy and to give nothing towards raising awareness.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on September 06, 2016, 03:10:13 PM
From a biology course:

Quote
What a privilege and blessing to study the works of God, rather than the works of man, as in some other disciplines!

Don't hold back—tell us how you really feel about the humanities.  :sarcasm:
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on September 06, 2016, 05:25:34 PM
I understand and agree with seeing studying science as studying God's handiwork.

But still to that sentence I say EWWWWWW.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on October 25, 2016, 01:47:27 PM
I think I've mentioned before that someone at work sends out a weekly email of supposedly inspirational quotes. (And like so many inspirational quotes, many of them are attributed to Anonymous.) This was one from this week's email:

Quote
"There are few of life's problems which cannot be solved with the proper application of a high explosive projectile." - -  US Army

So I should solve all of my work problems by launching a few artillery rounds at our building? Got it.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Brinestone on October 25, 2016, 08:01:53 PM
Hey, it's not the worst idea I've heard yet.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on February 08, 2017, 09:40:31 AM
Quote
Becoming visually sensitive to these elements of design marks the threshold over which we must pass to the inside track of understanding what makes paintings great. Ideally, the “inside track” to deciphering the visual language of painting comes from the actual process of painting.

I kind of get what they're saying—you have to know about elements of design in order to understand what makes paintings great. But wow, what a mess. Becoming visually sensitive marks the threshold rather than describing the process of crossing the threshold? We pass a threshold to the inside track? And the inside track helps us understand paintings better, I guess, but how does an inside track come from the actual process of painting? Shouldn't painting put on the inside track?
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on June 26, 2017, 10:56:10 AM
Quote
“Learning the Healer’s art in Taiwan was easy,” says [Name], “because the people practiced what they believed and exemplified this love through everything they did.”

This is for a piece on nursing students. On the first edit, I lowercased "Healer's" in the quote, but the client stetted me with this comment:

Quote
The Healer of the Healer's art is the Savior so we capitalize it.

Buh . . . wha . . .

(https://media.giphy.com/media/11OO4x7JURZoTC/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on June 26, 2017, 04:39:28 PM
 >_<
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on June 29, 2017, 07:09:06 PM
Quote from: Registrars' listserv
. . . the email has to really clearly demonstrate what they're "signing" for -- meaning we wouldn't take an email that just says "I approve" but would take an email that says "Harry Potter has my approval to register for MAGC 252 in Fall 2017."

I want to take that class! ;)

Quote from: reply from another Registrar
I would never accept an email for Harry Potter to register for anything - Owl Post would be the only acceptable means of delivery.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on June 30, 2017, 02:57:24 AM
 :wub:
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on June 30, 2017, 08:12:35 AM
I'm not even into Harry Potter, and I still lolled.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on July 14, 2017, 09:13:39 AM
"With the Brigham Young University name and reputation attached to it, a degree from BYU-Idaho is now one of the best values in higher education."

I love how they basically just straight-up admit that they're riding on BYU's coattails.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on July 14, 2017, 06:11:38 PM
Weeeeellll, I suspect they might also claim they have an education and environment that are better than their local competition.

But sure, that's the whole POINT of spinoff colleges. I work at one. ;)
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on August 28, 2017, 04:13:51 PM
"In both assemblies, the students sat silently while Living Legends performed its cultural dances. As the show ended, the once-silent audience erupted into enthusiastic applause."

Okay, but isn't this how most performances go? I mean, maybe not every audience is enthusiastic, but listening silently and then applauding at the end is pretty much how it works.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on August 28, 2017, 06:35:10 PM
Not these days. These days the audience is at least as likely to be chattering to each other, playing on their phones, etc. etc. :P
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on September 07, 2017, 10:28:20 AM
Quote
When Church members increase in self-reliance, they “stand independent above all other creatures” (D&C 78:14), learn to rely on God, and
work toward their salvation and eternal life. (emphasis added)

So increasing in self-reliance means learning to rely on God? That seems a little bit . . . contradictory.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on September 07, 2017, 01:42:30 PM
Quote
Service brings a smile to most people’s faces, and [person]’s efforts are no exception. But the smiles he creates are literal and permanent.

That sounds horrifying.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on September 08, 2017, 06:15:11 AM
Quote
But the smiles he creates are literal and permanent.
I, too, have seen Tim Burton's Batman.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Kate Boots on September 08, 2017, 11:30:10 AM
I hope to goodness he is a dentist.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on September 08, 2017, 12:27:41 PM
He is. The piece was on how he does humanitarian dental trips to South and Central America. I just got a laugh (but not a permanent one) from the wording.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on October 26, 2017, 04:10:48 PM
Quote
More than a quarter of BYU students are married, and many are handed a newborn before they are handed a diploma.

I totally get what it's saying, but the image that popped into my head was graduates lining up to receive a baby and then their diploma.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on October 26, 2017, 04:17:06 PM
Yes! That is absolutely the image that sentence creates for me too.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Porter on October 27, 2017, 08:14:48 AM
Mary Cate and I were carrying our new baby around during the graduation ceremony for our BS degrees.

We were a BYU cliche.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on November 06, 2017, 01:57:40 PM
Quote
More than a quarter of BYU students are married, and many are handed a newborn before they are handed a diploma.

I totally get what it's saying, but the image that popped into my head was graduates lining up to receive a baby and then their diploma.

Ugh. I've been overruled on this.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Kate Boots on November 07, 2017, 10:38:29 AM
Ugh is right.  Not only for the almost amusing picture of lining up to get a baby but because being "handed" a baby seems to me to trivialize bearing and parenting a child.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on November 07, 2017, 10:44:47 AM
But it ruins the lead sentence if we don't have it parallel. :sarcasm:

To which I say that maybe it's a crappy lead if it relies on parallelism that produces such a weird mental image. And I hadn't even really thought about how it trivializes having a baby (or at least I hadn't articulated it that way, though it seems closely connected to my issues with it).

Also, I really hate having my concerns trivialized. "Nobody else found it confusing but you" implies that the problem is me, not the sentence. (I'm only slightly paraphrasing here.)
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on November 07, 2017, 12:27:46 PM
Yeah, I've run into that attitude. Very rude, as well as shortsighted.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on December 20, 2017, 06:05:47 PM
Recent conversation on my Registrars listserv about comments on grade rosters:
Quote from: Registrar #1
I have a good one - seriously, this was written by an instructor as a reason for a grade change submitted this week:
"Student missed 8 am final. Said he went coon hunting last night, shot one, ate it, got food poisoning. Can't make this stuff up. He is taking the final as I write this."
The Dean signed it. I simply replied to the Dean, "seriously?".
Quote from: Registrar #2
Maybe they just didn’t cook it right……
Quote from: Registrar #3
Probably forgot to drive long enough to preheat the radiator.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on December 20, 2017, 06:14:16 PM
 ;D
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on January 19, 2018, 11:45:51 AM
From the mission statement of one of my clients:

Quote
As an institution, we seek and follow the counsel and guidance of inspired leaders in harmony with The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, its purposes, and in fulfilling our stated mission.

The nonparallelism is making me twitchy.

And I'm not even sure what it means. Their mission is to do these things in harmony with their mission?
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Kate Boots on January 19, 2018, 12:41:06 PM
Are they saying that they seek and follow inspired leaders *who are* in harmony with...stated mission or that they seek the counsel...*while they themselves are in* harmony...mission?
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on January 19, 2018, 12:51:31 PM
 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Also from this client:

Quote
Strategic imperatives guiding [client] decisions and efforts:
1: Serving and blessing the lives of many more students on our Salt
Lake City campus.
2: Be a hub of educational innovation, educating more deeply and more
powerfully than ever before.
3: Be an integral contributor to the BYU-Pathway Worldwide effort.

Again with the nonparallel constructions.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on February 20, 2018, 12:48:26 PM
Quote
She provided financial sales data and analysis to sales management and worked with sales representatives to forecast sales until she left in 2004.

I think the word sales has now lost all meaning for me.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on February 20, 2018, 01:41:54 PM
Quote
[Name] said his biggest accomplishment is his wonderful marriage to his best friend and their six brilliant, meticulous, and understanding offspring.

Oh dear.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on February 20, 2018, 05:29:48 PM
 :wacko:

(to both)
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Brinestone on February 21, 2018, 03:18:55 PM
Quote
[Software] possesses a high level of redundancy across the organization across different areas.

A high level of redundancy, you say?  <_<
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on February 21, 2018, 03:34:28 PM
 :D
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Nighthawk on February 23, 2018, 04:32:06 PM
(https://blog.codinghorror.com/content/images/uploads/2008/06/6a0120a85dcdae970b01287770508e970c-pi.png)
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on April 11, 2018, 04:12:16 PM
Quote from: one of my Registrar listservs
1. Who is responsible for [specific item] at your institution? The Registrar, the Faculty, or another office?

Registrar.

2. Based on your answer to #1, is there a specific reason this person(s) is charged with [specific item]?

No one else wants to do it.
Yup, sounds about right.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Noemon on June 05, 2018, 01:28:26 PM
Coworker 1, his screen shared: types "the system's requirements"
Coworker 2: "Take out the apostrophy"
Me: "What? No, it's possessive"
Coworker 2: "The system is requirements? That is nonsense!"
Me: "It isn't a contraction. The apostrophy is being used to indicate possession"
Coworker 2: googles, is flabbergasted.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on June 05, 2018, 02:32:16 PM
 :D
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on June 12, 2018, 03:58:41 PM
Quote
Many nursing students will probably agree that their favorite class lecture from [professor's name] is her "cervix cookies" presentation, which includes sugar cookies that contain chocolate candy pieces that represent a 1cm dilation (and the circumference of the treat representing 10cm, or the size of a dilated cervix).
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on June 12, 2018, 04:26:43 PM
 :D
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on June 12, 2018, 05:12:44 PM
And yes, someone already pointed out the "circumference" problem.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on June 12, 2018, 09:20:47 PM
We didn't get cookies  when I went to nursing school.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on June 12, 2018, 09:29:06 PM
Did you get some other sort of cervix-shaped treat instead?
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on June 13, 2018, 03:52:41 AM
 There was a womb knit out of wool wth a drawstring cervix.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on June 13, 2018, 08:22:24 AM
That's actually kind of cool.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Ela on June 13, 2018, 09:09:04 AM
There are some very cool similar types of products for teaching health professionals about the mechanics of childbirth. In fact, there's a whole catalog (Childbirth Graphics) of teaching materials used by those working in maternal child health. Including a knitted womb. They're very pricey, though. I've seen patterns for homemade versions that have to be cheaper to make.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on June 14, 2018, 03:15:45 PM
The nursing college here has robotic mannikins that can simulate childbirth. I really want to know how those work.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on June 15, 2018, 03:43:05 AM
 We had a VHS tape with heart sounds that we could put in the VCR and gather around the big CRT TV set with our stethoscopes on it to practice listening.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Kate Boots on June 15, 2018, 08:21:43 AM
When discussing the possibility of surveying people who are using our new(ish) faculty application system,a very diplomatic colleague remarked that "several faculty members have proactively reached out to offer feedback".  It was the most polite euphemism for "called to b***h" that I had every encountered.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on June 15, 2018, 09:29:04 AM
 :D

I will definitely have to recall that phrase for future use.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Kate Boots on June 15, 2018, 10:19:53 AM
I asked him if he had it copyrighted or if I could steal it.  ;)
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Ela on June 15, 2018, 11:54:49 AM
The nursing college here has robotic mannikins that can simulate childbirth. I really want to know how those work.

My hospital has something like that. They use it for annual competencies (practicum for dealing with emergency situations) for the maternity stuff. It's really kind of freaky. She talks and blinks her eyes and all. In addition to simulating actually emergent conditions that can happen perinatally.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on June 22, 2018, 02:24:23 PM
"Cleaning as you go reduces the work after the meal is done."

🤔🤔🤔
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on June 22, 2018, 02:47:57 PM
That makes perfect sense to me.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on June 22, 2018, 03:06:14 PM
Conversely, saving it all for the end reduces the work you have to do as you go.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on June 22, 2018, 03:54:02 PM
That also makes perfect sense to me.

Having a maid reduces all the work you have to do.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on June 22, 2018, 04:14:26 PM
Conversely, saving it all for the end reduces the work you have to do as you go.
True. However, if the source is one of those "how to make housework less onerous" books or the like, there are valid psychological reasons that doing work in small amounts, so you never have one huge pile of dishes to deal with, can seem less daunting.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on June 22, 2018, 05:14:55 PM
Oh, I know. I was just amused by the tautology of it.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on June 24, 2018, 03:44:07 PM
Ah. Fair enough.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Noemon on July 05, 2018, 06:45:57 PM
The nursing college here has robotic mannikins that can simulate childbirth. I really want to know how those work.

My hospital has something like that. They use it for annual competencies (practicum for dealing with emergency situations) for the maternity stuff. It's really kind of freaky. She talks and blinks her eyes and all. In addition to simulating actually emergent conditions that can happen perinatally.
Wow, that's interesting. I'd love to see that thing in action.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Ela on July 05, 2018, 07:39:51 PM
It's pretty interesting.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on July 13, 2018, 10:22:54 AM
Quote
Organizational learning is the procedure utilized by an organization to achieve predetermined outcomes. Focusing on the factors that play into organizational learning can help determine parts of the procedure that are less effective and need to be changed. At a hospital unit level, organization learning is significant because the overall performance of the hospital is linked to the performance of individuals units.

I'm not sure what this actually says because I fell asleep in the middle of the first sentence.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on July 13, 2018, 10:34:42 AM
I think you could just about replace every noun with "thing" and it would make as much sense.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on July 13, 2018, 10:56:56 AM
Let's try and see!
Quote
Thing is the thing utilized by a[n] thing to achieve predetermined things. Focusing on the things that play into thing can help determine things of the thing that are less effective and need to be changed. At a thing level, thing is significant because the overall thing of the thing is linked to the thing of individual things.

I think this is better, actually.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on July 13, 2018, 11:19:51 AM
 ;D
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on July 13, 2018, 11:49:56 AM
Aaaaand it turns out this whole article isn't even accurate. It's about a study on organizational learning in hospitals, but the study was actually about organizational learning in colleges of nursing. I'm sending it back to the client and asking what they want me to do with it.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on July 13, 2018, 06:03:07 PM
Hospital, school, it's all the same. Right? :P
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on July 13, 2018, 08:57:54 PM
Sure! Even though the abstract of the paper this piece is talking about specifically said "thing has already been studied in hospitals, but not in schools."
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on July 14, 2018, 09:29:58 PM
Like they actually read the abstract. Psssh.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on July 26, 2018, 01:00:02 PM
Quote
For their first date, the couple went on a hayride. They were engaged three weeks later.

I think this is one of the most Mormon couple of sentences I've ever read.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on July 26, 2018, 02:57:37 PM
 :D
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: pooka on August 16, 2018, 10:58:47 AM
When you copy and paste an all caps sentence into a regular document and it says:
"tayloR, Rn, MPa diReCtoR of nuRsing infoRMatiCs"
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on September 13, 2018, 02:34:21 PM
Quote
Pro Bono Boot Camps will facilitate service in areas such as domestic violence, housing discrimination, debt collection, and elder abuse.

There's a really unfortunate potential misreading there.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on September 13, 2018, 05:42:52 PM
Um, yeah.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on November 15, 2018, 04:17:52 PM
"Donating a kidney is just one example of the selfless service [she] renders on a daily basis."

She must have a lot of spare kidneys.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on November 15, 2018, 06:22:05 PM
 ;D
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on March 01, 2019, 02:52:26 PM
Have you ever had a client or coworker make so many baffling typos that you have literally no idea what they're trying to say? I just got this comment in our project management system:

Quote
Jonathon, Steve has asked that we temivecthe cooyvthat days exceotvfor obecso  who went into hiding...we can end after “childten.”
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on March 01, 2019, 04:03:06 PM
I eventually figured it out. It's supposed to say "Remove the copy that says except for one sone who went into hiding...we can end after 'children.'"
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on March 02, 2019, 07:03:47 PM
Impressive decoding.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Ela on March 05, 2019, 08:27:01 AM
Have you ever had a client or coworker make so many baffling typos that you have literally no idea what they're trying to say? I just got this comment in our project management system:

Quote
Jonathon, Steve has asked that we temivecthe cooyvthat days exceotvfor obecso  who went into hiding...we can end after “childten.”

Yes, I have.

The number of typos in that comment is impressive, however.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on March 05, 2019, 09:25:33 AM
This person makes a lot of typos on a regular basis, but this was an order of magnitude worse than anything I'd seen before.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Ela on March 05, 2019, 11:54:02 AM
I believe it!  :D
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on April 08, 2019, 10:24:36 AM
One of my coworkers called an apple fritter a baklava because she was trying to be fancy, I guess. Apparently she didn't actually know what a baklava is and just thought it was a synonym for pastry or something.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on April 08, 2019, 01:40:06 PM
It could have been worse. She could have been slightly more confused and called it a balaclava.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on April 08, 2019, 02:09:07 PM
True.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on April 09, 2019, 04:51:48 AM
Balalaika.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on May 30, 2019, 09:09:42 AM
Today in the annals of Unintentionally Funny Sentences That I've Edited:

Quote
Mr. Stevenson is the author of Letters from an American Husband and Father: Championing Virtue as the Most Durable Empire, a compilation of his letters to the editor and essays written between 1998 and 2012.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on June 12, 2019, 04:07:01 PM
Quote
The purpose of this document is to describe the unifying set of statements that provide an umbrella for the statements and activities of university administrative departments.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on June 12, 2019, 04:21:42 PM
Including the Department of Redundancy Department?
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on June 12, 2019, 07:33:50 PM
Worse—human resources.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on June 13, 2019, 12:43:08 AM
 :angst:
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on January 14, 2020, 03:13:32 PM
From some employee bios I'm editing:

Quote
Something unusual about me is that I love to tie flies and catch fish with them!

Wow, how unusual! I bet there aren't that many people out there that share this strange and unheard-of hobby!
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Tante Shvester on January 15, 2020, 09:39:23 AM
I love to tie spiders and catch flies with them.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on January 16, 2020, 10:03:05 AM
Sometimes when I see comments from the client to the designer, it really makes me glad I'm not a designer.

"Logo ... looks kind of out of place ... is there a way to make it look like it belongs?"
"We talked about adding the [name] logo in a subtle, more designer way."
"Can you drop this into an amazingly inspiring layout and send the pdf to me ... today?"
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Brinestone on January 16, 2020, 12:50:43 PM
*backs away slowly*
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on January 17, 2020, 12:17:21 AM
Yeah, designers are telepathic AND magical, donchaknow?
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on January 17, 2020, 11:16:08 AM
*nods*
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Ela on January 20, 2020, 05:51:58 AM
Pet peeves of graphic designers.


Also, this is unusual?  :huh:
What else would you tie flies for if not to catch fish?
From some employee bios I'm editing:

Quote
Something unusual about me is that I love to tie flies and catch fish with them!

Wow, how unusual! I bet there aren't that many people out there that share this strange and unheard-of hobby!
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on January 30, 2020, 04:18:30 PM
Quote
“I’m not very exciting,” claims [professor]. “I’m just kind of a normal person that comes in and gets her work done.” But anyone that knows about her dedication, her compassion, and her love of service finds the opposite to be true.

So she's an exciting but abnormal person who doesn't come in and doesn't get her work done?
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on January 30, 2020, 06:20:03 PM
*snicker*
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on February 07, 2020, 11:56:33 AM
One of my clients likes to write really complex sentences that don't actually make much sense or at least don't really say that much:

Quote
By acting upon the promptings and inspiration that the gospel brings to those who trust in the Lord, your generous gift demonstrates your love for God and His children.

The gift acted upon the promptings and inspiration? Why do we need to separate out promptings and inspiration? Why do we need to specify that these promptings and inspiration come to those who trust in the Lord? Is it really accurate to say that the gospel brings the promptings and inspiration, or does the Lord or the Spirit bring those things?

Quote
Thank you for creating the life-affirming hope that comes to those who now have the ability to become self-reliant in spiritual and temporal matters.

What does it mean for this hope to be life-affirming? Why do we have to say that the donor created the hope and that the hope then came to those people? Why can't we just say that the donor gave them hope? But if we just say that the donor gave them hope by helping them become self-reliant, which is the most direct way to say it, then it kind of undercuts the message that these people are self-reliant, because they relied on someone else to become self-reliant. (The way the LDS Church talks about self-reliance is probably a whole other can of worms.)
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Dobie on February 08, 2020, 01:36:35 PM
One of my clients likes to write really complex sentences that don't actually make much sense or at least don't really say that much:

Quote
Is it really accurate to say that the gospel brings the promptings and inspiration, or does the Lord or the Spirit bring those things?
Your opinion on the accuracy of a statement really has nothing to do with whether the statement makes sense or "says much".

Quote
Quote
Thank you for creating the life-affirming hope that comes to those who now have the ability to become self-reliant in spiritual and temporal matters.

What does it mean for this hope to be life-affirming? Why do we have to say that the donor created the hope and that the hope then came to those people? Why can't we just say that the donor gave them hope? But if we just say that the donor gave them hope by helping them become self-reliant, which is the most direct way to say it, then it kind of undercuts the message that these people are self-reliant, because they relied on someone else to become self-reliant.

"These people are self-reliant," is present tense; it means they are self-reliant now.
"They relied on someone else..." is past tense; at some previous time they presumably were not self-reliant.
I don't see the contradiction.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on February 10, 2020, 10:32:31 AM
I think I've asked you this before, but what do you get out of posting here, Dobie? Do you enjoy being just enough of a troll to be annoying but not enough of one to get banned?
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on April 07, 2020, 02:25:23 PM
A proofreading query from one of my coworkers:

Quote
At the very bottom there is a 4/20. What does this indicate? If it's a date, can we change it to 4/19 or 4/21 instead?

Yes, it is a date, and no, we can't change it to 4/19 or 4/21, unless you have a time machine so we can go back and publish it in April of last year or you want to hold off publishing it until April of next year.

I appreciate the vigilance in avoiding possible drug references, but sometimes a 4/20 is just a 4/20.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on April 07, 2020, 04:26:20 PM
 :D
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Ela on April 08, 2020, 07:16:39 AM
4/20 is a drug reference?  ???
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on April 08, 2020, 08:06:32 AM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/420_(cannabis_culture)
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on May 15, 2020, 12:24:18 PM
Quote
When we received the news for your new assignment, we all chanted, “Perfect, perfect, perfect.”

Am I the only one who finds this super creepy?
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Brinestone on May 15, 2020, 05:11:40 PM
Nope.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on May 17, 2020, 10:02:26 PM
I'm curious about the context, but it does strike a creepy vibe to me too.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on May 18, 2020, 09:24:48 AM
It's from a letter thanking someone for his service in his current role after hearing news that he will be leaving that role to serve as a mission president.

It is less creepy in context, but the idea of a a couple literally chanting "perfect" over and over is still super creepy to me.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on May 18, 2020, 11:08:27 AM
Yeah, kind of Stepford-wifey.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on June 11, 2020, 01:02:54 PM
Quote
We’re out in different clothes. We’re at different levels of socioeconomic status. But you put all these people in a hospital gown, and we are all the same. And I think that’s how the Savior sees us.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on June 11, 2020, 09:29:32 PM
Ok, now I have an image of rows and rows of people standing in hospital gowns, bathed in a heavenly light.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Brinestone on June 12, 2020, 05:35:05 AM
And their butts hanging out.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on June 14, 2020, 07:32:18 PM
Well, they do now.  >_<
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Brinestone on June 15, 2020, 05:15:18 AM
 :innocent:
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on June 23, 2020, 03:17:56 PM
Quote
Brigham Young University students are known for the light and positivity they bring to those with whom they interact. This is unquestionably true for student performers, who represent the university as living examples of its mission “to assist individuals in their quest for perfection and eternal life.”

Barf.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on June 23, 2020, 11:17:53 PM
All else aside, that's quite a responsibility to lay on their shoulders. Probably not what they signed up for.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on April 15, 2021, 09:41:43 PM
Quote from: one of my listservs
Short answer: it isn’t possible
Long answer: it is not possible
:D
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on April 16, 2021, 08:40:52 AM
 :D
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on August 03, 2021, 06:36:46 PM
Quote
When two scholars contribute equally to a paper, whose name gets listed first? Two Stanford scientists devised an unconventional solution to that problem for their newest work, which was published last month in Frontiers in Immunology.

Yunhao Bai and Bokai Zhu, who shared first-authorship duties, explained their methodology in the author-contributions section of their paper: “The co-first authorship order was determined via the best of three rounds in Super Smash Bros.”
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on August 04, 2021, 09:50:24 AM
I saw that on Facebook yesterday. :D

(I would prefer Mario Kart 8 myself.)
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on August 04, 2021, 11:48:05 AM
Hey, as long as your co-author agrees! ;)
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on September 30, 2022, 02:30:05 PM
Quote
All sessions are pre-recorded and aired live during event week

Um. Wellll, if it's like the last couple years, there will be live people responding in the Q&A (text-only) sidebar. But "pre-recorded" and "live" are usually considered mutually exclusive  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: Jonathon on September 30, 2022, 03:59:48 PM
Maybe they're using some new definition of "live" that means "not live".
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on September 30, 2022, 06:04:32 PM
Government agencies sometimes do redefine words like that.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on September 21, 2023, 07:46:05 PM
In a recent listserv discussion about sending term-start emails, there was this gem (as a fantasy, not an actual suggestion):

Quote
Dear Faculty,
The year is about to start. Get your @#!$%! together, read your email and finish your grading on time.
Have a good year.
Title: Re: Quotes from work
Post by: rivka on February 28, 2025, 01:06:32 PM
Quote from a financial-aid-related podcast I am listening to: "Well, when the zombie apocalypse finally does come, just sign me up for hiding in a cave with a bunch of financial aid administrators!" :D